Makes perfect sense to do so (and it's cheap).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Correct
I was listening via the pair of 1.5 inch full range,,sounded ok,,then i fliped over the sub 3 inch woofer module,,a nd now the bass can be heard much better.
Its far from acutal presence, but gives an idea and smashes the long held notion , myth that WBers lack some bass extention.
Which may very well have been true with the old dated technology/designs, Lowther and Fostex.
Which is why I distinguish old tech vs new high te4ch.
= Not the same.
Big improvements have been achieved.
Another dis-information that needs to be canceled out.
All WBers are about equal/the same.
Completely not true.
We have garbage
OK/acceptable with issues
Then we have the true Sopranos and Tenors.
I only am interested in the very finest offerings, Sopranos/Tenors.
Nada mas. |
You do realize most of us have had, or have heard full range drivers, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I doubt 1% of all Agon members heard a NEW high tech.
I am not talking about Lowther and Fostex,
Neither of which i 've heard.
But know neither match the 2 new high techs.
I've heard 6+ wide bands, most do not qualify as high fidelity speakers.
To gain that award, a speaker must make near perfect midrange.
Equal to Seas Thors.
Most here have yet to hear a old design.
I don't believe you.
WBers are more for the DIY geeks.
|
|
WOW listening to Jacinitha's vocals,,, just STUNNING....hummm, may have to ,,, reorder the TB2145,, parts Exprss just gave a refund on...ahhh, should have kept them around for futher testing..... ahhh, not too smart,,, what you hear on your $10 comp speakers is EXACTLY what you will get in your listening room. I mean one word, STUNNING Life like sound stage. jazz fans take note and pay close attention to this speaker. Your jazz will never sound as good as on this TB2145. Here is the TB 5 inch 2143 in action, Seems to my ears, suffers froma bit of stressed mids,. Not sure why The 5 and 6 inch WBers do not perform as well in midrange as the bigger 8 inchers. You can't hear the stress in the voice, I can Trsut me, the 8 inch wide bands are superior in midrange and bass vs the smaller cone WBers, Which is why I guess TB discontinued the 5 and 6 inch WB models. Just stay 8 inchers for best bang in all 3 fq's levels. Here the 5 in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IwlR1DNnto |
Here maybe one of you guys can detect which is the superior, So you have the TB2145 in Jacinitha above Here's the DLVX*/Jacinitha. ,,,OK as i say in the vid,, I really can't give you a vote twix the TB2145 vs DLVX8,,,just hearing both on this YT vid,, I think I may know why I went with the DLVX8. Maybe , just maybe I prefered the voice/mids over the TB which has a superior crystal like highs. Bass was near identical. Which is odd, as both cones are completely dif materials,,,??? How these 2 speakers ended up sounding near twin like, is a a mystery. A real baffling oddity. Anyway, Yes Diana Krall's voice does come across exactly as you hear in this vid over your $10 comp speakers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bu1ubemykAYour Magnepan's can't compete. |
If the video is what it really sounds like in person, it is a distorted, muddled mess. That video is truly awful.
Should we believe you?
Why should we believe your opinion is accurate??
If you do not like the wide bands comming from china, you are are free not to make the purchase,
If you feel I am hyping, then hang with your box speakers, We live in the USA where freedom rings,, well actually that freedom bell is getting a bit rusty ,,if you know what i mean...
WBers rule. |
You guys are jealouse i found the true high fidelity,
Stick with your boom boxes for all I care.
wayyy over priced boxes of fatigue is the only way I can describe all the speakers I've heard these past 40 years. |
Not for me
How can you say not for me, when you've never in your life hearda wide band, most likely never will.
There is alot of narrow mindedness in audio these days.
I'm so glad I was true to my ancestral spirit and started tinkering with wide bands.
No help here I can see that.
had to make the discovery all on my own efforts.
You guys want to live as cave men in things of audio, go right ahead.
Like Plato wrote, Socrates says mankind lives as if in a dark cave, just barely seeing a pin point of light at the opening
YET thinking he is in the light.
Deceived and deluded.
so true what he wrote back 2600 years ago, true then, more so true today.
|
Altec;'s are dateed.
You guys need to dump the old techs and get into the new high techs.
'hats off to Altec for what they brought you.
But we must move on to high fidelity.
This is not 1990, we are 2 decades into the 21st C.
Folks are free to stay with old low sens box types, if they wish,
I 'm with the chinese , audiophiles that dumped the low sens for the new highs ens wide bands.
In this case I think the chinese audiophile is either a bit more honest, or a bit more smarter.
I think its both.
vs the USA audiopFool
|
Still if the DLVX8 and TB 2145 both smash , completely totally 100% annihilated , pure smack down of ONE OF (not the best, but darn close)the worlds best speakers,, The Seas Thors....
Both will give the best low sens speakers a good run for the money.
Wide bands do everything my Thors do, but superior.
|
The avg chinese audiophile lacks the disposable income the USA audiophile has the luxury of indulging.
Americans like things of impressive grandeur
It only makes sense the USA audio guy is going to jump on the big fancy box. Its what we all grew up with and always dreamed of owning one day.
The best wide bands are designed and made in china , so they have easy access and better prices.
Bsides maybe the avg chinese audiophile understands music as i get the music, that midrange is everything in a speaker,.
The USA geek loves his big bad bass slam,, and towering waves of shrilling highs.
I get that.
A single wide band does most of what the $1M Wislon does, , say about 90%.
I don't know, maybe I;m over fanatic about these new high tech wide bands.
Let me say i have no interest whatsoever cking out any of the Seas and Scanspeak speakers.
at 87db sensitivity i see that as a glaring, unacceptable flaw.
For all the weaknesses of the wide bands, its a much superior musical; exp.
You might hate the wide band thing.
But at least give it a consideration down the road.
Its a fair shake.
These 2 speakers have only been in the market,,my guess is 3-4 years each, So they are brand new and thus not well known nor understood how they work/sound.
|
Someone posted about how he is looking fora speaker in the 30G++ range that does everything perfectly,,,, and then everyone starts making all sorts of suggestions of the usuals,, wilsons, sonus fabers, etc etc,,,I can only chuckle, How often has it been crissled in stone here on Audiogon over the past 2 decades, Graet sums of cash does not always (usually does NOT) equate into superior sound. IOW Best bang might/might not come with throwing big bucks. IMHO big bucks means nothihng in audio I can put togerthera world class system for less than say ,,,5G's. And will match any system up to $1,5 million. add in another 500G's = 2Million. Money does not mean great sound. I wouldn't trade my WBers for the Wilson's $970G speakers. https://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/wamm/wamm-master-chronosonic |
extra points Heavy, my best to you, dog and rabbit. keep the water bowls full brother
~~~~~~~~~~
Your xover low sens speakers fail in what my WBers do best.
Never forget this truth. |
mozartfan: Is this your new place to come to and decompress after a hard day of being schooled @ Diyaudio? DeKay
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ hahaha and top let some of you guys knowm , you might have decided on the wrong speaker = My TB2145 DLVX8 can do things your $950k Wilson can't do,. Much LESS your Vandersteen, Thiels, Magnepa's. Nine Hundred and sixty thousands , worthless USA %'s,. and my 2 wide abnds smash in some things what the Wilson's are not capable of = Failed , reject. https://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/wamm/wamm-master-chronosonic |
Lets say foolish to be so stuck on a idea that may just have run its course, Foolish in the sense the new tech may be something superior,, and not even taking the time to ck it out as a possiblity to what they have in their systems.
I see a sense of stubborn resistance.
There is no discussion of wide bands on this site, Its almost like a low sens xover cult religion around this forum.
Its like low sens/xovers are the ultimate,,, our idols...
Whereas I see it as hadicapped garbage.
I;'m done with half music, with distortion/stress, , with fatigue, with coloration.
Low sens speakers are handicaped.
If I ever research speakers in the future (which i have no more plans to, after spending years trying to figure out the solution to the issues with the Seas Thors)),, I'd never even consider any low sens/xover types, Not even a speck of interest in anything low sens/xover.
For me its all 100% WBers
Or nada.
Xover /low sens single drivers only for added bass/highs. Stage hands, the tenors and sopranos are the WBers. |
Please refer to the topic
**low sens speakers what in the heck is just so super specuial about them???**
Los sens = all xover Seas Scanspeak types.
A-Z = Low sens
90db below
WBers 90db+
List the top 3 advantages of owing a WBer speaker.
List the top 3 reasons owning a Low db sensitivity
List the 3 reasons NOT to employ a WBer as main speaker in your system. A-Z
List the 3 reasons not to own a Vandersteen, Wilson, Thiel, Magnepan, Sonus Faber. KEF, Warfdale, Focus, A-Z
Any takers??
.....well waiting...Guess not....
I know why no answes....
No competition, where it really counts,, = The real true musical image.
Been a member here 20 years ago, seeking..
No solid real answes to my search.
I found it niow.
had to figure things out on my own, I recall my topic, Shooyout OK Corral.
About 100 pages long.. Some good info. But nothing that would help me connect the dots, Pleanty of ggood posts,.
But not one that could connect the dots.
Well its 20 yrs now, and finally I figured out how these WBers work.
Via experiemention and reflecting exactly whats going on with these speakers.
Vs My Seas Thors.
The Best of one class, vs the best of the other.
Only 1 gun slinger is left standing.
RIP Seas.
I've resurrected you to a place of adding some low fq's.
Your magnesium cone is 2nd to none.
But sadly your low sens is no match for a high tech WBer.
|
Its high tgime these low sens speaker get exposed,
Considering Stereophile has been pushing the snakeoil on these speakers past 20 years.
Will we see Stereophile reviewing a WBer?
Not going to happen.
|
What led me away 20 yrs ago from considering a WBer as my speaker of choice, , is that folks were posting something about a WBer needing SET amps..
It may be partly true
I’ve not heard a SET, But I don’t think I’ll like the 845 sound.
I prefer the EL34/KT88 type tube
Truth is, you can drive a WBer with just about any amplifer.
From the Jadis JA 800 4 chassis, 500 watts, all the way down to a SET 10 watt.
It certianly would be a waste of amp power to match a WBer 92 db sens to the JA800, wasted 490 watts.
There seems to be lack of understanding what the WBers are all about, how they perform and what are their potentials ina set up with other low sens drivers as assist mode.
This is a whole new field waiting for discovery and developments.
IMHO this set up is the speaker of choice for the 21st C audiophile.
We just need more adventurers, more experimentations.
Seems the Thors dual W18's will be useful afterall.
Adding nice bottom end to the DavidLouis VX8.
MORE than enough deep rich bass. Especially with my added EL34 amp, which has more bottom than the Defy .
But then i should say the Defy has kt88's that have 3k++ hours,, this may be a factor in Defy's lower performance vs the Dynaco clone ST70, with huge trans.
|
Consider me the counter weight to Stereophile's pumping spakers past 20+ years. Seas Thors worlds finest speaker. Before I closed out this post,, I decide to google **Seas Thor Review*** If you don't believe my opinion, ck this snakeoil-LESS review. **what caught my immediate attemtion,,,,,lack of coloration or OBFUSCATION** ,, = NO muddiness, like every xover box design I ever heard in my 40 yrs. All, A-Z suffer muddy midrange, . Lone exception is SEas Thor You guys just have no faith in my opinions,. Trust me Seas made the very finest Midwoofers/Millennium tweeter vs any other midwoofer/tweet on the palnet (IN ITS DAY, 2004.,,may have been surpassed, in the tweeter, not the MAGNESIUM midwoofer, which can never be surpassed. Magnesium destroys paper composites due to its lack of coloration neutralness in upper bass/lower mids.... Paper composites have a deep punch in lowest bass notes. Like drums. The WBers equal Seas Exel's neutrality/lack of coloration /detailed soundstage. Sorry Mr Wilson , your $950K speakers have their issues. Issues the Seas Thor has none of https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/speakers/302966/review-seas-thor-speakers |
You conveniently left out the parts that don’t back up what you claim about the Thors. "A taste of high end sound" is not the same thing as "the best in the world". That is some really classic cherry-picking and making up of things that weren’t even stated.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would hoe you could figure out the context of **worlds finest speaker*** , Knowing the reference is , **In its class size,** dual 6 inch woofers + tweet.
maybe can't6 compete with Wilson;'s massive 8 driver , 1000 lb speaker at $900G's. .
And maybe just matches Troel Gravesen's best 2.5 way designs.
Still the review is spot on saying the speaker does things no other speaker IN ITS CLASS can match.
In this sense
Worlds Finest Speaker..
Which I always hada huch it was that good of a sound,,IN ITS CLASS>
Don't believe, give Josh at Madisound a call.
Not sure if you are aware, Seas is one of the best, if not THE best low sens driver desiner lab in the world.
Along with Scanspeak.
Perfectly neutral speaker, no coloration, zero fatigue.
Unlike most low sens xover types with their muddy upper bass/low mids.
Vandersteen's and B&W's come to mind, among many others..
Magnesium, worlds best material for midwoofer cone musical resonances. |
Josh at Madisound. guess he’s your tech? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No, what happened was , I was asking Q’s about other speakers listed. maybe doing a Seas 3 way,, witha midrange.. WE were just chatting over the Thors, I mentioned how low coloration, and near zero fatigue, Josh brought up the value *Neutral* and this descript is really spot on. Unlike your A-Z xover types, Focals, vandersteens, which I’ve not heard, but judging the book by its cover (woofer cone material), which is guaranteed to have certain muddy resonances in upper bass/low mids. They all do. A-Z. Minus the magnesium, Which is the reason Seas chose that specific material. Go ask seas why they employ Mag,, my guess is for its neutral characteristics. Is my guess. You realize (I hope) Seas aint new at this speaker game. But many of you are not going to like the mag woofer, as you guys are must have your heavy sub bass super slam. For that super bass, you’ll have to go Scans . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6B6WjAzuc8&t=137sMy tech likes paper cone woofers. Old Philips 10 inch and Realistic Nova 7's, He likes to stack these speakers.(separately of course, ) I had the Philips 8 inch paper, really nice, but no cigar next to the Seas Magnesium., dual woofers. The Philips was my 1st entry into high fidelity. Philips in fact, placed the tag at the top of their speaker. High Fidelity labatories. Which they were in their epoch. The Thors destroy them. But double stack,, maybe not. hard to say. I had 2 pairs of Philips and had no idea about double stacking. With a single high sens WBer no need for doubling up the WBer.s I tried it. Midrange too thick for my small listening room. Even in a large room, dual WBers won't really work. Wilson attempts to compete with the WBers high sens, but placing alot of speakers in one cabinet. I'm sure they are nice sounding, but no cigar next to a single WBer in midrange. Sensitivity is everything in a speaker. makes any amplifier much more efficient. |
wo different Tang Band full range drivers (I cannot recall the model numbers) and I thought they were good, particularly for the money, but, if given a choice, I would take the BD2 i heard.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TB 1802 TB1775
Both great
I think the TB2145 is their best.
AER's are over priced. Sorry I don't pay for over priced speakers....
Some guy left a comment on my comment about the Vox Wide band..
Says **speakers are grossly over priced** = Vox /AER over priced = not worth the cash.\
I tend to agree.
the AER 1,2,3, maybe 5%/10% superior to the Davidlouis VX8.
At $550, I am not complaining,
Besides my classical music does not call for the superior quality of the Vox and AER.
The DavidLouis serves quite well.
|
So, you are dumping on speakers that you have never heard?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes |
discovery is the be all and end all of sound reproduction
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ caveats 1 being, some of us are poor audiophiles./ We just don't have the big bucks like some of you guys, with huge horn systems. My goal here is to help other newbies who are just starting out to be aware that there does exist a ~~~~Althernative~~~~ to the conventional,, highly popular and often promoted here on audiogon, The Xover Low sens speakers. If I did not raise awareness of these speakers,, they would never get any attention here,,which they at least deserve a old dusty corner on Audiogon. Kicked under the bus for so long. I am the lone WBer fanatic pumping these designs. So I am working OT to make sure they do get at least a 1 minute commercail, before being pushed down to limbo ~Audiophiles can fork out more and get less and sometimes spend less and get more~~~~ OK, dis/mis-information. Myth buster. ***wide bands roll off both ends, lacks vass slam and dull highs.*** Prejudiced falsehood, based on lack of real exp with these speakers, Only hear-say, Well here ya go, Stevie Wonders 1973, Too High. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_-7t63Oq0YIf you compalin about Vid quality,, please keep those snides to yourself Thanks |
So you are trying to boost hits with your links
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
More like trying to acheive a balnace around here.
The speaker board has been all, 100% about these low sensitivity *LOUD* speakers.
Time for a change.
My posts will eventually become sources of info for others down the road who would like to understand more about these **out the ordinary* speakers.
They are indeed different.
The low sensitivity box camp will have nothing to do with WBers, and we will remain faithful to what we know gives us the high fidelity we've always been searching for.
Again I will point out my experiement some months back/Thors on 1 channel,
WBer on the other.
Seas = The Wet Blanket Speaker.
No thanks.
|
were the manufacturer of these drivers, I would be looking to have a cease and desist order written for you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Obvuiously you are biased agaisnt WBers to the point of PRE-judice
Or you need new computer speakers.
The sound in the YT upload is quite accurate as to how they will perform in your system.
I have no idea why you are posting such unfair criticisms.
Really,,,just chill out,...
Cease and desist,,law suits, .
really, whats wrong, chill out, You don't like the sound in the video, just say so, but don't go on about law suits, and such..I mean really.... |
Look why don't you guys PM each other , come up with a top dawg xover type which midrange will match, equal, or surpass the Davidlouis VX8's midrange...
, None of you will come to any agreement,. Everyone will have their own vote and so will never arrive at a model that makes midrange so beautiful as a high tech WBer.
Whereas the 2 WB's I mentioned, along with the more expensive models, AER, Voxativ, all 4 will carry midrange with a high degree of fidelity and purity, cohesiveness/seamless imagery.
This is their inner strength.
The heart and soul of our music is in the midrange. |
listening to the Tang band 2145 in the video,, I know why I chose the DavidLouis VX8 over it.
But I will say at $250, really nice speaker, almost equal to the Davidlouis, highs a bit higher.
|
Seas Magnesiums in them (Tyler Acoustics Super Tower) which exhibited the same coloration. Clearly representative of the driver.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes Tyler and Joseph Audio, both employ the Magnesium midwoofers.
Coloration??
Did you read the link review I posted above.
3rd indepentent party, unbiased, down to earth review of the Seas Thors.
Sure SB Acoustics makes some beautiful speakers
No doubt, Scan speak as well.
Troels Gravesen employs all 3 and others.
He only uses the best drivers.
Look I should recant at least part of what i said above.
But not all.
Xover types are doable, if you are willing to accept their inner weaknesses and faults.
If low sens speakers define high fidelity in your music, great, , I guess its your free choice.
My purpose of this topic is to point out how superior high sens (=92db++) are for classical music, which are hidden many nuances low sens speakers miss out.
Jazz music as well is much more enjoyable overa a high sens WBer.
Transforms jazz into a magical experience.
.
Look if the Focals, KEF's, Vandersteens, Wislon;'s were as special as you suggest, why do folks dump them on the used market all the time?
And why can't you guys get a consensus on which are winners, and which are losers.
You guys have been promoting your own specail house sound speaker, where others are pumping their special flavor.
All low sens speakers have serious inner flaws, that need very expensive, complex xovers to attempt to correect these weaknesses
,
Quite a few tech geeks have already exposed the blantant ugly flaws in xovers, these gadgets suck the life out the musical source..,,,and really can not fix the low sens handicap.
Thiels, too flawed, B&W's the worst.
Your camp can't decide on any 1 xover type that can compete with the 2 wide bands above.
While us WBer cult, we know what we have, and never even consider going back to the xover low sens speakers.
Been there done THAT.
For Rock, R&B , yeah box speakers will work just fine, No special nuances required.
|
So- what’s the bottom line? This standard, basic version gives a real taste of vey high end sound at a true bargain price.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually did not read the Thor review, just a snipet.
So a taste of VERY high end.
Yeah thats accurate.
Not sure if you are aware the Millennium tweet is well known as a very accurate tweeter.
I sold the new pair off in 2 hours on Ebay at 60% off.
2 HOURS!!!!
But at 87db , not workable for my preferences with a tiny 3/4 inch VC, vs the WBers gorgeous whizzer, which radiates wider expanse of highs.
I just like the fact all 3 fq's 's are sourced at one point.
Also
For a really nice sound exp for my classical muisc which requires sensitivity to pick up low flute notes, and tiny hits of percussions.
Bottom line, i get everything the Millennium offered, but at a higher sensitivity.
|
your videos are doing those companies no favors. If I owned the company, I wouldn’t want you speaking for my product at all. You have no clue what you are doing.
There are countless YT vids on A-Z speakers,, I can trans at least some of the sound present in the vids. Thats all i am attempting to do,. Give those interested in WBer's a tiny morsel, a taste of what they might expect. The listener can take it or leave it. I cautally can hear things in the YT vid of the TB2145, that is now clear why I stayed with the davidLouis VX8. (although I could not return the DLVX* back to china..) I was actually thinking in running both as a pair, likea stacked WBer experiement.. In a large room, it might work. Ina lrage room and folks like high SPL, you could stack duals but both the same. Dual Tang Band 2145's would work beautifully for a massive sound stage. It would be a **WOW** experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxvVk-r9ut8 |
WOW
I was listening to the bass YT vid only via the top FR section of my $20 computer speakers,,,I decided to flip over the down firing sub portion, which houses a 3 inch woofer.
Now we are talking
Please do the same to REALLY hear these guys in action on Timipini bass.
|
Would that be because someone pointed these things out to you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No due to the DavidLouis has construuct that is cool and neat looking. Almost a clone of a german labs speaker. Mids were a tad better in the DLVX8 vs the Tang Band. Bass near identical. Why so, since both cones are completely dif materails,,I have no idea. Blind test, you'd be lucky to guess which is which, at least on some/most records. Glad you like your conventional LOUD speakers. And that you found the WB's lacking. Whereas I found them near perfect, if not perfect for my classical music. Here is a bass test, 4 pieces for Timipini, Elliott Carter. I give it 10/10 WB;'s are only 1 speaker option in the wide world of speaker designs. Here you get a hint at the bass response. YMMV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QtuLPchkt0 |
driven full range). I preferred the two-way configuration, but, not because it delivered more highs or better dispersion, but, because I thought the upper midrange sounded smoother and less peaky
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm runninga paper 3.5 inch tweet and love it..
But am considering adding a Be with a Nd magnet.
I like over lap in my fq range.
The cap is a 2.2 and guess runs from 9khz on up.
So there is a over lap of Davidlouis 9k on up with the Kasun.
Sounds fantastic.
Same with the W18's, has a 10uf cap and guessing runs up to 1600hz.
So over laps Davidlouis
DLVX8 taps into 40ishhz
W18 40ish hz.
So over lap
40hz-1600hz
Sounds super.
Ck out the new YT vid above on bass response.
Ain't too shabby for a WBer. Which has a stigma of lacking good bass.
|
You do realize most of us have had, or have heard full range drivers, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then why so seldom mention around here??
btw I do not like the looks of that Wide band construction.
Also note, why high SPL???
I never got high spl as something necessary for music.
I listen low/mid vol, maybe 65 spl. Very near field listening, 8 feet.
Most of the xover low sens groupies have not heard AER and Voxativ.
If you did, there would be more talk about both.
The most popular WBer is the Tang band, as readily avaliable at Parts Express.
TB 1808
TB1772
and what I think is their best the 2145
I don't think, Mark Audio holds up against the Tang band and DavidLouis
So far I'm the only one here who actually heard the TB2145 and even moreso, None of you've heard, nor are aware it even EXISTS
The davidLouis VX8.
My posts are EDU 101 in WBers performance results vs your convention xover types.
I think its clear the shootout went very well for the WBers.
Lousey for the xover type.
Thors at $2K + my upgardes $1200+, vs a $550 WBer. |
You have the attention span of a gnat. Bache is the one that told you about them
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do suffer froma bit of alzheimers disease,,,but yeah I am glad we have a Tang band2145 on board here. Maybe he could chime in on his opinion of that speakers solid bass.
Yes larry and I are in agreement. Adding/padding bass with your fav woofer is a stunning success.
Just don't go too high on the midwoofer is the only requirement,,, all Midwoofers suffer over say 1600hz range,, = breakup.
Tweets also, 6khz is OK, most good tweets can easily go down to 6k,,I'm crossing at 9kish hz with my paper tweeter. Sounds fantastic with more ambience on the highs..
As larry mention, you have the purists, some did not care for added tweet, each his own.
For large orch, = the more the better.
Of course your Vandersteen, Wilson's , many other xover types will blow away the 8 WBer in terms of depth , and power of the Timipi drums,
No contest.
|
The Tyler speakers that I mentioned that I owned (Super Tower) have the Millenium tweeter in them, so yes, I am well aware of them and what they sound like
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did the Tyler ST's have the Seas Excel W18's??
If yes, then you do know exactly some of the issues in both the Seas Millennium and Excel W18E001's
You and I are actually in full agreement.
I did say **worlds finest** based on comparison with B&W, many other very popular xover types, Thors come out a clean, clean, undeniable winner ..
So recant in due order here.
In its calss, one of, but not THE, best sounding 2 way speakers under $2G's.
Now you and I both have issues with Seas Excel
What does this say.
Boiled down...all xover type speakers suffer from some liabilites and handicaps,
Issues are there.
Things I can not deal with, nor will accept and never again will consider as a Front Center speaker.
As assists, Yes , here they have a essential place ina WBer speaker SYSTEM.
For my orchestra, I need **more the better***
If I had a Buckingham Palace size listening room.
I'd have dual DavidLouis VX8
's. The Seas W26 aluminum/magnesium woofer and a good tweeter.
Considering I have so much cash invested in the W18's, I'm will make good use and bring them in as assist on the 8 WBer.. all due to their magneficient magnesium cone which makes bass/upper bass/low mids, nice soft, recessed (87db), no resonances and blends perfectly with the WB's bass.
Sure there are plenty of WBers comming out of china that are garbage.
Just like you have garbage xover types.
Xover types, the popular brands, all have some issues, No one is denying that here.
And we can all agree a single 8 incher WB, also may not meet the needs of heavy hard hitting audioophiles that demand massive SPL, powerful SLAM bass, stunning glorious highs.
Maybe a AER/Voxativ/Feastrex can achieve this high level of fidelity/powerful soundstage in the 3 fq ranges,,,
I'll never know.
Bottom line
WBers voice a seamless midrange which hardly no xover types can compete.
Troels Gravesen speaks of this crisis in the xover points all the time on his site.
Issues which I do not hear in a high tecg WBer8.
Is there any guarantee the Wilson's big Stonehedge size speakers voice midrange in such a fashion to challenge the WBers mids?
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bache381 posts09-25-2021 8:18amTake a look my site all my speakers based on Tang Band 2145 with bass
support and supertweeter also. i find this is the best, long time ago. The male voices , piano sound natural and fool body,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I will visit your site 100% agreement with your assessment of the Tang Band 2145, which I think has a consense as the best of their 3 8 inch WBers. Might be their latest model. Voices , life like presence. Mids clean, neutral, no muddyness, no coloration, highs with that aluminum phase pluf extended with sparkles. *Full body** Yes bass goes low enough (40hz roll off is my guess) rich detailed mis, and highs to say 12k+ hz's. = Nice detailed sound stage. You know I could be happy with a single WBer , no assist. But for padded lows, added *ambience* on the highs, Why not. As I say, the bass from the added woofer must be as clean and neutral as the TB2145, otherwise there will not be the meshing of both bass fq's. What is the fq cut off on your woofers? What fq does the super tweeter kick in? |
Take a look my site all my speakers based on Tang Band 2145
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I just did. I really like your latest 002AB model.
I'm sure your Fostex tweet matches the Dali super tweets.
In bass I;'m sure your bass drivers match/surpass Wilsons' dual woofers.
But again, for my needs in classical music, its all about midrange.
Here is where you gain the advantage with the Tang Bnad 2145,,,on your site you mention **Tang band paper driver***, no where did I see 2145..
You might want to update that bit of info..
This way potential buyers know the driver is not the 1808 and 1772.
Its my hunch the 2145 is the superior speaker. vs its 2 siblings, 1772/1808.
Great work on your true full ---complete total--- fq design
Sens is super high, fit for any amplifier.
I'm running the Tang Band 2145 with a Jadis Defy and a EL 34, both pack power and work with good results (vol gain no more than 9 oclock, = mid SPL (80ish)in my small room) with the high sens WBer.
Ideally maybe a SET is superior, but any sized PP will also work.
I listen at 8:30 on the Jadis DPL line stage vol....near field, . seated 8 feet from speaker.
After owning the Seas Thors some 15 yrs,, its such a good feeling have a WBer on the speaker lines.......
Niceee
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it corrodes easily, uncoated ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I always wondered,,how a cone is made of magnesium...??? I think of magnesium as some sort of mineral, like stone or something. The cone has this spongy type feel to it,, PERFECT for absorbing unwanted nasty upper mid fq’s and as well low mid fq.s But gives up some deeper/tighter DRUMs punch that the ScanSpeak Revelator exhibits. Small trade off. OK just looked more closely at ~~~~~~~~~~~Wilson’s Sabrina... has a 5 inch paper midrange.. Both my tech and I had our share of the old midrange drivers back in the day. Neither of us cared for any of the dedicated midrange voice. I am sure Wilson’s mid driver is superior to the old models,, but is no match for the Tang Bands’ xover-less mids. https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-audio-specialties-sabrinax-loudspeaker-specifications |
Quad 57’s.
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The Legendary Quad 57’s,
My tech mention this speaker presents the finest midrange he’s ever heard.
Which backs up my hunch these 2 WBers midrange has authority and eloquence.
Equal to any panel/stat’s supreme mid voicing.
~~~Futhermore,, while looking for Bache's links, I notice you left a customer comment and states all the top class speakers you've auditioed in the past.
Thats quite a top notch quality of speakers you mention there.
Again , my hunch the midrange in this TB2145 excels over the mids in the xover low sens types due to inherent weaknesses, which a xover can not mend nor fix.
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OK Found Bache Audio site His latest Bache Audio 002AB, is really full complete total range speaker. Thats one heck of a tweeter. Only says (Paper Tang Band** not sure which model. And i am quite sure the reviewer got it right, beats the Dali and Wilson in the critical midrange....where is counts... High tech WBers always come out the winners in seamless lifelike soundstage in mids, vs the xover low sens types. You can argue that point all you wish, I ain't budging 1 inch on this doctrine. My dogma is based on experience. https://bacheaudio.com/portfolios/bache-audio-002ab/ |
so i type in
Wilson Speakers/65M hits
Dali Speakers/30M hits
Bache Audio Speakers /588k hits.
Proof consumerISM/Commercial/ISM/Popular/ISM
might be a deceptive snakeoil that takes one off a path to find a better speaker.
Argue please.
I never ever follow the crowd.
From my studies in Jung, collective man often leads to the lesser choice.
Please argue
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am I getting on anyones nerves yet??
;-)) |
I might have posted this link somewhere in this topic, or elsewhere. Here it is a 2nd time. Note This tech geek has heard quaite a few of the BIG names, The Popular Vote Speakers. Great you like them. WEll in this discussion the OP points out there are in fact, does acutally exist a alternative to the xover.low sens types. (Note how i always include the db spec when discussing the speakers in your room, LOW SENSitivity, as this is their major weakness) Anyway, Read through the thread,,which i need to make time for as well. Consider it a EDU 101/wide band assist concept. I will not be posting much any more, and I know well this topic will get pushed under the bus when I'm gone. Down to Audiogon's dungeon. But at least its loged in and others may run across it in their researches. Had I not brought up this topic, ,,well there is 2 or 3 other Wide Band topics here,,but all have been buired undera mounatin of xover COMMERCIAL/CONSUMER speakers,. Sound for the average audiophile. Vandersteens, Thiels, Wilson,s KEFs. Focals. Harbeths. etc ETC https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/crossover-points-and-augmented-wideband-driver-speakers.25401... |
Everyone who doubts that a wide-band driver can sound good even as a single driver system should make the effort to hear some of the systems made by Charney Audio, Voxativ and Cube Audio; they might change your mind.
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I have no doubt a singler HIGH TECH MODERN WBers could very well be acceptable, and enjoyable, in my classical muisc.
For those seeking the huge soundstage LOUDspaekers of the 70's, 80s and through even today's times,, may not likea single,, or lets say a single WBer at 100db spl,, may not be what they are looking for.
So they go Wilson, Dali, Vov Schwiezgert (sp error) at $100k with Accuton drivers.
There are at least 100 top selling speakers on the market. Buyers bonaza, Flea markat Galore.
We WBer cultists, once we hear a good WBer , we never can do back to xover low sensitivity types.
WE lived with them for decades, Now in our elder age, we are more bold, daring, inquisitive and a bit smarter I should say,
WBers is what we 've always been looking for, but never knew it.
The multi driver WBer system seems a more full rich experience vs a single speaker.
But I don't know , maybe Cube with their strange 2 and 3 whizzer cones have something special also AER's big priced. speakers.
I put together a Frankenstein and have no interest looking futher.
I plan to add a DavidLouis Be witha huge Nd magnet.
My classical music does not require anymore than what I have.
But for others who prefer a lab to put togethera multi driver WBer system, sure I think they are not only making the wisest choice, but really the only choice.
Seas and Accuton's high tech midranges will not compete with a WBers midrange.'
Nice drivers, but sorry
~~No Cigar
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You're the official POPE of WBer Wide Band..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
hahaha good one
and its true, I am the offical LOUD speaker for WBers...
But guess what, I'm done preaching WBers,
ran out of things to say...
Now I am over on the amp page, preaching SET's as not only the best design, but the only design to consider if you are after true high fidelity.
The Ideologue and Iconoclast
Guess its the german blood in me that makes me say these things with such conviction.
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How did you arrive at the Avantgarde Duo as the only better system? I hope it wasn't via listening to a youtube video.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
YT allows me to get a glimpse of how a speaker will sound in my room.
I thought over the AG Duo 3.0 speakers,
Yeah its very accurate,
But the soundstage is wayyyy more that i want/need, /could live with.
Horns are very accurate, no doubt, But at 100+++ db sens, Not my cup of tea,
The sound is massive and overwhelming
This is what I came away with listening to the Avantgarde.
Lets say for 1) small listening room
2) near field
3) low /moderate SPL
I see WBers are not only the ideal musical experience, but really the best, wisest and only choice to fulfill the 3 requirements listed above.
Considering the Fostex 208EZ Sigma in a shootout with the DavidLouis.
Should be fun.
Just listening to Burt Bacharach/Elvis Costello /painted From Memory, Sept, 1998.
Davidlouis VX8
Really nice, laid back, could not ask anything more from a speaker.
Horns compete with the big Sonus Faber, Wilson, Von Schweikert V55, Dali speakers
Compression Horns and WBers have little in common.
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Horns are spectacularly good at low volume
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peahaps true
But why pay for big horns , use at low vol???
When a WBers will do the job as good/better with less cash
Just cked out a few Fostex and Mark Audio YT vids, and looked over both drivers construct.
~~The Mark Audio did not impress me on female volcals, bass was super tight, deep.
~~Fostex, incredible highs, bass excellent,
Not sure if the mids surpass the DavidLouis.
I must have a whizzer so that cancels out the newest from Fostex, 208 E Sigma
I think the DLVX8 is going to prove over the years as best WBer under $1G.
Other than my DLVX8 uploads, there are no others.
Plenty on Mark Audio/Fostex.
Glad I could bring attention to this little known speaker.
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and yet you keep going
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Not done yet,, Here in this vid i explain why i added the DL4, Just in time as it was about to get shiped to relatives, asa gift. I will now delete the ebay ad for the 6 and give them the Dl6 and keep thsi fantastic 4. Soundstage has even more presence , vocals are now rich and detailed. The Tang band W32141 looks nice, sounds great... , but I have the DL 4 and going to hold there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgWR6IbqOOg |
