Tekton Double Impacts

Correct on the 2170 in terms of the finer "DAC" details.   I am saying to let the 2170 do its total thing🙂

teajay, Thanks for the update! Your access to 3 Tektons will give us a valid insight into each model's sonics and help us make a good choice.

Hey everybody,

 The Ulfberht's are a significant step above the DI's in their performance, yes I know they cost 9K more, so my is hunch with better drivers and internal parts the DI SE will be a more refined/higher level performer then the DI's.  Eric, would not come out with a more costly version if he did not believe he could improve on the performance of the original model.

I will have the pleasure of hearing them in person when Mike Kay gets them in and delivered to his customer, Ezra, who is a dear friend and lives a few miles away.  By the way, the array of small drivers will not be from ScanSpeak, but another very highly regarded European OEM company.

I'll be in the lucky position to hear all three models and then can give you feedback regarding the differences between the models.  I have already submitted my review on the Ulfberht's to hometheaterreview.com and I'll let you guys know when it will go up on the website.

If you are running your DI's or Ulf's with tubes I highly recommend you take a look at the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier which is driving the Ulf's in my system superlatively across the sonic board.  Remember this SET is 22 watts per channel so you "power hounds" would be very pleased with ultimate dB levels and grunt/control of dynamics on your DI's.

  

mac, The Lyngdorf doesn't actually have a "DAC". It takes digital in, translates PCM to PWM, and uses that to drive the mosfet outputs. Bill and James are spot on about the 2170, use as a one box "does it all" or why bother. 

Will the DI SE"s  be  a slight improvement or  big jump over the standard DI's?

Can't find  any info or specs for the SE's?

Cheers.......

Mac - put a tube amp decal on the 2170.

I didn't realize the Lyngdorf had a DAC also. Very interesting. So someone like me who only listens to Redbook CD's would only need to add a transport? How slick is that? 

Grannyring, you would consider the Lyngdorfs tone, timbre and texture to match that of a good SET? Does it also have the dynamic slam SS amps are known for? Could it possess the best of both worlds? That's quite amazing and really has me thinking......but what that tube glow I like so much? Guess I could just plug a tube amp in for the lighting effect :)

It is almost pointless to use it any other way. As a standalone DAC or using external amps the performance is mediocre and defeats the purpose of the design basically. I never had any luck experimenting. 

An additional point on the 2170 to get the most out of it. It should be used as the one box solution it is. To simply use
it as an amplifier, or as preamp with room correction only, or using an external DAC with it misses the greatness of the whole in my opinion.

The ability to lose all of the additional cabling and take advantage of the very short signal paths and inherent synergy of this one box solution is one of the reasons why it sounds so darn good.

I tried hooking up all manner of external amplifiers to the 2170 including tube amps and even their own model 2400 amplifier. In the end the 2170 sounded best on its own.

I am trying out a new DAC and mic in my videos:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynDugSR0Wuw

Let me know if the sound quality is better for you guys. Enjoy!

David, Computer room correction with Live Dirac has been a revelation in my system. I am excited to try room correction with tube amplification. W4S ST-500 mkii class D didn't work our for me, but I would have much prefered room corrected class D to the uncorrected Parasound. I don't doubt the Lyngdorf sounds good to you. Room correction is a powerful tool.

Charles, thanks for all your commentary.  I finally pulled the trigger on a used Raven Blackhawk. The LM508ia demo helped me understand your sonic descriptions of  "fleshed out" and "meat on the bones". Had there not been a used deal available I may have stepped up to the 48 watt SET or the Pass XA 30.8. The money saved will allow for GIK treatments and some better cable.

Has anyone here with tube amps tried room correction? Does it hurt more than help a well treated room? Maybe tone, timbre and presence is sacrificed for imaging, focus and clarity. I've read that room treatments before attempting calibration provide much better results than correcting a bad room to start with.



 

I ran the TDAI-2170 as a secondary amp from 2015-2016. It’s greatest strength was bringing quality bass out of every speaker big or small. It was successful being paired with everything from PSB T3’s to B&W 803 D3’s. The results with standmount speakers was very impressive. It should be pretty interesting with Double Impacts. I replaced it with a Devialet D-Premier but the room perfect was (and still is) missed.

http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/1192358-lyngdorf-tdai2170-integrated-amp.jpg

Bill, You are spot on about no buzz about the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170? The reviews are exceptional, RoomPerfect is top shelf, and the Direct Digital amp topology works great, takes HDMI in, integrated amps are "in" currently, why no love for the 2170? I hope the dealer in CO brings one to RMAF. It's exciting to hear about SE versions, and I'm really looking forward to teajay's Ulf review. 

I'm getting my mini-Ulfs in white and installing colored lights in the ceilings when I get the speakers set in place. The lights will shine on the speakers. 

That way, in the dark, I can have any color speakers I want! 

@david_ten I have already picked my color in the event it ever happens.  There is a post on the Tekton FB page of a DI in a color called spanish tile.  The nicest I have seen yet.  Not sure if it is an automotive color or an upcharge color, but here's a pic:  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10208069651727928&set=p.10208069651727928&type=3

Hi Rob, 
I can understand your dilemma regarding the Tekton line,  numerous choices with degrees of overlap with in a given price range. How does one make clear delineation amongst them? Rob I can state unequivocally that the DI with the 300.00 dollar upgrade option is a very good sounding speaker. The question is how much better are the upscale Tekton models 😊
Charles 

Hello David,
I appreciate your reply regarding the somewhat mysterious Double Impact SE.  Tom will go to Chicago to hear these speakers when Audio Archon receives their pair.  He'll be able to provide the essential details and listening impression at that point. I didn't realize that the SE has a different cabinet. This could turn out to  be a considerabley different speaker from the standard DI. This is an intriguing speaker. 
Charles 

Hi charles1dad
I will report my findings should I pull the trigger on the Lyngdorf. Yes, I believe our ears and listening habits are extremely similar. Tone, timbres, texture, natural organic sound come first, other musical attributes next. Growing up with all the musicians in family, knowing what music sounds like live make it hard for me, or my wife to listen to a playback system that does not get us some semblance of the real thing. I do admire audio designers that give you much bang for the buck such Eric Akexander. On the other hand in 50 years I've heard more than my share of expensive audio; but nothing ever topped in my experience as very young dude one relative playing his L5 Gibson guitar with one of the greatest acts in Rock n' Roll live as well as in the studio.  Best, mikirob 

Also, I'm really in a fitful cogitation state, do I buy a DI, Baby Ulf? Sell my lesser stuff to relieve financial sting since I really have too much audio equipment as is.

David -
That is interesting. As Eric (and others) say, there is no replacement for displacement -- which is why I can't wait to see how he solves that on the mini-ulfs. I am curious though... With the price of the SE only a short stones throw from the mini-ulf, I am curious as to why you chose the DI SE over the mini-ulf. As you know, I went with the mini, so I'm curious as to what criteria you used. Not sure if you are up for the extra wait, but since he did a Ferrari color for me, there is a gloss griggio (grey) color that I saw that I really liked. Not sure if you will or not, but I thought it was really nice. Congrats!!!

Mike from Audio Archon should be receiving a pair of SE's very soon, if he already hasn't, for a customer. So hopefully he can answer some of the questions regarding the specific components used. I didn't realize the cabinet is deeper......cool. Looks like Eric didn't limit himself at all in designing the SE as it would have been real easy to keep it the same size as the standard DI. 

@charles1dad   Charles, I do not have the specifics. All internals are upgraded (wire, caps, etc.) and he is using different drivers. The cabinet is deeper. I didn't ask since my knowing (at least at this point) wasn't critical to the decision.

I believe Terry @teajay  may know. I'm not sure about this but I believe they are not Scanspeak but another European brand.

Congrats David. I'm VERY interested in the Double Impact SE's. Looking forward to hearing your impressions of them and what brand of drivers is in them. 

I believe the PMD line includes high gloss paint? If so, the options are limitless. I have the Mercedes Diamond Black which has a bit of metal flake that is nice but needs bright lighting to see it. Whenever I get the SE's I'll try getting them in BMW Phoenix Green, a bright metallic M3 color. Not for the faint of heart! The gloss Porsche Gray is very classy looking.....or the BMW Mineral Gray. Whatever color you decide upon I bet they'll sound great. 

There is no hype on the Lyngdorf. None. Near nobody talks about it. I mention it here and there, as a voice in the wilderness, in a fair and complete manner. What I hype I can assure all is good, no great. Been there, done that with more gear and combos than most over the years and have context for my statements. Even I don’t hype it, but I do point it out as a real alternative based on its real bleeding edge technology.

Even if a piece of gear is objectively great it does not follow that everyone will love it.  That is one reason we see so much used gear for sale including Lyngdorf, Coincident, Berning, Atmasphere, and all others. 

Hello David, 
Congratulations on ordering the DI SE version, I'm curious about this model.  Exactly what are the upgrades that distinguish it from the non SE?
Does the SE use Scanspeak or some different brand of drivers?
Charles 

Since this is a Tekton thread.... : )

I've doubled down on the Double Impacts, literally. 

Placed my order for the Double Impact SE this morning.

Eric is suggesting a more interesting (than black) color for the finish. I currently have Soft Grey DIs which are working very well in the room so I was thinking of something in the light grey palette BUT am very open to suggestions. I remember that pair of orange DIs looking very sweet.

Thoughts? Color suggestions?

mac48025,
I have no doubt the CSL/Frankenstein combo is quite special.  Hopefully, you are able to find a preamp/amp combo you can live with on perpetual basis.

Charles1dad,
I don't know how I could get the CSL/P2688 to audition side by side.  I want to see what the others say about the Lyngdorf and go from there as it might save me some money.

Musikmann,
I have read very favorable comments concerning the Melody P2688 Line Stage. I believe that it is most likely an exceptionally fine sounding component and it or the Coincident Statement Line Stage would be an asset to your system. It would of course be ideal if you could compare these two directly. As Tom and I can attest to,  this  answers many questions. 
Charles

Hi Mikirob,
Do me a favor, if you do decide to audition or buy a Lyngdorf 2170 please let me know your listening impressions.   You and I seem to approach and listen to music in a very similar manner.  I'm opened minded to the new and different and have given many types of audio products a listen.

Often I find that the hype and promises don't quite hit the market and that hyperbole is alive and well.  To be perfectly fair the Lyngdorf could be a bird of a different feather and that would be quite a special development. 

I do not doubt what others hear testify to but I don't know how they listen or what they seek or prefer musically.  I "think" that I have some reasonable idea of what draws you into music on an emotional level and this aspect is key for me.

I've listened to audio components highly praised by others that were not nearly as impressive to me. I'm not suggesting by any means my ears or listening skills are superior to anyone else,  rather it is a very personal experience and I well know what I like. 

If the Lyngdorf the can really expose and get to the musical soul and emotional connecting beauty similar to what I currently experience this would be something major for a one box product.  You never know. 
Charles 

schw06
Prayers with you, I'm normally in Boca Raton, but my wife and I currently are at our other house in GA, yeah, right on the coast. Likely headed to interior Ga...

I really enjoyed reading your post. Grannyring knows his stuff; if I can pull myself away from tubes I owe it to myself to try the Lyngdorf 2170. Best, mikirob

Muzikmann,

i believe the CSL/Frankenstein combination is quite special, enjoying a synergy that makes them tough to beat. What baffles me is how good the MZ2 and Frank's sounded in my system. It didn't sound lifeless at all at my place yet it was clearly less dynamic and alive in Charles' system. The more I think about it the more baffling it becomes. Could the speakers be the difference? Now I'm wondering what the CSL/Frankenstein combo would sound like with my DI's. Even better than the MZ2 and Frank's sounded? I'd have to imagine so. Yikes, I didn't think it could sound better. 

For now I'll have fun trying the Consinance 2A3 in my system. Thanks to teajay for letting me try it out. The Consonance or Aric amps could be a great option to tide me over until I get a big boy amp.......unless I get really lucky and either of those amps turns out to be my forever amp.  Wouldn't that be nice?

@ Charles1dad & mac48025,

I truly appreciate your feedback on the LTA MZ2-S and the CSL comparison. I have the CSL and the Melody P2688 (also based on the 101D tube) on my want list. I was hoping the MZ2-S would equal or better the CSL so that I can save some money. I guess if one has a small budget, the MZ2-S is no brainer, however, if one wants something higher, the CSL should be considered. The Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 has also piqued my interest and I have to find a way to audition one.

Thank you.

Evolvist, David and I were both stunned at the improvement realized after running the Room Perfect set-up. I had the same reaction in two different rooms and with the Harbeth 40.1 and AZ Crescendo speakers. One of my rooms was already well "treated" with all manner of room treatments, but the room correction just took it to the next level of enjoyment.

Fancinsting technology that will only get better!

P. S. - I had previously slagged off mic-based room correction, but I've since had a chance of heart after hearing a system in a pro setup. With acoustic room treatment as part of the equation, the Lyngdorf becomes the icing on the cake. 

@Aniwolfe - Be safe, be cool and be dry. My heart goes out to you having just experienced Harvey. Mother nature can be one scary mother. 

As to the Lyngdorf...I plan on getting another unit in to compare to my Linn KDS/3. I've had one before, and it was excellent, only I wanted to get away from USB. However, I'm now in a position to have shootout between the two. The Linn is 3xs as much. Imagine how much I'll save if I could sell off my Linn. 

We'll see. I have to get the mini-Ulfs in first. 

Nick

Aniwolfe:
Prayers are with you. We just went through it down here in Houston but thankfully where I was did not get hit very hard. Just constant rain. Hopefully the same will happen to you, but with the storm being even stronger than ours and more than 400 miles wide and a state less than 200 miles wide, I am concerned. Just try to stay safe. Are you evacuating?

David, great point that the 2170 is a nice SS option for some. It has been said many times that the DI speaker affords its owners many system options. That is certainly an audiophile’s dream!

Aniwolfe, prayers and best wishes for your family, home, and community in the face of this storm. 

@david_ten Just to clarify I don't find the MZ2-S lacking in tone but in comparison to the 2170 I find the 2170 to have deeper tonal saturation (more vivid). The difference isn't night and day but certainly noticeable. That difference might be negated by a tube change or power cable swap etc... and I don't want to take anything away from the LTA. You get a lot for your money with it. For those lucky individuals with Tung Sol round plates and unobtanium tubes, I'm sure they were able to extract more from the unit than I got. That being said, I'm in a place in life where my time is short and being able to turn on the music and be instantly in a warmed up system (I leave the 2170 on all the time) allows me to enjoy more brief, spontaneous listening sessions.
   I just wanted to give folks that are looking at pairing the DI's up with solid state a good option from someone who typically does not prefer solid state and most certainly does not typically prefer class D.

Aniwolfe -

Great news! I envy you. That 2170 is something that really interests me. I am more HT though so I guess it would be the MP50, but then I would need 6 of their amps. Just too much for me, but I love the technology in the 2170. Let us know what you think when you get it.

I should be receiving my Lyngdorf 2170 today. I don’t have my Tekton Electrons yet, but I am excited to hear how this amp performs with my current set up. I also did buy this amp because of Grannyring’s endorsement. I don’t want to thank Grannyring just yet, since I have not heard it :)

Tonight my family unfortunately will be finalizing our preparations for this monster of a storm headed right for us in Florida. I imagine my electricity will be out for a few to several days. I will update as soon as I can. Take care everyone!

Hi David  (schw05),
Very nice and informative post! I have no doubt that you have a wonderful sounding audio system.  I suspect it will keep you very happy and content for years. It seems that the Lyngdorf is quite an achievement and surpasses most class D amplifiers I've heard thus far. Congratulations. 
Charles 

Thanks so much for sharing your impressions schw06. Very insightful and educational. This thread keeps getting better all the time. 

The DI's offer so many amp options that it's refreshing and confounding at the same time. There are countless options it seems! The Lyngdorf is very intriguing, which isnt surprising as it's pretty much a universal truth around here that grannyring, along with many others, really knows good audio. I'm enjoying tubes too much for now to switch away from them, but should that ever change I'll be looking at Lyngdorf. 

Thanks for sharing sch06. The DI speakers are so very intriguing to me and I am sure they would be great with the Lyngdorf.

Another Aphile I am corresponding with uses the Lyngdorf 2170 and is selling a very high end, well reviewed, and expensive set of DHT monoblock amps. He has the DI speakers also.

What folks have to know is Lyngdorf started the whole digital amp thing long ago and does not approach their designs like ICE, Hypex, Pascal, and the like. They have engineered a completely different approach so they cannot be lumped in with other Class D amps. Forget any and all preconceived notions about Class D or simple one box solutions with the 2170. Plus the room correction, dac, and SOTA volume control are all part of the package that just works beautifully together.

Care must be taken with a good quality power cord/conditioning to get the most out of the 2170. The Core Power Technology products are great with the 2170 as well as Furutech Alpha Nano power cables. Also, the unit should be left on and not in standby for best sound. It only pulls some 20 watts so no big deal. It runs very cool and only weights 19 pounds. No tube expense, heat, expensive tube upgrades,  and replacing. No worries about little ones touching the amp and getting burned or playing music 10 hours a day, every day.

Just another option for those wanting a simple and beautiful sounding rig solution.

Lastly, for those of you comfortable with mods and letting go of your warranty😁 I know of and performed a mod that yields stunning results with this unit. I even let Lyngdorf know about because I was so excited. Doubt they are as excited as me however! Ha!

Enjoy your DI speakers!

@schw06  Great Post!  Thanks for adding your detailed findings to this wonderfully educational thread. I'm happy that you have found something that works so well for you for both 2Ch and HT and is easy for your family to enjoy and use as well. That's a heck of a combo and value!

What stood out to me was your comment about tonal saturation lacking with the LTA combo. I would not expect this. Do you believe this is because of application of Room Perfect and not other factors? Did you compare without Room Perfect engaged with the TDAI? Thanks.

Adding the ZOTL 10 to the mix was a huge upgrade with the MZ2-S and really had much better presence, imaging, and PRAT but still lacked the tonal saturation of the Lyngdorf.

schw06, Thanks for your impressions of the TDAI-2170, especially with a bias against it being so good. I'm not surprised about the soundstage/imaging being stellar as RoomPerfect is top notch, but your findings about tonal saturation and rich texture being better than the LTA combo is eye opening. I really want to try the TDAI- 2170 in my system soon.

Charles and mac48025,
I figured that those would be the results. 
 You both described what differences I heard between my preamp and the mz2.  

Joe

   Just to make everything a little more confusing for those considering amplification options for the DI's I thought I would add my findings to the discussion. I purchased the DI's as a downsizing move to integrate my room back to home theater and needed a speaker line with center and surrounds to add later but was hoping for a speaker that could also still satisfy the 2 channel lover inside me (Thank you Kdude66 for your time and knowledge). At heart I prefer tubes and/or simple electronics that have less parts and less opportunity to wreak havoc on the audio signal (NOS dacs, SEP amps, Vinnie Rossi LIO etc...). That being said I have known Bill D (Grannyring) for a long time and he has consistently extolled the virtues of his Lyngdorf TDAI-2170. I ended up buying it because I knew I could plug my blu ray, cable box, and fire stick into it and my wife and kids would be able to figure out how to watch movies without my help. It was a simple and elegant solution that was reasonably affordable. I also purchased Linear Tube Audio MZ2-S and got to hear the ZOTL 10 from a friend (and briefly owned the ZOTL40) as the basis of a tube based system for critical listening.
   To reiterate, I had zero intention of using the Lyngdorf as my main amplifier but after it burned in and with the room correction in place, I am dumbfounded by the sound coming from it...vivid tone, rich texture, presence, 3 dimensionality, air around instruments, fantastic imaging, great woofer control, and an absolutely silent background. I have had the misfortune of owning way too many class D amps in the past and don't think one of them has lasted more than 60 days in my system so I was not expecting what I'm getting from the Lyngdorf.  I must give a big shout out to Grannyring and have to agree with all his praise for the unit. I can say that I prefer it by a very wide margin compared to the MZ2-S driving the DI's (better tone, presence, imaging, and bottom end control). Adding the ZOTL 10 to the mix was a huge upgrade with the MZ2-S and really had much better presence, imaging, and PRAT but still lacked the tonal saturation of the Lyngdorf.
   I have taken care creating the theater room and it was built on the Fibonacci progression with dedicated circuits, and innovative room treatments hand made and installed by Dale Pitcher of Intuitive Design. Even with that, I must admit that the improvement in sound when the room correction is on is huge and definitely confirms that the room and meticulous setup play an enormous role in the quality of sound you get.
   The DI's are incredibly revealing of the differences in what you feed them and the environment they are playing in. I have seen pictures of Teajay's setup (Thank you for being a fearless kick ass reviewer) and know my setup and speaker placement is significantly different as is the construction and composition of room materials and digital source. I also know the music he tends to gravitate toward isn't the mainstay of what I listen to so I'm not surprised at all we have different preferences.  I also appreciate Charles1dad's feedback that adds to the collective experience. I admire anyone that can find audio bliss and stay there as long as he has.
   For me, the Lyngdorf experience has really opened my eyes to just how much the room influences what's coming from your speakers and expect that because of that room interaction, there will likely be great variation in what people prefer to feed the DI's.
   I do hope this thread continues to be educational for those interested in the speakers and doesn't get sidetracked by those with negative agendas.
David

I would say that you can not stereotype the sound character of a specific tube type,  for example the 300b is "romantic ". This can be misleading due to oversimplification. The critical determinant is the level of implementation of the amplifier. 

Yes each type of tube has sonic characteristics that distinguish one from another but this factor can be overstated as well.  You can listen to 5 different 300b amplifiers and recognize that you could sort them out and  rank each one based on sound quality.  The 300b and "any" tube type^can successfully play multiple music genres if design and implementation are high caliber. 

The same is true of transistor amplifiers.  Krell, Bryston, Pass Labs ,McIntosh etc. all sound distinctly different from each other  despite all being solid state. This is why actually listening to the audio product is such a relevant point. 

It's very difficult to avoid discussing amplifiers when discussing speakers,  so critical is the matching of the two items. 
Charles 

Wow, all of this tube amp talk really blows my mind. I mean, it's all really Tekton talk, if we're go by the premise that the DIs, maybe the Ulfs, and who knows about the mini-Ulfs, and near perfect conduits for your upstream gear, yes?

Okay, so what now? Heh.

When I went to Raven Audio, I was really shown that a valve amp could be just as quick as solid state. I liked that, plus there was a little extra magic, a little more ease to the brain with tubes.

But then you hear, or read things like, the 300B tube is "romantic" and good for jazz, or classical, maybe not so much classic rock, and forget about metal.

Then folks say yadda yadda about the 2a3, and now even the KT-120, and I'm thinking to myself, "Okay, then what's a good all around great tube set that will thrill all of music, and not just certain genres?" Does any animal like that even exists, and just as quick as what I heard at Raven?

Hmmm...many things to ponder as I await my mini-Ulfs.