The Palladian-A step beyond
Dear Thuchan, Raul introduced all kinds of ''levels'' but with obvious preference for ''ignorance''-and ''distortion levels''. Your advice to ''go for Palladian or the ART 1000'' caused me to introduce ''financial level''. My question ''either Ikeda 9 Rex or R'' was caused by my ''financial level''. I wrote :'' I can't afford both''. |
Dear Thuchan, Who would believe in the ''modesty'' of Rockefellers? Would you believe that they know ''exactely'' what they own? Anyway my question is pretty exact. I am very fond of my FR-7fz and also bought Ikeda 9c . I am in love with both but you know how we are: very curious. So I am curious about Ikeda 9Rex and 9R. I can't afford both but, I hope, I can afford one of them. I am not interested in jazz so your ''job'' should be very easy. Which one for the classical music? |
Ha ha Nandric, I know exactely how many carts I have. When I reach 100 this year I will tell you. Nevertheless the number is not important. It makes also no sense to classify favourites from 1 to 10 or so. I sometimes (!) forget certain carts and discover them again in a certain tonearm/cart combination, yes for special usages like guitar music, or Trio Jazz, maybe good rock music. If you would ask me more specific questions, like in which arm for what music I am prefering a certain cart that seems to make more sense for me, somehow... |
Dear Thuchan, I have no idea how many carts you own. However more strange is the fact that you also have no idea how many you own. I ever got a picture of your ''collection'' but was not able to count them. So I limited my question to those cantileverless Ikeda's 9. Your answer was that you use ''some'' for jazz and ''some'' for other kind of music. Alas ''some'' is not a name so without reference. This is obvious by complaints like ''someone has stolen my car''. I do love you but your ''advice'' is worthless. |
@thuchan interesting you found that with the PHTs. I had much the same experience when I tried it on my old AirTight PC-1. Minimal if any effect and tended to blur and diffuse the sound in a negative way. I use several dozen HFTs in my listening room but for me the PHT was a dud. I still have one on my Miyajima Zero and maybe a good time for me to reevaluate |
Dear Thuchan, Thanks for your instructions. I have seen the construction meanwhile and fear that an possible retip of the stylus and/ or cantilever is out of question. Aka: irrepareble . The stylus must be somehow connected with the coils ; either by glue or some wire both of which will make this construction very vulnerable. To me the cantileverless Ikeda 9 looks much more reliable and simpler. I hope Dover will be so kind to explain this issue. |
Dear Downunder, Audio Technica designed with the ART 1000 a wonderful transponder producing a stable, warm and lush sound. It is voluminous, well-tempered, harmonious and comes with a good resolution. Regarding the three-dimensionality is does not deliver the wide and open space the Palladian does. But it wouldn’t be fair to call this a disadvantage. It is just another way of listening habit you go along with. |
Dear Thuchan, Those ''good old days'' are still relevant. I have not seen many of your contributions in our ''MM thread'' but those who participate there do know about ''Victor X-1 II'' which is according to some of us the best ever MM cart. What is obviously less known is the ''Victor MC1''; direct couple type cartridge. The first MC cart with coils glued near the stylus on the cantilever ''nose'' wih 4 thin wire along the cantilever to the 4 pin connectors. Your ART 1000 is direct successor or rather ''heir'' of Victor MC1. I was stunned to read this by ART 1000 introduction even more so than by the ART 1000 price (grin). Alas I have not yet seen pictures which could explain or enlighten how AT solved the coil problem. Victor used an small silicon plate with etched coils and (very) thin ''signal wire'' to the 4 pin connector. One of those is broken on my sample while Axel was not able to solder this one back. Alas irreparable. |
Dear Nandric, These were the good old days, the beginning of the ninties last century. We had no internet! The Minidisc had just arrived. I was happy to experience that period at the lower level of the Sony Center building in Tokyo when you went out of the subway station. Great collection of records too. Today it's spirit is gone, very sad. The Ikeda9 is a fine cart. I do me hard which one is best. They are different or maybe put it better that way:I do prefer some for rock, some for Jazz music. The Palladian has a fantastic three dimensionality, the ART 1000 is singing beautifully and warm with a good resolution, the Ikeda9 is more on the dynamic side as is the Atlas. Could continue... |
Dear thuchan, I know that you are some kind of ''globetrotter'' probably because you have business ''everywhere''. However one does not need to travel to Japan in order to get some ''exotic'' Japanese cart : www.jauce.com is all what one needs. BTW as a person who owns ''everything'' already what about Ikeda 9 the cantileverless cart? I mean which one is the best? There are many models but hardly any info about any. |
Dear Raul, I discovered AT during my business time in Japan and therefore had a different access as most audiophiles in Europe. I do not know why they only covered the US market besides of their home market and neglected Europe. You were lucky in these days. You're right on AT's quality as I found out on their carts too and an excellent very heavy TT mat. The ART 1000 is again an outstanding cart. |
Dear @thuchan : Audio Technica/Signet has an enviable cartridge manyfactuer pedigree that perhaps only Ortofon can be nearest to AT. They were one of the first manufacturers to choose the Shibata stylus tip along berylium and boron cantilevers materials but they used too ruby and diamond material for top models in its cantilevers and even developed its own stylus shape they named micro-line. They were almost the first manufacturers that used blend and all cartridge body materials as titanium and ceramic one even with external body damping materials. They developed several great cartridges in both alternatives: LOMC and MM ones where its top models even today are a challange for today other manufacturers designs. AT, developed too equipment to make LPs and even developed some self AT recordings including the great testing AT two records presentation. They were and are true experts on analog develoments of tonearms ( along AC. ) and SUTs. They developed too first rate and very high quality magnesium headshells, cartridge wires, phono and IC cables, TT platter clamps, TT mats including the first stand alone vaccum hold down mat and they took the time to developed and marketed very good damping feets to use it every where in a system but especially on TTs. Apart from that, AT are manufacturing ( for many years. ) professional microphones ( for studio recordings and home too. ) as headphones of every type, including electrostatic. Even manufactured speakers, TT and some electronics. Always with a first rate quality by any standards. Unfortunatelly AT never been took in count by all those FALSE analog " professional " gurus " " and for the corrupted AHEE where all audiophiles belongs to. If it’s true that JVC L-1000 was one of the first cartridge manufacturer to unveiled the ART 1000 idea about to seat " there " the coils ( they did it in different way. I owned the JVC. ) the way AT choosed to do it is a patent for them and it’s not the only " new " kind of design on it but something that they did it before that’s: air core/non-magnetic coil armature that they unveils for the first time in its designs with the AT50ANV, ART7 ( no, the ART9 is a different design. ) and now the ART 1000. This is the only top AT/Signet model I never have the opportunity to listen it. I owned/own or listened all its top models in my system. Congratulations to own the ART 1000 that as I said is developed and manufactured by TRUE very high pedigree analog EXPERTS. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
Dear Nandric, Sorry for confusing. I would like to tell you who is first and who is second but I believe the moderators will not like it. Just tried but it was refused. You may know that this platform is not allowing carrying jokes, especially when it comes to our exchange on wonderful high end related topics. So I have to e-mail you. Sorry for that. |
Dear Nandric, I know. It's about a tuning issue. Very special but from this world. I need to explain it, nevertheless I am just studying and experimenting. So may I ask you to be patient for one more week. I will then be ready to present my results. Just running the AT ART 1000 for the first time, also got an additional hybrid phono pre from Acoustic Arts for testing. Somehow busy now. And I am not getting paid for that! Greetings to the Netherlands, enjoy being third... |
Dear Thuchan, I know that you own ''Ditrich's tonearm'' (aka Dertonarm's tonearm) so it looks to me very brave from you to confront him with ''some competition''. However I have no idea what you mean with ''a Joker''? Besides the issue is about the tonearms (one would think) but the ''Joker'' apply for the cart (Palladium). I know that you are very busy man but your ''explantion'' is too short and not very clear. |
@thuchan congrats on the SPJ arm -- I always lusted after the SPJ LaLuce Centoventi that Brooks Berdan had -- perhaps one day I'll be able to pick one up My tonearm is a composite I'm afraid but even so the effect of the Ti screws is apparent. Unfortunately I'll not be able to try them on my other arm as the Miyajima cartridges require extra long screws that go all the way through the body Still waiting on the shim 😕 but will report on that when/if it arrives ps I just added the EnigmaAcoustics Sopranino supertweeter to my system -- very synergistic with the Palladian, the high end extension and clarity the cartridge brings works well with the supertweeter -- interesting how bass sounds become deeper, clearer and better defined once you have better control of the leading edge of the sound |
It appears that titanium does possess some valuable qualities for audio reproduction.....at least in the turntable/tonearm/cartridge side of things. Your SpJ tonearm Thuchan, is a thing of beauty. Has Dietrich heard it with his Palladian cartridge yet? After all....he did a lot of the refurbishment on it and was instrumental in connecting you with its previous owner...😎 |
Folkfreak, As you are now aquainted with the titanium screws you may need a titanium tonearm. Are you already running one? I just got a SpJ fully titanium tonearm, also the tube. Here the Timet screws feel very familiar with the Palladian...the sound is terrific. I am using the combo on my Caeles table. |
Finally to report on my new screws -- as mentioned they come nicely presented, two pairs one shorter set and one longer. Each with a small plastic type washer. The shorter pair were an exact swap for the brass screws that had come with my Palladian. One difference is that the Timet screws are allen key mounted while the brass used a screwdriver -- generally the former is to be preferred if for no other reason than minimizing the chance of the screwdriver slipping and causing who knows what damage 😏 The Timet 1100 screws are a little lighter than the brass so VTF needs to be reset (about a .15g change, so quite a lot) With it all set up on to listening and yes they do make a substantial improvement -- probably the best way to describe it is that there is less smear -- transients are cleaner and more distinct (by which I mean different sorts of things, different metals or metals vs woods, sound more distinct from one another) and the absence of ringing on the decay of things is very striking -- this then uncovers all sorts of extra details (breathwork, hidden backing vocal lines etc) that the ringing and smears had masked So if I had to guess I'd assume that the Timet material stores less energy than brass or alternatives and this is the reason for the benefit. Note that in my installation this is not a matter of being able to simply tighten the cartridge down more -- as my headshell is some sort of composite material you cannot actually over tighten without deforming it All in all the new screws are a must have with the Palladian (and I think now ship with it?) -- as to whether they'd offer equal benefits from other cartridges who knows -- maybe I'll take the two longer spares I have and see if I can mount them on my Miyajima Zero Mono on my #2 arm -- will report back on what I find ps still no spacer, when I get that I will remount my arm, may even be able to eliminate my sub-arm board completely and thus obviate need for spacer but so far teh Palladian sounds great running horizontal |
Thuchan My definition of good turntable design, includes "isolation", that has been built into its design by its maker, allowing it to be placed on multiple locations. The Döhmann’s Helix table you reference seems to follow this philosophy. A collaborative Australian/American effort. Nikola I said here earlier, when I was freed of the monkey suit, it took 9 months to realize it was gone. Things became more clear. What was happening at the Macro world level was out of my control, including my own government’s "sorry" actions. What was in my control, was my own local family government - at the time made up of Financial Advisors - making decisions on where my investments should go. It took a while to get to the root of this problem and become aware. My own family government was causing some sleepless nights. Something was not right. So I stepped out of my audiophilia nervosa state, fired them, and took control of my own family government. God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. We are in for quite a ride in 2017. The craziest "audio" aspect for me to comprehend these days. Both my main speakers are of British origin, but were sourced from the US when the Canadian dollar was at par and even above for a time. Seems almost unthinkable today. You know, my kids don’t believe me when I tell them mortgage rates used to be 18% when they were born. Only 22 years ago. |
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Ct0517, It seems that the good old times of our very deep exchanges on audio equipment and their side stories are over. Hopefully a motivated and long time analogue user is still reading today a newspaper, not only on new tweaks on digital developments and sports. Yes, these are also interesting. As I was not successful in delivering my Titanium screws to the many countries to be designated to I will give up and return into isolation. Btw. Isolation is a very hot topic right now bringing down all the interferences and disturbances by other sources. Controlling air borne and structural noise is the topic of one of my articles. I am curious what Michael Fremer will tell us on his own observations regarding the Minus-K built in platform of Döhmann’s Helix table. I have sent Nandric a book about the art of turntables. Hopefully he will not reject this one. |
Well I have my free screws - and very nicely presented they are. My wife was just about to try to put them on her ears as jewelry 🙈 As as to the special built for me shim it's still en route somewhere between Bundespost and USPS. I will mount the screws on Friday and report back on this next step on our adventure |
Nandric Nikola - We, Canadians...... do not know how to threaten. So if something I said came off as a threat, it was unintentional. With that we are very good, probably the best in the world at saying, "Sorry". so .. if you have put yourself in a position, that you need to figure out some method, a way, to apologize to your German friends, in order to keep getting free screws. Maybe I can help you with that. Let me know Acman3 Acman IMO - The new Audiogon is not like the old one. The moderators now have more patience, are more open minded and actually give a thread lots of rope, and just delete posts. So more post carnage is very evident yes; but as we can see the thread is still alive. In the old days, the whole thread, if it started going off course too far, would have just been deleted. Fleib Fleib If you are referring to a switch from camel drive? then I can only say and warn, that I hope the courier journey doesn't take those shims through a family of kitties (cat variety) Trust me the shims will never make it. If you don't believe me, read my last system post which attempts to answer the question "Where did my turntable drive system go ?" Now, if I have totally misunderstood your post.... very possible..... I will just blame it all on Wiarton Willie.......tomorrow. Cheers |
Dear Chris, I am already ''screwed'' by the moderators and you threaten me also with those ''free screws''. I expected more support from my former compatriote. BTW I got yesterday an email from Dertonarm but he deed, alas, not mentioned those ''free screws'' (aka ''screws for free'') . I mean those ''titanium kind''. My modesty deed not allow to ask when , if at all, those will be posted.
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acman3 A couple Palladian owners got .....I assume bored.....and tried to identify and solve the world’s problems. The result of this ....my feeling........ is that Nikola will no longer be getting free screws. @Folkfreak - I hope your Palladian shim is not being shipped by camel courier ? Just seems a long time ago that you mentioned it ? Then again this winter is really dragging along. :^( Willie .....better not see his shadow .... |
Dear @thuchan : "
it has an analogue and a digital bass amplification? " first I appreciate to know that finally you and me can have a enriched dialogue with out try to hit one to the other as in those crazy old times. Good, maturity is very important issue in each one human been life. Now, if there is a frequency range where analog has its weakest characteristic is precuisely in the overall bass range and if the signal is generated by the analogue alternative it does not matters what's happening after that signal generation. Problem is not in the speakers/amplifiers but from where comes and is generated the signal. Digital alternative is way superior in the bass management. Of course and as happens in analoge there are bad digital recordings and good ones and ovbiously we are talking of the good ones in both audio worlds.The other main issue is that MUSIC is harmonics, think on this. If any one wants to know in his home audio system how bass should sound he has to listen through digital recordings and if that home audio system has a good overall set up then he will knows is rigth through listen experiences. Regards and enjoy the music, R. |
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@acman3 lets just say a few of the regulars were indulging in some rather off topic historical/political badinage- nothing that bad and quite interesting and well informed but clearly not to the moderators taste back to the Palladian I'm looking forward to having a chance to remount mine with the spacer so I can go "below horizontal" - methinks that s way even better sound lies. The spacer should be in my mailbox tomorrow |
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