SUT Advice - Which Ones Are The Best?

Live! MC-10 which uses Hashimoto HM-3 transformer will be hard to beat at $1,000. 

JCarr, thanks again for yet another great help to SUT users. The only SUT-maker that I have dealt with personally are Jensen transformers in California, and yes those guys really know what they’re doing and what they are talking about, and they offer extensive information on how to use their products. I am sure the same must be true of the other companies that you have named specifically.

@jcarr , I forgot to ask! What do you think of transimpedance or current mode phono stages? I love the Atlas and it's impedance is low enough that it can be used with one.

@jcarr , thank you Johnathan, exactly. I like Sowter transformers because I am not paying for a fancy box and I have been very happy with their customer service. I believe transformers should be internal in the phono stage. I have not personally seen a phono stage without enough internal real-estate for fitting a transformer. You can use the hardware already in the phono stage but I prefer to add another set of input jacks and a gold plated toggle switch so one can easily switch back and forth from MC to MM. When you internal them you avoid another set of interconnects saving even more money. 

@lewm , @mijostyn was undoubtedly trying to be helpful by linking to a page where a transformer winder (Sowter in this case) provides primary inductance data for one of their designs.

In addition to the Sowter Type 1990 webpage https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/1990.php , I recommend also studying Sowter's Type 1480 page https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/1480.php , as well as their Type 9570 page https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/9570.php .

Starting from the Type 1480 page, it is specified for cartridges with coil impedances of 1~15 ohm, and its primary inductance is a fairly low 180mH. The accompanying frequency response curve is applicable when the source (cartridge coil) impedance is 3 ohm; and the frequency range is stated as "Essentially flat from 10Hz to 120kHz".

Next the Type 9570 page. Intended for cartridges with coil impedances of 1~100 ohm, its primary inductance is a far higher 1.9H (1900mH). The accompanying frequency response curve is applicable when the source (cartridge coil) impedance is 8 ohm; while the frequency range is stated as "+/- 1.0 dB 5Hz to 100kHz", instead of "Essentially flat from 10Hz to 120kHz" for the Type 1480.

Lastly we can look at the Type 1990 page, which has two primary coils to be connected either in series for 1:10 gain and 2000mH inductance, or in parallel with 1:20 gain and 250mH inductance. This is targeted at cartridges with coil impedances of 1~40 ohm (series coil connection, 1:10 gain, 2000mH inductance) or 1~5 ohm (parallel coil connection, 1:20 gain, 250mH inductance).

The accompanying frequency response curve is applicable when the source (cartridge coil) impedance is 40 ohm; while the frequency range is stated as "- 3 dB @ 5Hz to 100kHz". Once again, we see a transformer structure that the manufacturer recommends be set up for considerably more inductance when the cartridge impedance is expected to be higher, and commensurately less inductance when the cartridge impedance is expected to be lower. And on the same page Sowter declares "bandwidth improves with lower cartridge resistances".

You should be able to obtain primary inductance data from any company that winds its own transformers; Sowter, Ypsilon, Lundahl, Jensen, Cinemag, Intact Audio, Hashimoto etc. And even when the manufacturer does not wind the transformer units itself, they should be able to obtain the primary inductance data from their transformer supplier, or measure the value directly by placing an inductance meter across the au naturale transformer unit.

Thank you rauliruegas.
i will bear that in mind should I ever upgrade my phono-stage in the future..

@keswick : One benefit is that the output voltage of the cartridge drops is a little lower than at 47k and could improve the signal to noise ratio. Yes, it's a minimum number about and we can or can't detect it and depending of the phono stage design 100k could help it..

R.

Hi raulinuegas 
Thanks  for your advice.
i am currently running a DV 20x2L via my SUT and the MM side of my phono-stage. Unfortunately my phono-stage only has one fixed setting for MC and another for MM cartridges, so I am unable to alter it. So until I ever get around to upgrading the phono-stage for one that is adjustable I will have to live with what I have. Having said that, it does indeed sound very good as it is.
What benefit would changing from 47k to 100k actually bring for my current cartridge do you think, or were you thinking that Ivwa# running a Koetsu ?

Dear @keswick : If you can try to change the default PS MM 47 impedance by 100k.  
If your system has the adequated resolution you will listen the benefits on that change.

R.

I was looking at SUT’s a few months ago. I ended up contacting Andrew Rothwell at Rothwell Audio UK. He offers a range if his own SUT’s. He made it clear that it was essential to ensure that any SUT selected should suit both the cartridge and phono-stage it would be used with.
i ended up purchasing the Rothwell MCL with 26db of gain. My phono-stage on the MM side had quite a low 36db of gain, so combined this gives me 62db of gain overall. That pretty much matched the 62db of gain from the MC side of my phono-stage.

i have been very pleased with the MCL and the performance from it. I was also very impressed by the helpful advice that I received from Andrew in helping me decide. 

@lewm I probably should have refrained from making that statement, but allow me to explain where it came from. Most low impedance, low output MC's I use (various Ortofon's including SPU, FR7, Ikeda 9, Miyabi, etc.) have between 0.2 and 0.3 mV output. My MM phono input stage has 40dB gain, so using a 20dB SUT (or 21 in the case of the Denon) would bring the total gain to 60dB. I have tried several SUT's with 20dB gain in my system (but obviously not this Denon) and in all cases and at the same volume level these low output MC's sound more alive and musical using a SUT with 30dB gain (like the Entré ET-200 and Ortofon T-3000 I'm using now).

The specified impedance is perhaps less significant, but I've tried some of these low impedance cartridges with SUT's that offer switching between low (usually 3 ohms) and high impedance (20-40dB). To my ears using the high impedance setting on low impedance MC's sounds much inferior to the 'correct' setting, of course with the appropriate correction of the volume control.

That's what I've learned from making these comparisons. So, when Denon specifies 21dB gain and 10-40 ohms impedance range for the AU-1000 model,  I'm inclined to think that this will not be the best choice for the cartridges I like. Perhaps the Denon flies in the face of that and I won't deny that possibility until I hear it myself.

Edgeware, I am puzzling over your saying ..."the Denon has only 21dB gain and not suitable for low impedance cartridges,..." First, 21 db of gain equates to a voltage gain of about 11-fold. So, it would provide more than adequate voltage gain for any LOMC with at least 0.4 to 0.5mV output, to drive a typical MM phono circuit with at least 40db of intrinsic gain. I don’t understand why you say it is not suitable for cartridges with low internal impedance, unless you know something about the inductance of the primary winding of the Denon, per the post by JCarr. With a typical MM input providing a 47K ohm load resistance, this Denon SUT would present the cartridge with about a 400 ohm load. Certainly that is OK for any LOMC, notwithstanding the issue of primary inductance. I actually think there is a bit too much hocus pocus surrounding the mating of a SUT to a cartridge on one side and the phono stage on the other. What you need to worry about is the voltage gain, which is related to the turns ratio of the SUT, the impedance seen by the cartridge, which needs to be about 10X or any ratio greater than 10X that of the internal resistance of the cartridge, and the inductance of the primary. Keep in mind also that a transformer essentially has NO impedance of its own; it only reflects an impedance from whatever is hooked to the secondaries back to whatever is hooked to the primaries, and vice-versa. In my opinion, the old custom of rating SUTs in "ohms" seems to be very confusing to a lot of people and really should be abandoned because it is not even informative. And finally, using a SUT gives up current in direct proportion to the voltage gain it affords. The product (voltage X current) is a constant on one side vs the other. If V goes up 10X, then current goes down 10X.

Mijo, Why are your wanting me to read about Sowter SUTs?

@lewm, https://www.sowter.co.uk/specs/1990.php

Dionisofun  you might not want to introduce logic  on this forum.   They have way to much fun doing what they do.  It is as simple as does that sound  like a real trumpet or tenor sax etc...Of course that is  if real music is your goal.

"In the world of audio there is a huge gap between what should  be and what really is."   You nailed it!!!

Enjoy the ride
Tom

It would seem logical that more connectors introduce more distortion.

"distortion that you can't detect"

Agree!!

In the world of audio there is a huge gap between what should be and what really is.

When will audiophiles start to stop speculating about what (in theory) should happen and start taking into account the empirical results heard by the human ear?

@edgewear : Not good for me because I owned for years the Denon AU-1000. Other owners or possible buyers have to know that works with no problem and not because I said it but because there is no technical reason why can’t do it .

Rigth now I’m enjoying the vintage LOMC Azden cartridge that has 0.25mv.

I tested dozens of vintage and today LOMC cartridges bis-bis using both: my active high gain and the Denon SUT and till today I never noted an anomaly or anomalies that could came for that impedance issue. 

R.

@rauliruegas my remark was based on the specs of AU-1000. If the information I've seen is correct, it has an impedance range between 10-40 ohms (which seems rather wide) and 21dB gain. At least on paper this doesn't sit well with many low impedance / low output cartridges, most of which are around 3 ohms impedance and 0.25 mV output (at least the ones I'm familiar with).

But apparently things can work out differently in practice, as your experience with the Etna SL suggests. Good for you!

@edgewear : The question comes because 3-4 weeks ago I had the Etna SL running through it and everything ok.

R.

Dear @edgewear : "  and not suitable for low impedance cartridges.."

From where or which is or are the reasons for your statement about the AU-1000.

I never read something like this about that SUT and my first hand experiences with told me that's false or at least somewhere misunderstood.

I'm really interested in your comment on.

R.

Hey Peter,

I also have a Lyra Kleos and when I was looking for a SUT my research led me to Bob’s Devices.

Bob personally recommended the Sky 30 set to 1:30 with Manley Chinook phonostage

Thats what I went with, great results

This avoids yet another pitfall of SUT, trying to sell for used something hardly anyone wants to buy new. Take a bath, you will!


That's why I buy used, if I get it at a good price and don't like it for what ever reason I can resell it and not lose anything. A popular or highly rated SUT advertised for a reasonable price usually gets snapped up pretty quickly. It's the odd balls that only work with a very limited cart selection that you need to find a buyer for.

BillWojo

@edgewear : The Denon performs very good with any LOMC cartridge impedance I experienced, no single trouble whith that I been aware off. I even listening with the Ortofon MC2000 and due to its extreme low output I only heard some noise but nothing that avoid to listen to that cartridge, yes not confortable at all but other than that cartridge I never had and have any worry about impedance.
I run the MM stage at 47k and at 100k and seems to me that works a little better at 100k.

Could be good for you and everyone to read next approach/explanation about SUTs:

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/mc_step-up_transformers_explai.html

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

@rauliruegas thanks for sharing. Both these units are highest quality and probably a 'step up' from the Ortofon T-3000 I'm using right now. But the Denon has only 21dB gain and not suitable for low impedance cartridges, so for me that's a no-no.
The AT-1000T gained my interest after I acquired the AT-1000MC, while the added feature of accomodating both low impedance (3 ohm) and high impedance (20/40dB) MC's simultanuously is also  interesting. Only 1000 made, so probably not easy to find at a reasonable price......

Dear @edgewear : "  I've compared dozens of low impedance MC's with mixed results, but generally speaking Ortofon SPU, FR 7, Ikeda 9 and Miyabi seem to prefer a SUT in the signal path (with some preferring silver wire over copper wire and vice versa), while Ortofon A95, MC Anna and Transfiguration Proteus sounded much better with active amplification...""

Like you I did and do the same SUT vs active cartridge quality comparisons where both phono stages ( MC and MM ) has the same quality level performance.

I own and owned several SUTs and by coincidence two of them that I still have came by Entré, I own too the AT 1000T that is dedicated for the AT MC1000 cartridge that you own, I own too 2 modified by me Denon SUTs the 340 and the AU1000. I'm using this last for the latest comparisons. Here its unique characteristics:

http://20cheaddatebase.web.fc2.com/needie/NDdenon/AU-1000.html


Look its wide frequency range and its heavy weigth.

Well, any vintage and today cartridge performs really really good with the AU-1000 but overall can't even the high gain active stages quality performance levels in my phonolinepreamp. Yes, near but not match it.

Btw, if you can and due that you have not preference on these alternatives try to get the AU-1000.

As a fact I can live easily with the SUT in my system but the high gain active alternative is the ultimate way to go.

Of course that everything is dependent of the whole design quality levels of any active high gain unit.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Me too

@no_regrets 

Couldn't agree more with this!

I do not understand how anyone would be able to categorically deny the worthiness of a component that they may have never even heard in their own system, simply because of a certain capacitor, wire, passive/active device, etc... that is being employed. I’ve always believed that the worthiness of a component is a combination of the entire circuit design and the sum of all the parts working together seamlessly vs just one sole aspect of the component in question... not to mention the importance of system synergy.

My Hashimoto HM-3 has recently been on loan to the HiFi Group I am a member off.
I missed a very recent meeting, where the HM-3 SUT was used in a demonstration with a Bespoke Built Head Amp.
The differences in the performances were reported on as a follow up in an email chain.
The Hashimoto has been claimed to have been mellow, relaxed and having a refined detail retrieval. 
I can concur using recollections of my experiences about the refined detail retrieval, I have noticed this myself when the SUT is in use.

The Head Amp has been claimed to have forward projection and airiness and incisive detail retrieval.
I can concur using recollections of my experiences, that when I have used a Head Amp in my system, the projection and clarity/lucidity of the presentation is noticeable and differs from a SUT in this area.
 
My experience with SUT vs Head Amp demonstration in my system will show a SUT to have a hint of Richness when compared to a Head Amp.
Are Mellow, Relaxed, Richness the same thing when different comments from different individuals are being offered about a SUT? 
Are Airiness and Incisive Detail Retrieval quite similar to clarity/lucidity when different comments from different individuals are being offered about a Head Amp ? 
Bear in mind another SUT 'might close the Gap' on the Airiness, but my experience is that SUT's add a hint of Richness, so the clarity/lucidity will be a harder gap to close in on. 
These are my thoughts on the matter based on my limited experiences.

If it is a must to get the presentation to meet the preferences of the end user and to be a satisfying long term experience, it is worthwhile experiencing each of the Designs (SUT vs Head Amp) to see how one is making an impact within a System.
 
    

Anyway you slice it... (whether it be pure tubed, SUT/tube, FET/tube, and yes even with some solid state devices, etc... ) I truly believe that we should try and remember that we, as vinyl lovers, should all feel thankful and blessed that we have so many great and talented designers who are able to provide us with a plethora of fantastic options that are available to us at so many different price points that it allows us all to have the opportunity to be able to enjoy the great sonics that vinyl can provide :)

I do not understand how anyone would be able to categorically deny the worthiness of a component that they may have never even heard in their own system, simply because of a certain capacitor, wire, passive/active device, etc... that is being employed. I’ve always believed that the worthiness of a component is a combination of the entire circuit design and the sum of all the parts working together seamlessly vs just one sole aspect of the component in question... not to mention the importance of system synergy.

We are all individuals, with our own set of ears, with our own unique way of hearing sounds. We all have our own set of listening preferences and sonic priorities. What is important to one, may not be to another. But, what we all "mostly" have in common is the love of music and being able to reproduce that in our homes :)

I know that it is the opinion of many, that in order to have a high gain phono amp that it must have to be a Solid State or FET design or else there will be just too much noise.  For those people I would suggest the Wavestream Kinetics Deluxe Phono Amp. I have admired Scott Frankland’s audio design work (phono, preamps, amplifiers) for decades but was never in a financial position to afford them. However, over the last couple of years, I have suffered 5 unexplained strokes and have recently been diagnosed with two cancerous tumors. I have come to realize that we may not get any mulligan’s in this game of life. 

So, on Feb 17, I placed a deposit with Scott for his most recent Wavestream Kinetic Level 5.1 Reference phono amp. His phono amp has always been on my "bucket list". It is an all tube design currently using (2 x 12AX7, 4 x 6DJ8); with extremely low noise ( I believe with the external power supply, noise is below 1uV (one-millionth of a volt ); providing 3 front panel selectable inputs = two MC at 62 dB of gain (without the use of SUT’s or FETS) with a useful cartridge range of 0.2mV to 1.2mV and one MM output at 42dB (you are able to choose your MM gain or you can have 3 MC ); having both balanced and RCA inputs and outputs; adjustable loading available on the back panel via custom loading plugs; and an essentially flat RIAA EQ curve within one tenth of a dB (.1dB) from 3 Hz to 40 Khz. *** The above specs are from the best of my recollection - if you have interest, please consult with Scott Frankland to confirm. He is wonderful to communicate with. ***

It is very dynamic, both in the micro and macro sense, throughout the entire frequency range.  It produces rich harmonics that are exhilarating when listening to violin/cello/acoustic bass, both reed and brass instruments, vocals, etc... all without sounding syrupy.  It is extremely quite, plenty of gain and very pure sounding... due to not having to use any FET or Solid State devices, no need to use Step Up Transformers and their extra set of interconnects and connections or having to fight with hum issues.

It is a very well thought out design, by an extremely talented designer and a true gentleman who is absolutely fantastic to deal with, Mr Scott Frankland.  I feel very blessed to be able to have this piece in my system.  At $9K new, I feel it is an absolute steel.  Once in a very great while, you might see one come up for sale on the used market, but not very often.  I consider this to be a true testament to the greatness of this phono amp as people who own it, hang on to it.  It is not a "flavor of the month" type piece, but rather something that you cherish and would like to pass on to your children.

In any case, just another excellent option to be considered :)

As for SUT's are concerned....  Not all SUT's are created equal.  There are some great ones, and others that are not so great.  I have a vintage Hirata Tango that has an exceptionally wide bandwidth with no ringing.  When used with some phono stages ( that are not up to the same refined standard of my Wavestream ) the Tango can absolutely improve the sound of those phono stages.  However, as nice as some SUT's can be, it is imperative that you match the SUT to your cartridge and phono stage.  You can't just simply use multiple different cartridges with a single SUT.  Just too many variables with gain, output, impedances, etc.  You also have to contend with additional interconnects, possible hum issues, etc.

Wishing you all the very best of health, love and happiness!
Don

@sokogear

If the phono stage has gain settings up to 60 or 65DB in addition to impedence selections for cartridge flexibility, why do you need an SUT? It would seem logical that more connectors introduce more distortion.

@billwojo summed it up nicely. The reason you "might" want a SUT is because it may sound better. Passive SUT vs active gain stages in order to get to the 60-65dB gain. Transformers have much more benign distortion characteristics than active circuits and are capable of producing a wonderful soundstage with detail and separation compared to transistor and op-amp alternatives. The main issue really is cost - transformers are incredibly expensive compared to transistors and chips. A complete MC phonostage is obviously more convenient than a separate transformer and MM phonostage. The MC phonostage made entirely with solid-state circuitry is way cheaper to produce than one with transformers.

In every case I have heard I prefer the SUT....but that’s just me, my gear, and my ears. To each his own preference.

sokogear, I think you have a pretty good handle on the situation. Never heard one myself so only know what turned up after a ton of research. These things are transformers, very specialized transformers at that, and so they are more a way of tweaking or fine tuning the cartridge than anything else. There are whole websites devoted to the subject, with in depth reviews of far more different SUT than one would think even exist! Never even knew so many were out there until I started digging into it.  

This sets up the perfect situation for some to be able to say the SUT is essential and others to say forget it what a waste, and both be right. Because if you luck onto one of them that is really good for your particular cartridge and phono stage then boy oh boy will you be happy. But you could just as easily wind up with nothing or worse, a royal headache. 

The sensible approach I think is what Decware does, make a phono stage designed for high output carts, and then offer SUT in various gains to suit different MC outputs. You can also trade them back in for another in case you need to for cartridge changes. This avoids yet another pitfall of SUT, trying to sell for used something hardly anyone wants to buy new. Take a bath, you will!

I have a Dynavector SUT, was hard to find, even harder to get documentation like a users manual (from dynavector that is) and expensive. But oh so nice, quiet, smooth, detailed and lush. Of course that’s with a Dynavector XX2, and run thru my McIntosh MX110Z. Highly recommended..

It would seem logical that more connectors introduce more distortion.

distortion that you can't detect

If the phono stage has gain settings up to 60 or 65DB in addition to impedence selections for cartridge flexibility, why do you need an SUT? It would seem logical that more connectors introduce more distortion.

If you are talking about an SUT instead of a phono stage because the impedence is already well suited or in addition a phono stage that has no gain capability, then I guess it makes sense.

Am I missing something?

Don't ignore the Hagerman Piccolo 2 head amp. Dead quiet and cheap at around $300.  Replaced a transformer in one system that was hard to keep from humming.

A coil inevitably has inductance. However there are some tricks of winding that can minimize it, as in Mills resistors. Otherwise wirewound resistors are inductive. It’s the law.

Might be a special trick, description about inductance is from the manual @lewm

Email Dave at Intact Audio, tell him about your preamp, cart, etc and he will wind SUT(s) to suit your needs. Not cheap (especially if you request silver wire) but custom wound to your cart/pre

Best,
-JP

A coil inevitably has inductance. However there are some tricks of winding that can minimize it, as in Mills resistors. Otherwise wirewound resistors are inductive. It’s the law.

You can read Arthur Salvatore’s reviews here. He’s comparing many great SUTs, but find his thoughts on ZYX Headamp:

"This is, most likely, the finest head-amp I’ve ever heard. I state this because it is competitive with the finest transformers I’ve had, while all the many other (external) head-amps I’ve heard are simply not in that league. The ZYX head-amp is a solid-state device! It is highly unusual for a successful cartridge manufacturer to also design and build an audio component that is so different in fundamental nature (non-mechanical in this instance), with such excellent performance. The relevant details..." -  Arthur Salvatore

If you want to see what’s inside the ZYX CPP-1 look at the images in my system. Battery powered headamp with special resistors that looks like an MC cartridge coil (I was shocked to see that). Resistors made by ZYX to transfer the output signals with no noise and no inductance at all. They are made of pure coil wire of MC cartridges, cryogenic purified. I remember it was highly regarded by Arthur Salvatore who compared it to some of the best SUTs ever made.

Bob’s SUTs are great for the money.
My favorites :- Thrax Trajan 
                         Ypsilon    
                         Auditorium     
                         Audio Note UK
                         Kondo Audio Note.
 You asked for the best, there you go.
All of those work with my Lyra Atlas Lambda SL.

Our phonolinepreamp is an active high gain SS fully balanced/differential true dual mono input to output, inverse RIAA eq. with measured deviation of 0.015db both channels ( includes a switchable Neumann corner. ), class A amp, non-feedback, four layers circuit boards, all input/output connectors soldered directly to the circuit boards ( no single wire here. ), external dual mono power supply and a third for the logic card, bipolar devices for the dedicated MC stages and FET for the dedicated MM stages, matched and hand selected active/passive parts, very wide overload margin, true low noise, a stand alone logic card with its own power supply, etc, etc, etc.

Wow, all that when a carefully matched step up transformer will meet or exceed a very expensive active stage.

There are different ways to accomplish the goal of raising a less than milli-volt signal to the input level that a MM phono stage is happy with. Some prefer a SUT like me and some prefer active gain stages like you.

A quality SUT will do the job very well and need not cost a fortune. Companies like Denon (Engineering firm and cartridge designers) and Cinemag (Altec Peerless based designs) have been around a very long time and have a proven track record. Look carefully at the specs, what deficiency's  are causing all these distortions?

I'm sure a high end active gain stage can perform well if properly engineered and manufactured with quality components. But for the price of that I can buy several SUT and cartridges. I also prefer to have a simple audio path, one passive component verses dozens of active components.

BillWojo

Correction. Ortofon T-30 is 3-48 ohms. 

I have both Ortofon T-20 and Ortofon T-30.  The T-20 (2ohms) is perfect for Ortofon MC20 mk-2 and I exclusively use it with it. The T-30 has a variable impedance selectable through a knob from 3-36 ohms (not continuous). Happy with both of them. I have used the T-30 with Dynavector 23R as well as Technics 305 and I find if you use the correct load the sound is not colored and frequency response is not affected. Thanks @jcarr for a scientific explanation. 

Dear @itsjustme : " You think a gain stage, amplifying a 0.05-0.5mV signal by another 10-20X has no distortion? Do you realize how lower the power supply noise must be? "

To your first question I don’t posted " has no distortion " and for the second question yes " I realize " because I have first hand experience in the overall/whole design and manufacture of a top phonolinepreamp that today can compete bis a bis  CH, Vitus, SimAudio, Gryphon, Dan D’Agostino, Dartzeel, etc, etc and where no all tube unit including Lamm can't touch it.

"" also not convinced that the active stage is a no brainer. ""

As I said it depends of the whole design. Our phonolinepreamp is an active high gain SS fully balanced/differential true dual mono input to output, inverse RIAA eq. with measured deviation of 0.015db both channels ( includes a switchable Neumann corner. ), class A amp, non-feedback, four layers circuit boards, all input/output connectors soldered directly to the circuit boards ( no single wire here. ), external dual mono power supply and a third for the logic card, bipolar devices for the dedicated MC stages and FET for the dedicated MM stages, matched and hand selected active/passive parts, very wide overload margin, true low noise, a stand alone logic card with its own power supply, etc, etc, etc.

R.

My phono stage came with a built in SUT, so I haven't fooled around much with different SUT.  I tried a super expensive Audio Note SUT feeding the phono stage in my preamp, but, I could never sufficiently ameliorate hum, so I haven't used that built-in phono stage.

A friend uses the Jensen SUT mentioned by audioguy85 in his homemade phono stage and this phono stage sounds very good.  I believe that Jensen SUT is also used in the quite pricey Zanden phono stages as well.  It certainly is worth consideration.

Seldom mentioned is the Jensen SUT. The mc-2rr-L @about $600 is a very good one. This version is a 1/10 ratio with an impedance of 430 ohms, which is what the cartridge will see. It is a great SUT for both the Hana el/sl or the denon 103. It is made in the USA. It is available in a 1/20 ratio as well.
https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/mc-2rr-l/


https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/jensen-mc-2rr-iso-max-moving-coil-phono-cartr...

"you have to listen"

. Halleluja! :-)

parts quality and construction matter (paraphrased)

halleluja!

beyond that, i have repeated said here that things like power supplies, coupling strategies, smart parts selection (don't get me going on boutique parts),layout etc. make a bigger difference than he basic device selection or circuit topology which get all the hype. I'm always amazed when i can do a tube and FET device, or an R2R vs PWM DAC, and can hardly tell them apart, if at all.

My own experience seems to suggest that things are not as simple as an active device being better than a passive one or vice versa. The interaction with the cartridge strongly determines the outcome.

This comes from extensive comparisons made with a Boulder 1008 phono amp. It has two inputs, so for this purpose one input was switched to MC and the other to MM, adding a SUT in the signal path. So basically I was comparing the MC gain stage of the 1008 with a SUT, all else equal. While the 1008 is not the best available, it's a competent solid state design without too many corners cut.

For me the outcome was undecided and simply depends on the cartridge. I've compared dozens of low impedance MC's with mixed results, but generally speaking Ortofon SPU, FR 7, Ikeda 9 and Miyabi seem to prefer a SUT in the signal path (with some preferring silver wire over copper wire and vice versa), while Ortofon A95, MC Anna and Transfiguration Proteus sounded much better with active amplification. Others were much less pronounced in their preference.

So what does this tell you? It all depends and you have to listen. That really helps, doesn't it?

+++ for the Clayton products mentioned above when going the SUT route to bliss

Dear @antigrunge2 : I’m with you because it’s what you are listening but with all respect to ZYX and obviously to you if the Artisan+SUT outperforms the Artisan MC stage then what you need is not a SUT but a better phono stage design.

The Artisan has to many gain stages ( 4 ), not very good RIAA deviation with a 0.4db swing: to high, input resistor wound by hand by ZYX: sorry again those resistors can’t compare its quality levels to Vishay or Caddok that are non-inductive like the ZYX ones.

I can’t argue against what you like and only point out some " high-ligths " that came from its design.

Take a look to the KTE MK1 ( the OP owns the MK5 that’s way better yet. ) that is the Valav LCR 1 in this shoot-out:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/LCR-RIAA-shootout.htm

a picture of the MK5:

https://www.kitsunehifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/LCR1-MK5-3-scaled.jpg

Engineering design level, parts selection design, circuit boards design and excecution quality of that design makes a difference in active high gain phono stages. Not all are almost the same.

R.