The very best sound: Direct to Disc

no one mentioned the 1982 Nautilus D2D LP "Secrets of the Andes" by Victor Feldman?  Lots of 'air'....you can hear the musicians breath and turn pages on the music stands if one listens closely....hard to find nowadays in mint condition...a CD is available but no cigar compared to the LP IMHO.
https://www.discogs.com/Victor-Feldman-Secret-Of-The-Andes/release/3447375

My first Sheffield was Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished Colleagues, which I purchased at Opus One in Pittsburgh in 1973. I've enjoyed many, particularly the Harry James and Erich Leinsdorf leading the LA Philharmonic in Debussy's Prelude to the afternoon of a fawn and Stravinsky's Firebird Suite. Other D2D's are Virgil Fox on Crystal Clear Records playing the Fratelli organ at the Crystal Cathedral, the Glenn Miller Orchestra, and Louis Bellson Note Smoking on Discwasher's label. My analog setup is a Linn LP12 with Cirkus and Lingo, an Ekos arm and Akiva cartridge feeding a Clearaudio Balance phono stage, Parasound Halo P7, Classe CA-5200, and Revel Performa F30's and a Performa B15 sub.

I have most all of the D2D mentioned, but feel I should submit some other great LPs. The OPUS 3 are fine recordings with special mics in defined acoustical spaces. They issued a series of system setup discs: imaging, dynamics, timbre, etc. Even better are the Pierre Verany LPs. The Mamba Percussions is amazing!

Dear @fleschler : To what RR label are you reffereing to?, if it’s Reference Recording I think I own all its recordings and no D2D LPs down there or at least I did not know RR has it. If is the same label and exist D2D from them I'm interested to know it and try to find out.

@oddlots M.Lavigne already posted it and I own at least one of them and is good recording but not up to best D2D several LPs that exist. 

R.

Dear @oldears  : I own all Opues 3 and mentioned that even that are very good recorded and even used as a system test are not in the same league of the well recorded D2D LPs. Of course only a first hand experienced opinion.

@angeloinny  you are rigth Nautilus label had good D2D recordings and even very good non D2D LPs too.

R.

Dear @rvpiano and friends: One D2D that we need to own comes by Ortofon that as we all know marketed the first commercial LOMC cartridge and Ortofon was too cutter heads manufacturer.

Several years ago I bougth around 25 test record ( Shure, CBS, Stereo Review, HI-Fi Sound, Micro-Acoustic, Vanguard, EMI, Denon, Telarc, Audio Technica and the like. ) and one of them was the pick-up test record by Ortofon that when I bought it I was not aware is a D2D LP recording and when I used the very first time that was really nice surprise because not only for its very special recorded tests but because in one LP side comes with classical MUSIC demostration/tests tracks with the Tivoli Symphony Orchestra and recorded inside the Tivoli Hall at Copenhagen Tivoli Gardens.

The recording is up there with the best D2D to enjoy that quality sound level on the recorded MUSIC an additional a very good test LP. Recomended.

Some of you already own The Power and the Majesty MoFi LP? if yes please give a listen and share your opinion about especially with the Thunderstorm track compared with the quality sound ofwell recorded D2D LPs and if you don’t owned yet then it’s good time to do it.


Now that I speak about dedicated test records I think that the well recorded and top D2D recordings are really " dedicated " room/system test records with an exceptional quality sound.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

I must have made an error as to the RR recordings, the early recordings were so dynamic and real sounding that I forgot they were from tape.
I also have great M&Ks (a dozen of them), Opus 3 recordings, Nautilus and Pierre Verany LPs. I would like to obtain the Mamba Percussions as my Verany discs are of baroque music and not as interesting.

I had purchased a number of Sheffield discs when they were released. Specific to this conversation I purchased two of each of the Amanda McBroom albums.  At that moment in time these two records were used relentlessly at stores to audition equipment. How many times did the staff have to hear Amanda?  I confess  my wife and I brought West of Oz into stores and auditioned, then bought, speakers based on her voice alone. Jump ahead a couple of decades and the same reaction was had at stores when Jennifer Warnes' Ballad of the Runaway Horse" was requested. I was a witness for that as well.

On more than one occasion I have offered my still-sealed second copies of the Sheffield McBroom albums for sale on-line. I have never received one response, let alone an offer. I have tried to sell them to record stores, but the re-seller business calculus prohibits any reasonable offers from the proprietors (it's not their fault, it's just the way it is).   So the second copies have sat, sealed, on the shelf for about 40 years. 

We sold Sheffield Labs in the 70's.   The Tower of Power direct to disc was great.  Wasn't Esther Satterfield on one?

Dear @rvpiano and friends: I wasn't aware that this 45ropm LP is D2D and I'm referring to the Toshiba/EMI Jun Fukamachi at Steinway ( Nocturne Chopin . ) recorded in 1976. At the front LP jacket is the picture of the face of a black cat.

Very good indeed.

In the information page inside the jacket we can read this:


"" a cartridge is required which can handle a much higher dynamic range.....sometimes it migth not be able to track correctly the grooves which has been recorded at such high level. Distortions, vibration, or, in some cases skipping of the stylus migth occur....... """""

Yes, they are totally rigth: the self tracking cartridge abilities is very important and makes a paramount differences in the quality sound when we are talking of these kind of LP D2D recordings.
Several times at micro levels the stylus tip is skipping and we not even be aware of. So the cartridge is the  must important link in the room/system to achieve and honor the very high quality sound levels that many of the D2D recordings have ( obviously along a good tonearm match. ).

Cartridges with high tracking abilities is the name of the game here and with well recorded digital LP's.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Dear @rvpiano and friends : I need to fix my mistake on what I posted on that D2D 45rpm LP of my last post.

"  Very good indeed. "

No, it's not that way. The player performance is mediocre one but the sound is not good even that is a D2D 45rpm recording.
The sound is lifeless, that Steinway instrument sounds just bad and this could be because the engineers choosed four Neumann microphones and they chossed that at least 2 of them were at only 5cms. above the strings and did not let the instrument possibility to breathe. All instruments needs its own minimum space to performs at its best and that did not happens in this recording.

I can be wrong but this is my take on it.

R.

@rauliruegas  Interesting post that you said about the Opus 3 LP's not being in the 'same league' as the well recorded D to D's. Maybe you could elaborate on why you think that. Owning a large number of both D to D's and Opus 3's, I think that the best Opus 3's are competitive with the average to better D toD...not quite as dynamic as the very best D to D's...but I certainly would NOT state the Opus 3's are 'not in the same league'. 
For instance, I was recently listening to the excellent M&K LP 'Flamenco Fever' which is IMO one of the best D to D's that I own...I then compared it to my copy of Opus 3 Yuyachifca. The M&K is more dynamic and has a slightly deeper soundstage, but the recording SQ of the Opus 3 is extraordinary...and is certainly close to the M&K!  

Dear @daveyf  : I think you have the answer but let me explain a little.

First I named the Opus 3 label as one of the great tape recordered labels ever but that does not puts the label at the Flamenco Fever D2D levels and is very easy to know why.

The Flamenco Fever recording just does not touched a tape recorder and I think that I don't need to explain you all the degradation to the signal that any tape recorder makes.

Now if in your system you can't detect that big difference in between then could be maybe because your room/system has not yet the resolution to be aware of.

Unfortunatelly does not exist the tape recorder version of Flamenco Fever as in the Sheffield D2D Dave Grusin sample.

As I posted before the only tape recorder LP I experienced that can be along the well recorded D2D LPs is The Power and the Majesty but even this can't compete with the top D2D LPs as Flamenco Fever.

I posted too that the only LPs that can compete bis a bis with the best D2D ones are some very well recorded digital LPs where the tape recorder just does not can degrades the 0,1 information in there.
One very good example of those digital recordings is the one I posted Paramita ( 24/96 ): astonoshing with MUSIC compositions using instruments that we normally are not accustom to other than female voice and some of the kind of drums used there.


R.

OPUS3 is recorded with a single point Blumlein microphone. they will not have the hyped dynamics of many D2D recordings which may have been multi-miked through a mixer with the microphone right at the instrument. They do convey IMHO the sound of real instruments in a real space often better than most D2D. The notes for the set up discs explain the space in which they were recording, details about the instruments, and what you should hear. I have found them to be very useful tools in evaluating changes in my system. They are now very difficult to find as LPs, but as they were recorded to tape, most of them have been reissued as CDs, and a few SACDs. Again the quality is very good, and I highly recommend them.BTW the microphones and placement by Doc Johnson make the RR recordings, for me often more realistic and enjoyable than all but a few D2Ds, and again, since recorded to tape they are available digitally. The 45 RPM LPs are really good.

@rauliruegas I totally agree with oldears, the Opus 3 Lp’s are superb on many levels. They do NOT have a hyped up sound that a lot of D to D’s do.
I think my system is perfectly capable of hearing the differences between the two formats, which is why I stated how great the Opus 3 LP’s are, and how slightly more dynamic the Flamenco Fever is...BUT I am certainly NOT saying, as you did that the two are " in a different league". Now OTOH IF you think that a digital recording can compete with these labels and formats, well that may say something about your posts. IMHO.

Dear @daveyf : Do you think that Bottas or Verstappen are in the same league than Hamilton, Vettel or Senna?

Both are excellent drivers but till today in different league than the others named. Yes close but not down there: yet.


Btw, even that I have good memory I will listen some digital recordings and will post my findings.


R.

@rauliruegas Not sure what racing drivers and their abilities have to do with this discussion?? 
BTW, "Now if in your system you can't detect that big difference in between then could be maybe because your room/system has not yet the resolution to be aware of." so IF you don't hear the differences when you go back to 'some digital recordings'...then maybe look no further.

@daveyf  : About the drivers example is only to say that it does not matters how near one of them are from the top ones because can't play in that top league yet. They have to improve to be there.

R.

Dear @jab  In D2D overall recording process there are several more important " things ", not that the amp is not important because everything down there it's.

Diferences in between the quality sound of its D2D LPs came from: diferent cutting lathe operator/mix-microphones, the rigth microphones positions and it volume levels, the master laquer engineer, the level of stress on that precise live recording by the artist/player and engineers involved, the cutting lathe quality level of set-up.
Remember that in a D2D recording there is no way to make any kind of editting mistakes or something where the artist or the producer just do not like as the best should be.

Check your Sheffield LPs and take a look for the people involved in the different recording sessions over different time/years or months.

R.

@rauliruegas  What you just posted accounts for the differences in music/performance, not so much to the sound of the recording. 

IMHO, there are a lot more excellent sounding Opus 3 LP's than there are D to D LP's. From a recording perspective- and a performance perspective. YMMV.

Dear @daveyf  : ""  IF you think that a digital recording can compete with these labels and formats, well that may say something about your posts""

If we compare D2D LPs against digital recorded LPs and other than the medium the main difference with LPs recorded using a tape recorder is that D2D and digital ones recordings do not use a tape recorder.

Tape recorder can't degrades/damages those 0,1s .Digital cutting LP process signal is the original signal as in D2D process. Yes, you need a DAC but the level of degradation down there is not at all significant as we can think and what I'm talking about is for those top digital LPs recordings.

I own hundreds of digital recorded LPs and almost all are really bad but the ones that are good ones are LPs that you can put it along those well recorded D2D LPs. I have not the time now but I will give you some digital LPs examples of that quality level condition.


"""  Now if in your system you can't detect that big difference in between then could be maybe because your room/system has not yet the resolution to be aware of." so IF you don't hear the differences when you go back to 'some digital recordings'...then maybe look no further. """

Fortunatelly and as you my room/system resolution is not only high but way higher than normal systems. I can be aware of almost everything on differences in quality levels.

At least you need to listen in your system the West Music Paramita digital  recorded LP that I posted here twice.


R.

Dear @daveyf  : ""  What you just posted accounts for the differences in music/performance, not so much to the sound of the recording. ""

How is that, please explain it? because if the choice of the microphones position is " wrong " that affects the qualñity of the sound recording or if the choice of the kind of microphones used is not the correct to pick-up all the instruments sound then that affects the quality of the sound reproduction the same for the quality level of the mastering.

If the recording microphones don't took in correct way a female vopice the quality sound can be the best one we can achieve for that female voice. Even the live handled of the mixing micro console is way important. Why exist different cutting heads where some engineers choosed this or that. Why not always the same cuthing head? common sense tells that because could affects the quality sound recording levels.

R.

 @rauliruegas  You posted this:" The level of stress on that precise live recording by the artist/player". Which brings about my point! 

Now I see your point. Good.

R.

Dear friends and  @daveyf  : This is what I posted in other thread on digital recorded LPs that can compete with D2D LPs:


"""  Now you and any one needs to listen ( is a must to. ) the digital recorded ( 24/96 ) LPs made it by WindMusic label.I own the titles Paramita and Mystical Scent. Last time I seen Paramita sealed LP on ebay was sold for over 500.00.

Well, in these as in other digital recordings I own nothing of what you posted about that digital is missing " something " happens with in my analog rig and set up that's first rate including my Phonolinepreamp.

Exist other digital recording LPs that comes from " old " times and the ones mastered by Stan Ricker and others are just  " there qwith D2D ".

Labels I can mention: Telarc ( I own over 50 LPs. ) ones but not all only some of them, Delos are excellent recordings ( Telarc and Delos used Soundstream digital recorder and mastering by Stan Ricker. ), some Denon whom designed and builded its own digital recorder and Chandos label too.

In those times was an " euphoria " for the digital LPs and several labels but almost all digital recordings in reality sound auwful/terrible like the ones from Teldec or Deca or DG or Philips or Varese Sarabande, Chalfont, etc, etc.

The digital well recorded are truly good and makes any decent room/systems shines. Unfortunatelly even in the same label not all titles are good, example: in Telarc the third and fifth piano Beethoven concertos ( R. Serkin. ) are way different in sound quality level where one of them is just lifeless, the recordings were made with two years difference in between.  ""

R.

@rauliruegas  I'm not going to say all digital recordings are not great, just the majority of them, IME. OTOH, I can think of one that is actually reference quality...and it is the MoFi Allison Krauss and Union station Live album. This one is a superb recording and enjoyable on a number of different levels. 

Dear @daveyf  : Yes, really good I owned and today by your post learned is a digital recorded LP.

Btw,  the Telarc digital recording LP ( 1979 ) of 1812 Overture states that the recording goes from 6hz and up.The 1812 recording is really good and not only for its great bass range with a definition, accuracy and rigthness quality no analog recording can touch it but all the score: that Carillon is an EXPERIENCE to listen it as the triangle or the tambourine. Exist a today reissue made it by the FIM label. Both LPs are something to listen as many other Telarcs titles: Carmen, Mahler Titan, Pictures at an exibition and many more and are easy to buy it all.

There is at least one digital recording by Delos title that we have to have: Beethoven Piano Sonatas with the female player Carol Rosenberger in a
Bösendorfer Imperial Concert Grand instrument.|

From Denon PCM I remember Brahms Piano works with a female player: Annerose Schmidt.

I forgot in my last post to mention the digital LPs by M&K, they named Digital Master Series and I own all that are classical MUSIC with the Philharmonia Hungarica.

R.

@rauliruegas  I own all of the M&K Digital LP's. While they are listenable, I do NOT think they hold a candle to the analog LP's from M&K. The Digital LP's have a certain digital sheen that I find to be unpleasant over the long haul.

Dear @daveyf  : Well those D2D from M&K are top ones and agree with you about.


"""  have a certain digital sheen.... """ that's how the live MUSIC sounds seated at near field position.

For how many hours do you think can listed live MUSIC at nearfield position?. Please seat at 2-3m- from a trumpet player playing at live event SDPL and you will know that can't listen not even half an hour in a row !

Recording microphones are seated at very near source position.

R.

@rauliruegas  Once again, I'm not following you how the sound of a live instrument from up close or far, has anything to do with the 'digital sheen' that I hear from a digital recording. Two very different types of sound, IMHO. YMMV.

For classical music fans, I just learned the Berlin Philharmonic is releasing a new set of Bruckner Symphonies recorded direct to disc.
Not being a big Bruckner admirer, I’ll pass on it.

@rvpiano  The Bruckner Berliner D to D set has been out for a little while now. It is not exactly an inexpensive box set. I'm going to pass as well, too many other albums that can be bought with great SQ for a lot less $$.

Dear @rvpiano :  Me neither but my latest experiences with new D2D ( Anne Bison. ) , some from Acoustics Sound, the Elio Villafranca, etc, etc. are not the best ones.
Those engineers can have the knowledge but seems to me not very good skills on that kind of overall recording process.

R.

@rauliruegas I was thinking of pulling the trigger on the Anne Bisson D to D album, why do you think it is not one of the better ones?

I just ordered the new Gary Bartz & Maisha D2D and it 
should arrive shortly. I have the Sean Kuti  & Egypt 80, 
also on the Night Dreamer label. I like it but think that 
the Bartz/Maisha might get a bit more play based on
what I've heard on Youtube.

Quite reasonably priced in any event. 

Dear @daveyf  : My first AB LP was the title Blue Mind under Fidelio label . She is very good composer and with really good voice and the recording was very good too on quality performance level.

The D2D one has not that really " live " imediacy and palpabilty that you can hear in Flamenco Fever or the Keltner track or the Earl Hines recordings.

It's not that is not good seems to me that I already had high expectations about before I listened.

R.

@rauliruegas  Agree that the Blue Mind title is very good...which leads me to have much higher expectations for the D2D. Since you apparently had the same expectations, I can see how this could lead to a let down! 
Compared to Flamenco Fever ( which one has to admit, the music lends itself for extreme dynamics and immediacy..and which lady with piano in some ways does not) I am not that surprised that the overall SQ is less impressive. One question is why there are so very few 'amazing' sounding recordings out there in this day and age?  Is digital the cause of this?

Interesting about Amanda McBroom who's been mentioned frequently in this thread. I was surprised to see she had a role in an old Mash episode I saw on TV some time ago. A most talented person.

Mention of the Telarc 1812 remains Ned's me of Beethoven Wellington's Victory on Mercury Living Presence. (with spoken commentary describing the firing, with sounds during the recording session).  "The 6-pound smooth-bore bronze cannons & 12 pound Howitzer,  French Charlevolle-pattern muskets & British Brown Bess muskets, courtesy of U.S. Military Academy, West Point, New York". 

(remains Ned's)? remind's me...

Just for completeness, it should be mentioned that the first two Telarc releases were D2D. There was a recording of the Cleveland Orchestra, and an organ recital by Michael Murray. I’d have to go back and listen to them, but I do not recall the Cleveland record as being particularly well received.

By the way, I think Keith Johnson (of RR) proved, decades ago, that a recording cut from an outstanding tape can have an SQ at least as good as D2D. Plus there are considerable advantages to having a tape. I have several of each and I like them all.

I have to agree. When Keith Johnson paired with Doug Sax to produce Reference LP’s the results were spectacular, comparable to D2Ds.
I can’t say the same for his CDs though.
Never liked the sound of RR CDs.

@rvpiano

IIRC he did not pair with Sax to produce RR disks.  RR and Sax's company, Sheffield Records, were competitive.  

At one time time, later in the LP era, they did collaborate in a series of 3 classical LPs recorded in Russia for the Sheffield label, "The Moscow Sessions."  However, since Johnson's very special tape machine was "contracted" to RR, they had to borrow one (from Wilson IIRC) to do these recordings.  Very good recordings, but not up to the RR standard IMO.

This was a very long time ago, so I might not have it exactly straight.

Yes, you’re right.  Got a little confused.  Sax is not affiliated with RR.
You're also correct about the Moscow Sessions.  They’re not up to the standards of RR or Sheffield LP’s.  Very distant miking, similar in perspective to RR’s present CDs.

Dear @melm  : I posted here that I own the D2D Telarc with the Cleveland and that is really bad recording against almost any D2D similar kind of recordings.

Btw, I was unaware that Telarc recorded not one but two D2D LPs.

R.

I'm a little surprised that the MoFi Mingus Ah Um D2D, featured in the latest S'Phile has not been mentioned. It is largely sold out on preorder. It is not cheap-$125 and up depending on reseller for two 45 rpm records reportedly (Jim Austin wrote the piece) in a vault of a package. Mr. Austin wrote that though pricey, he has never heard better vinyl. 

Onestep Ultradisc Ah Um is not D2D.

"At one time time, later in the LP era, they did collaborate in a series of 3 classical LPs recorded in Russia for the Sheffield label, "The Moscow Sessions." However, since Johnson’s very special tape machine was "contracted" to RR, they had to borrow one (from Wilson IIRC) to do these recordings. Very good recordings, but not up to the RR standard IMO."

Those Moscow Sessions are some of the best recordings of an orchestra that i have ever heard. IMO. Not the CD but the LPs. The best version of Appalachian Spring I have ever heard is in this set by a Russian orchestra. lol