Vitop, the Ulf's are more holographic than the DI's. Some recordings jump out at you from them. One big difference between the two, is the amount of detail that the Ulf's reveal. They are detail monsters and hold nothing back. The Ulf's are still breaking in, but some of the differences are already clear between the two.
Tekton Double Impacts
Anybody out there heard these??
I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks.
I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Thanks.
5,692 responses Add your response
Jeffrey: Tremendous. There is only one speaker that I heard that was head and shoulders above the DIs. And that includes the Sonus Faber, Wilsons, etc that go into 6 figures. And where the difference was, was the holographic 3d sound. I spoke to Eric and he assured me that the Ulf would be there. But hell, we are talking about a $3000 set of speakers going up against speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars and holding it’s own. I would say a roaring success for the DIs regardless. |
Mofojo, I definitely prefer the Ulf's over the DI's. The bass alone is a considerable improvement over the Double Impacts. Not only is there more of it, but it's very refined. The Ulf's also do fine detail and nuance that the DI's can't quite match. Both are great speakers, but the Ulfberhts are on a whole different level. |
Jeffrey I have a pair of Wilson Audio Duette 2's that I absolutely love. It is powered by a Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 amp which produces fantastic sound. I was intrigued by this conversation and was going to buy the DI's for fun to compare to the Duette 2's. But now with the Ulf's that is a different story. At $12k I would have to sell my Duette's. Obviously the size comparison is monumental. If you have the experience, what high end speakers would you compare the Ulf's to. Another reason I am considering the Uhf is that I have a ginormous room. What speakers did you have before the Ulfs ( not counting the DI). Is there anyway you could post a video to You Tube? |
Willgolf: I happen to love Wilson speakers. They have many fans and many detractors, but for the life of me I can't understand what there is not to like about their sound. They sound very good to me. I've heard many in their line and obviously I like some more than others, but they all are very musical as far as I am concerned. |
@kdude66 @porscheracer @craigl59 @lmswjm @sbayne @bullitt5094 Thanks to all of you who responded to my query (regarding minimal discussion of our source / front end components) with your thoughts and perspectives. Very helpful in expanding my understanding. Some additional thoughts regarding that post (page 27 closer to the bottom of the page). Bill: I suggest the speaker expresses rather than "determine[s] the appropriate quality of the other upstream components in a system." Would you agree? Kenny, You said: "I look at that as most users of the DI’s already have a quality front end either digital or analog and are kinda set using what sounds good to them,..." This was my implied concern with the original post/question: ’What if we don’t?’ It is difficult for me to imagine that we do, given that we are spending a lot of time, energy, and budgets on amps and preamps. If we believe two parts of the chain need massaging (which is pretty much happening across all DI owners, myself included), why not all parts? We certainly haven’t spent much time on that end of the equation, so how would we really know? This falls under that ’philosophical question’ moniker. Additional thoughts? |
David, You are asking some valid questions here and I will answer with my opinion for me. I currently don't listen to much analog at all and see no reason to change anything with it. I have used a fair amount of different Dac's over a 5 to 7 yr period and feel like I have upgraded in sound overall with what I use now. Direct stream Direct stream Jr Yggy The Yggdrasil is the newest and was mainly bought to compare with the Jr and be used in my 2nd system.I use the direct stream in my main system and I haven't tried the Yggy there.Maybe I need to and maybe different cabling as well needs to be tried. The direct stream with the latest Huron software is the best Dac that I have ever heard or owned,do you have any suggestions. Best, Kenny. |
Kenny, my post wasn't and isn't about suggestions for DACs. Your PS Audio Direct Stream with the Huron update is widely praised and recognized; and I think there are others on this thread that are also very happy with theirs, as you are. I'm in no way suggesting that we should be unhappy with what we currently have. I'm just surprised that the front ends appear to be static or status quo for most of us. This strikes me as odd when we (MYSELF included) are working on replacing preamps and amps. And this is in spite of a truly remarkable whole lot of 'whole lot of' going on in the digital arena. |
David, I see this same thing as front end being static or status quo for a few years now.Certainly not just this thread but many other ones,on other websites other than audiogon and also at audio dealers to. Your observation has merit and is directed to the overall systems synergy which is the bottom line. I can't really answer your question directly but maybe someone else here will have a different enlightening answer. Kenny. |
David_Ten: It occurs to me that there is a major revolution taking place with the Lyngdorf 2170. This approach removes the necessity of a DAC and a Preamp and maintains the digital stream intact until the final amplified signal is converted to analogue right before the speaker terminals. Lyngdorf solved the volume control issue by having it control the power supply and that control the power output. So, as a continuation of the computer-centric approach I suggested above, this means that all signal control and processing takes place in the virtual realm. At my other place I have a 5-channel system with a computer right next to an Emotiva XMC-1 -- which is also a Linux computer. Why all the computers? One is enough. It can hold the music files, control all of the signal processing, then convert the digital signal by class D to speaker terminals . Only one box is needed and a completely open-ended design exists as regards apps and future file formats/changes. Would have gotten the Lyngdorf rather than a Nord amplifier but needed more power and was not convinced the file formats currently supported by the 2170 will be sufficient in the future. |
Willgolf, I had the DI's before the Ulfberhts, and Legacy Focus before that. The DI's and the Ulf's easily beat the Legacy's. Much more efficient/easier to drive, much more detail, more and better bass. The DI's would serve you well, even in a large room. And, would allow you the funds to upgrade your other components, which the Tekton speakers really do need to strut their stuff. The Ulf's are a unique beast, in a class of their own. It's not really fair to compare them to anything other than "endgame" speakers, and I have not had the chance to try any of those--too rich for my blood. All that said, if folks can afford the price, the Ulf's would not disappoint. |
@david_ten I had been out of high end audio for 30 years when I decided I wanted to get better sound out of my nearfield computer workstation setup. I enjoyed the setup so much that I knew it was time to setup a nice 2 channel setup in my little used Library. I didn't want to spend more than $10K on the whole setup including speakers, headphones, and headphone amplifier. I could afford more, but I wanted to have that limit. $10K is not a lot when you want quality equipment and great sound. I knew I would need to find high value equipment if I wanted great sound. Fortunately, I had some friends with some nicer high end equipment against which I would have a chance to evaluate and compare my more budget minded choices. It became clear early on that Schiit Audio was a company that made a lot of high value products. An example? I had a chance to compare a friend's Yggdrasil to a friend's Chord Dave and another friend's PS Audio DirectStream. I won't get into specifics, but Yggdrasil held its own very well against the Dave and was a bit better than the DirectStream. Especially with the Red Book content I listen to 99% of the time. I found that Schiit's tope of line preamp, the Freya, sounded great yet was priced far lower than comparable sounding preamps. I bought a Mjolnir 2 because it pair well with the headphones I like and, again, it performed as well as much more expensive equipment. I am planning on buy two Schiit Vidar amps. This is on faith. Monoblock amps that have the same features cost MUCH more. I have confidence that these amps will sound great too. The TektonDesign Double Impact speakers are another example of a high value product. These speakers, combined with the Schiit audio equipment I have listed above, should provide me with a fantastic sounding 2 channel setup, for under $10K, that sounds as good or better than setups costing two to three times as much or more. I'll have a pretty good idea by the end of next week! |
Yes I use the Lyngdorf 2170 paired with a Music Vault Ultra Plus server. The combo is wonderful. I use Tidal and my MV Ultra came with a lifetime Roon membership. I ripped all my CDs into the MV Ultra also. Lyngdorf is using some SOTA technology in the 2170 with their room correction being on the top of the list. They provide the best room correction available today assuring your speakers sound as they should, were intended to sound, in your particular room. No additional complexity that comes with using separate boxes and wiring for amps, preamp, dac etc... It is all in one box with very, very short signal paths. Amazing how noise free this unit is and you must hear it to know what I am talking about. I thought my past systems had low noise, but the Lyngdorf showed me there was noise I was not aware of. |
Another product similar to the Lyngdorf TADI 2170, is the combo from Exogal, Comet & Ion. The Exogal combo keeps the signal in the digital domain as well, sounds superb in my system. grannyring is right about the future, look for more all in one all digital units coming down the pike. I will be able to hear the DIs soon as one of the posters here lives close to me, I'm looking forward to the audition. |
@kdude66 Kenny, your point about overall system synergy is on point! Thank you for your personal thoughts on this. The forums over at Computer Audiophile, as one example, are by no means static in this area (digital). Some very, very interesting approaches being pursued and experimented with, many with good returns. AudioStream is good at covering some of these topics with a 'very light hand' by way of their reviews. -------------------------------- @craigl59 Yes. And there has been a steady progression going on for some time now (at least in electronic audio time). I'm familiar with the TDAI 2170 and it tends to be one of my recommendations for folks looking for a current and multi-functional integrated. I've also been actively following the Lyngdorf MP-50 since it's release...as a pre/pro for HT and 2ch integration. Other manufacturers have also done the same in their own ways. I believe Wadia was one of the early leaders in this area. NAD also comes to mind. We are also starting to see a number of higher end All-In-Ones from a number of the players in audio electronics. By AIOs, I mean much more than an integrated with DAC. The move to modular builds alleviates concerns regarding future proofing. Another example: Meridian's move to close to an all in one solution in their speakers is another way the industry will be moving forward. Exogal also believes it is on to something. I'm hopeful that they have a one box solution in the works. I own their Exogal Comet Plus - Exogal Ion combination. It is a very good product. ------------------------------------ @porscheracer: Schiit Audio definitely kicks the value ratio up into the sky. All the way up to Tyr! : ) I have the Yggdrasil as my main DAC and it is fantastic. It is being fed a highly optimized USB stream. Something to consider for whichever DAC you choose. You probably know this, but in case not, there are those that swear that AES/BNC is better with the Yggy. USB isn't the only option. Other ways to go would be down the i2S rabbit hole and LAN to Optical conversion. Also a word of caution...since you are going all Schiit in your chain...this may be too much of a 'like-like-like' good thing. Their tubed components will help in this regard. Warmer cabling will also. Their gear also needs long break-in times, so be prepared to wait it out. Since you will be one of the first Vidar owners, I'm looking forward to hearing from you on how they work for you in general and specifically pair with the DIs. BTW, forgot to mention this earlier. Nice on racing your modded '87. -------------------------------- Thanks to all for your ongoing thoughts. I'll repeat what others have already mentioned, this thread has been terrific for my learning and ongoing education. Though, Kenny, I'm still looking for that enlightenment thing you brought up. Agon as Peepal Tree??? :) |
Just to add to the discussion of where audio technology is going and what some consider to be SOTA. There is a great thread over on AudioCircle regarding the JBL M2 and 7 Series speakers. JBL has done a lot of work interfacing these well-made speakers with digital room correction and digital power. Its a fascinating read if anyone is interested. Here is the link: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149780.0 |
Porscheracer, your Schiit/Tekton DI would indeed make a very formidable budget system. I owned the Yggy for two years and still consider it one of the best DACs I've owned. Another formidable budget system would be Linear Tube Audio with the DI's. I'm using their $1800 preamp/headphone amp to drive the DI's and its one watt of pure class A drives them beautifully into the mid 90 db range. For concert level rock or classical it won't suffice, but LTA is coming out with their new ZOTL 10 with an upgraded power supply soon for $3000 and that would be plenty of power for the DI's. Just thought I'd throw a tube option your way. It's great having companies like Tekton, Schiit, LTA and others that are passionate about building quality audio products at prices the common man can afford. |
grannyring: Do you use an upgraded power cable to your 2170? Have been told this makes a genuine improvement with Class D amps and am getting a Nord in a week or so. Will not, btw, be buying a $3k power cord... As your post suggests, I am very, very tired of cable connections. Have 15 large boxes of cables in the garage (neatly categorized, LOL) and still have to get an additional premium cable every time a new component arrives. Did you decide on the HDMI or USB connection from your server to the Langdorf? Found with the Emotiva XMC-1 that the HDMI connection to the computer was significantly more linear than the USB one. But this might be the results of the XMC-1's architecture. Enjoyed your noise comments -- thanks. |
@david_ten I've had my Yggdrasil since late February and Freya since mid May. I have a real nice selection of 6SN7 tubes for Freya. The only new components will be the two Vidar amps. I use Pangea XLR interconnects to connect everything and Mogami 3103 speaker cable. Currently, I am using my MacBook Pro as an audio source. USB sucks so I use a Singxer F-1 DDC to feed the Yggdrasil via S/PDIF coax. The sound improvement is quite noticeable. Soon I will be getting Ethernet->AES/EBU Roon endpoint which will cut out USB altogether. @mac48025 I have a heard time believing that 10 watts, much less 1 watt, is enough to properly drive the Double Impact speakers. Plus, I have no desire to spend $3K or more on a stereo amp with just 10 watts. |
I had a hard time believing 1 watt could properly drive the DI's but I took Terry Londons advice and gave it a try. It's been a VERY pleasant surprise. I was very skeptical before trying it yet it sounds much better than my 220 watt SS Monoblocks or 25 watt PP tube amp. Reaching mid 90 db without any discernible distortion with one good watt is quite amazing to me. I too used to think one needs to get more wattage to justify higher cost, but like many here I've been shown that with HE speakers like the DI's, very few quality watts are needed to provide beautiful music. |
@porscheracer I’ll have to reach out to you regarding the Singxer. I invested in USB early, so I’ve stayed with it but I think it’s time to try some of the other (and likely superior) options. Not sure where you stand on the ’cable thing’ but I’ve had good results squeezing more out of the Yggy. Next step is isolation. What are you looking at for the LAN to AES Endpoint? Bottom line, with respect to the Double Impacts, as everyone has mentioned, you will be able to hear the changes you make. |
@david_ten The best setup I found to feeding Yggy via USB was using a UpTone Audio ISO Regen/USPCB/LPS 1 combo going to the Singxer F-1 then to Yggy using a 1.5m coax OFC cable. That sounded fantastic. The LAN to AES solution should be announced in the next couple of weeks. I can't talk about it much yet but the price is VERY reasonable! I can't wait to get the speakers and the amps!! Otherwise I am ready to go! |
@craig159 Yes I use an upgraded power cord and one I have found to be very, very good. Mike at Audio Archon can make you one using Furutech cable and high quality carbon cased connectors. It is called the "blue" cord. Stunning and affordable. I paid some $250 for a 3 footer if I recall. Very fair price as I also built the same cord and did not save that much. I only have the usb input on my 2170 as my server is set up to provide the best sound via USB. I also modified my 2170 power supply a tad. |
grannyring: thanks. another case of this thread working -- will contact Mike tomorrow. BTW, love the name... David_ten: Have been using JRiver constantly for 4 years and have a background in relational databases (what it is). It has a severe learning curve and the documentation the Help button provides is of little help. At first, learn that the app is designed not to actually hold the music files (they are put wherever you send them during the rip process) but, instead, to organize data about those files and present that data through a library format. So I have a main library for pop music, a classical library, and other, specialty libraries for specific interests such as Bernstein. Within that library, each ripped CD is held as a file folder. The folder names each track and you can customize all information as you like. The data is brought in through what is termed "metadata." When you rip a CD, the program will look to an online database and match the specific timings of the total tracks to match up with the text. It is important to make sure you select the right metadata source at this time. Also, the online connections have now gotten large enough to provide the album picture in almost all cases. In JRiver, you spend time in the Tools/Options area and in the Player/DSP one. These format and arrange for file processing. JRiver is one of the best database apps I have encountered and, at its very low price, is a no-brainer for me. THERE IS, however, a genuine learning curve. The result, however, is truly worth the effort. |
What about dynamic range and headroom? I have always found low power setups, even great low power setups, to sound a little flat when driving large speakers...even very efficient large speakers. This has been especially true with some classical recordings. I have also noticed clipping, even with tube amps, that I didn't hear with higher power amps. |
porscheracer, What about dynamic range and headroom? I have always found low power setups, even great low power setups, to sound a little flat when driving large speakers...even very efficient large speakers. This has been especially true with some classical recordings. I have also noticed clipping, even with tube amps, that I didn't hear with higher power amps. You bring up some very valid points and I'm certainly not trying to change your mind about the equipment that you already have,you stated before that you are just waiting on speakers and pwr amps to show up and then you will have a complete system. I would just like to share my experience and opinion about this gear,I was shopping around for speakers and I came across this thread and read about the DI's and all the positive info,then I read a review about them and I decided to call Eric about them,He is a very busy guy and the conversation was'nt all that informative,so I decided to do my homework about the design and call again and ask some very specific questions that I really didn't think he would answer.So I was interested and took the chance and got myself a pair,I have listened to a lot of high end gear in my 31 yrs in this hobby and I'm still in amazement every day that they sound this darn good. The DI's are efficient but they also have a relatively flat impedance load which makes them a very easy load for about any amp you would want to use. I also use a MZ2 as well and I still can't believe how good the little guy sounds and also how well 1watt can drive such a big speaker,my room size is 20x25x9 with a open kitchen and I sit 10 ft away.I can generally play any genre of music that I listen to and receive db levels in the low to sometimes mid 90's ,with no loss of bass,or dynamic range and I have yet to hear any compression or clipping in the sound,that is with the volume knob at the 3 to 4 o'clock position and if I turn it all the up it gets only slightly louder but still has no issues.If I listen to a full orchestra music or classic rock and want it louder than I do need a little more pwr.But I'm talking very loud with levels peaking above 95db,I don't generally listen that loud anyway. I have used several amps of several types mainly for fun,low pwr to high pwr and I have found I don't need more than 10 watts and can also just use the MZ2 most of the time. I have also found out that the MZ2 driving lesser quality SS amps such as the parasound a21 can help them sound better than any other preamp that I have ever used. I tried the Freya earlier this year and Offcourse gave it a fair chance with nos tubes and enough breakin time but I sent it back before the trial period ended,I mainly bought it for my 2nd system but I found it to be noisy and not really sound that good,But remember I'm a picky audiophile,buy I do like my Yggy. Best, Kenny. |
Since I’ve been recently serious in my reflections, reaching out to my tube loving brethren with some lighter fare. Your take on this quote from Art Dudley? "If tubes are liquor, the 300B is clearly absinthe. The 2A3 is Cognac, the 45 is Armagnac, the F2a is Tequila, and the EL34 is vodka—which is to say, you can make almost anything out of an EL34, from the repulsive to the sublime." Are then the Double Impacts the ’equivalent’ of a breathalyzer? And a sommelier? |
Lance, I'm not a engineer so I can't explain why the ZOTL amps sound so good but theyre different from any other tube design out there. To me the sound is very powerful, dynamic and fast. It has the best qualities of tubes and SS combined. I'm not a engineer either but I'm learning more about this technology only because I'm interested. I have never heard any of Bernings designs all of these yrs till know and I'm just highly impressed of their magical qualities. I'm using my MZ2 with the Zotl40,which is way more pwr than I will ever need,but I've always been a fan of the EL-34 tube and I'm using 1966 Mullard XF2's that I have had for a long time,They still probably test near 100%. The sound is simply wonderful,very fast,powerful,plenty of color but not Technicolor,dynamic,excellent overall clarity,and wonderful tone overall. I truly agree they have some of the best qualities of SS and tubes combined. Maybe you will try your Zotl40 in your system and give us your thoughts. Best, Kenny. |
@kdude66 - In my dedicated listening room I'm running a MZ2-S and a ZOTL40 with NOS Mullard's powering my Janszen hybrid electrostats. This is providing me with the best sound I've ever heard in my home and amongst the very top contenders I've heard at any shows. Regarding Art Dudley's quote: If I get anymore tube goodness I will have to and pick up a white chip. |
Craigl59 Mods performed to my Lyngdorf 2170, I installed an Audio Magic Pulse ZX and Mad Scientist Neo Kegs in the power supply. In addition, I upgraded the output caps to Jupiter replacing the Wima caps. I also used constrained layer damping material throughout the chassis and other key areas. Lastly I bypassed the binding posts and "direct wired" the output leads to the speaker cables using the posts as a clamp only. |
I did quite a bit of cycling once upon a time. The most insanely dedicated cyclist I've ever met is David Berning (ZOTL designer). 150 miles in a day? No big deal. He once delivered an amp strapped to the back of his bicycle. The man doesn't own a car. @grannyring - i bet getting rid of the speaker binding post made good improvement. |