Thiel Owners
I'm planning to replace the 7bst with a higher quality amp of up to 30 watt, class A, tubes or SS. What would you recommend. Been looking at pass labs and luxman.I have a pair of Cary Six Pac Monoblocks rated at 50W in triode mode, but they just cannot drive the CS2.4 effectively. They dynamic is clearly lacking and the music just does not have any life. If you are looking for tubes, I think you really need some really high power tubes. |
Jafant I believe I got caught up with the belief that I needed a bigger amp with more current. Having had more time to compare and measure, I realize that the Bryston 7bst in serial setting only gives me 4 or 5 extra dB compared to my 3bst with no difference in sound quality. As I never play anything louder than 90 dB, this 125 watt amp has no problem meeting the current demand with lots of headroom. I used a watt meter, and on standby it indicated that I use about 65 Watt and playing at 80dB, it registered 135 watt, more or less. The amp is rated at Max 675 watt. I'm planning to replace the 7bst with a higher quality amp of up to 30 watt, class A, tubes or SS. What would you recommend. Been looking at pass labs and luxman. |
Edit: lol, Tom Thiel replied while I was typing all this @samzx12 Tom Thiel is hoping to eventually address the 2.7 but it is the very newest design and he has it as lower priority after older models such as 2.4 and 3.6. If you read thru this thread you can see his intentions. The sandcast wirewound resistors are replaced with Mills MRA-12. I did this in May, a very worthwhile and cost effective upgrade. Most importantly, it mitigated a glassy quality in the midrange and with added ease of presentation. But I also heard some improvements in microdynamics, “fullness” of sound, soundstaging, and, maybe, a bit more bass impact. I highly recommend this to all Thiel owners. Tom has decided on Clarity CSAs for most caps. Clarity CMR might be a possibility for cost-no-object CS7.2 and 3.7 when/if he addresses them. @holco used Janzen to good result in his 2.4s (check his comments in this thread or the one regarding CS2.4 upgrades). I currently have CSA in one channel, bypassed with 1% Multicap RTX. I also replaced all of my coils which were OEM from FST-China. These were poorly wound. New coils are ERSE or Janzen, including a couple of foil types, and are clearly of higher quality construction. I haven’t done any serious comparisons yet as things are still burning in (just did this Sunday). That said, my initial impression is improved resolution and microdynamics. For example, I’ve been startled a couple of times at the clarity and focus of vocal inflections from background singers. My goal was to have a near-SOTA speaker from the midbass up, for a fraction the cost of new. I think I have a good chance of getting that. |
Sam - my cap of choice is ClarityCap CSA with potential CMR bypasses. My resistor choice is Mills MRA-12 which is nearly best of form for reasonable cost. Our work is still in process. Main benefits from upgrade include higher resolution, micro-dynamics and transparancy, which are already Thiel's strengths. I have not yet addressed the 2.7, so have no firm advice except that replacing all the sandcast resistors with MRAs will increase delicacy and refinement. |
vair68robert Tom and Beetle have been working diligently this year on the whole upgraded XO project that will no doubt benefit many of the owners here. I would be interested in learning more about your Amplifier upgrading project. Always great to have another DIY contributor here. I believe that makes 5 of you guys who can mod electronics and speakers. Happy Holidays to You. |
Thank You T.T. But I was doing this for shits and giggles , before the conversations turned to upgrading / rebuilding crossovers there was a lot of talk about sitting height and the value of time coherence as well as a lot of conversation about speaker toe-in , spikes or no spikes and placement . I would like to thank you for stating that the 2.7s would benefit from upgrading components on the crossovers , my project for 2020 since my 2019 project will be upgrading components in my amplifier , capacitors can be expensive . H.H to All Rob |
Jafant......just so there's no doubt, it is personal as I knew Bobby, spoke with him numerous times and owned his speakers. However, what you said shouldn't be said about anyone. ...And you have the audacity to go around here telling everyone "Happy Listening" and "Merry Christmas"....ya, a real christian kinda fellow. Just want people here to know who they're dealing with. Obviously, they can make up their own minds.... |
here are his “rules of engagement”: They are just that...his rules. Don’t seem to apply to him however. I just read this a couple of days ago on AA. brayeagle...how is this for “self-appointed righteous”? This is the type of person ( OP ) leading this thread. Follow him if you want, sheep have to be lead by someone... You’re entitled to you opinion regarding my post, but I’m no troll. Been here on Audiogon as long as most any of you have if not longer. Just that I don’t live on here 24/7 , no 10,000+ posts for me. I do kinda have a life, ya know. IMO, this is a comment by real “trash”.... To make a comment like this regarding the late Bobby Palkovich tells me that you are a self-appointed judge regarding morality. No peace to a man that died, huh? You know all about what he was going through do you? You decide who is to receive peace or not? IMO, this is about as low as one can get. Karma’s a hell of a thing.....now go whine to the moderators and have my post deleted. You saw it, got called out for your lowlife comment.....and that was my intention. Posted by fantja (A) on August 27, 2015 at 10:59:18 In Reply to: RIP Bobby Palkovich (Merlin Music) posted by DKL on August 26, 2015 at 07:13:11: Peace to the family only, as we must never celebrate someone, whom chooses to take his own life |
vair68robert Nothing missed, simply taking out the trash. Thank You for sharing your point of view on ear height and convergence. A few factors to consider is one's personal height and the floor clearance from furniture- standard vs. custom/over sized. Hoe you are well and ready for the Christmas, New Year festivities. Happy Listening! |
Rob - if boredom continues, find a pink noise source - equal energy per octave - and experiment with ear height at 8' to 10' from one speaker. Find the height where it just sounds right and deteriorates if you move up or down. If your listening ear height is different, you can brush up on your trig and compensate the spikes. Have fun and let us know how it goes. |
Wow , I must have missed something censorship ! trolls ! One of the best things about this tread is the intelligence of the conversations and advise ( not like power cords or outlet treads ). I remembered a post about 40 pages ago where the conversation was about sitting / ear height , at the same time there has been some talk about the importance of convergence . Being newly retired and having a boring day I thought I'd try a little experiment , my 2.7 speakers have the 2.4SE spikes so they can penetrate the carpet . I stared with putting floor disc/savers under the rear spikes raising the rear about 1/2 inch , the sound was like a line from speaker to speaker, no height or depth and thin on bass. Removing the discs and raising the rear spikes about 1/4 inch the sound was now like an oval and still thin on bass , Next at 1/8 inch still an oval with a little more height and depth but like an oval the outside was thin , bass was still on the light side . With the spikes screwed into the speakers as tight as they could go the soundstage now was fully extending to the outside of the speakers , the height and depth from floor to ceiling and from front wall to the middle of the speakers . Point being even an 1/8th of an inch can make a large difference in the listening experience , plus I could do all of this for free , not like the tube rolling I've been doing with my phono pre-amp . Happy Holidays to All and to All a Good Saturday Rob |
| Post removed |
unsound Have to gently disagree in part. That poster's message was , IMO, just plainly nasty - - as if a troll had written it, looking to start a fight. jafant does contribute, but in sentences rather than long and detailed paragraphs. I happen to moderate a closed mailing list for over 400 of my college classmates. I'll guarantee you, if a message with similar tone had shown up, I'd have yanked it. Civil discourse has little use for the self-appointed righteous . Just my ancient two cents. YMMV |
Was someone's feelings hurt? It seems as though more posts have been deleted. If that's the way this thread is going to go, I'm not sure I can continue here with that type of censorship. We have already lost valuable contributors here for the same reason. I don't really want to split this up , but perhaps we might need to move this dialogue (!) to another thread where the discourse has greater freedom? |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
So, I have the new to me CS5's set up (sort of) in my listening room. Still need to be positioned properly, but I've got to move some gear to make room:). Regardless, they already sound fantastic. I am already feeling better about the speakers I'll likely be selling to make room. There is one issue though. The top woofer (mass loaded) on one of the speakers makes a flapping (or maybe rubbing) sound at volume. The same driver on the other speaker is fine. The surround looks good, so I can only assume that the voice coil is rubbing? Does anyone know if the CS5 woofers tend to have issues with sagging voice coils or surrounds? I will probably send the driver off to Rob, but I'm wondering if this is something I should be concerned about with the other five woofers. |
| Post removed |
I sold my CS3.7’s with the matching SS2 with appropriate crossover to a gentleman who loves them, but he has way high end power, like 80g’s stuff. I then bought a pair of Pioneer S-1ex’s and added a Pass Labs INT-60 , with a Parasound JC5 to switch off once in awhile, and for half what I got for the Thiel’s. Not a regret. The mid’s On the so-called TADS are really great. |
@charles1dad, my wife obviously prefers the Aries Cerat combo with the 3.7s.She loves this very rich organic sound and at the same time so transparent and dynamic.Imagine what we've heard is only the first level in Aries cerat line.There is this guy named Billy in the US who is building the world's biggest Aries Cerat system with full top of the line gear.The 6 chassis monoblocks retail for 250K. |
thieliste Interesting -- I had never even heard of Aries Cerat Concero 65 monoblocs prior to reading your post. I checked out the website and their products do indeed look very interesting - but way beyond what I'd be willing to spend -- and I remain committed to my Naim electronics based on long experience with the brand. I've been "out-of-the-market" for many years so this renewed bout of audiophialic disease is both exciting and frustrating! |
jafant Thanks for your feedback. I agree that I could have experimented more with positioning when I had the 3.7s for audition but was somewhat limited by time. I hope the issue is not a speaker-electronics mismatch because I don't have any plans to give up my Naim stuff. The match has been excellent with my 3.6s and - based on the specs - the 3.7s would seem to be a slightly easier load. While my Naim amp is not high-powered by Thiel standards, it is capable of driving low loads and providing high current so should be a good match with the 3.7s. ...so the journey continues... |
prof, thanks for your comments on the CS3.7s. I've spend some time reading old posts on this forum and paid attention to your many past comments. I see your long history and experience with Thiel speakers and with the 2.7s vs. 3.7s - and your travails in trying to choose between the two models. I'm going through much the same process currently so am finding your experience helpful. I haven't read through all the thousands of comments on this very interesting forum (I have to sleep some time unfortunately); I stopped at the point that you were still trying to make a decision between these two models. Your most recent posts seem to suggest you gave up and bought both or have decided to keep both? When I make a decision, I will be sure to experiment more with speaker positioning and, based on many comments by members, not limit myself to the standard triangle and instead try more variations. Best. |
@thielrules, Yes Aries Cerat preamp and monoblocks is in another league paired with the 3.7s, it is even more musical and engaging than the Ypsilon pre-power.This level of musicality is impossible to reach with SS.If you are ready to spend 46K and cope with size and weight of the gear than i would recommend Aries Cerat no question.Regarding myself i have not yet made a decision between Aries Cerat and CH Precision, the later one being much easier to live with, not heat and the gear is totally future proof.I cannot afford to make a mistake because here we're talking 80-90K worth of pre-power.This will be my end game system. |
