Subwoofer - thoughts on Rythmic F12

If I couldn’t afford something like JL Labs and could afford a little more than SVS then Rhythmic would be at the top of my list, and the F12 more specifically.  Excellent technology, build quality, and performance, and the only downside is that I don’t think they offer integration software but still wouldn’t be a dealbreaker for me because they’re so good.  I’d definitely get two at some point.  FWIW, and best of luck. 

Agree on Rythmik F12. I’m using a pair of them.

One thing to be aware of is that the F12 is available with your choice of an aluminum coned-woofer (the F12), and with a paper coned one (the F12G, the "G" to signify GR Research, whose Danny Richie collaborates with Rythmik Audio’s Brian Ding).

Choosing between the aluminum and paper cone may be dependent upon whether you want to prioritize music, or movies. Rythmik Audio’s Brian Ding prefers aluminum cones for their greater stiffness (compared with paper)---less cone "flexing", Danny Richie the paper cone for it’s more "natural" (he feels) sound when reproducing music, especially that played on acoustic instruments.

Either one will be a worthwhile upgrade from the SVS SB-12.

I'll echo the comments from @bdp24 but with a little more enthusiasm because my upgrade was actually from an SVS SB-2000 to a Rythmik F12G. The lighter weight paper cone with the servo motor tech is extremely fast and articulate, all the way down into the teens hz range. It can reveal sub bass textures like a very high end floorstanding speaker. It's faster than the aluminum cone version, and that's why I went with it. It moves less air, but I greatly prioritize music quality over movie soundtrack quality. I use a large gauge solid OCC silver power cable with it, and OCC copper interconnects.

Also, read up on or watch the video of Danny describing the numerous options beyond the ordinary on the PEQ amp. You may not think you'll want them until you realize you do.

2 thumbs way up for the Rythmik servo subs!

@gladmo makes a great point about the lower moving mass of the paper cone version of the F12, and the resulting reproduction of low frequency fine detail.

I have a pair of the Rythmik Audio/GR Research OB/Dipole Subs, each of which employs a pair of the paper cone woofer that has been optimized for open baffle use. Imagine the "speed" (settling time) of the F12 servo-feedback woofer, with no enclosure! It's the only woofer/sub I've ever heard that blends well with dipole planar loudspeakers (including a pair of KEF B139 woofers in transmissionline enclosures I own). If you've heard the Magnepan bass panels of the big Tympani and MG30.7 models you have an idea of the sound of the OB/Dipole Sub, but with reproduction of even the bottom octave (20-40Hz). But an OB/Dipole sub is not for everyone, or every application. For those there is the Rythmik Audio F12. I have no doubt a lot of REL and JL Audio owners would be very surprised if they ever heard a Rythmik sub.

I can attest that the F12 is pretty hard to beat, particularly if your emphasis is on music---it's tight, controlled, and has unlimited adjustability. Also, here's a tip---the instructions point out that the volume control does not dictate how loud the bass plays, but it IS an adjustment for how much bass you FEEL. Initially, I thought the bass from the F12 was on the lean side, but once I started experimenting with the volume control, I got all the bass I needed, and more.

In a word, Yes. I have Rythmik, SVS and REL subs in my system and I am currently considering upgrading to all Rythmik subs. The Rythmik is a little tighter than the SVS and much tighter than the REL, which is due to the servo in the Rythmik instantly stopping the driver which greatly reduces if not eliminates overhang or blurring of the musics structure. The servo also helps the sub cycle lower with less rolloff.

Beware that the servo puts a lot of stress on the amp and the driver so you will need to make sure that the heat created by the amp has a place to go and that cone stiffness is of primary importance.

The Rythmik may help a little bit with the booming issue you are having, but that is primarily a room issue, best addressed with acoustic treatments, e.q., multiple subs or all of the above.

The mushiness is probably a frequency overlap issue between the sub and your mains and you should be able to correct that by lowering the the lowpass filter setting on your sub or by adding a high pass filter to your mains

@bdp24,

Any idea who’s currently providing the drivers for Rythmik after the unfortunate fallout / set of circumstances surrounding TC Sounds of San Diego? The F12 incorporates some similarities of the stellar TV-12 Ultra (TC) had been producing at that time, some 20 years ago.

@dabel: I hadn’t heard about recent problems at TC Sounds, though I seem to remember hearing something awhile back about their amazing LMS Ultra 15" (or was it an 18"?) woofer being no longer available. That woofer was for years considered state-of-the-art for DIY home theater sub builders. I’m sure a call or email to Brian Ding at Rythmik would bring an answer. Warning: Mr. Ding is rather hard to understand, his accent pretty pronounced (no pun intended ;-) .

Of the ones I've tried here I'd say Rythmik.

@bdp24, are you sure about this. Last I heard some time ago their was a falling out, etc. etc.

Thanks though man, I’ll look into this further my friend. Having an Accent is not a problem.

:-)

No @dabel, I’m just saying I hadn’t heard a word about a problem between TC Sounds and Rythmik. In fact, your mention of it is news to me. That doesn’t mean it’s not true, of course.

But it does make me glad I got my woofers (four of the paper-cone 12’s optimized for open baffle use, two of the Rythmik aluminum-cone 15’s) when I did. I put the 12’s in a pair of open baffle W-frames built to Danny’s specs (viewable on the GR Research website), the 15’s in 4cu.ft. sealed enclosures of my own design (double-walled using 3/4" MDF, triple-layer baffle). I copied Jim Salk’s bracing (he builds his subs using the Rythmik kits, both 12" and 15"), the best I’ve ever seen. I put in braces every 6", front-to-back, side-to-side, and top-to-bottom.

I find most hi-fi’s woefully lacking in the ability to make music visceral (too much head, not enough body). Good subs help a lot.

Sorry for not being a little bit more specific in thee wee hours of the morning @bdp24, the show was last night :-)

The falling out happened to be between TC & others, SVS specifically “I believe.”

Wow, the Band killed it last night w/ PRAT btw. They were the last act at the Kensington  Club.

Take care of yourself, I’ve much respect for you.

;-)

Hey everyone.  Thanks for the advice.  Very helpful.  I ordered an F12 yesterday with the speaker level, LFE, and line in level inputs.   Since Friday, I disconnected both subs, and have been liking the base better with just the speakers (F208) - I feel like I am picking up more detail in the bass notes and it is tighter.  Super excited to try the new sub.  

I will ask this now but may start another thread.  I will try it first with line level inputs out of a benchmark DAC3, but do you think I would notice any difference by using the speaker level inputs instead (connecting amp outputs to speakers and sub)?  I doubt my ears could tell a difference, particularly at the low frequencies that I use the sub, but wanted to ask.  

In my opinion and experience, you are better off using a line level input. A speaker level signal will have a little more distortion and it will be converted back to a line level signal by the subs speaker level circuitry anyway, but it will still contain the distortion created by your main amps output.

If you noticed more detail in the bass notes after disconnecting your current subs it maybe because you have the low pass filter on the subs set too high, enabling too much frequency overlap between your subs and your F208’s. The 3 db down point on the F208’s is 31 Hz, so you might be able to set the low pass filter slightly above that, but more than likely it will have to be set below that, which unfortunately doesn’t leave much for your subs to do. You may want to consider high passing your mains which would lessen their work load and also reduce unwanted cabinet vibrations created by F208’s low end drivers giving you even cleaner and more detailed sound from your mains.

I bought one with the paper cone several years ago to experiment with. I liked it. I also got it in a piano ebony finish- not sure if that was a normal option. So I bought a pair of the 15 inch units- also ebony piano finish- those don't have a paper cone- for my main system. I use them with a small DSP controller just for very low bass 55hz down with a 24 db/octave roll off. They work great. The 12 now serves yeoman's duty in a small home theatre set up in our front lounge and is fine. Brian is a nice guy and even came to visit since I now live in Austin. Good company. Good product. Good value. 

In the main system, the sub system runs in parallel to the main system from a line output off the line stage- nothing is in the middle of the main system, electronically- power amps (SETs from Lamm) directly to mid-horns with no Xover. Wasn't terribly hard to dial in either with the continuous phase control. 

Hi everyone. I received my F12 - looks great and well packed, and seemed very solid and well made. Unfortunately it was the wrong model. I ordered the PEQ3 but was sent the XLR3. What is crazy is the box was mislabeled so no way for the shipping warehouse to know! I hope for Brian’s sake it was not the entire container that was mislabeled. I had that happen to a client once and they said it was a pain to pull and verify and re-mark each product.

Has anyone else had this happen with their Rythmik sub?

This stuff happens. I have an email into Rythmik with pictures and we will get it worked out. I will keep this thread updated and provide listening impressions/comparisons to my older SVS sb12 when I have the correct model. Thanks.

Where are your two SVS SB-12 NSD subwoofers located in your room? And / or how did you come to decide on those positions?

It's quite possible new units maybe faced with similar demanding room positioning interactions.