Take a look my site all my speakers based on Tang Band 2145
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just did. I really like your latest 002AB model.
I'm sure your Fostex tweet matches the Dali super tweets.
In bass I;'m sure your bass drivers match/surpass Wilsons' dual woofers.
But again, for my needs in classical music, its all about midrange.
Here is where you gain the advantage with the Tang Bnad 2145,,,on your site you mention **Tang band paper driver***, no where did I see 2145..
You might want to update that bit of info..
This way potential buyers know the driver is not the 1808 and 1772.
Its my hunch the 2145 is the superior speaker. vs its 2 siblings, 1772/1808.
Great work on your true full ---complete total--- fq design
Sens is super high, fit for any amplifier.
I'm running the Tang Band 2145 with a Jadis Defy and a EL 34, both pack power and work with good results (vol gain no more than 9 oclock, = mid SPL (80ish)in my small room) with the high sens WBer.
Ideally maybe a SET is superior, but any sized PP will also work.
I listen at 8:30 on the Jadis DPL line stage vol....near field, . seated 8 feet from speaker.
After owning the Seas Thors some 15 yrs,, its such a good feeling have a WBer on the speaker lines.......
Niceee
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am I getting on anyones nerves yet??
;-)) |
so i type in
Wilson Speakers/65M hits
Dali Speakers/30M hits
Bache Audio Speakers /588k hits.
Proof consumerISM/Commercial/ISM/Popular/ISM
might be a deceptive snakeoil that takes one off a path to find a better speaker.
Argue please.
I never ever follow the crowd.
From my studies in Jung, collective man often leads to the lesser choice.
Please argue
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I do suffer froma bit of alzheimers disease,
I am sorry. My mother passed from frontal temporal dementia. I am done here. Please work with someone like Bache that can build you the appropriate cabinet for your driver. There is more to get out of them than what you are currently getting. Listen to his advice on how to get the most out of them. Good luck with your speakers. |
I might have posted this link somewhere in this topic, or elsewhere. Here it is a 2nd time. Note This tech geek has heard quaite a few of the BIG names, The Popular Vote Speakers. Great you like them. WEll in this discussion the OP points out there are in fact, does acutally exist a alternative to the xover.low sens types. (Note how i always include the db spec when discussing the speakers in your room, LOW SENSitivity, as this is their major weakness) Anyway, Read through the thread,,which i need to make time for as well. Consider it a EDU 101/wide band assist concept. I will not be posting much any more, and I know well this topic will get pushed under the bus when I'm gone. Down to Audiogon's dungeon. But at least its loged in and others may run across it in their researches. Had I not brought up this topic, ,,well there is 2 or 3 other Wide Band topics here,,but all have been buired undera mounatin of xover COMMERCIAL/CONSUMER speakers,. Sound for the average audiophile. Vandersteens, Thiels, Wilson,s KEFs. Focals. Harbeths. etc ETC https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/crossover-points-and-augmented-wideband-driver-speakers.25401... |
@mozartman , this tread was start by my first appreciated customer
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Magnesium is a metal, it's refined from magnesia in it's mineral form, being oxidised, as it's very reactive.
Any Brits in here might recall that it's use in British battleships came into play during the Falklands battle (I wouldn't call it a war, Argentina didn't stand a chance). Anyway, the magnesium on the battleships caught fire, as the magnesium burnt very hot.
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To me, the big takeaway from this discussion is the importance of using drivers that permit the crossover points being moved out of the heart of the midrange. I've heard one way, two way and three-way systems utilizing wide range drivers that permit this, and when properly implemented, such systems sound terrific. My local, Washington DC audio shop, Deja Vu Audio, builds custom systems based on this principle. They have one and two way systems using full range dynamic drivers.
But for my taste, it is their horn-based systems that are the best, and they employ horn/compression drivers to handle the bulk of the frequency range. Some of their systems are crossed over as low as 200 hz to the woofers and around 10,000 hz to the tweeters; that is a wide range being handled by the midrange drivers. Horns that can go as low as 200 Hz are giants, but, Deja Vu has some folded horns that are reasonably compact and can work as low as 500 Hz.
The BIG plus of both the horn and wide-range dynamic driver systems is that they are all very efficient, which means they can be driven by low-powered tube amps, another specialty of Deja Vu Audio (they make their own low-powered tube amps or sell brands that specialize in tube amps--Audio Note, Synthesis, Conrad Johnson).
Everyone who doubts that a wide-band driver can sound good even as a single driver system should make the effort to hear some of the systems made by Charney Audio, Voxativ and Cube Audio; they might change your mind. |
Everyone who doubts that a wide-band driver can sound good even as a single driver system should make the effort to hear some of the systems made by Charney Audio, Voxativ and Cube Audio; they might change your mind.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have no doubt a singler HIGH TECH MODERN WBers could very well be acceptable, and enjoyable, in my classical muisc.
For those seeking the huge soundstage LOUDspaekers of the 70's, 80s and through even today's times,, may not likea single,, or lets say a single WBer at 100db spl,, may not be what they are looking for.
So they go Wilson, Dali, Vov Schwiezgert (sp error) at $100k with Accuton drivers.
There are at least 100 top selling speakers on the market. Buyers bonaza, Flea markat Galore.
We WBer cultists, once we hear a good WBer , we never can do back to xover low sensitivity types.
WE lived with them for decades, Now in our elder age, we are more bold, daring, inquisitive and a bit smarter I should say,
WBers is what we 've always been looking for, but never knew it.
The multi driver WBer system seems a more full rich experience vs a single speaker.
But I don't know , maybe Cube with their strange 2 and 3 whizzer cones have something special also AER's big priced. speakers.
I put together a Frankenstein and have no interest looking futher.
I plan to add a DavidLouis Be witha huge Nd magnet.
My classical music does not require anymore than what I have.
But for others who prefer a lab to put togethera multi driver WBer system, sure I think they are not only making the wisest choice, but really the only choice.
Seas and Accuton's high tech midranges will not compete with a WBers midrange.'
Nice drivers, but sorry
~~No Cigar
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Yup, you’re smarter alright… |
"I will not be posting much any more".
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well if saying the same thing over and over, helps you, GOOD!!
Some folks wake up everyday, saying the same thing they did the day before. I call them Preachers.
Some folks remember what they said the day before and I call them TEACHERS.
You've said the same thing over and over.
You're the official POPE of WBer Wide Band..
Pope Mozartfan of the Wide band..
Amen |
You're the official POPE of WBer Wide Band..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hahaha good one
and its true, I am the offical LOUD speaker for WBers...
But guess what, I'm done preaching WBers,
ran out of things to say...
Now I am over on the amp page, preaching SET's as not only the best design, but the only design to consider if you are after true high fidelity.
The Ideologue and Iconoclast
Guess its the german blood in me that makes me say these things with such conviction.
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How did you arrive at the Avantgarde Duo as the only better system? I hope it wasn't via listening to a youtube video. I like that system, but, I don't think it would be universally loved by horn aficionados.
Also, how did you arrive at that particular amp in combination with that speaker as the best combination? Even if you heard a vast array of systems, it would be but a small fraction of what is out there.
How hard is it to see that your particular experience is extremely limited and cannot be extrapolated to encompass the universe? |
How did you arrive at the Avantgarde Duo as the only better system? I hope it wasn't via listening to a youtube video.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
YT allows me to get a glimpse of how a speaker will sound in my room.
I thought over the AG Duo 3.0 speakers,
Yeah its very accurate,
But the soundstage is wayyyy more that i want/need, /could live with.
Horns are very accurate, no doubt, But at 100+++ db sens, Not my cup of tea,
The sound is massive and overwhelming
This is what I came away with listening to the Avantgarde.
Lets say for 1) small listening room
2) near field
3) low /moderate SPL
I see WBers are not only the ideal musical experience, but really the best, wisest and only choice to fulfill the 3 requirements listed above.
Considering the Fostex 208EZ Sigma in a shootout with the DavidLouis.
Should be fun.
Just listening to Burt Bacharach/Elvis Costello /painted From Memory, Sept, 1998.
Davidlouis VX8
Really nice, laid back, could not ask anything more from a speaker.
Horns compete with the big Sonus Faber, Wilson, Von Schweikert V55, Dali speakers
Compression Horns and WBers have little in common.
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No, no, no. Youtube tells you nothing about the sound, much less the qualities you describe and the putative problems with nearfield, low level listening, and small rooms. I have not heard them under these conditions, but, I’ve heard many horn systems under these conditions and they excel. Horns are spectacularly good at low volume levels. That is why Japanese audiophiles love them in their small apartments with thin walls and requirement not to disturb neighbors (Japanese are culturally polite and considerate). |
Horns are spectacularly good at low volume
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peahaps true
But why pay for big horns , use at low vol???
When a WBers will do the job as good/better with less cash
Just cked out a few Fostex and Mark Audio YT vids, and looked over both drivers construct.
~~The Mark Audio did not impress me on female volcals, bass was super tight, deep.
~~Fostex, incredible highs, bass excellent,
Not sure if the mids surpass the DavidLouis.
I must have a whizzer so that cancels out the newest from Fostex, 208 E Sigma
I think the DLVX8 is going to prove over the years as best WBer under $1G.
Other than my DLVX8 uploads, there are no others.
Plenty on Mark Audio/Fostex.
Glad I could bring attention to this little known speaker.
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Why horns? Because they can deliver a sense of "weight" and scale that few other kinds of systems deliver. When people talk about how small monitors, for instance, can deliver a really expansive and impressive soundstage, I agree, but, while the soundstage may be wide, one senses that the individual instruments are miniatures. One gets a better sense of scale with big speakers, and most horn systems qualify as big. Yes, good horn systems are expensive and impractically large in size, but they deliver certain aspects of performance that even a decent system using wide-band conventional drivers rarely can match.
I have not heard the biggest Charney Audio offering, so I don't know if it gets there, but, their smaller Companion speaker is the closest thing I've heard in the wide-band driver world to a good horn system; a friend who heard it liked it, but thought it did not have enough weight to the sound. |
Wow dude I’m so happy for you that you like your Chinese widebanders better that the big expensive Wilson’s or Focals or blah blah . Good for you! |
But guess what, I'm done preaching WBers,
ran out of things to say... and yet you keep going
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and yet you keep going
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Not done yet,, Here in this vid i explain why i added the DL4, Just in time as it was about to get shiped to relatives, asa gift. I will now delete the ebay ad for the 6 and give them the Dl6 and keep thsi fantastic 4. Soundstage has even more presence , vocals are now rich and detailed. The Tang band W32141 looks nice, sounds great... , but I have the DL 4 and going to hold there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgWR6IbqOOg |
Adding the 4 inch has really exapnded the soundstage/presence.
This new speaker experience gives reason to re-calculate the stereo system equation.
Amplification 10%
Source 10%
Wires/cables 2%
Speakers 80%+
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So what you're saying is:
can if you wish. just add any of your fav tweets, + with a simple 2.2 or 3.3 cap.
Adding the 4 inch has really exapnded the soundstage/presence.
That wide band single driver speakers work much better as a three way? |
That wide band single driver speakers work much better as a three way?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WEll , lets tag what I have **designed* ,,as Adam said ot if, pre new add ons,,
**The Frankenstein**
Which pretty much is what IT is.
hehe
..so yeah its some sort of hybrid xover/WBer combo
W18E001's/87db + Paper tweeter/91db + WBer 8/92db + Wber4/91db.
Had my tech geek NOT stood at the doorway, and showed no signs of being impressed with my new all Mundorf xovers for the Thors.. I may not ever have embarked upon this WBer adventure/experiement/testing.
Its a evolution, it evolved, its near finsihed,,just have to swap out the paper tweet fora Beryllium Neo dymium magnet tweeter from DavidLouis.
2 way as in xover type+ WBer type.
3 way
Midwoofers + dual WB;'s + tweeter = 3 way.
Adding the 4 result in stunning soudstage gains.
Dang thing was just 1 month from heading over seas as a gift to relatives who can't afford such speakers...I'll give them the 6 which I can 't even give away on ebay.
The 4 and 6 made in same plant in china,,but the 4 has superior mids tighter bass and equal highs.
Same magnet, same cone material.
The 6 just did not mesh with the 8.
The only way you can match a 4 and 8 is if the 2 have near identical mids.
Otherwise it will not work.
The 6;'s slightly stressed mids, lowered the overall fidelity from the 8.
The mids of the 4 and 8 are what we call in tube lingo *matched pair*
Other option is TBB2145 + TB2141, alottt less cash and near idetical results.
I said *near*,
IMHO DL gets the Gold in mids, mids in the TB Goldsilver
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I understand NOW, why the aded 4 DavidLouis has opened up the fidelity in my speaker system...GOT IT...
of course around here in this anti-wide band club,,no one is in the least bit interested as to *the why**,,and for that neglect, disdain,,I ain't about to give up the goods...
Nice day.
The Wide Band Geek
Diana Krall, When I Look into Your Eyes cd, never sounded so ,,magical, so stunning, rich, accurate soundstage.
Now Diana has become vividly real |
Go Tang band w32178 with the TB 6, scratch the TB2141 W4 |
try W4-1320 for 4" or W3-1364 for 3" also bamboo paper cone, they are winners i use in my smaller floorstanders |
don't like t he looks of either The only TB I would consider putting up against the DaviDlouis 4 is the TB w3 2178 Most likely I will order that speaker,, $260/pair,,waiting for a holiday sale,,if not in jan/feb i'll order a pair but really I doubt its going to match the DavidLouis in mids. Then again...it might... btw this DL4 is now out of stock and who knows when back in production,,if ever,,all because of a EU source not making that tiny 3 inch cone... music starts at 6:35 92db, TB's W3 at 88db...I'd much prefer the 92db. To match the DLVX8's 92db. Synergy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgWR6IbqOOg&t=317s |
scratch the Tang Band w32178
Its Tang band W31878
I'd like to snag a pair at $200, but if I gotta pay the piper's 260,,I;'m willing.
Those lil guys have been out for som time now,,I think years ago the price was under $100,, my guess is when Tang band figures out the true value of each model, the prices go either down or up. In this case a nice 50% increase.
I love Neo Dymium magnets,, but in this model,, TB employs those round *pills*,
Like Voxativ.
Its a cheap way of employing highest quality magnets.
The tiny pills in the Voxativ was too weak, rendering the Voxativ AC1A a dud, a complete bomb.
In this TB case,, its only a 2- 3 inch cone, and magnet structure looks more than adequate.
DavidLouis employs a huge neo dymium manget for its 4 inch.(3 inch acutal cone).
IMHO the DaviDlouis 4 is the finest W4 on the market.
Its no longer in production and seller has no clue when it will be back.
Now he lists a cheap 5 inch that looks like worthless trash. |
Actually, the speaker in the video was the AG Uno, not that would have changed MF's perspective on anything. |
@mozartfan BTW, I watched your YT video where you were using RG's bread board SET amp to drive the David Louis WBs. Be advised that the powertube used is the 50 tube and not the 250 tube (is there even such a thing???) and the amp uses two (2) of them. You might consider making that correction. |
acresverde253 posts10-11-2021 9:33pm@mozartfan BTW, I watched your YT video where you were using RG's bread board SET amp to drive the David Louis WBs. Be advised that the powertube used is the 50 tube and not the 250 tube (is there even such a thing???) and the amp uses two (2) of them. You might consider making that correction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes correct at his shop on tuesday,,, he did say **The 50 tube**, and forgot to have him clarify that, = Not 250 tube. Thanks SETs are not wimpy,, RG employs a colbalt in the out trans. Small but super powerful and not cheap. That SET has equal the big Defy's power + bass slam. I do not understand much dif in output froma SET vs a PP. AS far as employing a higher sens speaker is concerned. I note there are other WBers with a 94++ db sens. No way I'd be interested in anything about my 92 dbsens. Actually 90/91db is ideal. The DLVX8 is 92db the DLW4 states 91db. I can note a difference in the 1 db sens The DLW4 highs are definetly rolled off, say 10khz, (??) , but has quick tight bass kick maybe 80hzish,,, you;d be surprised at the lil punch in bass. . Mids are accurate/clean The VX8 has at least 45hz bass, if not the 40hz as claimed on the specs. Highs are there, whether its 12khz or 12khz+, I do not know, and am not at all interested where the roll off begins. You can hear the snares with sparkles. Miles Davis via DavidLouis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcjYiZztHgM |
at least in my speaker demos, I give you some ideas how the speaker actually performs, LIVE, vs your comp speaker rendition.
I wouldn't lie by the way.
Nothing snakeoil, fake comments, no pumping.
Straight up.
I've read enough comments on the 2 most popular brands right now to know to keep it real.
btw I am not going with the Tang Band3 1878 as the 3rd wide bander in my 2 way WBer system. No, I rethought it through,,,thankfully i did not order the TB 1878.
Fora few bucks more I can get the 'DaviDlouis VX6
I looked over Teks and Zu's,
Both offer multi criver systems.
So I figured if these 2 super hot labs (more folks are buying Teks and Zu's at the moment that any other speakers)
If these 2 big time labs are making multi driver speakers why can't I.
??
anyone?
That purchase will have to wait til I get out of the wide band experiementation debt.
And after i buy a 845 amplifer.
Hang in there,
Either the DLW4 will stay or the DLVX6 will take its place.
My system could bea 3 way WBer or a 2 way WBer.
Its anyones guess at this point.
Hang in there new developements are in the plans.
Just need some audio cash.
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I finally opened the YouTube link. Sounds like a small transistor radio.
That is all….. |
Yeah well if you want to finance my YT speaker Project demo, for a superior cam please gofundme
The sony cam is all I could afford and does present my demo as trans radio.
But again, if you hear Enrique Caruso sing in the Rome Opera House and he also sings in your bath with door closed are you going to tell me you will not recognize Caruso's voice from your shower? As the same cantor as in Rome's Opera house?
All I am doing is givinga basic hint at how my speaker system performs.
If there were any weaknesses I'd sure let everyone know.
For my CM its perfection.
btw the DLVX8 is NOT 92db as stated it is ~~95db~~~ right there with the AER/Vox
But the higher up the sens ladder you go, less solid punchy bass.
AER has like 96 db sens which is wayyyy too high for my use.
95db sens is the ultimate limit you want in a speaker
Sorry AER/Vox I must be truthful here.
which reminds me , time for another comment on the Voxativ AC1A.
Sounded like the old transistor radios we used to buy back in the early 60’s, they were like $5.99.
w ear plugs.
Thats the way I would describe the performance of the VOXATIV AC1A with Neo Dymium Magnet motor.
AC1A @ $1900/pair
Obviously not recomended for hifi.
2 big thumbs down. |
what you hear on your $10 comp speakers is EXACTLY what you will get in your listening room.
This is exactly what you said on your very first follow up post on this thread.
The sony cam is all I could afford and does present my demo as trans radio.
This is what you say now.
If there were any weaknesses I'd sure let everyone know.
I am not buying this. You are clearly unhappy because you keep changing, adding, deleting drivers. It is a mess and you know it. |
Its compressed, for sure, my tech says its ridiculous to try convince folks of a sound they really can;’t hear up live.
well I told him, if Enriqo Caruso sang at the Rome Opera House, and then sang same arias in his shower, door closed,
Are you going to tell me you will not recognize Caruso;s voice in your shower as same guy at the opera house??
I am making adjustments/tweaks/mods to the configuration.
Everyone just hang tight til i find some cash to finish the design.
Just glad i held off on the Tang Band W3 1878, as the DavidLouis VX6 might be, in fact most likely will be the finishing touch.
’Not to say we can’t add in the TB1878 next year when more cash is avaliable.
Might keet the DLW4 along with the TBBW3,, but hunch says, only 1 will stay, and my guess is the TB1878 will beat out the DLW4.
The DLVX6 looks likea winner. I studied the driver’s pics very closely for about 2 hours.
I know what i see.
Just hang in there next year Frankenstein will live.
Could be a 6-7 driver per channel speaker.
Just crazy.
A real monster just like Frankenstein.
He’s going looking for Wilson’s top dawg for a shootout.
You know the model, the one Wilson makes for the Dubai Oil sheiks
**You mean the $950G speaker?*
Yep thats the one.
6+ drivers vs 6+ drivers.
I'm giving Mr Wilson the Jadis JA800, I;m taking my tech's modded Dynaco ST70 EL34
Giving Mr Wilson everything he needs to get his mega monster to sing top form.
Monsta vs monsta.
My system will have 3 separate cabinets, all combined under 100 lbs.
vs the Wilson monster at 300+ lbs.
David vs Goliath |
Ok you could very well make a system with dual tang bands, 2145 + 1878 and end up with close to same results as in this dual davidLouis Pity the sound in this vid is severly compromise. These WBers bring this legendary concert to a near real experience. Its that good. anyhoot here goes, Mahvishnu Orchestra Live CP 1973 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdggD3H8F2A |
Talk about fingernails on a blackboard. UGH! |
I made it through to the end of the MO cut but it was rough. The sound was thin, confused and threadbare. What a cacophony, a jumble of noise. Didn't seem like there was any info at or below 100hz. In defense of the WBers, though, could any system make that cut sound better than noise??? |
Oh, and 1973 was more like 50 years ago...not 30. |
For some reason this Live Mahvishnu did not record very well. I was trying to get Billy Cobham drums on the vid. the whole things sounds low fi. Soory about that...any hoot, so I was looking for some 8uf caps to ship off to a friend overseas with the paper tweets i was dumping,, + He gets the Davidlouis yellow cone W6 WBer, which i can't sell on ebay,,,and while looking through my stash of caps all taken from the Millennium xover, I saw soem 8ufs EVO's Silvergold.
I looked at a fq/uf cap chart for tweeters,
8uf takes it down to like 5khz.
I figured let me try a 8 uf, see how it performs on the paper tweeer.
Much much better,
The Mundorf SESGo 2.2 was chopping the tweeter off at 10jhz.
maiking the tweeter restricive/compressed/dull.
The 8uf opened the paper tweeter.
Now the soundstage has taken on more ambience, more sheen.
Can't believe small tweaks can make a huge pop in sonic gains.
I'm expecting the Davidlouis' clone of the Scanspeak's Be/Nd tweeter to offer stunning resolution.
Taking The Speaker Project one step closer.
That is set for march/april.
WBers absoluetly must have a tweeter of your choice. Either a 8 uf or 10uf are the ideal values.
6uf kicks in the tweeter too high fq, 13uf takes the tweeter too low.
Tweeters begin to show stress under say 4khz.
Besides the dual WBers have plenty of fq's at the 4khz range. Dont need the tweet to go lower than 5khz. |
And no, even Mr Carlson with his Star Trek looking gadget test room , would convince me of what I assume to be true
That Midwoofers don't do so well above 1800hz and tweeters start to break up below say 3khz. Especially on highly complex passges of symphonic orchestra.
Thats a substantial range, critical, 1800hz - 3khz.
Thick with grueling midrange complexities.
Here is where WBers shine.
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Here are some tidbits of the article linked below:
Full-Range Drivers are ubiquitous We all listen to full-range drivers everyday.
The smallest are in earphones, cellphones and other devices.
Their "one-driver is best" mantra can actually be agreed to even by those non-aligned. Who would not want a crossover-less driver that can do everything? But real conditions are not so simple.
Most DIY full-range setups are in some ways, if not woefully, inadequate, not to mention not at all full-range
https://cheaptubeaudio.blogspot.com/2019/10/full-range-drivers-audio-nirvana.htmlFull range crossover speakers as a concept are very desirable and properly implemented quite good. The key is properly implemented. |
