Tekton Double Impacts

I'll  echo Waltersalas and say please chill everyone.  Custom speakers ordered from other ID companies (i.e. Salk & Ascend )  can take many months to build and deliver, especially with a custom finish. A lot of the Tekton designs are brand new (Ulfberht, Mini-Ulf & SE versions) and it's only reasonable to expect a lengthy wait. Maybe Eric should "under promise" and "over deliver" as waltersalas says. My Impact Monitors took 5 weeks to ship and were well worth the wait-

pawsman 

Hopefully in a little time Eric will resolve these issues.
I do agree with what has already been said here and It would be much better business practices to under promise and over deliver.

With all this talk about doing amp comparisons,
I have a shootout happening today between 2 Dht sets the first one up is My Yamamoto A09s which has some newly acquired Eml xls 300b tubes and my latest purchase from Audiogon which is the Consonance cyber 30 which is a 2a3 set and I'm using some 1950's Ken Rad 2a3 tubes that I had in my collection.

The cyber is a Intergrated amp with a headphone plugin but I have rewired it to be a pwr amp only removing the volume control and headphone speaker switch out of the signal path.

Both amps will be driven by my MZ2S preamp.

More thoughts to follow.

Kenny.

I'll also echo walterseas.......Eric is well intended when promising shipping but then reality hits when demand exceeds production capability. The idea of under promising and over delivering would go far. For those getting impatient for their speakers, and I can certainly understand why you are, your patience will be well rewarded. As Walterseas stated, Tekton speakers aren't just great speakers for the money, they are great speakers period. When I ordered my DI's they were just an idea in Eric's head at the time and it took a bit longer than promised to get them. I'm so glad I waited as I've been blessed with nearly a year of musical bliss since. Hang in there gents, you will be so glad you did. 

And good luck to Eric in training his new staff. Hopefully they will be kicking out record numbers of speakers in no time. 

Glad to see Eric came on and addressed both the cones and the delays for some speakers. I can say that I am also past the point that Eric told me that I would get mine, but really I have not made it an issue. He is doing some new stuff for me and I'm going to let him sort it out. If it really gets to the point where it is painful for me, I'll get hold of them and discuss it with them before going public -- it's what I think any one of us would want if we were in his shoes. As far as the guys who have posted already, I am not condemning it (I don't know the intimate details, nor am I one to judge -- not for me to say). And really when something gets to a point you can't get it addressed, then what else can you do? I have no idea if that was the case, I just know I am not there on my stuff. I wanted the best speakers I could afford, and I actually think I am getting better speakers than I could afford anywhere else, so I am happy to wait, but that's me. We are all wired different. At some point though, Eric will lose business (and reputation) with delays. He is not a stupid person. I am sure he realizes it and sounds like he is addressing it. Hopefully, it will allow him to continue his growth. He needs to have other people painting speakers. He is the face behind the business. He needs to be doing the design, planning for growth and talking to the press and customers (for as long as he can still do that function). Just my two cents.

Vito,

Your speakers are the most complex speakers we’ve built to date. A few months ago this model did not exist. The Ferrari matched paint didn’t speed the project along either. We’re in the home stretch on the mains and they have to be perfect. 

Eric

Anyone wanting speakers quickly and promptly should consider purchasing the Double Impact featured in our standard soft gloss finish (normally black) with the upgraded x-overs. The price is $3300 for the pair and they typically have a 24-48 hour turnaround time. We're building them daily here so that's the way to go if you want things expedited.

Eric Alexander - audio designer 

  

Anyone wanting speakers quickly and promptly should consider purchasing the Double Impact featured in our standard soft gloss finish (normally black) with the upgraded x-overs. The price is $3300 for the pair and they typically have a 24-48 hour turnaround time. We're building them daily here so that's the way to go if you want things expedited.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

Thank you, Eric. I believe I will stick with the mini-Ulfs. I only grouse because I care. Heh.

evolvist,

I beat you will be rewarded for your patience with some speakers that you will love.
Besides somebody needs to get the mini Ulfs so we can read how good they are.😃

Kenny.

I have talked with Karma at Tekton and you can consider my situation taken care of.

The refurbished Pioneer M-22 I bought arrived today with the morning mail. It is a heavy amp at 48.5 lbs. Its gorgeous!

I setup the Vidar and M-22 on the floor in front of my rack so it would be easy to swap cables and let both amps warm up for 30 minutes. The M-22 dwarfs the Vidar. I started with the Vidar. I set the volume to my normal listening level. Then I went to YouTube, played an 80 Hz tone, and noted the dB level from my listening position. I played a few songs from my "Test" playlist in Roon. Then I switched all the cables over to the M-22 and volume matched using the same 80 Hz tone. I then played those same few songs from my "Test" playlist.

The difference was palpable. I couldn’t believe how much better the M-22 sounded to me. I double checked the volume matching just to make sure that wasn’t the reason for the difference. I am having a hard time isolating the differences because everything about the music sounds better. The music is much more full sounding without losing any detail or clarity. The bass is full and strong yet is controlled and clear. There is no muddiness in the bass. The mids are incredible. The highs are clean and strong without any harshness or brightness nor any roll off. For the overall sound, the word "lush" comes to mind. Maybe a bit "wet" as Marvey defines it. But all the while sounding natural. Don’t get me wrong. The Vidar amp sounds great. But it pales in comparison...at least so far.

I immediately thought that I must be experiencing "expectation bias". What else could explain the significant difference I was hearing?

I decided to setup a comparison session for my wife. She is a guitar player and is very musical. But, she has never paid any attention to audio equipment and thinks I am a little bit crazy buying all the audio equipment I have. I explained that I wanted her to listen to a couple of songs with each amp, not knowing which amp was used, and then tell me which she like better. She said I was wasting my time as she thought she would not be able to tell the amps apart.

I had her listen to two songs: "Gold" by Jonathan Stewart and "I.G.Y." by Donald Fagen. The first song is one she requested and the second is one I think exposes strengths and weaknesses audio systems. I flipped a coin and Vidar got to goes first. She listened to both songs and commented that they sounded great. I then switched to the M-22, volume matched, and had her listen again. About 30 seconds into "Gold" she had me stop the music. She said the second amp sounded far better than the first. I continued the two songs. After they finished, she said she was surprised at how much better the second amp sounded and was even more surprised that she could actually tell the difference. She likened the difference to hearing music live versus on the radio. She told me to keep the second amp, whichever one it was. Funny, she never asked which amp was which.

I have a lot more listening to do. But, if initial impressions are any indication, I will probably have a Vidar for sale soon!

I almost forgot. The gain of the M-22 amp is somewhat less than Vidar as the tube hum is quieter. About 3dB less if measured 2 inches from one of the midrange driver dust caps. When volume matching, I didn't have to turn the volume knob all that much to match sound level. Maybe 3 or 4 steps on the relay. This is surprising to me considering Vidar is 200 watts per channel and the M-22 is 30 watts per channel. The M-22 has more enough power. The volume can go well past extremely uncomfortable!

@porscheracer - "I have talked with Karma at Tekton and you can consider my situation taken care of."  - Great news!

@evolvist - "Thank you, Eric. I believe I will stick with the mini-Ulfs" - +1

Eric:
Thanks --- good to know. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on how they sound after you get them together and tweaked.

@Kenny @sbayne - Well, I never said I was patient, yet that starts with patience toward myself, first. I have to keep moving forward, all of the time.

Sbayne mentioned societal changes. I’ve embraced those changes. We now live in a world of instant gratification. That’s just the way it is. Really, it puts extra pressure on those people, like Eric, who are trying to bring new things into world. As much as I love the concept of a mom ’n’ pop business, it’s mostly non-viable these days to have such dreams. One has to innovate or get out of the way. Perhaps that’s where Tekton is at the moment. Remember, Tekton started almost 10-years ago. That’s dog years in the audiophile/hi-fi world. Yet, here they are, still making speakers. The word got out; the pressure got juiced.

So, I ask myself, why didn’t I cancel my order? I suppose it’s because I was raised in the days where we didn’t know who was on the other end of the telephone line until we picked it up. When I was a kid, I played outside all day until the street lights came on. When it was time for supper I ate what was prepared, and if I didn’t like it, I would go without. With my first car, I could raise the hood and fix anything I needed.

A "Message board" was made of cork, and a person would use thumbtacks to pin little slips of paper to it.

I don’t necessarily wish for those days back. Still, I wear them like a shadow. They have a way of sticking around, though they are long dead.

I wish that Tekton will stick around.

evolvist,

I can relate to everything that you have said,
I have great memories of my first real hi fi speakers which were Khorns when I was 19 yrs old and I remember the anticipation and frustration waiting for 2 months for a set of better tweeter drivers for those big horns.I ordered them through the mail and had to send a personal check but when I finally got them and installed them they sure did sound good back then.It's been so long ago I can't recall what brand of tweeter it was.

Then later I decided to rework the crossovers and that was a whole another adventure to say the least and I'm not gonna bore you guys with it.

Kenny.

A shout out to the greater Houston and southern / coastal Texas members to stay safe and out of harms way.

@evolvist - Well said! Kudos!

Well, it's always good to see a happy ending.

Helpful suggestions have been made.  For me, quality control is always critical.  Delays in shipment are far more forgivable..as long as the quality is there.  It sounds like Eric is on the same page.  Given that, I  encourage patience as Eric goes through growing pains.  Far better he hires skilled help rather than "get the job done quickly" help.

We all appreciate what Eric has done for the audio community.  And I'm glad he took the time to post here.  Here's wishing Tekton success in the future.

Porscheracer,
Thanks for the initial listening impressions of the two amplifiers. I was confident that if you just listen and focus on the music things would naturally sort themselves out. I’m not surprised that you and your wife express a decided preference for the Pioneer amplifier, more "natural and live" sounding as your wife pointed out. Pure class A well implemented will do that 😊. Watt quality versus watt quantity in my humble opinion . Congratulations.
Charles

Hey thanks David, I know know that me, Bullitt and Vitop might be in for an adventure with the hurricane hitting to the south of us. There's no telling how much of the three of us will. get in Houston. 

I don't know of anybody in here from Corpus, but if there are I hope they're safe.

The good news is that the DIs are big enough to double as canoes. 

It also makes me glad that Eric didn't ship my mini Ulfs on time. It's not a real good time for that kind of investment to arrive in the mail. Haha. 

A few years ago I bought the entire Enzo home theatre system, a total of 7 speakers.  That was the worst and largest audio purchase I ever made. My $500 MMG Magnepans sounded better. I ended up selling the entire system for less than half of what I paid. I ended up going back to Magnepan with the 1.7. 
I sold them through Audio Solutions in Indianapolis. We played the Enzo mains and everyone in the shop was surprised how bad they sounded. They told me that they looked inside the enclosure and they couldn't see any internal bracing. 
I don't know how these got a good review unless the reviewers are paid off. They sound very dull and muttled.
Eric of Tekton was a real pain to deal with too. After I ordered, several months later, I still had no speakers. After several delays, I called to cancel my order. Eric convinced me not to cancel, worst financial mistake I've ever made.
I will avoid Tekton with a 20 foot pole. 

racer12b

Funny, I sold my Magnepan 1.7's after 2 weeks with the DI's.  I can assure you none of us have been paid off.

As my departed grandmother used to say, "to each his own."

A room full of Audiophiles all agreed that my Tekton Design Enzo mains were lousy;
very dull, muttled, no detail, clarity. $500 Magnepans are so much better.

I believe eve it was Andrew Robinson that has given Tekton good reviews, I wonder if the speakers the reviewers get have the same components as what I got.

corelli,
I don't mean to bash your DIs, I've never heard them.  I can only tell you about my experience with the Enzo mains, surrounds, center and subs I had. 

Maybe Tekton Design has has decided to install better crossovers, drivers and brace cabinets since my experience with the Enzos.

Did you get your speakers with grills?  Eric never delivered on mine.

@racer12b

Take your butt out of here. Nothing constructive with your post, just being a weak troll. Bye!

@Aniwolfe

I agree entirely.  BTW I messaged you back. Just give me a call.

Jonathan

Well Racer, I just invested in a complete HT setup with Eric, and certainly hope my experience does not mirror yours. I will say though that I in no way think that the DI speakers I heard were anything close to veiled or any of the other adjectives you describe. I believe what you say happened, but I can't connect the dots. I love electrostats and ribbons (I own a set of each). I think the Tektons are much more dynamic and the clarity is superb. I do not think they are as airy as my ribbons, but the mini Ulfs are supposed to partially bridge that gap. I can't say because I have not heard them. I HATE muddled/veiled speakers. I would never have invested in them if I thought they were veiled. I would never describe the sound I heard from the DIs as being veiled. I can't explain what happened in your situation.

@aniwolfe  - What? You can't have dissenting opinions in here?

The person was speaking from their experience. I would rather have that than a Tekton circle jerk.

It's okay to have a bad experience with a product. There's not a one-size-fits-all speaker for everybody.

I agree evolvist -- I didn't hear the same thing, but it seems that someone should be able to say they didn't like something on a forum that is discussing experiences with the product.
If a bunch of people all heard the speaker sound bad, then it probably sounded bad, but I sure can't say why their experience was different.

@evolvist

Ok first of all. Why would someone buy a entire HT speaker system without hearing the product first? That's why companies like Tekton have a trial period. Did he try and return the speakers? He never mentioned that did he? He created account on Audiogon a few weeks ago and all he is doing is spewing stuff that no one knows if it is true or not. Ok? So now what...Eric is going to have to stop working on your Mini Ulfs to defend this claim that supposedly happened years ago from this stranger :P

I just ordered a pair of Electrons 6 days ago. If I don't get them in the quoted 2-3 weeks. I will choose not to come here to bash Tekton. I am goin call Eric or Karma and have a chat to straightened out the situation. Just a choice I have made. Some people might want to consider doing that next time.

When Porscheracer had the issue with the dented dust caps. I 100% supported him. Even though it wasn't Tekton's fault. He claimed he tried to get a hold of the company to get assistance and he got not response. At the same time we don't know Tekton's side of the story. Lucky for us Eric reads the forum and responded. Oh wait...he just took more time away from your Mini Ulfs.

@aniwolfe  - Help me to follow your point.

My point is that anybody can come in here and saying what they want to say (as long as they don't use blue language, evidently).

They don't need a hall monitor to shoo them away.

Is there some kind of rule that I'm missing which states that your first posts must be positive ones?

Remember, at the end of the day all we are doing is acting out of self-preservation, i.e. this is my stuff, and that is your stuff, and I love my stuff, so don't infringe upon my stuff. Maybe it makes some of us feel better to piss and moan about our stuff (or our lack thereof).

I know that when it comes time for me to read about your stuff, I'll anxiously read it all. :-)

@evolist,
Your are right, I was a fool for buying the entire Enzo home theater system without hearing it.  My mistake was that I read flowery reviews, from people like Andrew Robinson on the Pendragon.  I figured, if an expert liked them, so would I. I was way too naive. Any good writer can write a good review if motivated $$. This is the first time I have spoken out online about my experience, because I felt embarrassed and ashamed for being so gullible.

I didn't return them because I kept telling myself that they must just need more burn in time.  Well, they never got better and by the time I realized it, the return window was closed.

Vitop,
I certainly hope your experience is better than mine. My advice, if you hear them and are not impressed, return them at once.  Mine never improved after the burn in. And if you ordered the grills and Eric says he will send them later, don't hold your breath, I've been waiting for 4 years.

If you need a second opinion about my Tekton Design Enzo, call Audio Solutions in Indianapolis and talk to Vince. It's been about 4 years but maybe he remembers hearing them. Audion Solutions:

(317) 255-4434

racer12b,

"Maybe Tekton Design has decided to install better crossovers, drivers and brace cabinets since my experience with the Enzos"

Yes on all items.

I have never heard any of the Enzo's but I did hear the pendragon several yrs ago and wasn't impressed at all but the DI's are a completely different story.

I do believe that anybody on these threads is allowed to have their own opinion but It does look kinda strange that you just joined up on Audiogon and your very first post is a negative one.


Kenny.

The truth is, I’ve read customer reviews of $100k speakers that were less than stellar, but really never any negative reviews from professional reviewers.

I think that’s just to way the ball bounces. Somebody won’t like something for whatever reason.

Hey, there could be a bad batch, or whatever you want to call it. The lack of braces inside is weird.

I can tell you that the upgraded DIs that I heard were pretty special, while the standard ones sounded "just okay." Then again, the standard model was about 4ft apart, and about 6ft from the listener.

I think it’s good to hear all of these different experiences.

Yeah, Kenny, you've actually opened these boxes up. How was the design on the insides? 

Sorry for being a newbie and I do realize there are trolls out there, but after seeing this thread about Tekton, I feel obligated to share my experience.  I couldn't keep my mouth shut any more. For a second opinion, I invite you to call Audion Solutions in Indianapolis today.

(317) 255-4434

The contact at Audio Solutions is Victor.  Sorry, it's been about 4 years.  Ask Victor about his experience with my Enzos. (317) 255-4434 Audio Solutions

Racer12b,
you're extremely late to the party; there is almost unanimous consent on here by both respected reviewer Teajay and others, actual multiple purchaser of Tekton DI who vouch for the DI. And, what does your purchase of Enzo speakers have to do with the current model DI? Nothing is the answer.

I am truly sorry for you if your tale is true; but it really has nothing to do with the Double Impacts or Ulfs. And yes, you have the right to voice an opinion from your experience. Yet it seems misplaced here and should be located in a thread discussing the Enzo.

I am a former professional musician from a family of musicians, some very well known. My wife is a classical guitarist. I have owned Tekton products from a single driver Fostex monitor, Mini-Lore, Lore. They are all excellent sounding buys for their category of dollars performing well above their cost. None were muddled.

I currently own a bunch of excellent performing speakers, DeVore 0/96, Harbeth SHL5, and some pretty good ancillary equipment such as Leben CS600, Cary 280v, SLP98, LTA MZ2s, etc., etc., and have had much good equipment in my systems over the past 50 years. I believe my hearing is excellent. What was your amplifier and ancillary equipment with Enzo? 

To sum up, this is a thread about the Double Impact, not Enzo. Everyone has a right to voice an opinion; but I will qualify that by saying your comments are misplaced in this thread. Best, mikirob

P.S. It is also a little weird that you want people to contact a dealer in Indiana to validate your claim. No one finds that request strange?

I'm confused as to why someone would come on to a forum to complain about different speakers purchased four years ago.  It's like complaining about a 20 year old Porsche 924 on a Porsche forum thread discussing the current 911's.   Not relevant.

evolvist,
"Yeah, Kenny, you've actually opened these boxes up. How was the design on the insides"

The Di cabinets are well made at their price point IMO and they do have a cross brace in the area of each woofer which also supports the back end of each woofers magnet.The upper section has a sealed compartment which houses the mids and tweeters and this compartment is the height and internal width of those drivers and is 8 inches in depth.The woofers enjoy the majority of the internal volume and I think both key items are the other reasons why this speaker sounds so darn good.
The crossover for the woofers is mounted to the bottom brace and the crossover for the upper drivers is mounted vertically on the wall of the sealed compartment.

The cabinet just has a small amount of regular fiberglass insulation as the damping material and even though I personally don't see a problem with that there may be some room for improvement.

Offcourse we all need to remember that this wonderful sounding speaker only cost a measly 3k and the majority of the cost is in the drivers which equal 1/3 or slightly more overall cost and also the parts cost in the upgraded crossovers aren't cheap either.Eric uses decent wire throughout and that costs money to.

Kenny.

mikirob,
I respect your experience. The DI may be totally different from my Enzos. I do believe Tekton is capable of making a good speaker. If they install good drivers, crossovers, and a well braced enclosure with the appropriate volume to match the drivers, it should sound good. It's not that difficult to build a good speaker nowadays.

Sounds like my Enzo’s had something wrong with them. Maybe they had reverse polarity or something, perhaps that why they sounded dull and muddy.

I should say that the 2 Pendragon subs I had were not bad, I can’t complain about those. I sold them however, because every time I looked at them it reminded me of my bad experience, it made me feel sick to my stomach just thinking about it.

I’m sorry racer12b. That’s terribly sad. You say your Enzo’s didn’t even have internal bracing - this is extremely odd as every Enzo ever produced has internal bracing within it. Do you have any pictures? Maybe you got an Asian knock-off of the patented design...??

Sound is so subjective. Just because you didn’t like them yourself doesn’t mean the speaker (or any other speaker) sounds bad. We all have different tastes and opinions of how sound should be done. 4.55 people out of every 100 return the Double Impact to me and this proves I cannot make everyone happy all of the time. I say they don’t know how to listen, they can’t focus on subtle nuances and details, or maybe their room is garbage acoustically. A few individuals simply enjoy trolling for gear, they purchase, enjoy, evaluate and move on to something new. I’ve been doing this for over 30 years and I’m completely convinced some individuals cannot discern good sound even if it jumped up and bit them. Some of them are even CEO’s of loudspeaker companies.

Anyway, the Enzo was created years ago and has ABSOLUTELY ZERO to do with the Double Impact of today so everyone can rest easy. The DI’s absolutely slaughter the original Enzo! I created the original Enzo for one reason only... a viable alternative to the B&W 804. Nothing more... nothing less. Your MMG Magnepan’s were frankly the last thing on my mind as some type of benchmark.

Because sound is so subjective to all of us... in my humble opinion, the MMG Magnepan (and every other flat panel speaker) precludes itself from EVER qualifying itself as a true reference ’music producer’ because they are fundamentally flawed. Flat tweeters (ribbons, AMT's, planars, etc...) tend to fall in this category for me as well. Flat panel speakers radiate in a planer fashion (it shoots out a flat wave-front) and they have limited excursion. They cannot even be played to dynamic reference levels. It's like owning a Ferrari that can never go beyond 40 MPH - as a drummer and musician the thought is illogical and foreign to me. Furthermore, last time I checked there were no planar radiating musical instruments in any orchestras. This is like planting peas and expecting to get a crop of corn.

Eric Alexander - audio designer

racer - I appreciate the contact, but since I heard them myself, I know what they sound like and I like them. Not sure what the situation was with the speakers you had.

Now on to a more fun topic:

I spent most of last night listening to a variety of different types of music (blues, rock, jazz, soul, classical) that were either recorded in the studio or live in different venues to further evaluate  the Ulf's for my up coming review.  It became very difficult to keep my "reviewers hat" on because this speaker allows you to relax and connect to the emotions that the musicians are conveying in their performance.  Yes, all the parameters of world reference level standards (effortless dynamics, total transparency allowing all the micro-details to be easily heard, accurate sound-staging with air and space between the players, beautiful timbres/colors, and a bottom end that totally pressurizes the room) are done by this magnificent speaker, without it sounding analytical or losing the feeling in the music.

Another amazing aspect is how, just like the DI's, this VERY big speaker just disappears like the best of the breed of world class two way monitors do if set-up the right way.  Can a 12K speaker be considered a bargain?  If it out performs virtually anything on the current market, which I believe the Ulf's do, the answer is yes!  Two more listeners that I know personally have sold off their speakers that retail for around 30K and replaced them with the DI's, so the owners of even more expensive speakers might really trip out when they hear is offered by the Ulf's compared to their 100K transducers.   

Thanks for your listening session updates and findings. And YES, it's a pleasant diversion to be focused on the positive. Appreciate it!

First off, as owner of both the DI's and Enzo's I can confidently say both are great sounding speakers. My Enzo's were purchased in 2013. While the DI's are a definite step up from the Enzo's, the Enzo's are the reason I ordered the DI's without knowing a thing about them. The Enzo's blew me away, giving me the confidence to trust that Eric had an even bigger winner in the DI's. 

Thanks for the update teajay. Sounds like you're having a great time with the Ulfberhts. I'm not surprised they sound amazing. Are you still driving them with the MZ2 and 2A3? 

Hey mac48025,

I have tried different combos, the Micro-ZOTL with different ampilifers, and the 2A3 no doubt is my favorite, both on the DI's and now the Ulf's.  I had no problems in any way with the 2A3 driving the DI's and since the Ulf's are even easier to drive its a match made in heaven.  It's hard for me to believe that when I go back to a great 300B SET amplifier it kinda sounds more like reproduced music then when through the Triode Lab 2A3 amplifier.

teajay,

Very nice update I know how you feel about trying to keep your Audiophile reviewers hat on.

I'm really digging the sound from the little Consonance cyber 30,
nice little amp and the 2a3 has always been my favorite Dht tube in general with appropriate speakers Offcourse.

Kenny.

Good stuff Terry. Love to hear it. Eric raved about the Ulfs and I have never heard them, so good to see that Erics impressions are vindicated in a professional review.

Hey Terry, I know you can only do so many reviews of one brand of speakers, but do you think you will review the mini Ulfs? At the price point they are at, I think a lot of audiophiles might find it an interesting speaker.