Synergistic Research Cable Risers?
If an incredibly thin piece of plastic wrap can throw off the performance of a capacitorThat’s a wank too, as it’s not ac music signal they're showing the effect on, but minuscule mF capacitance the test gear leads (which they conveniently don’t show) are in different positions, and could even be cross over for some shots, this is more the reason. Take any capacitance meter and it will show those minuscule mF or uF differences when measuring the same cap twice with the leads moved around. |
One must take into account that there is a slight and constant bend in the cable where it is hung onto the cable risers. Have four or five of these "static" bends per speaker cable and you have created series of resistances which when compounded does not allow the signal to pass completely unimpeded. The obvious solution is balloons, string and helium. Inflate the balloons with helium, and tie one end of the string to the balloon and the other around the cable. The secret sauce here is that as the inflated balloons lose their buoyancy, at different loss rates, it creates constantly changing cable angles where attached to the string, and this multiplicity of angulation of the four or five balloons results in a smoother flowing of the audio signal. Flatlanders, nervous nellies, and Debbie downers who have not tried this in your own house, with your own gear, you have no basis for any negative commentary. |
The "electricity companies" bury cables whenever possible (any new development). Audio cables might interact with some types of carpet maybe, but if cables are well made...star quad, helix, well shielded ICs, they'l work fine and little stands won't do anything...vibration raises it's pesky head when music is played, and being unnecessarily obsessed with vibration and silly things like micro arcing is an utter waste of time...with a 30 day Guarantee! |
The cable risers definitely work. If you’re looking for evidence, look to the experts - the electricity companies use big ones all the time. You can see them outside on some places where the cables are carried well above ground height. Put them at ground height and you’d get all sorts of EMF seepage. |
High end cable elevators, https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252733261261 |
In 1997 at CES Pierre and I suspended all cabling and power cords from eye 👁 hooks in the ceiling using thread with a rubber band on one end. Gives it a nice 2Hz bounce. It looked a little weird, though. Shannon Dickson in Stereophile described the Mapleshade Gallo room as Plan 9 from Outer Space. The debuting Gallo double sphere speakers probably didn’t help. |
These are cool, “Right before the javelin throw, total concentration is required. Run through everything one more time and then throw the javelin as far as you can. It's that simple.” Hey, just like in audio! 🤗 https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F202654860184 |
My intent on starting this forum topic was to get informed opinions from people who had tried this product. I use several Synergistic products in my system because they work, period. I use Hft''s x 3 different kinds, phono pht and finally the orange fuses having switched from the blue fuses. About 2 1/2 years ago I got Synergistic black fuses in everything which was a big upgrade from isoclean fuses. Then the blue fuses came out and I read Frank's review and all the other positive comments. At the time I didn't want to spend any money on new blue fuses having just bought 5 black fuses 4 1/2 months previous but decided to buy just one blue fuse for my amp to see what all the hopp la was about. Well end of story. There was no turning back upon hearing that just 1 blue fuse in my amp which made a big difference in the sound of the music. So I saw these Synergistic cable risers and said what if? At least I am keeping an open mind on it but will not buy any until I hear some positive reviews. My view on this is at that price they better work. It will be interesting to eventually hear from actual users or a magazine review. Base less conjecture is not informative. |
| Post removed |
Here are the specs on them from the manufacturer, clearly stated so there’s no come back liability. (nothing about any improvements to the sound) "Treated aluminum cable supports incorporating custom designed HFTs and other Synergistic Research UEF technology. You’ll need two sets thats $800!!!! Just use tennis balls cut in half they sound better. Cheers George |
I listened to the risers at Rocky Mountain last year. Did it make a difference? Yes. With many tweaks it's often about the visceral feeling of the music, ie is it less fatiguing, do your shoulders drop when you listen, smooth out subtle edges/sharpness etc. vs. changing more obvious attributes such as sound stage, imaging, etc. These risers definitely changed the visceral feeling of the music. I don't know if they are better or worse than using wood or ceramic risers because SR didn't do A/B with other risers, just with and without. Like everything your mileage will vary so if there price is right and you like the look of them , may be worth a 30 day try. Since these do have the proprietary transducers, they will definitely sounds different than comparable risers without them. Also the difference wasnt night and day and you will want to add these to an already highly revealing/resolving system. |
But on Monday, I will call Mike at HRS, because he is a Real engineers engineer and see what he thinks about damping vibration in that 1m of cable. I can see with my accelerometer ( yes I have one, and an SPL meter and an RTA... did you throw out the rusty tape measure... yet ? ) that the Vandersteen cabinet and the HRS isolated Vandersteen amp ain’t moving much ( when you get real tools we can compare the differential).... who knows, maybe a constrained layer cable wrap will emerge... |
Been trying the risers for about a week, got them on the free orange fuse promo. In my system they did not work well, seemed to take away dynamics and reduced the organic nature of the sound. Then moved them under power cables and much better. Will attempt to try under speaker cables again and completely out of play before deciding on sending them back. They definitely impact the sound, certainly worth a try. For the naysayers here, we get it, you don’t need to keep repeating your skepticism ad infinitum, very tiresome..... |
I use these from Ikea:https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vaesnas-tealight-holder-clear-glass-60259096/ Can't go wrong for the price. All the best, Nonoise |
I was shocked at the difference obtained when I raised my speaker wire off the floor. I completely expected NOT to hear any difference and that's what caught me most off-guard. With this said, I don't think you need to use an expensive SR product to do this. I ended up cutting into sections the thin, inner wooden cradles in a couple of empty Bordeaux wine cases to prop my cables up - essentially free after the wine is consumed. I'm not a SR hater at all and in fact use their fuses and HFTs in my setup/room with much success. |
I’ve always thought that it has something to do with the dielectric effect. Earlier today, I came across this tidbit: https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/02/the-effect-of-plastic-wound-capacitor.html#more Clicking on the photos enlarges them for easier viewing. It’s minor, but measurable (which many here demand to see), so if it alters the value of a capacitor (and therefore, the sound, albeit slightly), why doesn’t it pertain to cables as well? All the best, Nonoise |
Taken from Elliott’s sound products page: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." From ’The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy’, Douglas Adams The above could just as easily be re-phrased - for example ... "I refuse to prove that my cables/risers/fuses will make your system sound better", says the snake oil vendor, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, you will hear nothing." |
Bingo!Yeah that’s you, can’t see the forest for the trees. This may as well be a fuser thread as it’s the same 1/2 dozen voodooist’s every time. And attention those who purchase them, don’t forget the cable risers have to be around the right way, logo towards the speakers, and at least 100hrs break in time is needed before you can hear the difference. |
Bingo! Eliminating as many micro-vibrations and as much micro-arcing as possible is the key to better sound. No matter how much a person has spent on equipment unless vibration is addressed, they will never realize the potential of their audio system. Once these things are addressed, a magic music machine appears. Even from less expensive systems. Frank |
tomic601:
what might be more helpful is a discussion of how and why it might work and some possible reasons. Good point which is why it has been discussed several times including several times by me. One good reason you might want to follow the lead of a growing segment of the community and start following my posts. Incredibly thorough and informative you would know all about this by now. None of this is rocket science, its all perfectly self-evident to any experienced informed and aware audiophile, the plausible reasons it could work break down as follows: 1) It could be dielectric effect. All insulators are imperfect. They all absorb some small amount of the passing signal and then radiate this energy back into the wire with a small delay resulting in a smearing of micro transients. This isn't new this is established science and it isn't new I've said it before but I get better and better, more succinct and informative, each time. Read past posts and see. 2) It could be vibration control. Alternating electric current and fields always result in vibrations, which is why vibration control like cones and shelves improves even components with no moving parts like amplifiers. Don't take my word for it. Go feel your cables while playing music. You'll be surprised how much they vibrate, especially with bass. So it could be the sound is improved by allowing the cable to vibrate freely in air rather than being damped by the floor. 3) It could be electric charges. Static electricity is a problem particularly with speaker cables. Don't take my word for it, use anti-static spray and see for yourself. That's three solid reasons. All of which are bolstered by the specific design approach SR uses here. Because notice they use HFT, which are used to great effect on speakers, walls, and components. I think IF you are using a highly ( a relative term ) capacitive cable with poor dialectric, risers might be a waste. Of course the Uber or BDP suggestions are low cost. IF your room floor is carpet then insulating risers may help. I highlight this part because it illustrates a common problem- assuming to know enough to be able to eliminate possibilities. Because what you mean to say by "IF" is this is the only way. Can't be anything else. Let me show why this is wrong. I tested different materials a long time ago. Everything helped but Cable Elevators were by far the best. One thing I tested was BDR Those Things, squares of carbon fiber. Those Things are terrific vibration control and carbon fiber is somewhat conductive. The fact that a lousy vibration control material like ceramic worked better seemed to indicate the mechanism is electrical. Not sure but seemed likely. Well then recently in trying TC different places I put some on the insulators. Seems counterintuitive, putting a conductor over an insulator. But this was a tremendous improvement. Now scroll up and read oregonpapa, who had the same experience, only with Mats, which are very similar. If there's one thing that ought to be abundantly clear its that we are pretty good with getting bulk crude power from A to B, but when it comes to the extreme subtleties of the micro-level signals that make all the difference between high end products we know next to nothing. |
what might be more helpful is a discussion of how and why it might work and some possible reasons.Get someone to quietly tap/shake your speaker wires while you listen blind and see if you hear a difference. Why even give these snake oiler's a chance to sell one lot to the gullible here, just another money grab like the AC mains fuses and HFT things are. |
what might be more helpful is a discussion of how and why it might work and some possible reasons. I think IF you are using a highly ( a relative term ) capacitive cable with poor dialectric, risers might be a waste. Of course the Uber or BDP suggestions are low cost. IF your room floor is carpet then insulating risers may help. Not so much on hardwood ( the real thing ) or natural stone / slate. i have a bunch of Myrtlewood blocks cut in the “ word salad “ golden ratio...those are cheap and easy to make on my Delta Unisaw but with a German fence....... no daughters for rent |
Back to cable risers ... This is what I use: http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/equipment/shunyata_dark_field.htm Devout tweaker that I am, I’ve even tweaked the cable risers. I’ve taken PPT Alpha-Cards and bent them into a shape to fit into the slots, then placed the speaker cables into the slots on top of the Alpha-Cards. Then, each riser has an original PPT Omega Mat sitting on top of it with the cables underneath. The mats sit length-wise in order to affect as much of the cable as possible. I got a nice improvement in SQ from that little exercise. Frank |
SR offers a full refund within 30 days, so I would be hesitant to call them snake oil salesmen. If someone offered me, say, a car that gets 500 mpg and said I could have a full refund no-questions-asked if I don't like it, I just may buy it. To satisfy my curiosity -- even though my degree in engineering tells me it's practically impossible. |
How about these? http://www.10audio.com/cable-lifters.htm While you're at the hobby store, you can pick up something red and shiny to put on it after you paint it all black. All the best, Nonoise |
Whenever I denigrate snake oil manufacturers and or their shills. If it they thought it didn’t apply to themselves, then there’d be no reason to get testy and retaliate personally. So what does that tell you about the ones that do????????? (and it's always the same 1/2 dozen that do) Hey Georgie ... have you complained to the Mods yet today?Don’t have to, I’m sure their watching this closely, sure they have "SR" flagged. |
The lexicon of the Debbie Downer's is growing at an exponential rate thanks to Wolfie and good old "Cheers George"... and all of this in only two posts: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Voodoo BS No Shame Toxic Hyperbole laden sheep Athletic supporter Hell hole Violence --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simply amazing, isn't it? Hey Georgie ... have you complained to the Mods yet today? Better hurry because someone, somewhere, on this site is having a good time. Frank |
Credibility is damaged among the hyperbole laden sheep-like faithful when they simply tumble after every silly tweak they can revel in and proudly claim the role of athletic supporter...ridiculous again (is that really only twice?). Does anybody actually think little stands are stopping air born vibration from touching the speaker cables before my previously described hell hole of inner speaker cable violence takes over? Oh the humanity... |
You can get a package of 20 Grip Rite brand "Plastic High Chairs" (supports to elevate the rebar in concrete foundations) at Home Depot, product no. IHCP21420R (sku 7 64666 53838 2), $3.60 for the bag of 20. Put a "suspension bridge" across the gap (as Shunyata does on their cable riser) if you wish. |
