@audioman58
Thank you I'll be reading this.
Thank you I'll be reading this.
Please read SVS SB-3000 subwoofer
Subwoofer Suggestion
Hi guys I need your suggestion regarding subwoofers. My system is composed of Focal Kanta 3, Kanta center, 706BK it would be used 50/50 for music and HT. My room size would be 13m by 4m by 3(Length,width,height). Would it be better to go for dual pb1000/sb1000 or single sb3000 or single pb2000 or single PSA S1500?
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Please read SVS SB-3000 subwoofer https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-3000?wiz_medium=cpc&wiz_source=google&wiz_campaign=76042... |
Hello quality bass not one ofthe above mentioned is in itsleague. if you can squeeze $1500 for an extra $500 you can get two, one is much more power Full and tunefull you are missing the point please go to Svs website and read up on all this hav3. To offer NONE of the others hav3 ,as well as the great app you can run from phone or tablet and look at all the 5 star rewards it is a no brainer .i owned a audio store for years this. 13 inch sub power house would cost 3 x this only 4-5 years ago buy one ,then if you felt you needed another get one next year . trust me it has over 2,000 watts peak and very high current mosfets on the outputs.just take the time to read the full information sheet and reviews . truly nothing close in terms of performance technology unless you have $2500 for their ultra, their 4000 doesnot even have have the Split pole piece only the 3000 and ultra. If music is most important get the show sealed box ported if more for movies ,even ported is very good and more slam no ported box is as accurate as a good sealed but I hav3 played explosion with the 3000 SB literally shake the pictures and vents in the room !! |
Dual subs are better than one. Subs output into the mid-bass. A single sub collapses the bottom so the soundstage is like a truncated and inverted pyramid. Most sub installations are abysmal. It takes skill and work to integrate properly. As a pal once opined "EVERY other sub I've heard just boomed." |
If you bought 2 they give $100 off give them a call and satin black much better buy you can get 2 for $2000 are you currently in the US ? For now one set in the middle of the room would be plenty trust me.i sold a $1600 JL audio and bought this one after comparing my friends sb3000 .read up on it it has a dual voice coil only the ultra 16 has this meaning at low levels the center pole piece is used, giving you tunefull bass at low volumes then when higher volumes the outer part I’s used . Read up on it so many things like a 52 bit processor which makes it very accurate and huge magnet ,the app has a bunch of setting you tune the bass from your seating area , and has programs and a usb Mike you can buy to fully eq your room but some learning curve if you want it perfect , it is small but 52 lbs |
Kilo how big is your room , land this sub puts out thunderous bass don’t think it can’t fill your room my room is 30 ftlong by 16 wide 8 ft ceilings I sit in the front seats are 12 ft away and I get plenty of bass and never coming close to using it’s output maybe 60% at most. if you have the extra $$ the SVS ultra 16 Is Great I was thinking in the future to add a second sub to bring more balance thevalways recommend 2 subs for all room s have nulls .the app for iPad droid is excellent plenty is power |
it would be a great mistake to not check out the SVS Sb 3000 sub it has the most latest technologies it is the little brother of the great ultra 16 at $1000 beats anything at $2K great app for adjusting your room 18 hz and a dual voice coil ,meaning nice tunefull bass even at lower volumes and a 45 day audition, and they pay shipping very compact and a 5 yr warranty won sub of the year in 2019 |
ieales, " A decent sub, properly implemented, increases realism beyond all proportion to the frequency response." I couldn't agree more. So many conversations regarding subwoofers seem to focus on bass. My experience is that properly implemented subwoofers improve everything across the audio spectrum and when done correctly you can't tell the subwoofer is on. Well, you can't tell it's doing anything, until you turn it off. |
I hate to throw water on the party but if all you have to spend is $1,500 you are better of not doing a subwoofer. For that money you will never do your Focals justice. The overall effect will be worse than no subwoofer at all. A subwoofer system to match those speakers would be at least $4000.00. I would hold off till you have more to spend.Nonsense. By what metric does $ = ♥? A decent sub, properly implemented, increases realism beyond all proportion to the frequency response. |
On the cheap, you may get away with extending linearly your bass registers such as the AudioKinesis Swarm (which I believe is an great price/performance product) while maintaining cohesion and detail, but if you want both excellent performance on par with your Focals AND increased bass power, you’re going to have to spend more $ to the level of Rel or JR Audio for instance for the larger units.I don't think this is quite correct. The Swarm is a well-thought out product and Duke has always been great at getting a lot out of his designs. I've got a pair to go with my Classic Audio Loudspeakers, which have a pair of $2000 woofers in *each* cabinet. Yet the Swarm does the trick (I'm only using a pair of them as the front speakers can fend for themselves rather well; I'm using a pair of the Swarm cabinets to break up the standing wave that is present at the listening chair). As is the case with many things in this world, its not the cost of the thing so much as what you do with it :) |
Kulo, I hate to throw water on the party but if all you have to spend is $1,500 you are better of not doing a subwoofer. For that money you will never do your Focals justice. The overall effect will be worse than no subwoofer at all. A subwoofer system to match those speakers would be at least $4000.00. I would hold off till you have more to spend. |
You really need to experiment with sub settings and location. You can first try setting the subs crossover to be about 10-20 Hz higher than the low frequency response of your speakers. This allows for a nice blend of the Bass from the tower speakers to me more homogenized with the subs. Of course, you will need to play around with slope, phase, etc., and just listening to get the sound right. Other methods, the one you read about, would IMO prevent the sub from doing much work at all, unless you want to hear 20hz organ music and other very low frequency notes. This would entail a lot of subwoofer processing power, size, etc. depending on room dimensions to get this aspect correct for that purpose only, not really playing any of the bass associated with the range of 30-50 hz where many speakers would need a slight boost in bass. I use a Velodyne SMS1 EQ which I use to measure the in-room bass response with or without the subs turned on. It’s really handy to see what impact the adjustments have on the bass sound because you can see on the monitor the curve (15-200hz) and how adjusting each parameter will either smooth or cause jagged peaks. This Velodyne allows one to also adjust slope, rollover, and cutoff, phase, etc. As others also have stated, two or more subs are better than one. One thing I notice is that if you increase the bass volume too much, the soundstage collapses due to bass smearing. This is the effect of the powered bass not being perfectly time aligned with main speaker drivers. That’s why you need to experiment. You should not hear bass increases in reality, it should be a smooth transition which provides a congenial in room response. For ultra loud and excessive bass emphasis, like rock concerts volumes, forget what is stated above, and adjust the subs to just play loud because at such extreme volume levels no one cares about sound stage, just loudness and bass. Listen to music with drums, standup bass with and without the subs, and also listen for collapsing of the soundstage with subs in use. |
@kennyc If I were in your shoes, though not ideal, I’d seriously consider the Swarm.Alright thank you very much, I’ll see if I can push the budget a bit further. Also, you may consider the used market to save $ and/or upgrade.I’ve actually tried looking for used subs in my place there’s not much so I think I’ll have to go brand new. Thank you for your help. |
@kulo I suspect you know the truth. You’re very fortunate to have great sounding highly resolving speakers. Imagine swapping out one of the Focals mid/bass drivers for a lower quality one- you probably wouldn’t have liked the lack of cohesion/sound and wouldn’t have purchased in the first place.Another analogy is if you heard a larger Focal speaker with bigger bass drivers but these bass drivers were also sub par, you’d likely reject them also. On the cheap, you may get away with extending linearly your bass registers such as the AudioKinesis Swarm (which I believe is an great price/performance product) while maintaining cohesion and detail, but if you want both excellent performance on par with your Focals AND increased bass power, you’re going to have to spend more $ to the level of Rel or JR Audio for instance for the larger units. Otherwise, you’ll have to compromise. Single subwoofers can be very problematic due to room modes, and multiple subwoofers can damage your pocketbook. If I were in your shoes, though not ideal, I’d seriously consider the Swarm. It would definitely elevate your system significantly towards both goals, level out room modes, and hopefully may be satisfying enough. Another option is to use cheaper less fidelity subwoofers used exclusively for HT. Also, you may consider the used market to save $ and/or upgrade. However, I haven’t researched whether or not the wear and tear of used subwoofers should be a concern/issue. |
I bought 2 SVS sb2000 subs on sale for $650 each (price reduced when they brought out the sb2000 pro model). They compliment my Martin Logan 60XT towers. I set the crossover at 80HZ and let the subs handle frequencies below that. Room placement is not optimized and I seldom play music real loud. I’m not sure I have them dialed in correctly — read somewhere that mains show be set at 20 HZ and let the subs handle below that (?). Don’t know if that advice works or not. |
I just added dual Rythmik L22s to support my Tekton Pendragons, and I’m very happy with the sound after weeks spent integrating. As stated above, consider rolling off the mains. I use a K231 active crossover at 70-80hz, and this creates incredibly powerful and tight bass from the subs, while allowing the mains to offload the lowest freqs, which cleans up the entire midrange. This method is challenging, and it can sound weak down low until everything is properly dialed in and integrated. Then you have deep bass, clean low-mids, clearer voices, and a sense the bass is truly emanating from the same world as the rest of the music. It’s labor intensive to dial in, but I found it way better than running the mains full range and reinforcing with subs, which led me to different flavors of muddy midrange. This is very system/room dependent, and may not work for you, but hope it helps! Getting bass right makes everything better. |
First of all you need a continuous phase control, polarity control and multiple crossover slopes. Second you need to roll the lows out of the mains. Doubly important with ported mains. This can be a simple 1st order capacitor crossover to the main amp. Third, a sub with a control app to equalize the bottom to the room can do wonders. Among others, the Martin Logan x series have all of the above. see http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/SubTerrBlues.php for setup and general sub info. The Finally graph shows the proof of the pudding is in the eating. |
When I brought the kanta 3 home I loved the mids and highs but the bass was a mess, +10db at 100hz and -20 at 80 hz with a little recovery around 60 hz b4 falling off the chart. My room. Moving them to the long wall and playing with boundary placement did smooth them out a lot, but they never did offer much below 70 hz in my room. I would try a single sub between the speakers first and if that don't work then buy the second. A flat measuring speaker isn't necessarily desirable and the Kanta only needs help with the bottom 2 octaves. |
One of the suggestions is build your own subs. Your own homemade DEBRA/swarm system. Here is the amp used: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sa1000-subwoofer-amplifier-rack-mountable--300-811 And a cheaper alternative: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sa230-230w-subwoofer-amplifier--300-813 The setup instructions are on the "debra" website. Just need to build four small passive subwoofers. Build from scratch ( or pay a local carpenter/cabinet maker) with plans or buy a kit for 8" or 10" subs. |
I got the DEBRA array (4x 10” passive subs powered by 2x 1000w amps in my 15x20 room. I’ve tried upgrading speakers and still no bass (Tannoy Turnberry). Turns out it’s because of the standing waves in the room. I tried changing speaker location and listening spot- a little improvement. Once I added the DEBRA, completely got rid of my bass problems and blends perfectly. Best money spent on my system so far. |
What about HSU subwoofers? Reading the fine print on their webpage they ship outside of the US and take PayPal and wire transfer (etc.), but some coordination needs to be done before the purchase by contacting them directly. If under $1500 you could purchase two 12” VTF-2s + shipping or one 15” VTF-3 + shipping. Shipment will be from California. Ported and sealed mode for 50/50 music/movies if desired. |
