I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Respectfully, you're car analogy is flawed. Here's an accurate comparison and frankly it's how I roll, design, think, live, and create.
The link below contains a car that costs $99K than anyone can own. This car is built less than 2 miles from my facility - I see the cars on the road here. This car, in the hands of the right team owner and driver will go toe-to-toe with every multi-million dollar super car ever built - period - end of the discussion!
Personally, I want to go as fast as hell and I want to do it right; for this purpose... there's nothing better. This car costs $100K and a super Ferrari costs $3,000,000. What gives??!! I say Ferrari has it ALL WRONG not Kirkham. Furthermore, I could literally bolt in a lightweight aluminum power-plant producing in excess of 1600 horsepower into this car for and additional $95K - for a total investment under $200K. I could do all of the work alone, and I could do it in a day or two of labor. Respectfully, what would you guess a 1600bhp Ferrari engine would set a guy back... and could he do the work alone?!
The above analogy is spot-on and it's how I approach audio. In other words... no one needs to spend crazy money to get the best sound out there.
There is a snob factor in both. I used to be a car collector. Had like 18 european cars at one time. Lots of snobs. If its an expensive car it must be better than an inexpensive car. And look at how much MY car cost!
I see lots of it in hi-fi too. Right now the Alfa is getting some reviewers to say that it is the best handling sedan made. However, that can't be right because there are more expensive sedans out there. Silly reviewers. We don't even need them. Just look at the price tags. It saves everyone lots of effort. And it helps the snobs keep score. I don;t need to drive any cars or listen to any speakers. I just have to know how much they cost. Keeps things very tidy.
So from your car analogy I guess I can assume a Rolex keeps time better than a Casio. Not sure what sports cars have to do with speakers. One is a complex mechanical machine whose performance can be fully be measured and explained.
Whoa! Where did that come from. Someone sells a Porsche GT3 and gets a nice little hot hatch for 20% of the price is making a sensible decision. The cheaper little hot hatch is adequate and much better value. Totally rational. Sensible decision.
The incredulous claim is the owner claiming a month later that the little hot hatch performs better than the GT3 and everything else on the high end market.
Any reviewer that prefers the sound of audio gear that is vastly less expensive than the uber expensive gear lacks credibility?
If expensive cars outperform less expensive cars then expensive audio gear must outperform less expensive gear?
These points don't sound ridiculous?
Btw, your silence is deafening. You fail to share your personal listening experience of the DI's that allow you to make the satement that any reviewer that expresses an opinion that the DI's outperform speakers costing many times more lacks credibility. Please, share your wealth of experience with the DI's that allow you to state they can't sound as good as more expensive speakers.
I admire Terry (Teajay) for comparing Double Impact 3k, to those more expensive speakers, Because some owners of expensive speakers, will not take it or they will become defensive on their purchase, I totally understand that...BUT for me if this Double Impact are better than my Andra I, I would be very happy, because it will benefit me, I will end up having two good speakers, iam too open minded to just be greaful on Eric new design speaker....with respect to Shadorne , I respect Terry more after the Double Impact review....my question is would other stereo magazine will let the reviewer say what Terry’s finding that this Double Impact is much better than much more expensive one? My own guess is no....
A reviewer can prefer what they want but making ridiculous claims destroys their credibility. The car analogy is clear. A cheap but sporty little car does not outperform all the best high end cars in the world no matter if it may be much better value for going from A to B.
Tekton DI may be great value. DI is the world's best speaker regardless of price NOT.
So any reviewer that prefers an audio component over a vastly more expensive one has no credibility? The status quo, rubber stamp positive reviews of the big name, big money products lack credibility in my eyes.
Now onto the real question shadorne, which has been asked previously, just what actual listening experience of the DI's do you have? Mine are painted in Mercedes Diamond Black, I suppose that will make them sound better? 🤑
Thanks Mac48025. You should probably also look at the Berning amp using the 6b4g tube. It’s zero feedback class A ZOTL amp and uses quite a bit of the technology found in his uber expensive 211/845 amp. The 6b4g is basically a 2a3 in an octal. In the past I have owned a 2a3 amp with Dave Slage nickel based output transformers, nickel based interstage transformers and chokes.
In the Berning 64bg amp you get all the magic of the 2a3.
He sells this amp direct. It’s a hand made amp. So you don’t get a great looking finished product but that’s more than made up with the quality of the sound. Incidentally this is the amp Berning uses for his personal listening.
These reviewers have lost all credibility same as if Top Gear said that a Fiat Arbath is as good as a Porsche 911 GT3 or any number of high end performance cars.
Congrats premnath. Like you I value the opinions of teajay, Mike and Charles and it's led to some great purchases on my part, with the DI SE's being the latest and I'm anxiously awaiting their arrival. The DI's are the best soundings speaker I've owned to date and I look forward to hearing the SE's in my system.
David, I believe Aric is up for building just about any tube amp you might want and more importantly he's capable of doing so. I absolutely love his Transcend KT 120 but just might have him build me a 2A3 SET for something different.
Hi Premnath, Congratulations on getting the Double Impact SE and I believe that they will mate in excellent fashion with your amplifier. No regrets in my opinion.
Hi Walter, Your Line Magnetic 508ia with the SE versions? I honestly believe this would be an extraordinary pairing, no doubt whatsoever 😊 Charles
Don't have the DI's but just took delivery of their Enzo XL's. I'm still in the process of experimenting with different positioning, trying different feet...etc but I can say this from first hand experience, brand new and right out of the box they sound great and sound as good as other speakers I have heard costing 10X as much. I imagine they are only going to get better with age and proper adjustments. Paid less than $2000 for them so I'm sure there are audiophiles out there who won't even consider them because something that cheap can't possibly be good. I had a budget of $15,000 for new speakers but decided to give these a chance because I couldn't ignore the number of rave reviews all over the internet. The remaining $13000 I still have is still in my bank account and not someone else's.
@manati I enjoyed reading your write-up on your new DIs. Thanks for sharing your system and your experience. Great remark regarding "The law of maximizing return"
Hi Charles, Ordinarily, I would make the same assumption, especially with a member with Shadorne's lengthy track record here. On the other hand, the "Tekton backlash" seems to have inspired quite a lot of comments made by people who admit that they have never heard the speakers. Strange and curious behavior, I'd say. Hopefully, Shadorne will give us the benefit of us experience.
In the meantime, I am leaning toward auditioning the SE, if Eric will allow a similar audition period to the Double Impacts. I would love to hear how they compare and perhaps improve upon these wonderful speakers.
Guys this is this is my first post here in Audiogon. I am based in India. I am primarily a vinyl guy. I have the Rethm Saadhana V 3 speakers and a custom made Berning class A zero feedback fully balanced 6b4g ZOTL 10 Watt amp. The 6b4g tube is basically a 2a3 in an octal.
I just placed my order for a DI SE.
I would personally like to thank Teajay, Mike, Charles1dad and obviously Eric for guiding me in my purchase
Hi Jcarcopo, For me it isn't a case of being "too" polite, I'm just asking him to support his comments. Either he's heard the Double Impacts or he hasn't. I'm open to anyone's opinion on a forum such as this one. I don't expect everyone to agree with my listening impressions. I do expect people to present a reasonable or credible basis for their comments. That’s all. Charles
I think the DI's have laid to rest the idea that paying more for audio automatically gets you better sound. That's a big NOT! At least with the DI's you know you're not paying for a lot of marketing, advertising and overhead, but you do get what matters most.......great sound.
The Aric Transcend amp is still burning in yet still sounds amazing. The combination of the LTA MZ2, Aric Transcend and DI's belies the notion that one needs to spend exorbitant amounts of money to obtain world class sound.
Waltersalas, I just assumed that Shadome has listening experience with the Double Impacts but I certainly could be wrong. Otherwise how could one express such a definitive opinion without actual listening contact? Again I may be working with an incorrect assumption. Charles
He Shadome, Clement Perry has the Double Impacts in his listening room and with components he’s intimately familiar with. I’ve read numerous reviews by him over the years and if anything he tends to gravitate to and favor the higher cost upper end products. He has been exposed to the very upper echelon of the audio high end.
So it seems his high regard for Tekton Double Impacts is sincere and certainly has context. You may not agree with his conclusions (which is fair) but he is a legitimate and very respected reviewer and listener (as is Teajay). Shadome what is your listening impressions of the Double Impacts and where do they fall short based upon your experience with them compared to the speakers you find preferable? What inspires the automobile analogy? Thanks, Charles
I was hoping the tweeters, midrange, and mid bass woofers were in a separate enclosure.
Clement Perry, publisher of The Stereo Times, provided a dose of reality for the many high priced speaker manufacturers in his show report on the Tekton DIs. See http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/rmaf-2017-page-4.
Yes, baranyi (Bob) is correct regarding my personal favorites, here's a few more details:
1) AS I have stated before on this thread the combination of the LTA Micro-ZOTL and the Triode Labs SET 2A3 is my reference for either the DI's or the SE's. When I ran the experiment of driving the 2A3 with other preamps it became to "slow" and lost the speed/kick/dynamics that the Micro-ZOTL provides. But, the combo/synergy between the two is heavenly on the DI's/SE's.
2) However, on the Ulfberht's this combo still provided the beautiful tonality/timbres and "meat on the bone" 3D imaging, but the speakers themselves did not quite disappear in the sound-stage as the DI's did with this combo. However, with the Micro-ZOTL and Aric's SET KT-88 on the Ulf's these big monsters completely vanish like there smaller siblings.
3) Yes, I give up a very slight "romance/intimacy" in the mid-range, however, it's still very beautiful and then you get more precise imaging and as I mentioned the Ulf's do the disappearing act. My hunch is that its not the wattage between the two amps or the type of tubes, but that Aric's amp drops more current then the 2A3 amp which controls the Ulf's better. Remember the Ulf's are slightly more efficient then the DI's, so there not more power hungry,but there a lot more transducers to drive (total of 21).
@mac48025 - It’s not so much about bass output or SPLs but closely matching the woofer with the servo amp which leaves the main amp to only drive the mids and tweeter. Jim Salks Exotica 3 are a prime example of what I’m thinking about. Will be exciting to see what Eric comes up with to further refine and mate with his excellent tweeter array.
David, Teajay does concur that the 2A3 amp does not seem to have enough juice for the Ulf. For some reason the imaging of the speaker was not conveyed correctly with the flea powered amp. It just bunched up between the speakers. When I heard it originally I thought there was something wrong with speaker's imaging abilities. With Aric Kt-88 amp the imaging was much better but the midrange wasn't quite as luscious with the Triode 2a3. It would be interesting to try a 211 amp with the Ulf or one of the Line Magnetic behemoth 219's. I still love the midrange of the 2A3 so I think that the DI SE would be my choice but the regular DI is darn good also for 3k! Ridiculously good for the money! I like romantic symphony music and Jazz and use old Beveridge Model 2 electrostatic speakers. I mention this just so you can know my bias in listening. My wife is a professional singer so getting the midrange is key for me. I typically hate most rooms at the HIFI shows because they play HIFI over music. The DI and up the line can play music. I want to give a plug for Mike at Audio Archon who is as true of an audiophile as you ever will meet. You definitely are in good hands with him. He has great ears as an even better guy.
That is also the issue for me in regards to the Ulfs. I LOVE the design with the double tweeter array but they are just too overwhelming. To be honest, the DI is larger than I'd like. But boy do they sound good!
@baranyi Thanks so much for sharing your impressions from the listening session at Ezra's home.
Does @teajay concur with your take on the 2A3 pairing with the Ulfs? It was my understanding that he feels the LTA Triode pairing is 'perfection' for his needs and preferences.
What would your ideal pairing be for the SEs (preamp and amp)?
Baranyi , I told my audiophile friend the same thing, it’s really great time to be audiophile , so many selection and good products , with a reachable price....Iam greatful....
Not sure what happened but the speakers have a wonderful and alive midrange that are quite enchanting. The speakers completely disappear and they image like crazy! I heard them at Ezra's with Teajay, Mike and Alan. As good as as the original Double Inpacts are (and they are very good!) the SE version are a bit more refined with a warm and organic midrange. They also image better. We heard them fresh from the box so I am anxious to hear them with a few hours on them.
On on another note I must add that the Ulfs are incredibly huge! I have a picture of Teajay standing in between them with him being dwarfed by the Ulfs. I like large speakers but as good as they sound, they will not be everyone. For me the DI SE would be the sweet spot both financially and from a size perspective. In addition you can use a 2A3 single ended amp with the DI SE. For me that would be a central reason to go for this speaker over the Ulf. The 2A3 amp really didn't do the Ulf justice. Anyway, I would like to add that all these speakers do an amazing job for their relatively real world price. I have seen many speakers come through Teajay's sound rooms for review and from a price to performance ratio there is nothing even close to these speakers. If these speakers had a more advertised name they would be many times more expensive! To think you can have a great system with the microZOTL2 and the DI for less than $5K is truely amazing! It is a great time to be an audiophile!
That's my understanding also sbayne. Using low mass drivers to deliver sound with much greater speed and control is the main emphasis of the patent, not the drivers themselves.
Powered subs in the DI's? You must like bass 😛 That's a scary but cool thought. I'm sure it would be interesting hearing the likes of Jupiter or Duelund caps but I imagine Eric would have incorporated them in the Ulfbehrts or SE as the PMD line is his "cost is no object" line.......or maybe he is, as I have no idea what caps are in them!
Seems the drivers don’t play that big of role to the sound of the tweeter array as does the crossover and wiring of each tweeter. I’m guessing he can get very good sound out of many different drivers as long as they fall within certain frequency parameters. Personally, I would like to see a version of the DIs with powered woofers (Rythmik?) and even higher quality caps in the crossover such as Jupiters.
The explanation given by Tekton makes it seem like the drivers used in the SE's or his designs play a "major" role than his patent. Why write a white paper on that patent but won't disclose drivers used in his speakers. Are the drivers more important than his patent that renders all speakers obsolete? Even Magico with expensive custom in-house drivers do disclose their drivers as well as some of the materials used in designing them.
This is a different perspective that I have offered on this and other threads.
One of the great advantages to me of the original DIs (w upgrade) is that they contain defined speaker types that can be purchased directly on the open market. I have done this and rest comfortably knowing that any replacement part is as close as the garage.
So I would not have any interest in the upgraded SE model regardless of any sonic advantages. Those Thiel owners complaining of a lack of replacement transducers on this site illustrate the innate problem with custom speakers available only from the maker.
Mac: My thought process is similar to yours (which should scare you).
If the sound is there, that's all that matters to me. I have seen some food dishes made with some of the very best and most expensive ingredients money can buy and sometimes they were meh, sometimes they were sublime and sometimes I downright did not like them.
The same is true of less expensive ingredients. It depends on how you cool it, the combination of ingredients and how you season it.
In other words, when paying for a great tasting meal, sometimes the most important parts are not the ingredients, but the knowledge of the chef. It it tastes better than a meal with better ingredients, I submit you would still choose that one because you like it better.
I think the same is true with the Tektons. First, not all companies want the same markup for their components. Some good components are inherently cheaper ti buy because the companies sell for less markup. So Eric may be getting good components that just simply cost less. He makes that decision with his ears.
And his tweeter array seems to have the right stuff to the point that it beats most other speakers with very expensive tweeters and midranges. It is the secret recipe and his trademark.
If it sounds better, it is worth more to me. If it sounds better and is even cheaper, I'm not really going to look a gift horse in the mouth and wonder why there aren't more expensive parts in it to push up my cost.
"Where's the beef ?" is the colloquism that comes to mind as the prevailing counter-argument. 😂
Look, if you purchased DIs direct from Eric you avoided dealer markup by buying direct, but with the DIs SE you don't as they are are a dealer marked up product. The sonic improvement likley does justify this added expense irrespective of the actual cost increases relative to performance for dealer markup, but IMHO and humble opinion, and I am unanimous in this, he should jack the price of the DI's up $1,500 because that would allow me to sell my DIs for more money so I can recoup enough money to justify some of this added expense. One hand washes the other. Lol 😂 Just saying...
Like others here I use the Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme speaker cables with my DI's and in my opinion the CT GE cables are a high value in the same way the DI's are. I sold off my 4K speaker cables after trying the $649 CT GE's and will never shop for cables again.
I guess I have a different take on the drivers used in the SE's. I love my DI's and ordered the SE's without knowing what specific drivers are being used but instead based my purchase on teajay's and Mikes sonic assessment of them. My only concern is how they sound as its all about the music for me. Ive heard some extremely expensive speakers with some of the most exotic drivers availability that sounded sterile to me whereas the DI's have rather simple drivers and they are some of the most musical speakers I've heard. I understand that many want to know the specifics of the speakers they're purchasing and I don't think the SE's drivers will remain secret for long as someone will eventually dissect them to determine their identity. To be honest my knowledge of drivers isn't significant enough to base my purchase decision on them, instead I trust in Eric's innate ability to bring forth the realism in music with his driver choices. I'm not implying that my take on this matter is superior, I just wanted to share the perspective I'm coming from......i.e. the technically ignorant perspective 😉
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