The Palladian-A step beyond

All the reviews say it sounds like live music:

http://www.hifistatement.net/tests/item/1834-acoustical-systems-the-palladian?limitstart=0

Dear Fleib, There is an Serbian joke about Croatian artillery.

Captan: ''fire all cannons!''

Soldier: ''you mean both captain?''

By ''all those reviews'' you mentiond there is just one and then

in German. I am sure that your predecesors are from the Balkan.

There are actually four MC carts designed and produced by

our ''old member'' Dertonarm (Der Tonarm in German).

All (grin) are basicaly the same but the Anchor is a kind of an

bargain in comparisson with other Dertonarm's prices. It looks

as if Dertonarm wanted to satisfy poor as well the rich people.

He obviously has his own logic.  The other  are Astron, Aivon and

Palladion. As far as I know only Thuchan owns all of them.

Because I am poor in comparison with Thuchan I own just one,

''curious'' the cheapest one. But my problem is this. Dertonarm

asked me to never mention his name in our forum. I promissed

but could not resist to at least mention ''all his carts''. My guess

based on inside information is that he tuned his carts in accordance with his ''life long love'' for the FR-7 fz kind.

Nandric,

The other descriptions I saw appear to be from dealers, so I think you must be right. Since Halcro didn't write a full review I guess we have a grand total of 1.  If Acoustical Systems wants a "professional" review in the US, they'll probably have to advertise or advertise more.

While I only know a handful of words in German, my translator does a pretty good job. Japanese - not so good.  But the photo tells us it has a straight cantilever and it looks like aluminum, and with a nude tip.  Seems unusual for a cart with this price tag. Turns out that's exactly what it is, but shorter than previous models and the tip is shibata.

The review has some BS about aluminum resonances being less objectionable than more exotic materials because they are lower in frequency. It might be true in this case because I suspect Brakemeier used this to voice the cart according to his design goals - live music. 

Not having heard the cart I can't comment further. Seems a bit overpriced to me, but most new stuff does.

Regards,

''Those damn details'' he said ''I had no idea that she was prostitute

for 10 years before I married her''.

Well not as dramatic but I also overlooked ''some datails''. All

those cart versions I mentioned are ''limited edition'' so I fear

that the poor among you should forget Archon. While I always

admired Dertonarm and considered him as my first ''genius friend''

I was very susrprised with his ''creativity erruption'' of late. But so

many carts in such a short time may mean that the former series

are sold out. One can't expect from even an ''ordinary person'' not

to increase his prices by his next series. But according to the logic

I ascribed to  Dertonarm (poor versus rich) I expect as his next

''move'' the ''poor man Apolite'' (grin, grin).

BTW one of the comments to Thuchans ''review'' mentioned FR-7f

as his guess regarding Dertonarm ''inspiration''. This person

is ''obviously'' wrong because I was right with my FR-7fz guess

(grin).

Dear Lew, We have this principle not to comment on items we

have never heard. But to quote ''your'' Groucho Marx: ''If you don't like my principles I have other''.

Lew, I suspect it was involuntary. Palladian refers to the goddess Pallas Athena and apparently Brakemeier is her modern champion. The goddess must have mistakenly been upset when you joked about her known attributes, but on a modern demi goddess.

This might seem like a stretch, but everyone knows we're powerless when it comes to goddesses.

Regards,

But I don’t like ‘modern’ LOMC cartridges.

I don’t like their exaggerated high frequencies…

I don’t like their recessed unnatural midrange timidity…

I don’t like their pseudo-impressive but unrealistic bass thump…

And I particularly don’t like their near ability to suck the emotional content out of the music…..

I know that the above is a generalisation and that most of the high-end audio fraternity strongly disagree with that sweeping analysis, but after owning a dozen of the respected ‘modern’ LOMCs over the last 25 years, I have embraced the delights of vintage MM cartridges in their place.

Vintage LOMCs on the other hand (like vintage MMs) are a different kettle of fish in my book….

The SPUs, EMTs, Neumann DST, FR-7 series, Sony XL-55 etc. project a soundstage and musical presentation seemingly at odds with the ‘modern’ sound.

How did this state come to be?

Is it the quest for seemingly greater detail retrieval demanded by aging audiophile ears and the ‘rational’ that higher pricing is synonymous with ‘revealing’ (I hate that word) cartridges?

Dietrich Brakemeier has been a devotee of vintage LOMC cartridge and tonearm design for decades.

I believe he started off in audio re-wiring the great Fidelity Research tonearms, the FR-64s and FR-66s with pure silver Litz.

His admiration for the FR-7 series cartridges (particularly the FR-7f and FR-7Fz) is well known through his contributions to various Audio Forums.

The fact that he has, only fairly recently, been able to launch a new audio company successfully manufacturing only analogue equipment (including the incredible Apolyt turntable) is an encouraging sign for all who love vinyl.

The latest and greatest of his four cartridge designs (Archon, Astron, Aiwon are the others), the Palladian advances on the design of the Aiwon. As Dietrich explains:-

“When we introduced the aiwon in early winter 2014 we were amazed by its subtle detail, by its ability to recreate tiny, tantalizing details – minor details which so immensely support the emotional impact and the sense of reality in a sonic picture.

Over the next 18 months we experimented with a few samples of the aiwon trying to further fine tune for even more impact in performance.

But it was not before we made subtle changes in some key inherent design parameters that we entered new ground.

This was the birth of the design which then evolved in the spring of 2016 into the palladian.

The palladian features a hand hammered Timet 1100 Titanium body of unequalled strength and with an unparalleled ability to transfer energy.

In the palladian we find a strong heart with more energy (coil windings), a body more agile with less inertia (reduced moving mass), featuring further a very special, subtle mix of small measures taken to fine tune each and every parameter of performance allowing for a sonic explosion beyond our expectations and hopes.

The hand hammered body, the quicksilverish shine like a dragon’s skin - The palladian Timet 1100 body expresses visually its agility, vital dynamic and live-likeness.

The palladian brings that spark of life back into the sonic presentation of each and every recording.

That spark of life – independent whether large or small – that was there when the performance was once captured.

The palladian is fast, life-like dynamic and breathtaking direct in its color, immediateness and agility.

An incredible agile, dynamic dancer – a reminiscent of Misha Baryshnikov in his prime.

It is subtle, tender and sublime – yet frightening dynamic, with a sonic punch both wall-shaking and stunning physical in its impact.

The palladian is.. live ….. in the very best sense and in the true spirit of the music.

And with the palladian the true spirit of the music is there.

Our statement in phono cartridges ….. our best.”

 

Wow……hyperbole? Marketing speak? Or just plain B.S…..?

I mounted the Palladian in the Yamamoto HS-4 carbon fiber headshell (which I had discovered elevates the performance of every cartridge I have tried) fitted to one of my FR-66s tonearms on the Raven AC-2 turntable running through the Kondo KSL-sFz SUT into the MM input of the Halcro DM-10 phonostage.

Straight out of the box, the sound of the Palladian stunned me……

Those who know what an SPU-Ae Gold or FR-7fz can sound like in the right system will know how rare an experience this can be.

An enveloping soundstage filled the entire volume of my lofted-ceiling listening space with shimmering translucent midrange realism…..

No strain…..no brittle edginess….no drone to the nether regions, only a sense of wonder.

A sense of ‘the live event’ Brakemeier had written about.

This was no marketing hyperbole…..

This was what we dreamed it could be like when we listened to music in our homes.

This was the fulfillment of 60 years of promises…..

I find it meaningless to delve into detailed descriptions of how particular tracks on particular albums sounded (as most Reviewers now seem to do) for no-one knows what they sounded like before the item under review…?

What I do find illuminating is how a cartridge handles the ‘worst’ of recorded music.

The challenging, poorly recorded or poorly engineered tracks, which normally make you want to stop listening.

For it’s almost certain that these tracks sounded ‘listenable’ on the original master tape, but the distortions introduced in the mastering, pressing and playback stages has pushed the sound past a coherent point.

Only a few cartridges can ‘retrieve’ enough, and distort minimally enough, to render these ‘horror’ tracks listenable and sometimes even enjoyable.

Harvest by Neil Young on Reprise (7599-27239-1) has some nicely recorded tracks (Out On The Weekend, Harvest, Heart Of Gold) as well as 2 tracks (Alabama, Words), which have confounded me with their leanness, lack of real bass, vocal distortion and complete lack of depth. The album was recorded at four different venues with three different Producers and those two tracks share the same Producers and venues.

With the Palladian, I was actually able to listen to these tracks without flinching, and could now clearly ascertain the 'out-of-key' harmonies of Stephen Stills together with the clearly over-dubbed lead guitar boosted above the general sound level on the right channel and the completely flat soundstage.

So clear and cleanly illuminated were all the artifacts of the recording engineer displayed…that it became, for the first time listening to these….an enjoyable and intriguing experience.

Respighi Pines of Rome (Reiner on the Classic Records re-issue of the RCA LSC-2436) had always brought my wife storming down the hallway at the 'screeching' Finale whilst I scrambled for the volume control to save my bleeding ears.

Now with the Palladian….the wife actually sits and listens!

The shrill distortions of the complex massed strings and horns previously heard with lesser cartridges, became transparently effortless just as they are in a concert hall for yes…..live music CAN be shrill, complex and congested but also understood and transparent at the same time.

George Harrison’s box set ‘All Things Must Pass’ produced by Harrison and Phil Spector and digitally remastered in 2001 has some wonderful music but some dubious sound quality (probably caused by the digital remastering).

‘Wah-Wah’ in particular on side 1…..symptomatic of Spector’s ‘Wall-of-Sound’ signature, is so congested, frequency-limited and distorted that no matter which turntable I use or which arm I use or which cartridge I use (even MMs)….NOTHING can make this track anything but a chore to listen to till its end.

Now I’m not going to say that the Palladian transforms this track into a sonic wonder….but it’s the only cartridge that allows me to listen till the end without reducing the volume or hitting the mute switch…..

Of course it’s a given that the Palladian does justice to all your favourite well-recorded albums.

What is NOT a given is how the Palladian projects a force-field into your listening space. A force-field so like the ‘real’ thing that you sit there literally open-mouthed, not quite believing what you’re hearing but transfixed by the majesty of the illusion.

Brakemeier has managed to create a cartridge which builds upon the knowledge of the past great LOMC cartridges like the SPUs and FR-7 series whilst pushing the technology envelope to allow even further possibilities.

This is truly as close to live sound as I have yet heard produced in my listening room.

This is a cartridge that Art Dudley would love and understand….

I suspect that even Michael Fremer (who admits to impatience with vintage sound and products) might appreciate the breakthrough the Palladian presents?

Everyone who is serious about the information still buried within the humble vinyl record, needs to hear the Palladian even if he can’t afford the steep sticker price, for sound like this unfortunately….does not come cheaply.

I also admire Dertonarm and even love the guy but it never

occured to me to write a poem for him (grin).

Is it the quest for seemingly greater detail retrieval demanded by aging audiophile ears and the ‘rational’ that higher pricing is synonymous with ‘revealing’ (I hate that word) cartridges?

What I do find illuminating is how a cartridge handles the ‘worst’ of recorded music.

What I do find illuminating is how a cartridge handles the ‘worst’ of recorded music.

Yes. Exactly.

I never understood why someone might prefer a "revealing" component? Is the objective to find flaws in recordings & other gear or to enjoy music?

Btw, makes no sense to me ( knowing the HDM 10 and your SUT. ) not use the Palladian directly in the Halcro phonolinepreamp??????

I had no idea that I like the same (kinds?) of distortions like

''some Aussie''. But I do know that he likes MM carts while I

like the MC kinds. Ergo both MM and MC carts have the same

distortions.  What is more I just bought Klyne 7 PX 3.5.5 phono

pre and prefer its lowest amplification (37 dB) in combo with

Denon AU-S1 SUT for all my MC carts. At present with Archon

''the poor man Palladian''. Even more strange is the coincidence

that his and my gear ''must have'' the same distortions. I need

to add that Dertonarm himself  also used SUT's with FR-7 kinds

earlier and probably with his own carts now. So, it seems, we

are in good company.

Help me please: what does this cartridge cost and where can you buy them? Thank you.

Have you read and taken in what halcro and I have written? What you have done here is attack the product by attacking our personal listening credibility based on our systems and a review of a cd. “I can’t speak about the Palladian because I never heard it”. Bravo. Correct. But nevertheless speak you do, and all damning. Thank you for your patronization “I could think goes in the same “school” where you learned/study”. You know zero about the decades of equipment I have listened to.

For me, the best thing is when someone comes up with a suggestion to go in a direction that I would not have otherwise taken and my ears tell me that my pre-judgement was woefully incorrect. For many years I was a power amp tube guy (Audio Research, VTL Ichiban, CAT – but you already knew that rauliruegas) after a disastrous set of Roland 100 monoblocks back in 1988 (100 watt monoblocks with a badly masquerading tube sound thick as liquorice and unbelievably poor bass). The then Rowland preamp on the other hand was good. After all my relatively high powered tube amps I eventually went tube single-ended pure class A and the simpler the circuit the better, driving efficient speakers. I had the opportunity to trial at home one of only two custom monoblock pairs made by Audion around the VAIC 52B tube. No expense was spared – custom silver wired transformers etc. The circuit was very simple. So according to my thinking they should perform, and indeed they did. They delivered a reasonable amount of current so the bass was good. The midrange had great detail, lovely tonal texture (not unnaturally warm) and the treble was airy and extended. Great amps. I was going to stop there. And then the hi-fi dealer, for whom the custom Audions were made, told me I should get a Kinoshita HQS2500UPM power amplifier instead and not take his Audions. Nothing could have been further from my thoughts – a highly complicated high wattage transistor amp. I told him sure the bass would be better but not the mids and treble and so I refused. He said he had such faith in it he would order it and I could listen and decide, no obligation. I did and it took me about 2 minutes (of course with significant further verification listening) to decide. The Kinoshita blew the Audions away in every regard including the midrange and treble, and of course the bass.

I did not go to one school rauliruegas. I have been to too many and I remain open to any. I raise the above example not for the point of tubes v transistors nor to give you further ammunition to attack my listening credibility, but for us all to have open inquiring minds and to judge with our ears and not speculate against and denigrate others actual experiences because they do not fit our own prejudices. Yes I am prejudiced based on my experiences but I remain open to hear all approaches to hear whether I think they better my own and if they do I am grateful to know this to point me in a better direction.

Well consensus is fine but disputes  are more exciting. Thought  with

exception of the Mexican.

Dear Chris, You missed the point (grin). The question is if we have

the same distortions despite the fact that we have different gear

as well as diferent preferences. BTW there are many Serbians in

Australia so Slivovitz should be available.  But I assume that he

prefer  French brands.

EEK !!!

I think I saw a mouse.

In USA $10,445

Sancho Panza was a kind of technical servant of Don Quichot.

As was the case in those old times all the merits of an servant

belonged to their masters. So those pre-amps, tonearms, headshells

etc, as pretended inventions of  Raul are actually made (or not)by

his Sancho Panza. Don Quichot himself was not even able to fix

his own blown up midrange speakers. I think that Sancho Panza

discovered that slavery was abandoned and started for him

self. This (should) explain Halcro's wondering about those missing

tonearms  and other promissed components.  

Last night I was listening to my SS re-tipped Grace Ruby, about a $600 total investment, and wondering whether and how, for example, a ZYX UNIverse will compare to it.

Dear comrade Fleib, What I have seen is much more disturbing then

your mouse. All those ''exotic cantilevers'' among which your

beloved hollow (aka tubed) boron cantilever, are glued in an

small aluminum tube which is then glued in the so called ''joint

pipe'' on which the coils and suspension are fastened. I am sorry

for your aversion against aluminum but this ''inferior material''

seems to be inevitable.

Nandric,

The mouse wasn't disturbing, only a little surprising. Most of them have been eliminated by B C the cat. She likes to play with them, bat them around and give chase. Then she lets them go.

They scurry off, but mortally wounded from her claws, they find a place to die. Hopefully, that place isn't behind an unmovable object like a radiator. Sometimes I find them by smell.  At first, B C used to bring them to me, but seeing my aversion to mouse, she no longer does.

I have no such aversion to aluminum, the Mr Softee of metals, but it depends on the specifics. It's light weight and rather flexible in thin pieces and I've long said that I prefer straight aluminum cantilevers to tapered, in certain applications.

I agree with Raul in one respect even though I haven't heard any of Brakemeier's products. He hasn't invented anything including the uni-din alignment.  How is an alignment an invention anyway?  Find 2 nulls along the recorded part and you have an alignment. I used similar alignments 30+ years ago setting up Japanese tables. They were inevitably designed for Stevenson. If you locate the cart at the far end of the headshell slots and increase offset angle you get an inner null of about 63.5mm.

With extremely expensive high end carts, it's hard to see the value. Personally, I think WWIII is just around the corner and a solar or wind powered generator/battery charger for your bomb shelter would be a better investment.

Regards,
 

Dear Fleib, It all depends from describing things one way or the

other. Wittgenstein called this ''languge games''. I don't believe

that Japanese invented swords but they are able to make the best

kinds. You claim to have  ''never heard any of Brakemeiers products''

but what would you be able to HEAR from an alignments tool? I think that you have an very limited understanding of ''inovation''. Those are

other things then (new) inventions. In the context of the so called

''intellectual property'' there is diffrence between ''know how'' and

patent application. Ascribing to Brakemeir inventions is not the

same as his own pretention to have invented something or other.

I am not aware that he claimed any invention. But if he owns a

patent for any of his products you can't argue against . Neither can Raul nor even his Sancho Panza. Assumptions are not the same as

evidence.