Tekton Double Impacts

Perfect timing as I just commissioned Aric to build me a " no holds barred" 300B SET. The KT 120 amp of his is VERY good but I'm going all out with this custom 300B build in hopes of finally obtaining my forever amp. I'll be going with the EML 300B XLS tubes with NOS 6SN7's and 5U4's. I believe this will be the perfect amp for the DI SE's......or at least close enough for me. 

Hi!
I know and understand that we need to keep proving that our new ER300B solved the reliability issues of the past. I am happy to report that so far the failure rate of the improved 300B is close to zero since 15 months. So far only a single 300B tube failed in the field.
Best regards
Thomas

Hi Jcarcopo, 
I had my Elrogs replaced twice under warranty.  I had the early version of this tube and apparently my amplifier ran them too  hard.  Your Art Audio amplifier could be a better match. The company has new ownership and reportedly has solved the problem with these tubes.  I'm hesitant to step back in and besides I'm just very happy with the EML XLS which is very stout and a wonderful fit with my amplifier. In my opinion you currently have two superb sounding tubes.  I hope the Elrog proves reliable for you. 
Charles

@charles1dad thanks, I'm very happy with my elrogs and EML 300bxls. I'm saving my money and passing on these then.  BTW the elrogs so far haven't presented any issues, but I've only had them a few months.   

Jcarcopo,
I was an early buyer of the Takatsuki when they became available and bought mine directly from Japan. This was about 5 years ago and I payed about 1850.00 USD. I’ve heard 11 different 300b tubes in my amplifier (some bought and others loaned from generous audiogon members).

The very best sounding in my system in alphabetical order
AAVT 32B
Elrog 300b
EML XLS
KR XLS 300b
Sophia Electric Royal Princess
Takatsuki

The very best was the Elrog (but proved to be unreliable). Just a "small"step behind were the Takatsuki and EML XLS. Each is truly excellent in my opinion but have different characters.

I have come to develop a slight preference  for the EML XLS. Others who’ve tried both may prefer the Takatsuki and I understand this. Both are wonderful and I believe that the choice could very well be amplifier/circuit dependent as well as listener preference.

Jcarcopo, the EML XLS is my first choice. I haven’t heard the standard version EML 300b but I been told that it’s a very good sounding tube.
Charles

There is a pair of Takatsuki TA-300 300B tubes for sale for $1699 vs their normally ridiculous retail price of $2499, but I can't seem to rationalize that price even if it's 33% off retail. Anyone heard them and think they're better than EML 300B at double the money or the Elrog 300B at $500 more? Somebody talk me out of this... Please!

Anyone in Vegas ,Cali, AZ vicinity that are open, perhaps we can swap favors er what have you. Im open. Thx

Well, from Las Vegas to Orem, Utah, where Tekton speakers are made is 5.5 hours. That’s really nothing. That’s like driving from Houston to New Orleans, only without the hangover.

@teajay 

I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's...............

Very helpful post.

Thanks for the highlighting the nuanced differences between the preamp and amp combinations with for the Double Impacts, the DI-SEs, and Ulfberths; your preferences and findings; and also the cost of tubes selected.

Tekton Design Double Impact SE 

Info is now on the Tekton website

http://www.tektondesign.com/double-impact-se.html

@grannyring

Are you getting rid of the NOS Dayton Tweeter Cap as well?

 Anyone in Vegas area own these,  n can demo?  I basically refuse any manufacturer telling me to "just buy them!"("..sight unheard!!" ) ZERO PERCENT CHANCE of that scenario happening! Like CHHAA NO!!!  Been around block way to many years to take the bait on that cheese!  Lol. 
Anyway,  yes, id like to hear these first n make my own assessments before considering ANY trigger pulling!(oops!  My bad!  ..too soon!??!!😲😞)
Anyone in Vegas ,Cali, AZ vicinity that are open, perhaps we can swap favors er what have you. Im open. Thx

If anyone is looking for a complete set of four 6.5 midrange drivers and four 10 inch woofer drivers as a replacement/back-up sets for their DIs just contact me. The Tekton DI original custom drivers only 50 or so days old and as new. Have boxes and packing for them. 

10

Charles,
I agree, but I addressed the question to Terry because he lists the Sophias as part of his arsenal of amps in his latest review.

Lula,
Based on both professional reviews and owners word of mouth the Sophia 300b SET has exceptionally good sound quality.  I'd think that they'd be a fine match. 
Charles 

I think Home Depot has a End of Summer Sale on some grills if Tekton cant provide them. :P

Wow, no matter how many times I call and ask for the grills I paid for from Tekton I can't seem to get them! WTF?

Yeah, I don't know what's up with that. People have been complaining about the grills for some time. Moreover, most have ended up getting their grills, but only after a prolonged period.

I mean, what are they actually telling you on the phone when you ask about the grills?

Teajay.....what about the Sophia 91-01 300B mono blocks?

Just say you don't sell them and return the Money?

Wow, no matter how many times I call and ask for the grills I paid for from Tekton I can't seem to get them! WTF?

@teajay , you will need to review some more gear soon. I stopped in at Linear Tube Audio today and saw some cool stuff coming. The new ZOTL10 MK2 is already on the web site and it is a completely different animal from the first version, with a Linear power supply and other changes Mark has made makes it sound like the MZ2 alone but with 10 watts.

Also the integrated 10watt amp is almost ready but the most interesting thing I saw was a prototype of a full size and function cost no object preamp. I always have fun when I stop in there especially when I’m supposed to be working.

Hey Everybody,

Now that my review on Elfberht's has been posted I want to share some information on my experience with amplifiers driving them, along with the DI/DI SE's.

1)  My favorite combo (s) on the DI/DI SE's are the LTA Micro-ZOTL / Triode Lab SET 2A3, retails for $3,900.00 and LTA Micro-ZOTL/ AricAudio SET KT-88, retails for $2,100.00.  The 2A3 amplifier gives you a touch, and I do mean just a touch, more warmth and "meat on the bones" in the mid-range then the SET KT-88, which still has just a beautiful tonality in this very important frequency range, but Aric's SET KT-88 bests it in overall macro-dynamics and bass extension/control.  If you only listen to acoustic music you will be thrilled with the 2A3 amplifier; however, if you listen to all kinds of music (rock, blues, heavy metal, big music pieces) along with acoustic jazz then I would recommend the SET KT-88 amplifier.

2)  When I took the ZOTL/2A3 combo to power the Ulf's I still loved the tonality/colors, and image density. However there was a problem with the spatial dimensions regarding that the music seemed to be coming from just in front of speakers and lacking depth/width.  The Ulf's did not do the magical disappearing act like its smaller siblings easily do.  However, when I put the AricAudio SET KT-88 amplifier in the system I still got the great purity of tonality, 3D imaging of a SET design and then these big son of a gun speakers vanished in to a giant realistic layered sound-stage like a small reference level two way monitor does!

3)  The only other SET amplifier that I auditioned that produced about the same level of performance across the board as Aric's SET KT-88 was a pair of SET 300b mono-blocks that retail for $9,000.00.  To tube this amplifier "the right way" to get to this level of performance with NOS tubes, which I have in my own personal collection, would about another $1,500.00 for the pair.  In Aric's amplifier to get great performance a pair of NOS RCA black plate triple mica 5751's, along with a pair of JJ Blue glass KT-88's comes out to about $200.00.   

AS I stated on this thread already we have another Aric who goes on my short list of creative designers building high quality, great performing gear at such reasonable prices.    
 

@ccc8282 

People on this thread have consistently recommended giving the DI's "room to breathe" by allowing several feet from the front and sidewalls to achieve optimal sound. Since that is not an option for you, I would recommend auditioning the Lyngdorf TDAI-2170, primarily for its room correction. When using that system, part of the set up advises you to move the speakers within a few inches from the front wall. It's my belief that you could achieve optimal, uncompromised sound despite your limitations. As another bonus, the magic of this unit to achieve this optimal sound: Use it to replace your DAC, preamp and power amp as well. 

ccc,
several months back several DI owners placed there speakers very close to the front wall just to evaluate how much this would compromise the sound.  I was surprised to read how well they did with that placement.

I like ml like I like my incoherence, I don’t. Their panels never mate to their subs properly and it calls attention to itself.

Hi all. I am not 100% sure this is the place for this question. 

I have a somewhat difficult room in that it is a shared living room with less than ideal conditions and my speakers need to be placed rather close to the back and side wall. 

I have been searching and searching and searching for speakers. I love what I read about the DI and DI SE and wondering if these are worth looking in to further with my constraints. I wish I could preview them and listen to them, but since I can not. It seems like I need some advice from a much more expert knowledgable source. 

Thanks all!

@stfoth - "Probably going to go with monitors.......looks like the monitors use different tweeters and have different specs from the Double-Impact surround speakers. Curious whether anyone has considered the differences or considered the surrounds as main monitors with tubes."

Good question! I own the Impact Monitors but didn’t consider the DI surrounds. Looks like they have a higher sensitivity. That may be helpful if you want to run lower powered amps. I can tell you the Impact Monitors have been getting rave "first impression" reviews from RMAF. (Go to the Impact Monitor thread to see my compilation of the reviews https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tekton-impact-monitors/post?postid=1470434#1470434) I use a REL powered sub with mine and am very satisfied with the lower mids and bass. At their price, the Impact Monitors are very hard to beat.

@james_w514 That probably about sums it up for me. I know you've had a lot of experience with panels. And also with the DI's with lots of quality upstream gear auditions. 

To each their own. I'm sure I could've gone the solid state route and been satisfied but I just got a thing for these damn tubes. Lol. 

Funny thing about this experience is I've had the ML's in my dedicated, sound treated HT room for over 4 years. My new house doesn't have enough space for an HT room. So I sold all my HT gear and wasn't even going to try the ML's on the 508 until a few friends that were over talked me into it. (the ML's haven't been picked up yet by another friend) 

So it all actually happened by chance. 

Panels are a lot more forgiving to a room, yeah?  At least that's what I heard, so I don't really know. 

And if it helps my last few amp/speaker set ups have been Naim Nait 5si (much enjoyed), Primaluna Prologue One with KT 120's (loved this amp), Spatial Audio M3 TS and Totem Element Embers. Just a bit of background info. 

@porscheracer @charles1dad Trust me. I know how out of touch this must sound. Even my wife who has helped me A/B speakers, music streams and DACS much preferred the ML’s. The ML’s are just so musical on the 508 and warm up crappy recordings and give me all the low end I could ask for on classic rock which is where I felt the DI’s weren’t working for me.

I tried the DI’s as far as 3 Ft away from the front walls (as far as I’d visibly want them). I ran them from 6-12ft apart and zero to full toe in and everything in between. I even tightened up the front spikes all the way in and the rear spikes all the way up to try to achieve my desired soundstage/bass quality. I also checked the tightness on the drivers first things first. No dice.

Now to further make myself sound like I’m sniffing glue... The DI’s have a tighter, slightly sharper center image but this is where it gets crazy. The ML’s center image in my set up created more depth/3d sound. Very holographic. Now this could be due to the bipolar nature of the panels and having untreated walls. Maybe reflections are slightly smearing the soundstage and giving me more the holographic effect. Either way the center image is still tight for my tastes.

The DI’s dynamics blow the ML’s out of the water but...the ML’s are more enveloping to me.

I realize I’m trading all out accuracy and resolution for the more euphoric effects of the panels in my room but that’s where my ears are taking me. My hopes with the Ethos or higher series is I will get even more of this same goodness with the added benefit of adjustable subs built in.

One more clarification, on good recordings, the DI's will easily blow the ML's out of the water for all out bass quality, depth and feel. It's not a question of all out bass but more a desire for everything to sound good at all times, maybe even at the expense of all out resolution/clarity. 

And I do realize the contradiction of running a SET amp on panels but the 508 has a lot of grunt and plays the low end quite well.

So that’s my crazy adventure thus far...

Hi Porscheracer,
Could simply be an example of a very synergistic speaker and amplifier match. Sometimes you just find or stumble across the ideal match. It can truly be trial and error. 
Charles 

Hi hfaddict, You’ve got to trust what you hear 😊. That’s an intriguing combination, panel speaker driven by a 50 watt SET amplifier.
Continued blissful listening to you.
Charles

Really? I tried the ML Electromotion ESL's and they sounded almost dead compared to the DI's. The difference in sound quality was massive. I listen to 60's/70's/80's classic rock and a lot of Classical with some Jazz mixed in.

I wonder if it is the listening room or equipment synergy.

And also wanted to say, this is a hell of a site.  Tons of excellent advice and mostly informative posts!   

Corelli, 
Well said and so true.  Obviously borne of wisdom gained by the listening  experience. 
Charles 

audioman,

not sure if I'm following you entirely on your Maggie digression.  If you go back to the first post of this thread I had the 1.7's coupled to REL subs.  Nice for sure, but I sold them and kept the DI's.  Better detail, speed, imaging, sound stage.  All this with inexpensive drivers and economy crossover parts with their attendant higher levels of distortion.  Honestly, I gave up placing much stock in numbers some time ago.  Rarely do they predict how a product will sound.

:-)

@jcarcopo  Language man!  :)

poppycock

In other words, he is just guessing and has no measurements to go by....

I  have worked in audio for over 30 years ,and just from experience 
for example a Hiqiphon tweeter less then .5 % per per on average 
$260a pr . The wavecore not even close 2-3% and not even guaranteed X7  drivers a potential for many anamolies. Very simple math. These revelator tweeters,seas millennium, Accuton ceramic 
are all in the 1%  range .wave Core is a $40tweeter, not $150
you are not going to see hand applied coatings and measurements 
per matched pair . Taiwan or not . This is where you get what you pay for better,everything, materials as well as castings on the frame .this is why YG acoustics,Magic, even Wilson have a dedicated line hand built for them ,but at a cost . That is where 
the 3-4 % potentially comes in ,and for the Bass 3X that.

Well, there’s no doubt that better wire, parts, etc., would help out the DIs.

@audioman  But where are you getting the distortion figures @3% for the DIs, from the mids up?

You having maggi  speakers their speed is 2 nd to only Electrostaics. And the panel is for sure far less mass ,faster less distortion , but will not have the dynamic output from midbsss down . Put 2 powered subwoofers in the mix and now potentially 
you will have optimum extension and control.
my earlier comment on conventional driver distortion was from the midrange on up ,not lower midbsss on down. Maggi can be greatly improved just be putting in Quality crossover parts ,fuses 
and get rid of the cheap frame ,Myers stands much more ridged
all depends on your room ,what’s lacking what you are trying to accomplish.  Myself have one of the New pup Martin Logan 
powered DSP powered bass. I completely upgraded the crossover 
far better then even their best speaker , it now sounds excellent 
wires many people overlook .i have tried many  cables finally settled on the Verastarr line , these get out f the way far better then 
most commercial brands by a wide margin. Penny wise and pound foolish .myself included in the past .everything starts and stops with wire .many times it  is your wire masking the capabilities of 
your electronics .that is another story . Don’t be cheap ,your system is only as strong as its weakest link !!

@audioman58 - So, you’re just specing things out in theory. That’s cool. I understand now.

I’m a purist. I don’t want distortion. I’ve spend X amount of dollars on a front end with almost nil measurable distortion. Moreover, I grapple with the "distortion" inherent in tube amps, and whether I want that, even knowing that SS amp manufacturers don’t ever talk about the high order harmonics intrinsic in their gear. Of course, any recording ever committed to magnetic tape has loads of 3rd order harmonics, not failing to mention the distortions inherent in microphones.

Anyway, some of that is a different story. However, did you know that blind tests in humans have deduced that even the introduction of 19% distortion below 500Hz is inaudible? This also plays into the masking effect that all speakers have. So, we’re talking about bass in the DI and whether 2%-3% distortion in the low end is going to have a great effect, as opposed to these cats who use NASA grade dampening material.

What’s more, there are some theories that state that most speaker manufacturers have it all wrong, in that they are using too much dampening, when fundamentally music relies - nay, NEEDS - vibration to happen, and that dampening has become just audiophile speak that says something has to perform X way to react Y way. In other words, you don’t throw out dampening, but you also consider what is a proper amount of vibration and whether that adds to the sound or not.

I posted yesterday about speaker manufacturers goosing the bass, and this much is a fact. Therefore, I ask if a $50k speaker, or even a $200 Bose system, knowingly skews the original audio signal by 4db in the bass, yet with only 1% distortion, and this other speaker has more of a natural bass response with 3% distortion (that you cannot hear anyway), which is the lesser of the two evils?