Here is a music rec for you guys The Stan Getz Quartet "Live at Montreaux 1972" the quartet is Stan and Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke, and Tony Williams. Can't imagine a better band than that and though it's more of a jazz fusion style than I normally like it's really fantastic. The tune La Fiesta in particular is great, check this album out it's a tour de force for sure!
Synergistic Red Fuse ...
I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
4,839 responses Add your response
Thanks for all of the well wishes guys. Its very helpful. I have to be at the hospital at 5:30 tomorrow morning with the surgery scheduled to begin at 7:30 am. On a completely different note: My friend Robert came over two nights ago for a listening session and brought a CD I thought some of you would enjoy. Its a modern take on the old cartoon film music of the 1920’s and 1930’s. Its a tribute to Raymond Scott, the leader of a quintet back in the day that used to do the sound tracks for these films. The modern group playing on the disc is the Beau Hunks sextet. Here is some really nostalgic jazz for us oldsters ... and hopefully a new find for the younger guys. Its really fun music and a good introduction to early American jazz. Sound quality is really good on this well recorded stereo disc. It’ll have your toes tapping. Highly recommended. Here’s a link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-BEAU-HUNKS-SEXTETTE-CELEBRATION-ON-THE-PLANET-MARS-CD-/332183885875?hash... Hang in there ... Frank |
Hi everyone, My 1st post here on Audiogon after several years of silent reading... I just want to tell you my own experience regarding the SR Black fuse. I bought a 1A 20mm slow blow SR Black fuse yesterday for my DAC (NAD M51). I read and found that the SR Black fuses are directional. I also read that in order to figure out which direction is ideal/correct, you have no other way than listening. One direction will give you much better sound than the other. So as soon as I received my SR Black fuse, I did a critical listening comparison. I installed and flipped the fuse. Then I'm a bit confused as I actually heard noticeable improvement over the stock fuse but I heard NO differences between both directions. I tried to listen closely but there was nothing that I can notice firmly. I think there may be a couple of reasons for this: - My system does not have resolution enough to 'reveal' the differences between the directions of the SR fuse (My system: Laptop (source) -> Schiit Wyrd (USB linear power supply) -> Audiobyte Hydra Z (USB converter) -> NAD M51 (DAC) -> Arcam Alpha 10/10P biamp -> Monitor Audio Silver 2 (speaker)) - My listening skill is not good enough. - The SR Fuse actually has no direction. It drove me a bit crazy thinking about that. So I decided to ask Synergistic Research. I left a message to SR and received a useful answer from Andy Wiederspahn from SR, and I quote: "Yes, it is directional. The electricity should flow the way you read the label. From S to R. Thanks, Andy" After I received this mail, I immediately tried to figure out the way the electricity flow in my NAD M51 circuit. In order to figure out the direction of the electricity within the NAD M51, I removed the fuse holder (below the AC inlet), then I plugged the power cable in and used a phase tester to check inside the "hollow hole" where the fuse holder was before. One terminal/side/phase made the light of the phase tester light up and this is a hot one (i.e: the 'beginning' of the electricity) while the other phase didn't. By doing that, I could know the direction of the electricity of the circuit in my NAD M51. Finally I just installed the fuse with direction along with the flow of electricity and decided to leave it then. I post this just to share with you guys about some information if you're in the same boat as me - i.e. own SR black fuses but can't hear the difference with the directions of the fuse. Happy listening, Khiem |
Finally I just installed the fuse with direction along with the flow of electricity and decided to leave it then.Hate to tell you, but AC electricity doesn’t flow, it alternates back and forward 50 or 60 time a second (50hz 60hz) depending which country your in. So the directionality of an ac mains fuses is all "expectation bias". You'd have better cred if you belived in the tooth fairy. This is all potential fusers need to know: "All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
georgehifi Finally I just installed the fuse with direction along with the flow of electricity and decided to leave it then. "Hate to tell you, but AC electricity doesn’t flow, it alternates back and forward 50 or 60 time a second (50hz 60hz) depending which country your in. So the directionality of an ac mains fuses is all "expectation bias". You’d have better cred if you belived in the tooth fairy." It’s not really "electricity" that is alternating, it’s the current that’s alternating. The voltage is not alternating. Otherwise they’d call it AV. Furthermore as we’ve discussed many many times all fuses, even bog standard fuses, exhibit voltage drops that are slightly different depending on direction - even in AC circuits! [Refer to HiFi tuning data sheets.] So fuses ARE directional with respect to conductivity, even in AC circuits. Hel-loo! Also recall we aren’t worried about the direction back toward the wall anyway, only the direction toward the speakers. So the alternating current argument is dead in the water. And when someone says, "in the direction of the flow of electricity" that means in the direction TOWARD the speakers and AWAY from the wall. The electricity does eventually get to the speakers, doesn’t it? |
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First, kudos to Aeoluskratos for a sincere and nicely done first post. Second, I don’t wish to rehash the subject of fuse directionality, which has been debated ad nauseam in this thread. But I want to correct a misstatement of fact: Geoffkait 5-10-2017Both the voltage and the current alternate in AC. That follows from the fact that per Ohm’s Law, which applies to resistive loads, voltage and current are directly proportional to each other. (And for a capacitive load current is proportional to the rate of change of voltage, and vice versa for an inductive load, and all of those quantities also alternate in the case of AC). That can be easily seen on an oscilloscope, where the vertical axis of the graph that is displayed corresponds to voltage and the horizontal axis corresponds to time. AC will look like a close approximation of a sine wave, swinging both positively and negatively, above and below zero volts. Regards, -- Al |
Then comes the question of what exactly is the origin point, the true meaning... of phase lead and lag? Not the textbook engineering (incomplete false dead end) answer, but how does it arise - as a complex question in the quantum sciences? That is more the essential question. As the engineering answers, neither explain or solve any of these issues that the ear hears. Otherwise this circular merry go round would have died off in the very first two person discussion. The suggestion is that neither party has a true grip on the issues. One is willing to admit there is a problem (listeners with ears), and willing to admit they don't know. The other is not willing to admit that their engineering bible is flawed and full of holes in it's logic edicts. Those who 'get it' from both sides of the scenario, will never be involved in such discussions, as the answers allow for the making of product or solutions in the scenario, which are also potentials for financial gain. Some who may not know how it all works, might find themselves manipulating the effects in order to make money off the people who admit they hear something going on. It is a market that is seemingly at odds with itself from all directions. |
+1 @almarg @aeoluskratos As some have stated, on badly designed equipment with under-rated fuses the fuse can be stressed on power up and resistance may rise leading to eventual failure. This used to happen in the past with Zinc based fuses. This should not happen with modern copper or silver based fuses in proper modern well designsed equipment. Should you experience an improvement it suggests that the original fuse was faulty. That you hear no directionality is correct - there isn’t any. |
Al, regardless of your point about voltage being alternating, which may be true who knows, it doesn’t change the fact - as you well know - that resistance and therefore conductivity is measured as being different by 5% depending on which direction the fuse is inserted. Even in AC circuits. Your argument about voltage was the response to a trap I set especially for you. Nice try! The same argument I just made for only worrying about the current flowing toward the speakers and ignoring the current flowing toward the wall can be made for voltage. Hel-loo! Ohms Law! Gimme a break! 😛 geoff |
geoffkait: Who cares if it’s true or not? It's a red herring! Duh! Cleeds: If you live in the real world, Truth Matters. Cleeds old buddy, I’m afraid you either haven’t been following very closely this whole fuse directionality discussion or you’re pretending to be dense. If the later is true you’re doing an excellent job. Fuses - all fuses - have been measured to have lower resistance in one direction than the other. And they measure like that even in AC circuits. That means, my good fellow, it doesn’t matter whether current alternates OR whether voltage alternates. The fuses are still directional. Have a nice day |
Fuses - all fuses - have been measured to have lower resistance in one direction than the other.Please post links to proven scientific data on this, not just hearsay. Maybe old fuses that have had many switch-on cycles put through them, sag and get carbon build up, even then it’s doubtful. (see 5 different length of times same fuse, ageing over time first link) For anyone worried that your old fuses have been subjected to too many switch on/off surges. "All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
GeorgeHiFi, were you sleeping through class again? The fuse information has been discussed many times. The HiFi Tuning web site contains the independently measured voltage drop data for all types of fuses, both directions, including HiFi Tuning, stock fuses, other aftermarket fuses, cryo’d versions of those fuses, glass fuses, ceramic fuses, fuses in DC circuits, fuses in AC circuits. To summarize the results of the fuse data: all fuses measure differently depending on direction of the fuse in the circuit because the fuses are physically and electrically, uh, directional. And if I can be so bold, that is why they sound different depending on direction. Wake up and smell the coffee. |
They don't actually sound different, they don't actually sound at all. Fuses are utterly insignificant relative to the primary tone shaping components of any hifi gear, but seemingly can shape the tone in one's imagination if the listener really believes they do and spent enough on them. They're fuses…I say let them be as it's sad enough they're trapped in a little holder away from the rest of the more important bits, simply called upon from time to time to kill themselves by melting in an emergency. *sniff*…Hat's off to those little guys... |
Just more fuse updates... The Black fuse in my Mccormack amp is a winner. Definitely sounds better one way than the other. Was playing Moby Dick for my dad the other day on my Aerial 5t speakers, and I think his exact words were "did you get a subwoofer?" Bass palpability, and precise imaging are the hallmarks with the Black fuse in place. In the preamp, it’s not so clear. With the Black fuse, precision goes up, but the sound becomes a little dry. With the stock glass fuse, precision is down, but the bounce and liquidity of the music comes through more. Gonna stick with the glass fuse for now there. Again, thanks for all the posts guys. They’ve been both informative and helpful. Regards, Jason |
The HiFi Tuning fuse data sheets have been discussed like forever. Wake up and smell the coffee. Like I politely asked. I asked you to "post links" which you refuse the do, from factual scientific non audio related data that says AC fuses are directional. Any data supplied by the Audio company/s selling these sometimes "re-bagged" audio fuse can be dismissed as hearsay/voodoo. Cheers George |
George, what you actually posted was, "Please post links to proven scientific data on this, not just hearsay." You initially said nothing about the data being non-audio related which doesn’t make any sense anyway, since who is going to care about fuse directionality except for audiophiles? Duh! You keep changing your story, which is mostly boloney anyway. By the way I like your expression "proven scientific data" - does that mean it’s been blessed by MIT? NASA? The Pope? |
Georgie old boy, the link was provided to you and you either didn’t see it or you’re pretending not to see it. It’s no skin off my nose but in any case obviously you don’t know the distinction between evidence and proof. Data of any type, including fuse data can only be considered evidence, not proof. Maybe you should consider something like a refresher course in science and logic, who knows. Have a nice day, or night, whatever |
These DCR results show nothing! and can never be heard even by you with your bat ears, they have differences in hundredth’s!!! of milliohms!!!!!!!! (.00001 of an ohm) which mean nothing, this can be the change by the hand warming the probes or the direction of the wind or humidity or the rotation of the earth, in other words it’s just VOODOOO sales speak!!!!! Show me and the members here, a change in AC resistance 1ohm or even a tenth of an ohm, then your statements about fuse direction "may" carry some cred, but even then it’s flawed as AC changes 60 x a second as for now it’s still just marketing voodoo speak. Cheers George |
On **numerous** occasions earlier in this thread and in several other fuse-related threads I as well as several respected designers of highly regarded audio electronics have explained why the measurements reported in the HiFi Tuning paper are not supportive of claims that fuses are inherently directional. One of many such statements was this one by Roger Modjeski of Music Reference and RAM Tube Works, which I quoted in this thread on 10-28-2016: Has anyone considered what portion of the total resistance the fuse contributes to the whole of the circuit in which it is inserted?In another post in this thread, dated 10-7-2016, I said as follows: Regarding the measurements described in the HFT paper ... which purport to support the notion of fuse directionality:All of which is NOT to say that the direction-related sonic differences which many have reported are the result of extraneous variables such as differences in equipment warmup state, or misperception, expectation bias, etc. I don’t doubt that many of the reports are accurate. But another distinguished designer, Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere, has explained why those differences would have occurred, and has indicated that he has verified his claims with experimental measurements. In a post in this thread dated 10-28-2016 I quoted the following comment he had made in a different fuse-related thread: Yet despite all that, and despite similar comments about the HiFi Tuning measurements that have been provided in numerous other posts going all the way back to the "Fuses that Matter" thread that began in 2012, Geoff continues to assert that the HiFi Tuning measurements support the notion that fuses are inherently directional. Regards, -- Al |
IMO those numbers are so miniscule as to be:This is also laughable Thank you Al. But I’ll go with what Geoff hears as the effects of the rotational pull of the earth, or maybe himself, (rotating that is.) not to be confused with what most are thinking as you need a few to do that, then again??? Cheers George |
Obviously this is just a case of complete denial. We have testimony/evidence of fuses sounding different depending on direction from almost everyone who has actually listened. We have actual data - from a third party tester - that shows differences in conductivity for fuses - all types of fuses, including stock fuses - according to direction, even in AC circuits. Fuses are also measurably sensitive to cryogenic treatment, purity of metals employed, type of fuse body, vibration control, and other things. Not to mention wire directionality has been known for ICs and speaker cables for like forever. At least 25 years. Hel-loo! Al and George must believe directional Arrows on cables and interconnects, even ones that are unshielded, is part of some worldwide conspiracy the likes of which the world has never known. This belief in a worldwide conspiracy obviously extends to fuses. I know what you’re thinking - the Laws of physics and electricity cannot suffer fuse directionality. It cannot be! But if aftermarket fuses were NOT effective and were NOT directional certainly those aftermarket fuse companies like HiFi Tuning and Isoclean that have been around for at least 15 years would have gone under by now. Al and George, the evidence is piling up. Hel-loo! Al and George are the poster children for the Backfire Effect, where someone is determined, against all evidence, to cling to his beliefs. In fact, the more evidence that’s presented the stronger the belief becomes. It is the same thing as complete denial. One wonders what’s next from the terrible twosome - the accusation that those who believe in fuse directionality must also believe in UFOs? |
Oh, one more thing. Its worth pointing out lawyers like you know who are trained to ignore evidence, disparage contradictory or actual evidence, twist facts and put all of their energy into getting their client off the hook at all costs, even when they know the client is guilty. If the glove doesn't fit you must acquit. |
Strangely applied pseudo logic from the beleaguered geoffkait (remember, he's sold bags of pebbles to place on your cables) seems too have hit a new low when he compares skeptics to OJ lawyers. Not that OJ's lawyers aren't relevant, they're just not relevant to this topic. As somebody who has claimed to NOT use fuses himself (a refuser?), his credibility continues to plummet in the face of actual expertise, and his primary defense of audio fuser silliness seems to be the fact that companies have been exploiting audiophiles with tempting fantasy tweaks for years in spite of the inherent silliness of some of this stuff…like "special" fuses. Well done geoff…as useful as a bag of rocks (which in landscaping or aquariums may actually be useful) on your cables. |
Wolf I don't use bags of pebbles nor do I use fuses but I do use reactive brass coupling discs to change the speed and the direction of mechanical wave types that are a large part of what we don't like and do like about the sound of our cables and most anything else.. Any material that contacts another material depending on their geometric alignment..well both will elicit a speed and direction change. Tom |
geoffkait Al and George, the evidence is piling up. Al and George are the poster children for the Backfire Effect Slow down Geoff, or you'll blow your pooffoo valve, it just time to do a little weeding, to check an epidemic of Voodoo. Cheers George |
