Thiel Owners

pops

 

How do you like the P.A.D. / StraightWire combination in your system?

We have a few P.A.D. fans and owners here on the Panel.

 

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

 

I am looking forward in reading more about the Maestro II vs. Octave II cabling options.

 

Happy Listening!

pops

 

Yes! I absolutey feel the same way about Cables/Cords.

 

Happy Listening!

pops - Octave sits at the top of level 2. I got it on Steve's recommendation that it contains the relevant technologies for "high performance" without more expensive options, which he says serve particular user preferences. My assessment of the Octave II is that they are pretty good. Certainly better than the Benchmark (Canare) or the  OCOS (coax), but much less refined and precice than the Morrow. I do not have extensive experience nor the time and budget to make extensive comparisons. That said, I am not recommending the Octave II, but find it very interesting that you landed on the Maestro II in comparison with some pricier offerings.

@jafant you are so right!  I suspect you feel the same way about cables as I do!

pops - that’s one long list of cables!

Can you tell me how SW Maestro II sits in SWs line compared to the Octave II? I don’t see the Maestro on their line-up. Also, do you have thoughts to share regarding interconnects?

Thanks, Tom

Sure Tom - Maestro has been discontinued for several years now. The Maestro variant was in level 4, their best, and in the same level as Virtuoso and Crescendo.

I never tried the Maestro IC’s. I am not sure when Octave was introduced or exactly where it sits in the hierachy.

@Theiliste - thank you, it has been an interesting journey.

Jerry

@pops Many thanks for your cable feedback very impressive!

pops - that's one long list of cables!

Can you tell me how SW Maestro II sits in SWs line compared to the Octave II? I don't see the Maestro on their line-up. Also, do you have thoughts to share regarding interconnects?

Thanks, Tom

Citing: corrected.

tomthiel

 

Thank You for ciitng your fast approaching Cable shoot-out. Very much looking forward in reading about your impressions and thoughts! Have Fun.

 

Happy Listening!

pops

 

Now, that is what I am talking about! Nice list of Cables my Audiophile friend.

So many Cables/Cords, so little time...

 

Happy Listening!

vair68robert

 

Good to see you here today. Cardas posts are quite popular in our Hobby.

 

Happy Listening!

@thieliste 

I replaced the speaker posts on my 2.7's with Cardas CCGR posts ,

a bit of work drilling the holes , the originals use a rectangular hole .

 

I have tried many speaker cables with both my 3.6 and CS6 and always seem to come back to Straightwire Maestro II.  I do not believe you need a cost no object cable for Thiels unless you have similar equipment. 

I have tried several $$ speaker  cables including:

 Alpha Core Goertz M2 and M3 - nice balance overal, M2 better - RC links a hassle 

Kimber 3035 - dull sounding, good bass however, silver/copper mix not ideal   

8TC - solid, neutral, puts out what is put in, will always have a pair on hand

StraightwireVirtuoso - disappointing since the Maestro is so good, grainy,

Tara Labs The One - solid core not for me or Thiels IMO 

MIT Oracle V4 - aggressive top end, great bass

Magnum M2 - good but moved up the line to V4

750 SG - a classic in my HT system.  Warm full bodied holographic.  slight bloat.

Purist Audio Proteus - gave up too soon on these.  Used them with another speaker

Nirvana SL - nice, but lost in a cable co shootout with SW Maestro II

AP oval 9...just to name a few.  I have what is called a cable fettish!

After all that SW Maestro II is in my system today.   I have PAD Venustas IC's upstream.  I believe you can get more out of experimentation with interconnects than speaker cables with Thiels.  

Of course this is my perspective in my system YMMV.  Only way to know is to try IMHO.

 

Tom thanks very much for your input on cabling very interesting indeed.

Do you have any idea if the 3.7s binding posts were made of 100% copper or brass when they were still in production ?

A friend of mine who came over this weekend for a listen told me if they were made of brass it would be worth upgrading them for Mundorf 100% copper.

unsound - thanks for the memory jog. I just added a pair of Goertz AlphaCore interconnects to my upcoming shoot-out.

 

To augment unsound’s list:

Kimber was Thiel’s first OMG moment in the late 70s, and we remained fans and beta testers of each others’ products.

Straightwire founded their business on Thiel’s discovery of ITT’s aerospace communications wire which was ground-breaking in the late 70s. Straightwire continued to provide our internal wire for all US-made products. Steve says that their Octave II, which I have, contains all their relevant technologies including their compressed core which pressure fuses slow-drawn strands into a single conductor. Higher-priced models climb the diminishing returns slope with mostly preferential sonic flavors.

OCOS came to us via Dynaudio whose tweeter we used in the CS2 & 3 - 3.5. It is a coaxial cable which tolerates long runs very well. Today I use that cable (in double runs) in live venues, but it does not possess the finesse of the Straightwire or better wires. I haven’t found anyone to re-terminate the proprietary ends.

I remember reading a 3.7 review (Stereophile or Absolute Sound) that complained about a harsh top end. Thiel intimated that Jim had used Goertz in its development - they switched - and the problem vanished. I’ve not heard Goertz, but its propagation specs are stellar.

My own favorite to date is Morrow which incorporates a flat geometry, executed with individually insulated small gauge wires.

Next week I’ll be directly comparing 1 meter interconnects from VoVox Sonorus, Morrow, and my own candidate for internal wiring. I’ll report my results here.

 

 

 

thieliste

 

Thank you for the follow up. Very nice YouTube clip as above. Looking forward in your review of the Tell-Q.

 

Happy Listening!

Tellurium Q dealer is going to send me Statement speaker cables to demo in my system.

100% copper this should be very good.

Keep you guys posted.

 

Kimber Select 3035 ?

@thieliste,

Jim Thiel used Goertz Alpha-Core when developing the CS 3.7's

Thiel Audio used to also reccomend;

Straightwire (Maestros)

OCOS

Kimber

As there is some design overlap, also consider: Wireworld 

thieliste

 

I am looking forward in reading about the Audience vs Tellurium Q.

Audience is a sonic match for Thiel loudspeakers.

 

Happy Listening!

What do you 3.7 owners use in terms of speaker cabling and interconnects ?

I have to start looking for other cables as i'm not satisfied with my Gryphon cabling, they are way too clear for the 3.7s and therefore i find the treble agressive.

I will ask 2 dealers to lend my one set of Audience Front Row and Tellurium Q Statement both of them 100% copper.

If you guys have any suggesttions please chime in.

Wire sucks in various ways. Keep it all short. @tomthiel 

For sure!

Happy Friday! All

I'm referring to John Siau's explanation of the effects of cable length on low-frequency tightness. Shorter cables = tighter bass.

Previously I had recommended long interconnects / short speaker cables. I have changed that opinion. Long interconnects introduce their own problems. Wire sucks in various ways. Keep it all short.

But cutting output cables to half length gets that back.

Tom, what do you mean by this? I can't exactly cut my speaker cables in half for my Benchmark stack.

Veteran's Day - All

SALUTE!

tomthiel

Outstanding! My pleasure to be of service.

 

Happy Listening!

JAFANT - Thanks for the Great Falls VA lead. It's looking like a winner.

jazzman7 - I perused the CODA stuff. Wow. I'd love to hear their most recent iterations.

I queried John at Benchmark about more power, which he is not planning to do. He claims that THIS amp design does not increase distortion when bridged to mono - the only down-side being half the damping factor. But cutting output cables to half length gets that back.

Thiel used and recommended Bryston all along. I found it somewhat less sonically sophisticated than some contenders. People say that their Cubed series takes their performance to the next level.

I've grown to love the Benchmark stack, since my interest is in "just the facts" rather than my subjective experience. For my alternate reference, Bill Thalmann at Music Technology (thanks to JA) is souping up my Class´e DR6 and pair of DR9s. I realize there are more modern rigs that probably get closer to the truth, but I know and have been using this stuff since the 80s, so it serves me well. I bet his upgrades will carry the strengths of the DR design while adding some refinement via better caps and a few secret tricks. I'll report when that happens.

Meanwhile, send some CODA my way so I can tell you what I think.

 

 

@tomthiel
the Benchmark gear, both the AHB2 together with their LA4 preamp were given serious consideration.
Loved its diminutive size and weight. It was a semi finalist based on it’s form factor alone. It is the one notable class AB amp that I am aware of that like my 3Bst I could stash away under my antique ice chest.
(You can see pictures of my system and living room here: https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8156 )
But, given that I didn’t want to go the monoblock route, one AHB2 in stereo rated at 100 watts into 8 and 190 into 4 on paper is actually less than my 3Bst
at 125 watts into 8 and 200 into 4. Very much wish that Benchmark had a more powerful amp in their lineup (or that Bryston would shrink their 4B3 down to a size that I could handle). Sure that a single AHB2 would be an improvement,
just not as big a step up as I desire. My happy place is with spl peaking at around 80 db from my listening position sitting ~12 feet away from my speakers.
I have no problem at all getting there with my current Bryston kit (with BP20 volume knob at around 9 o’clock). Just desire something with more cojones that could provide the grip, control, and ease that only a more powerful amp would
be likely to provide. Taken together, an AHB2 / LA4 combo comes in at a price that is comparable to the deal that I got on the CODA CSiB,
and the CSiB I believe has the juice to get me to where I’m looking to go. Liked that the CSiB continues to double down as you halve the impedance. And coming from owning Bryston kit, appreciated the 10 year warranty, and thought the piece was particularly good value for the money.  

 

unsound - I have some original drivers for my own speakers. Haven't yet worked up the replacement midrange and tweeter, which will go in the Renaissance 03, 03a, CS3 and CS3.5. The woofers are tanks and rebuildable by Rob.

 

TT

2nd Note;

 

Another +vote for HiFi Shark site. Very helpful information.

 

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

 

Check out the U.S. AudioMart listing in Great Falls VA for a pair of 3.5 loudspeakers. Hope this is helpful to Bill Thalmann.

 

Happy Listening!

yyzsantabarbara

 

Thank You for the Cable follow up. I really must follow up with Audience myself.

 

Happy Listening!

tomthiel

 

I will keep my eyes posted for a pair of 3.5 loudspeakers.

 

Happy Listening!

@tomthiel, Do you have 3.5 replacement drivers? That would be excellent news! One of the pairs just previously posted for sale, had after market mid-ranges

FYI: PM sent

unsound - my present purposes are to get a pair in Bill's shop. I can send him drivers if necessary, but shipping cabinets is cost-prohibitive.

 

^Besides locale, finding ones with genuine OEM drivers is paramount.

Wisconsin and Denver. Looking for driving distance from central Virginia. All leads welcome.

 

All - I am searching for a pair of Thiel CS3.5s for Bill Thalmann of Music Technology to use for listening to equalizer upgrades. His shop is located in Springfield, east-central Virginia. Prefer working condition, any physical condition. Borrow, rent, buy, or upgrade as trade. Any leads much appreciated.

 

Tom

Since my CODA and Benchmark are pro gear and support the AES48 XLR standard I use the low cost Benchmark XLR between each preamp and amp. This is 15 foot XLR cables.

On the sources-to-preamp for each of my 2 systems I spoke about above, I use XLR and RCA Audience AU 24 SE and also WyWire Silver XLR and WyWire Blue XLR. The WyWire is also some great cables and they have 40% off for their anniversary sale. I discovered them when I previously had a Meze Empy headphone.

My amp to speakers use Benchmark speaker wire with SpeakON termination on the all Benchmark system.

On the CODA system (Thiel CS3.7) I have Audience FrontRow with SpeakON connection. I had the CODA #8 customized for SpeakON termination..

I also have incorporated my RAAL SR1a headphones into the CODA system, The 07x has dual XLR outputs so I use CODA 07x preamp | Parasound A21+ amp | Audience Conductor SE speaker cable | RAAL SR1a. I will upgrade these speaker cables sometime in the distant future. They are good value cables.

The Audience AU24 SE XLR and RCA came about from the upgrade and chopping up of a 12 foot Audience AU24 XLR I had long time ago. I think it was much cheaper to get the AU24 SE this way.

Speaker cables for me is where I put most of my cable money into.

yyzsantabarbara
Thank You for sharing your Benchmark/CODA experience.  Which brand(s) of Cabling did you settle into System?
Happy Listening!

Benchmark AND CODA together is a beautiful pairing, in any combination. I have an all Benchmark system and also a CODA system (preamp + amp). At one time I was mixing the gear and every combo of amps and preamps from CODA and Benchmark sounded so good together. I no longer mix the 2 together because of the need to incorporate my RAAL SR1a headphones. 

I mixed and matched the following with terrific results.
- CODA 07x preamp
- Benchmark LA4 preamp (sold my HPA4)
- CODA #8 amp 
- Benchmark AHB2 mono amps

Benchmark VS CODA is a simple one for me. The Benchmark is a bit clearer, detailed, and quieter. The CODA is a bit warmer, more powerful, and bit more relaxing with a bit less detail. Now I heard the CODA #16 amp recently (with CODA 07x preamp) and wow, maybe the best amp I have heard.

jazzman7 - I'm eager to hear your considerations, especially your critique / assessment of the Benchmark vs CODA.

jazzman7
Outstanding!  As a fellow Integrated amp owner, I can hardly await for your impressions and thoughts on the new CODA CSiB V1 integrated amp.Being in this hobby for 35 years (and counting) I never thought that I could be Aurally satisfied with an integrated amp. These Products have  grown and matured in the last 10 years, IMO.
Happy Listening!

Wish to thank all the folks on this forum who have assisted me in my long search for a new amp to pair with my CS 2.4s.  Special shout outs to jafant, jimob, tomthiel and yyzsantabarbara.

After much deliberation, made my choice for a new amp, and put in an order for a new Coda CSiB V1 integrated amp (150 watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4, with first 18 watts in class A).  This will be replacing my venerable Bryston 3BST and BP20 combo. Something of a guilty pleasure (but one in which I have my wife's blessing) and easily the most expensive purchase made in the many decades I've been involved in this wonderful hobby. 

Now comes the hard part ... waiting for delivery, which due to part shortages/supply chain issues most likely won't be before the middle of December and could be longer.