The greatest Pop song yet written and recorded.

I agree, "What is Pop music?" is an interesting question, one perhaps without a definitive answer.

It originally referred to songs written in the classic two verses, chorus, bridge (middle 8 in England), third verse, chorus, out form. Or a close approximation of it. Also with a sing along melody and "hooky" chorus. That’s how The Beatles started out, not surprising as they based their music on the American Pop music of the 50’s and early-60’s, with some Rock ’n’ Roll thrown in. They pretty much stuck with that formula through the Rubber Soul album (with some exceptions), after which there were no more rules.

ABBA was obviously a Pop Group, but in my opinion so were The Ramones, and so are Weezer (hooks galore!). The Stones never were, nor were The Yardbirds (though in the 1960’s the British press referred to all the bands---including The Stones, The Who, even Cream---as Pop Groups. That was to differentiate between music for teenagers, and the adult music: Jazz and Classical). The Kinks are a tough call; Ray Davies wrote Pop Songs, but most of them didn’t sound Pop ("Waterloo Sunset" being one notable exception, but there are plenty of others). The line between Rock and Pop is not so clear, and as much an opinion as anything else. Is a "Pop" song performed by a Rock band Pop music, or Rock? Like Van Halen’s version of "California Girls".

When it comes to "God Only Knows", I use the term Pop in reference to the non-Pop music it shares many musical "devices" with: Classical music. It’s certainly not a Rock song, so whatta ya call it? There is a sub-genre amongst Pop music aficionados, called Baroque Pop. I suppose that’s the best we can do. That term works for Brian’s pal Van Dyke Parks too.

bdp24 

yes what do we call or categorize the music that doesn't' fit neatly into a box ?    

Maybe a better question could have been  "my favorite song, and imo the "best" song ever written "  Then I would not have answered with Windy , or Vacation or Walk Like An Egyptian , all Poppy songs but not my quite my favorites and definitely not the best songs ever written .

As all album forum questions I enjoy reading what others think and listen to , I've discovered new music that I wouldn't have otherwise , so thanks for this discussion.

If it ain’t classical and it ain’t jazz (I don’t consider vocal recordings of pop songs by the great songwriters of the early 20th century I posted previously to be ‘jazz’), it’s pop.

- verse/chorus
- repeat
- A middle section (either bridge, solo, interlude, etc.).

Though obviously some exceptions, generally in the 3:00-range.

That applies to everything from Al Jolson to Frank Sinatra to the Carter Family to Jimmie Rodgers to Bill Monroe to Hank Williams to Chuck Berry to James Brown to Kraftwerk to Bob Marley to The Ramones to the Sugarhill Gang.

The more “out-there” part of pop (the prog-y stuff, math metal, Zappa, Beefheart, etc.) is just the outer reaches of pop. It still ain’t classical or jazz. It’s just exploring the farthest outer reaches of the pop universe.

Good one @tylermunns. Yeah, Rock music can just be considered one branch of Pop music. How about Blues? My focus on Pop songs started in the late-60’s, when the album format replaced the 45 RPM single as the dominant format for Pop music.

I heard album after album with no really good songs, which is my first love in non-Classical music. Rock bands in the late-60’s and 70’s were more interested in exploring improvisation (often in pale imitations of Jazz), and in becoming virtuoso musicians, rather than writing good songs. So my attention moved on to singer/songwriters like Randy Newman, Jackson Browne, Neil Young, etc. I reserved my admiration of superior musicianship for the likes of The Band, Ry Cooder, and studio musicians (the L.A. guys of course, but also those in the Muscle Shoals studios---the recording team now known as The Swampers).

And like you, I consider the song "form" (verses, choruses, bridges, etc.) the determining factor in what makes for a Pop song. So when the debut album by The Dwight Twilley Band came out in 1976, I was stoked! They were a Rock ’n’ Roll band, but they wrote fantastic Pop songs, combining Memphis R & R with Merseybeat, an unbeatable combination. Their Sincerely album sounds as exhilarating today as the day it was released. Their follow up Twilley Don’t Mind has some great Pop songs, including the irresistible, hook-filled "Trying To Find My Baby", a great, great Pop song.

And then in 1977 Dave Edmunds’ Get It album appeared, and I discovered "The Master". 😉 Not just a great Rock ’n’ Roll guitarist, but one hell of a producer. He recreates the Sun Records sound like no other, as well as Spector’s Wall-Of-Sound. His albums with the Rockpile team (Nick Lowe, Billy Bremner, Terry Williams) are as good as Rock ’n Roll gets, with the emphasis on songs.

These days there are more good songwriters active than ever before. My musical taste leads me to the Americana genre, which is filled with great songwriters and singers, creating music as good as I have ever heard. It's a great time to be alive!

Lots of good and thoughtful selections.  I vote for "Dirty Water" by the Standells (I hear you rolling your eyes out there).  Great rhythm, good guitar hook, simple lyrics and it sounded good on a portable transistor radio or in the car, where people listened when it was released.  And it still sounds good. 

I consider Stairway To Heaven the best song ever written, but while it was played extensively on the radio, I consider it album rock rather than pop rock. Pop music is not complex. I consider it mood music more than something that can be meticulously analyzed. As a 17-year-old going to the ocean I listened to The Beach Boys' Endless Summer non-stop and this is the age group that most pop is written for. Most people remain emotionally attached to the music they listened to during ages 15-20. That didn't happen to me. For pop rock, nothing gets my happy emotions going as much as I'm Walking On Sunshine by Katrina and the Waves. No, it's not complex, but no pop song is complex.

Miles Davis knows:  it’s either “Bye Bye Blackbird”, “My Funny Valentine”, or “Time after Time”.  

Honorable mentions (cuz Miles didn’t cover them): “Daniel” by Elton John, and “Angel From Montgomery” by John Prine.

@jssmith My "happy tune" is "Rythm of the Night" by El Debarge. 😊

@mdalton 

Do you remember that episode of Seinfeld where Elaine’s boyfriend would suddenly enter an impenetrable trance-like state whenever he heard, “Desperado?”  
I kind of turn into that guy whenever I hear “Time After Time” by Cyndi Lauper.

@bdp24 
I suppose I consider the records of Charley Patton, Leadbelly, Son House etc. etc…to the records of Elmore James, Lightnin’ Hopkins, Howlin’ Wolf etc. etc…and the records of The Carter Family, Jimmie Rodgers, etc. etc…to the records of Bill Monroe, Bob Wills, Hank Williams etc. etc…all in conjunction with the pop masterpieces of the early-20th century and gospel music to be the primary building blocks of modern pop music, or, perhaps, the “rock n’ roll era” (‘55-to-present day).

@tylermunns 

That’s hilarious!  And “Time After Time” is a seriously underrated song.  Miles was a master of melody, so he got it,

Carnival by Natalie Merchant

"Thriller"

Michael Jackson

Mommas and Pappas. Monday Monday and California dreaming. 

In the general era most of these songs are falling in, the definition of 'pop' is a good question. I tend to attribute four basic genre styles to that period. Hard rock was starting to come of age with songs like Steppenwolf's 'Born To Be Wild', and Jimi Hendrix's 'Purple Haze'. Because of the Vietnam war, almost all the popular groups had politically motivated protest songs that pushed an agenda. British progressive rock was also in it's infancy during this period. The last group is where pop resides. They were the songs that had no real agenda and were most often about the trials and tribulations of young love. They were the songs that made you reach for the volume knob and the ones you loved to sing along with even if you couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. They were the ones that even got our rock hating older generation tapping their toes when they thought no one was looking! Any songs considered rock and roll before 1965 were just that; good old rock and roll. No agendas, no messages, just a new generation exploring a new style of music. We really did get to live during one of the most interesting periods of musical history. It's where our hobby/obsession with audiophilia was born as well. 

It seems that successful "pop" music is that which firmly rivets itself to the popular culture of the day, The way we feel about ourselves, the world ... and each other. There are several "tests" that determine how well songs will stand up to the test of time.

The Weddng Reception test:

How often is it played at wedding receptions? Which songs impacted lives, and relationships? Being danceable is a key element here. God Only Knows gets a 2.7 on the "dance scale." Then again, Suite Judy Blue Eyes and A Day in a Life are not on the mobile DJ’s most requested list, either.

The Shower Test:

Can you sing it in the shower? Or, would you even want to? God Only Knows is not the easiest song to sing in the shower. Nor are the vast majority of BeeGees songs. Most mortals can sing 97% of Unchained Melody in the shower. It’s that 3% that makes you happy no one is around to listen. There’s also the special list of songs you can successfulyl sing while highly intoxicated. Quicksilver Messenger Service’s Mona tops my list. I’m sure you have your own.

God Only Knows is beautiful on a level possibly unmatched in popular music history. It also make have catapulted itself to a level where it can be best appreciated by music geeks (or, those who drive the speed limit, or use the stovetop instead of the microwave). Patience is not a requirement for popular music appreciation. In my early 20’s, I painstakingly painted my car.  While it was quite obvious to me that it was, indeed, Lime Gold Candy Pearl, most people saw it as a pretty green Camaro. As long as it made them smile and not compelled to take 80 grit sandpaper to it ... mission accomplished.  God Only Knows may be viewed as just a beautiful song by many.  I made a reference to "we're ants on a Rembrandt" in a prior topic, where ants are scurrying around seeing textures and colors change beneath their feet, totally unaware of the masterpiece below them.  This may be the case with God Only Knows where "the masses" hear chord changes and beautiful harmonies, but not aware of the music masterpiece in front of them.

I think alot of us just don’t want to work very hard to appreciate popular music. It reminds me of a Management Boot Camp conducted by a guy named Harry Friedman. Harrry asked the audience a question, and received a high detailed response from a participant. After several seconds of quiet, respectful, listening, Harry interrupted her and stated: "Save me the labor pains. Just give me the baby!" I think alot of us "just want the baby" when it relates to popular music.

4 guys from Wichita had some profound thoughts about their music. They referenced the term "hooks" to describe elements of the music that got the listener’s attention and pulled them into the song. Carry On My Wayward Son has 4 such hooks -- per the sony writer.

As always I appreciate @bdp24 ’s deep dive into music. Some of the chords of God Only Knows are "half diminished", but I feel a litte smarter after viewing the video.

Thanks for sharing.

Well, I’m pretty much an ignoramus regarding music theory, though much more conversant in literature/poetry.  But to me, a great pop song requires both a great melody, and great lyrics/depth of meaning. So, at least by my standards, “God Only Knows”, which has pretty pedestrian lyrics, can never quite achieve greatness.

You are right about text....

I guess the best pop music and song is the last one on the hit chart...😁

Sometimes though there is a motivation in the song that make it more meaningful that to be just another hit...

I like this one even it it is more folk than pop :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSA-SY5Hro&t=99s

Anyway they give the Nobel to Dylan for being a bit more than the writer of songs on the hit chart...

These days we need meaning at least more than just rythm and melody...

Well, I’m pretty much an ignoramus regarding music theory, though much more conversant in literature/poetry. But to me, a great pop song requires both a great melody, and great lyrics/depth of meaning. So, at least by my standards, “God Only Knows”, which has pretty pedestrian lyrics, can never quite achieve greatness.

@tylermunns 

Thanks for that list of Carole King songs. It’s incredible and I’ll be listening to them all week long.

@bdp24 

Thanks for initiating this thread. I’m enjoying it thoroughly!

I haven’t the understanding of music theory to approach a list like this with the learned perspective some of you bring to this discussion. I do, however, consider more than a few songs to be perfect pop songs, songs that rip me out of the world and into their own magical realm. Here are a few off the top of my head:

1. Beach Boys, God Only Know; A Day in the Life of a Tree; Feel Flow
2. Harry Nilsson, driving along
3. Kinks, Waterloo Sunset
4. Norman Greenbaum, jubilee
5. Jimi Hendrix, wait till tomorrow; one rainy wish
6. Beatles, in my life; one after 909
7. Van Morrison, sweet thing
8. Jazz butcher, Sweet water
9. impressions, people get ready
10. Curtis Mayfield, Move On Up
11. Zombies, tell her no
12. Small Faces, Itchicoo park
13. Simon and Garfunkel, Kathy’s Song
14. Brian Auger & Trinity, A Word About Color
15. Thunderclap Newman, Something in the Air
16. Funkadelic, Can You Get to That

And on and on! Haven’t even touched the American songbook, 50s RnR, Motown, Stax/Volt, Fame studios, blues, etc. Thankfully, there’s lots of songs to love!

@hce1
“Thanks for that list of Carole King songs.”

You bet! 😉
My (nerdy) pleasure.

“It’s incredible and I’ll be listening to them all week long.”

I love to hear that!

@tylermunns theres a great obscure Carole King song called creepin midnight on the s/t album seatrain (70s hippie band that got some brief attention. Check it out and lettuce know.

@loomisjohnson: That Seatrain album (their second) is a real good one. Also on it is the first version of the Lowell George song "I’m Willin" I ever heard.

The album was produced by George Martin, and features the second line-up of band members, now including fiddler Richard Greene (formerly of The Jim Kweskin Jug Band, from which also came Maria Muldaur) and Peter Rowan, a pretty well known Bluegrass guitarist and singer. Richard and Peter had both earlier been in Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Boys. Excellent musicians.

@bdp24 

We certainly agree on that one! I have been listening to their eponymous disc since I was in high school and saw them at the Schaefer Music Festival in NYC. It's a real gem.