Halcro, thank you for your review which I very much enjoyed reading. I would not change one word of it. I have now enjoyed many hours listening with my Palladian in my Axiom arm. I also have an FR7f 6 digit and an Aiwon. The Aiwon is to me a wonderful refinement of the FR7f. The Palladian has significantly improved on the Aiwon such that it has taken my system to a new level. The cartridges were aligned with the UNI-Protractor, the best alignment tool I have used, and its unique UNI-DIN tangential curve template.
To me, a sign of system greatness is when I hear a piece of music which has previously made no sense to me, all of a sudden make sense. I am sorry I cannot describe this better. This has only happened to me twice. The first time was several years ago hearing a Jeff Beck track on a CD sourced system with Kinoshita’s large mono power amps driving Kinoshita Monitor RMs in a special purpose room designed by Tom Hidley to studio spec. Tom told me that on his studio grading scale he would give the room a solid 7 out of 10. The track went for me from a mass of jumbled sound to an integrated, meaningful and powerful piece. It was like all of a sudden I heard what Jeff Beck wanted to convey. The second time was recently with the Palladian in my system on playing the “Gone with the Wind” Dan Hicks track on the Bob Wasserman “Duets” album. His voice went from an irritating noise to an artful use of voice that became fascinating. I cannot give higher praise.
I have been in this wonderful hobby of ours for decades and endured endless wars: tube v transistor, this v that. I am still saddened when people in hobbies attack each other. I speculate that this is some tribal throwback to our base genetic survival strategies. I would recommend that you forget the words about this or that design feature and this or that personality, and decide with your ears. We all have different preferences but I cannot imagine an honest enthusiast hearing a well set up Palladian in a good system (by good I mean sounding good – IMHO there is so much over-priced underperforming gear) and not respect this cartridge.
To close, I have to thank Audiogon for introducing me to Dietrich, the man behind Acoustical Systems who previously posted as Dertonarm, and his excellent products. I have also to thank Syntax for answering endless emails from me way back when I was considering buying my Micro Seiki turntable, and numerous others like Halcro for contributing their honest opinions for my consideration. I love our hobby which brings the wonder of music into our homes with high fidelity, and the Internet for enabling this.
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"Newcomers always welcomed." Well thank you rauliruegas for your wonderful welcome and damning praise! Sir, “with all my respect to”, what an impressive ability you have to dam something that you have not heard through shear speculation based on prejudices which I take it are a dislike of the designer and the type of equipment you think this cartridge must represent. Listen to the cartridge and then I will happily read your conclusions. What you are indulging in is useless mischief. Have you read and taken in what halcro and I have written? What you have done here is attack the product by attacking our personal listening credibility based on our systems and a review of a cd. “I can’t speak about the Palladian because I never heard it”. Bravo. Correct. But nevertheless speak you do, and all damning. Thank you for your patronization “I could think goes in the same “school” where you learned/study”. You know zero about the decades of equipment I have listened to. For me, the best thing is when someone comes up with a suggestion to go in a direction that I would not have otherwise taken and my ears tell me that my pre-judgement was woefully incorrect. For many years I was a power amp tube guy (Audio Research, VTL Ichiban, CAT – but you already knew that rauliruegas) after a disastrous set of Roland 100 monoblocks back in 1988 (100 watt monoblocks with a badly masquerading tube sound thick as liquorice and unbelievably poor bass). The then Rowland preamp on the other hand was good. After all my relatively high powered tube amps I eventually went tube single-ended pure class A and the simpler the circuit the better, driving efficient speakers. I had the opportunity to trial at home one of only two custom monoblock pairs made by Audion around the VAIC 52B tube. No expense was spared – custom silver wired transformers etc. The circuit was very simple. So according to my thinking they should perform, and indeed they did. They delivered a reasonable amount of current so the bass was good. The midrange had great detail, lovely tonal texture (not unnaturally warm) and the treble was airy and extended. Great amps. I was going to stop there. And then the hi-fi dealer, for whom the custom Audions were made, told me I should get a Kinoshita HQS2500UPM power amplifier instead and not take his Audions. Nothing could have been further from my thoughts – a highly complicated high wattage transistor amp. I told him sure the bass would be better but not the mids and treble and so I refused. He said he had such faith in it he would order it and I could listen and decide, no obligation. I did and it took me about 2 minutes (of course with significant further verification listening) to decide. The Kinoshita blew the Audions away in every regard including the midrange and treble, and of course the bass. I did not go to one school rauliruegas. I have been to too many and I remain open to any. I raise the above example not for the point of tubes v transistors nor to give you further ammunition to attack my listening credibility, but for us all to have open inquiring minds and to judge with our ears and not speculate against and denigrate others actual experiences because they do not fit our own prejudices. Yes I am prejudiced based on my experiences but I remain open to hear all approaches to hear whether I think they better my own and if they do I am grateful to know this to point me in a better direction. |
Dear halcro,
Many thanks for giving me the background and for your sage advice. All understood and I will pen no more in this regard!
All the best
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Since a number of us are quoting heroes, I feel I must quote one of mine, Black Adder.
Sir Percy: "The Spanish Princess' eyes are more beautiful than the famous blue stone of Galveston."
Black Adder: "Have you ever seen this stone?"
Sir Percy: "No, not as such My Lord, but I know a few people who have and they say it's very blue."
Black Adder: "Have these people seen the Spanish Princess' eyes?"
Sir Percy: "No I shouldn't think so My Lord."
Black Adder: "Neither have you possibly?"
Sir Percy: "No My Lord".
Black Adder: "So what you are telling me Percy is that something you have not seen is slightly less blue than something else you have never seen?"
Sir Percy: "Yes My Lord."
Black Adder: "You idiot Percy!"
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I am sitting back basking in the sound of my Palladian, aligned to UNI-DIN, which gives me an unprecedented amount of information for my senses to process. The additional information is in so many regards: ambience, all parts of the frequency spectrum, changes in voice pressure etc. And this, coupled with excellent macro and micro dynamics, and a balanced frequency response, all add to make my listening experience the more believable and enjoyable.
Somehow it managed to do all of this regardless of the debates that are raging around its design fundamentals and alignment and the personal dislikes of some for its designer. To give full scientific context to my listening experience, I should note that my personal cantilever (not to be confused with the Palladian's cantilever) started off highly flexible (and therefore I would think reasonably damped?). However, with heightened enjoyment (listening that is) its tensile characteristics firmed considerably. I would presume that it therefore became less damped? At all times it remained hollow throughout.
Riddle me this. Approach A is superior as per the laws of physics to Approach B. However, regardless of which approach is used, it will have to interact with other areas. Also, the quality of the execution of the approach will also determine the result. So even if I know that Approach A is scientifically superior, it does not mean that a componet following A will sonically outperform one following B. I therefore use my ultimate approach, my EARS to determine the final result for me. If you have the opportunity to hear a Palladian, I would suggest that you do. It is an excellent cartridge.
I now have the courage to write this having purchased and applied copious quantities of LOTFR (Lord Of The Flies Repellent).
All the best!
And "enjoy the music" even if you do not listen to my type of music on my type of equipment! I think this is meant to be a hobby.
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nandric,
I think your last post sums up most of the critique, if I can call it that, in this thread. What never ceases to amaze me is how people with little to no technical knowledge and experience pontificate and personally attack the few experts that post on forums. I used to frequent the 993 forum on Rennlist. You would think that such a forum would be narrow enough not to warrant personal attacks. But no. The most bitter thread was between staunch supporters of Mobil 1 who technically collectively knew a pinch of the proverbial, and 2 experts (one an oil specialist and the other a highly experienced mechanic) who for the best interests of owners advised that the reformulation of the oil to meet EU standards required no zinc and therefore had resulted in premature wear in oil cooled engines. We never saw those experts on the forum again. Why should they bother giving highly valuable advice only to be personally attacked by people with little to know actual technical knowledge and technical experience?
I know that I do not have the technical knowledge or the technical experience to evaluate designs on a technical level, and so never attempt to. What would be the point? Who would I be kidding? I guess I would first have to work out how to kid myself. But I can listen to a product and tell you what it sounds likes to me, and that is what I innocently tried to do for the benefit of those who might want to take advantage of my experience.
All the best,
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Sad, very sad. This forum should be about the performance of products. It should not be about trying to discredit inanimate products based on a forum member's prejudice against the animate creator and anyone who has the audacity to honestly extol them. And as per my actual experience with dealing with Mr Brakemeier over a number of years in relation to Acoustical System ("AS") products, the attacks of Messrs @rauliruegas and @fleib on his technical and ethical credibility are totally without foundation. I have found him technically the best, scrupulously honest and the maker of superlative products. To any members quietly reading this thread, which @halcro started with an excellent review of the outstanding Palladian the purpose of which was to positively inform, and which has since been hijacked by two posters with demonstrably malevolent intent, AS make cutting edge products, the proof of which is in the listening and not in the "round and round the garden like a teddy bear" written pontification, which I fear can lead one to becoming retromingent (what a lovely word - I have always wanted to use it). My first product from AS was cartridge set-up equipment based on their exceptional UNI-DIN alignment. This is a great place to start. The UNI-DIN approach is informatively explained on the AS website: http://www.arche-headshell.de/uni-din-a-new-approach/I do hope that we can all kiss and make up and move on and enjoy this wonderful hobby, and present our views, all the more credibly, without personal attacks. |
@folkfreak, I found that there was a significant change in the Palladian's sound after the first 10 hours or so of playing, all very positive. I would not have been happy with that initial sound compared to my run-in Aiwon. If you see promise immediately, I wager that you are in for a very happy experience. I very much look forward to your follow-up.
@lewm , a pity we do not live close, otherwise I would invite you around for a listen and a cup of good Chinese tea. Cartridges are practically the most difficult things to audition.
All the best.
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@fleib , Despite any history you might have with Dertonarm AKA Dietrich
Brakemeier, I think this cart should be judged on its merits. You might
have a hard time convincing Acoustical Systems cartridge owners that
their ears are deceiving them. The rest is history or conjecture. I appreciate this comment as these are the words of an open mind. Here's the thing. I am not a geometrician and I do not know the geometry behind UNI-DIN. But what I do know is that there must be excellent geometry behind UNI-DIN as otherwise it would not work. It is impossible for it to produce the sound I am getting if it did not work. I can appreciate people wanting to discuss and debate technical aspects that they see are behind designs. But these discussions cannot change the actual performance that products are producing. I do not need to know how something works to know that it does work. All the best. |
@fleib , Firstly, please accept my apologies for trying to be friendly. It is evidently something beyond you at this stage of your human development. My mistake. Hopefully friendliness will develop in you later.
So you are arguing over the cartridge making the sound rather than the alignment. Oh please. Of course the cartridge makes the sound. What a brilliant deduction. My congratulations to you. You have now understood the first step in getting excellent sound. Let me now see if I can show you the second.
Let me try and make this very simple. A badly aligned cartridge, however good, will not produce the quality of sound I am hearing. You like word pictures (and oh such colourful ones), so maybe you will be able to understand this exceptionally difficult second step with a word picture. The Mercedes F1 car, produced the best results this season delivering 1st and 2nd in the drivers championship. And I hope this does not complicate this picture too much for you, these cars did require excellent drivers. There is no doubt that it was the exceptional quality of the car combined with the excellent quality of the driver that delivered this best performance (car+driver = cartridge). But if Mercedes had used terrible wheel alignment the exceptional quality of the car and driver would have delivered the worst result (alignment = alignment). All clear now?!
But credit where credit is due. You are amazing in that you can comment so much on something you have zero experience with, UNI-DIN.
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The “Mental”
Simulators (coming to hijack a friendly and informative thread near you)
- a Play in 1,318 Parts The sun is shining and everyone is happy @halcro : I
have just taken the Mercedes F1 car out on the track and it is fast and
beautifully balanced. I have never experienced anything like it.
bluewolf: I
have had exactly the same experience with the Mercedes F1, set up as per their
proprietary MERC-DIN alignment. Black threatening clouds move in and block the sun
Flash, flash, followed by lightening and thunder and the sound of air evacuating balloons
@rauliruegas : the
Mercedes F1 cannot be good. I know that without driving it or knowing anything
about it because I don’t like the designer and I don’t like the cars he use to
like before he designed the Mercedes F1. And bluewolf cannot judge good
performance because I read a review of a motorbike he didn’t like and I think
it is great, and he likes exactly what the F1 designer likes as he owns some of
the cars the F1 designer use to like. So the Mercedes F1 cannot be any good.
@fleib : I
have never used MERC-DIN but I have used a simulator that does not take into
account the geometry behind MERC-DIN and I can declare that MERC-DIN is crap. Intermission!
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There is no point responding to the Cabal of @rauliruegas and @fleib .They are uncovered for what they are: bitter, sad and malicious people of the narrowest of minds. The following Zen story is apt: Merchant: Master, I would like you to teach me Zen. Zen Master: I cannot do that. Merchant: Why not? I will give you gold. Zen Master: Tea? Merchant: Sure. The Zen Master placed a tea cup in front of the merchant and began pouring until the cup was full, and continued pouring with the tea pouring onto the table. Merchant: What are you doing? Stop! Are you mad? Zen Master: This is why I cannot teach you. Your head is full. But response must be made to the Cabal’s scurrilous and malicious attack on Mr Brakemeier because of: - Some bitter and twisted personal vendetta – presumably as a world-class cutting-edge designer he had the audacity to correct their babbling meanderings in the past; or
- They think that the products he respects and AS products do not accord with their didactic opinions; or
- All of the above.
They both are now quoting an email chain from a number of years back to support this with zero knowledge of the actual events. But hey why should that stop them. They have zero knowledge of or experience with any AS product yet they try to destroy their credibility through attacking their design attributes, the integrity of the designer and anyone with the audacity to disagree with the great Cabal. My experience with AS and that of the Audiogoner’s on this thread that have actually purchased AS products have been without fault. The Cabal even knows how blue the Spanish Infantor’s eyes are without having seen them. https://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&a... |
Hi @halcro , I have also made this upgrade and it surprised me how much difference it made. But maybe it should not have given the effects unwanted vibrations not properly dealt with can have at this critical point. I also have been told, "second hand"
😀,
that they even made a difference over titanium screws made to less exacting standards.
All the best.
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To the Great Cabal, do everyone here a favour and follow
your own advice!!!
@fleib
“Not sure why I'm wasting time here.”
@rauliruegas
“Dear @fleib : As
you stated: don't lost your time.”
We will survive so so well without two people who have zero
interest in the subject and only wish to troll.
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