The Truth About Power Cords and there "Real" Price to Performance

Cullen Cable from integrated amp and streamer into a Furman Digital Power Conditioner.  Clear positive change in sound, even to my 63 year old ears.  Relatively inexpensive, too.

@atdavid  @swanlee5979 

To your point, this thread was never intended to turn into a "Audio Snob Session"!!!

So what I am thinking of doing is separating the groups so everyone can speak to the current system without insulting "Porsche or Toyota" "Cadillac or Chevy" at the end of the day we are all Audio Owners that Love Audio.

FYI to all! I have invited manufactures to chime in and some politely responded that this has never worked out for them for these reasons along with the Kamikaze Nasty Remarks! So in the meantime if this happens I ask that all of you to please be respectful or I will "Hyphenate" you idiotic responses!

I will need your help to do this so please be respectful and courteous :)

My thoughts:

I will start different threads based on your current system dollar amount to keep the cross talk in order. 

Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 10K-20K 

Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 30K-40K

Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 50K-60K

Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 60K-80K

Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 90K +

Hope it works!

Cheers!



       

".... I ask that all of you to please be respectful or I will "Hyphenate" you idiotic responses!"

bluemartini,

Does that mean that anyone who posts a differing opinion is an idiot?  

Greetings All,

I believe that each of you will agree that this idea of segregating systems  at there prospective price points will fuel more fun allowing all to better zero in on your personal systems needs.

I have spoken to various manufactures that would also like to participate as longs a we can be respectful and learn from one another, "Yes" even  manufactures need to keep the ear to the ground to better understand the challenges in the respective market place. I believe it will be interesting what we can learn from each other, them from us and us from them.  

Just a Novel Thought.

Cheers! 

A novel thought would be demonstrating their products actually do what they claim, but sure, break down the price points. GK will get in every thread and spam them anyway.

@turnbowm

I don’t believe I called anyone an idiot for having a difference of opinion, quite the contrary!

I am referring to those who are "Disruptive" jumping in looking for a fight, insulting others opinions or questions.

@atdavid

Good point!
lol, I did break down the price point. GK is welcome as long as he plays nice:)

anotherbob, I have 2 Cullen cables I will sell at 50p% off

bluemartini,

Thanks for the clarification.

@blumartini,

To me, a good power cable/cord is what you can afford and what sounds good to you - in your system. That’s why my first foray into the power cord fray I bought an inexpensive power cord from Mr. Patrick Cullen of CULLEN CABLE for just about the same price points of The Master Coupler - that I never heard of until this evening. Thanks again millercarbon. And speaking of wine - what’s wrong with 2 buck chuck?

The Master Coupler is in effect the Gold Standard of power cords and at about $150-300 is hard to beat especially for someone with upgrades in mind.

Here's a link to Jay Luong of Audio Bacon 27 Best Audiophile Power Cables
https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/

Nice thread @blumartini !!!

+ 1 @anotherbob,

I completely missed your post!

@atdavid. Well said. 

" @blumartini  please update about the friend in Hawaii and his generator.I'm really curious if that would provide clean power "

OMG no!  Way too much EMI and RFI.  Very dirty power... unless you use a PS Audio power regenerator or some form of isolation transformer.

At times I have had to use a gasoline generator to power my house... and my PS Audio Noise Harvesters go berserk.

" that the price-performance ratio in part depends on what you are connecting the power cord to "

Yup... and at both ends.  It starts at the outlet, (and any power conditioners after it, and before the equipment).

I'll also add that sometimes too much of a good thing... can be a bad thing.

After initially liking what I was hearing with my Shunyata investments... I kept going.

After losing most of my midrange, and the treble becoming pinched and thin... the majority of that stuff is in the closet.

" So I like most of you have to scratch my head and ask where do I begin what brand and product and what should i really pay for it? "

Sometimes you have to look at the measurements and composition of the cords/cables.  Typically, (IME), cables with high capacitance and/or inductance... have deleterious effects on SQ.

" Well, since the first 25 - 100' or more of cable in your house is most like 12 or 14 gauge solid core romex, shouldn't we just keep it all the same and use more of that? "

There's an old audiophile saying...  " don't think of the power cable as the last few feet... but the first few feet. "

Otherwise intelligent people with too much unearned money will buy a $16,000.00 power cord merely so they can tell their friends, "That power cord cost me $16K." Then, when pressed, they will make up some BS about why such a power cord could possibly be a good value.  None of which would have any real bearing on the cords ability to actually enhance the musical listening experience.

No one has ever conducted a verified A/B double blind test on exotic power cords where the result was any other than inconclusive.  Save some money and stick with the good stock cord the manufacturer provided.

Any kind person have a link to where the Master Coupler is $250? Everything I've found searching online appears to be $500 plus and used...

Diminishing returns as you climb the money ladder.

Any kind person have a link to where the Master Coupler is $250? Everything I've found searching online appears to be $500 plus and used...

Wow. I paid $175 for mine, but that was back around 1993 when full retail was around $300. I saw ones a while back on here which is where I got my figures from, but I'm not really in the market. The $500 may have been the Anniversary Edition. I know the original Master Couplers like mine are really good. Not that hyped hifi sound that is so common, but truly well-balanced. Not as good as newer Synergistic but awfully good compared to just about anything else.

At $500, if it was me, I'd start looking at whatever newer Synergistic that would get me. Even back in the day, I have Synergistic Designers Reference which for sure is a whole lot better. Also for sure their newer is better. Synergistic is unique in this regard. Its simply a question of price. 

Take your time, keep looking, and give serious consideration to anything Synergistic around $500, be it Blue tech or CTS or Active or whatever. The downside of Active, some of them depending on when they were made used MPC wall warts. Some don't care for the extra wires. But the neat thing about Active Shielding, Michael Spallone does a killer cap and diode upgrade that elevates everything to an even higher level.

If all else fails PM me, I'll sell you one of mine, use the $$ to upgrade to even better SR.

I have been into hifi for circa 30 years in that time I have never changed the power cords. 

This year I have had a revaluation buying several Mark Grant cables at £75 each and a power block at £150 not a massive outlay but huge benefit. No other changes to my system it just worked beautifully.

System is Melco streamer into exposure dac to Croft epoch elite and croft twin star 1 power amp and piega classic 40.2 speakers with LFD speaker cables. 

I feel very lucky to have such a great sound at home. 

I second  kudelka8.
I use full loom of Lithuanian cables as well. I strongly recommend you try them. The name is Lessloss. Best price/performance ratio.

LOL... umm... I would like to request a section for:

Best Price To Performance Power Cords for Systems that range 10K- and under ???

I’m thoroughly convinced that there arrives a point of diminishing returns, to an even exponential degree. 

It’s relative to your budget and level of control over a space, I suppose? But in my humble setup ....after getting all my interconnects up to decent cabling, I simply upgraded the outlet in the wall feeding my system and paid just $90 for a Wireworld power cable for my Creek, huge difference. Enough so that spending any more may only make things different...not better. The only other major improvement would have to be completely changing the room itself, which is a non-option at this point. And I’m ok with that, as I’m ecstatic at the idea that I’ve constructed an EXCELLENT sounding setup with a very limited allotted budget. That in itself is the glorious result. I would feel the complete opposite if I’d spent a small fortune on only a slightly more effective piece of copper laden in wrapping and jewelry to receive a marginal, even questionable improvement.

Hi,

I have been putting my new basement system together for a couple of years now, and have recently upgraded interconnects and power cable.
My system: PS Audio Direct Stream DAC w Bridge, wired to router > 
PS BHK Pre > PS BHK 250 stereo amp > B&W N802's > Stereo Paradigm Studio 15 Subs.  Direct line to my PS Audio Power Port Receptacle.  Balanced interconnects and Power Cords from Mark Tunis in Florida, all custom made using silver clad wire.  they are moderately inexpensive for the quality and were a noticeable improvement over the stock power cords and cheap interconnects.  So now that I had settled in with my equipment, I decided to try some 'nicer' interconnects.  I first tried to sets of nicer balanced XLR interconnects.  AQ Colorado, and Shunyata Black Mamba.  I tried these because they were on close out at Music Direct, I could try and return, and they were not stupid expensive.
I loved the Shunyata's, and did not like the AQ Colorado's.  The Black Mambas improved EVERYTHING in my system.  Bass, imaging, soundstage, resolution and WARMTH.  So I sent back the AQ and have the Shunyata Black Mambas and big improvement for a good deal at 300 a pair.  To me that is great price to performance.  But this is a power cable post..  I also recently got an Inakustik 3500p power conditioner.
New company, again not stupid expensive at around $3000, great reviews... and it improved my system again.  But it came with a stock power cable, so..... I talked to Steven at The Cable Company, and he suggested I try a Synergistic Research Atmosphere level 2 (20 amp).  I would have never been drawn to this type of name and technology, and perhaps by reading all the negativity about cables in general it is easy to believe it does not matter that much and stupid to upgrade.  But all I can say is WOW.  Listened last night for hours with my lady, going back and forth with the stock cord and the SR cord from the wall to the 3500p conditioner.  Changed nothing else.  Again, what an improvement.  Heard little tingly things in familiar songs that I had not heard before.  Imaging spot on, soundstage wider and deeper. Clearer.  Stock cable sounded muffled.  Bass and Midrange fuller.  Everything.  So a 1200 cable? (demo at a big discount)  I would have never thought it was worth it.  Value to cost? Totally worth it.  I guess I have about a $20,000 system
and can think of no other upgrade for this cost that has the bang for the buck.  And I plug everything into the 3500p.  Just my experience, sorry for long post!  Anyone around Balt / Washington want to get together a listen?  Ken.

As I can only speak to my experience with several manufacturers/ brands over the years -  the best results I have had from Power Chords are 

Stage 3 Concepts, Kraken 
http://www.stage3concepts.com/
http://aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=215

High Fidelity Cables
https://www.highfidelitycables.com/power/professional-series/

I have also had great results from  Analysis Plus Cables
https://www.analysis-plus.com/product/home-audio/power-cables/ultimate-power-oval/

For those that care...
In 2018 /2019  I made an investment into computer audio. I have been skeptical about the benefits vs limitations of the technology. I had a Mac Mini Modified with a separate power supply, and external clock. My overall impression was that it was O.K. it did not sound half as good as my CDP set up but it sounded respectable for the 4k I put into it.

Out of curiosity I decided to hook up a Stage 3 Concepts Kraken to the Mac Mini set up. There was a moment of disbelief as it sounded almost as good as the CDP. The difference was not subtle and was by far the best I have ever heard computer audio sound. It only took a Power Cable twice the total investment cost to get the Mac Mini to perform and exceed expectations.    
   

Here's a used "Reference"  MC for $375.

https://www.usedcable.com/synergistic-research-reference-ac-master-coupler-x-series-active-15-amp-ie...

Not sure what the difference is between it and the standard MC.

Standard MC on ebay for $325.

https://www.ebay.com/i/153422829878?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&am...

Vista1868 commented about system quality symmetry with interconnects should equate likewise with power cords.

A quality, clear stream of power coming into a component is not the same as a signal stream from that component. In fact, in simple terms, it only empowers the component’s ability to do what it can...nothing less and nothing more. It will not emphasize its flaws.
As for an excellent power cord regardless of price, check out Grover Huffman’s. I’ve tried several cords and his performs just as well as the high cost standards by Audience, Nordost, Audioquest, and the other usual suspects. It’s true.
http://www.groverhuffman.com/powercords

Mike Morrow asked me to post this. He was one of the 27 cord companies Jay Revied.


Regarding power cords, we at Morrow Audio also do not fully understand howthe last few feet from the wall outlet to the equipment can make a difference. But, it is a real thing that can be heard. My personal noticeis that most power cords that come with equipment are made of poor quality copper, so replacing with a good qualitycord will make a difference. There is also a lowering of the impedance when using higher gauges, providing a betterpower transfer to the equipment. The connectors are likewise of much higher quality than the equipment manufacturerprovides, again providing better contact and power transfer. RFI can likewise influence, this lessened with propertwisting of the wires like in our power cords. All these things add up, providing the sonic changes and improvementsthat one hears. - Mike Morrow

@tweak1 

"I probably have several thousand dollars of cables in the closet, most have little to no resale value."

Your closet has my curiosity piqued.   :)

   I don't think Price to Performance if i can get 3,,,4, % better i will buy it.   Problem i have ,   Can i afford the product  i can't buy 10 k  wire  so i buy a 
Cable that has the word 
"Clear" in it's Model  

@mwoh419

I saw the same at usedcable.com and used TO ME - is affordable. Also on the Synergistic Research website there are different levels of power cords and as audiophiles upgrade there are bound to be ones available for resale on sites such as hifi shark. This maybe good news to some looking to try Synergistic Research power cords.

@fastfreight

If your Synergistic Research Atmosphere level 2 (20 amp) power cord performed as well as you say it did ’new’, would you please report back after the burn/run in period. I think we here would really be interested in your responses then too!

If you hv ultra deep pockets, its nice luxury to spent BIG sums on hifi to get closer to ' true' sound. 
Even then, u can get the most value only if u balance yr spent. Yr power cable shd preferably be at 10-20% of yr total spent. 
As there is only so much a great power cord can do. The greatest determinants of SQ will be yr amps n speakers, followed by the other peripherals. 
But yes, choosing the best sounding and best value power cord /cable within a defined range of budget is still very tough without A/B test. That's where perhaps experienced audiogons can help. Rgds. 

@limbc

When I started to get back in the hi fi audiophile game one of the first things I noticed that even very expensive gear had stock ’lamp (shade) grade’ power cords and I read somewhere that ’oxygen free’ cable were better and I’ve been upgrading ever since. Sometimes without any need for A/B testing if something looked, well cheap.

I also think that anyone can be an ’experienced audiophile’ when you start spending your hard earned money on hi fi gear and somehow you think it’s ’disposable income’.:)
In my humble opinion of course.

Perhaps the "venom" isn't that at all.  Maybe it is realists trying to keep the forum playing field level for newbies just tuning in.  Some here will say a $4000 power cord will provide "jaw dropping" sound quality improvements.  I do not believe that is scientifically possible; nor have I ever heard a power cord or any tweak provide "jaw dropping" anything.  Accordingly, I have said so on this forum.  Newbies need to know that those "audiophiles" here with their jaws dragging on the floor are not necessarly accurate...and, in their proclamations, need to, more often, use the words "in my opinion."

Have to disagree. Your greatest determinants are your speakers and room, followed by your TT setup if you are doing vinyl, and then your amp.

limbc2 posts11-15-2019 7:00pmIf you hv ultra deep pockets, its nice luxury to spent BIG sums on hifi to get closer to ' true' sound.
Even then, u can get the most value only if u balance yr spent. Yr power cable shd preferably be at 10-20% of yr total spent.
As there is only so much a great power cord can do. The greatest determinants of SQ will be yr amps n speakers, followed by the other peripherals.
But yes, choosing the best sounding and best value power cord /cable within a defined range of budget is still very tough without A/B test. That's where perhaps experienced audiogons can help. Rgds.

To most of your points,


I often wondered why most power cord/cable companies out there don't put there money where their mouth is?

Most all of us cant walk up to a showroom with your amp or components and audition cables the way you can with speakers amps etc. So whats the next best thing? I found 1 yes only 1 so far that puts his money where his mouth in and backs now with a 60 day money back customer satisfaction guarantee!  NRG Custom Cables  is one of the 27 Audiophile power cord company Jay Luong reviewed.

• Price: $328 USD including worldwide shipping
• Conductor: 4N OFC, 4.5 AWG hot & neutral, 7.5 AWG ground
• Dielectric: Teflon
• Shielding: Grounded copper sleeve/shield

NRG Custom Cables’s motto is: “Design by Math & Science – Not by Marketing.” Interesting.

I loved the idea so much I personally am going to try them on 3 different amps and A Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner as well as direct to the wall!

The amps are all different amp 1. is Class A/B Amp. 2. Is Class A/B//Tube Hybrid and Amp. 3. Will be all Tubes!

The test might be after thanksgiving as I will be traveling but I thing it will be worth it.

Love it when a manufacture believes in his product so much they Guarantee it or your money back!

Cheers

Talk is cheap. I design power cords. Who wants to finally get off your ass and double blind shootout ?. Lets get to the bottom of this lame ass argument that has been going on since the beginning of time. If your cable beats mine, it ,means power cords work and Ive done the industry a huge favor. We can end the conversation and move on to speaker cables, and interconnects until the whole talk is over as far as cables go.
Anyone can join the party, does not have to be other designers, you can rep your favorite designer if you like. So we can find out which cable is best I guess ...yippee,,, it will be expensive im sure. That does not matter to the marketplace as much as whose is best for the least amount of money ? I’ll bet I win this Title and if a $300 cable beats mine, then we will vote for whose cable looks the most unique and innovatiove regardless of anything else.. I got a solid foot in on that one. .. My 5 foot cord is $800. I will start here, the same thing in pure solid 5N silver within my line is $1500. If we really want to get down, Im sure I can cheapify my cable and maintain performance. Both are bargain by Audiopohile standards. No audio show shootouts as the acoustics are crappy at best. I’ll do this at my house in Atlanta GA. If nobody wants to blind test, I’ll do it with local audiophile buddies and record it with high grade microphones and post it to youtube. Its time for all us to pull up our dang panties and put this to rest by the REAL way, blind testing, I could care less if I win or not, I just dont want this damn drivel all the time around my sacred place, the HiFi Hobby. dont any of you feel like you are taking part in a whiny pissant discussion when your job is to be listening to music, discovering wonderful new styles and albums by sharing with one another your findings, and paying homage to the reason this website even exists ??? Its MUSIC ! Remember that one thing ??.. You all are off in the weeds wasting precious time and not listening to music and enjoying all the cool things it can do for us .... Wake up Audiophiles, this is MUSIC calling...

You can never record and make any analysis with microphones or YouTube. Has to be live. I am in Atlanta regularly. Count me in! 

@mikepowellaudio: Interesting marketing technique. However if you are a professional, I’d opine that you need to tone it down a bit. You really think forum members from around the world are going to stop their lives and come to your home in Atlanta just because you are hosting a test?

I get it, you know we won’t, can’t, don’t want to or just have no interest. Here’s an idea...raise your price ten times. There are forum members here who will buy for no other reason than an accessory is outlandishly expensive.

The power cord doesn’t matter as long as the gauge is correct for your circuit.  
15A circuit = 14AWG
20A circuit = 12AWG
30A circuit = 10AWG

You can use hospital grade outlets if you want a good, solid connection from your cord to the outlet.

Spend your extra money on a power conditioner / re-generator / filter.  Those actually matter and *can* make an audible difference if you have noisy AC power.  If you have coax service (Cable TV) into your system you may have buzzing / ground loops on your sub; fiber optic/Toslink can break that ground loop, as can a nice filter on your coax.

The above information is real-world vs. all the cable voodoo nonsense I see on here.

Hmmmm I live in Atlanta.  I might be interested, Mike Powell.  Are you talking IEC cords?

Not sure what your correct gauge for the circuit is supposed to convey. I am not arguing one way or the other, I just don't see the relevance. Peak currents on the AC waveform can be higher than average rating to AC waveform modulation at the equipment can happen. Obviously the run breaker box to wall plug is more important as is equipment to equipment ground.  Again, not saying the cord will make a difference, just don't think that statement about gauge and current is relevant.

My power cord test involved a good-quality CD player (Oppo 105) and a good-quality set of headphones (Sennheiser HD800.) The CD player has a headphone output, and so I chose a familiar CD and listened to the sound quality from each power cord in the test. The PC was the only variable in a controlled test. My sound quality target was what I was used to hearing through my Woo Audio WA22 headphone amplifier with a set of premium NOS tubes (such as the WE421 power tubes.) 

I began with the CD connected to my power conditioner using the stock cord. The sound was unlistenable. Of course, it's easy to blame the headphone output in ANY component, especially inexpensive ones. Then I moved up the power cord food chain, starting with the least-expensive PC from a small shop that cost $75 - a noticeable improvement, but still pretty dreadful sounding.

I made a series of moves to higher costing PCs that I had accumulated in my quest for truth, using better small-shop offerings that cost $150 to $250. To my surprise, the sound quality from the headphones was now quite listenable. If I had to live with this limited headphone system, this CD player and power cord would be all I needed. Total cost: $3K.

When I moved up to the expensive category of commercial PCs ($1,000 to $3,000 - which I buy at 1/2 retail or less) the sound quality improved by another significant amount. It now started to sound like the reference sound from the headphone amplifier.

So, there you have it: a "poor-man's test" of the effect of power cords. When it's the only variable, the results can only be attributed to the power cord - or to one's own delusions. 

Worry not: the Woo still won the day, but it was because of a better output mechanism and quality amplification that provide the delivery of the more nuanced qualities that separate good sound from really excellent sound. Unfortunately, that move costs a lot of money. And as someone already pointed out, the money should go first to better components and not to a better power cord.

Hey dynaquest what exactly is "unearned" money?


By the way, I dont feel there is ever any need to preface anything stated with an "in my opinion" as this is universally understood as a given.