Streamers?

Not sure about how it caches, but the Innuos Zen Mk3 is definitely worth a look.  They keep upgrading their Sense software and sonics have been improving with each upgrade, and it’s free — which is nice.  Just one option.  Best of luck. 

There are lots of good streamers out there.  I usually tell people to figure out which one they like the interface to and whether they will ever want to use Roon.

However, while you figure it out, there are some very good inexpensive streamers out there that you can pick up cheap and have a significant improvement over what you have. 2 streamers you can pick up used and then sell for what you paid for them are the IFI zen and the Allo USBridge  Signature.  

I have the latter in my second system.

Jerry

I'm an Auralic fan one thing to consider with a streamer is the interface, I find the Auralic LDS app to be fantastic.

Look for a used Aurender N100H. This machine has internal HDD storage for music you own, and has an internal cache SSD for playing streamed music.  It outputs USB to your DAC.  If you need Coax input to your DAC, look for an N100C or N100SC as they also have Coax digital output.  The Conductor App is easy to learn and use.  Good luck!

One with cd ripper would be fine, but I do not need another dac, amplifier nor pre-amp, nor do I need roon etc.

Cocktail Audio X50 D

https://www.cocktailaudio.com/home/sub01.php

@nevada_matt 

I just purchased an Innuos Pulse. It outputs USB, SPDIF, and AES/EBU simultaneously. I have it feeding two DACs without issue. I love it!

try iFi Neo Stream (streamer) 

+ iFi iPower Elite 15V 

streamer & power supply total under 2k USD. 

I would recommend a used Aurender streamer (N100… I have one, see my profile). These are very high quality and make up for all the insufficiencies of networks. Both of mine play flawlessly while I can’t get my iPad to refresh the screen. If you are not near your router, just plug in a wall wart wifi extender next to your system and plug Ethernet cable into that.

About DACs. Less expensive DACs frequently excel at some things and not at others. The better the DAC the more all aspects improve. I would sell both and get a better DAC. Don’t evaluate on the basis of what technology they use, but on the basis of sound. Not sure of your price range but a Schiit Yggdrasil (~$2K) is and outstanding DAC that does not have any weaknesses.

Yeah, the phone needs to get out of the loop. That is a great way for really terrible sound. Use your phone as a controller. This is how dedicated streamers work.

Itrul6believe a dedicated dac  with a streamer is essential to get the best of your system. innous  ,as well as  Melco have good streamers . I have trulyspent $1000s in experimentation ,Sonore has a very good medium l IHave found using several Quality LPS , starting witha 3.1 docsis Modem- router combo then adding a 8 amp LPS , usun* high quality fuses is essential go8ng to a media converter Such as 2

snore Optical deluxe from Ethernet to fiber optic creates a bridge, noise cannot travel over light ,at the  clean end a Sonore deluxe fiber optic back to Ethernet RJ45  and essential hesr to to have 2 high quality cables .  $4-5k before we get to the dac ,or streamer .  Even with a $2k dac using a dedicated server is very good after eliminating the noise ,btw noise absolutely travels from house to house .signals are in packets ,but noise = jitter , this is one way to truly get digital sound 

very detailed and natural , fuses is another issue for dac Audiomagic M1 fuse,

land Synergistic Purple ,the AM fuse has better image density and Bass.  

I truly believe  a dedicated dac  with a streamer is essential to get the best of your system. innous  ,as well as  Melco have good streamers . I have truly spent $1000s in experimentation ,Sonore has a very good medium l IHave found using several Quality LPS , starting with a New  3.1 docsis Modem- router combo then adding a 8 amp LPS , using * high quality fuses is essential going to a media converter Such as 2 Sanore optical  deluxe from Ethernet to fiber optic creates a bridge, noise cannot travel over light ,at the  clean end a Sonore deluxe fiber optic back to Ethernet RJ45  and essential to have 2 high quality cables .  $4-5k before we get to the dac ,or streamer .  Even with a $2k dac using a dedicated server is very good after eliminating the noise ,btw noise absolutely travels from house to house .signals are in packets ,but noise = jitter , this is one way to truly get digital sound clean.,very detailed and natural , fuses is another issue for LPS as well as  for dac Audiomagic M1 fuse, and  Synergistic Purple ,the AM fuse has better image density and Bass.  Just to show others there are other options ,you can go fiber optic throughout if you want through Sonore ,and Using HQ player can take Roon ,QObuz,Tidal to ampnother level it’s built into the back end of Roon. Where does it end ?

I heard a Holo Audio streamer today at a seasoned audiophile's house. 30 years plus. He said that he paid about $800 for this and cannot figure out why anyone would pay more. It's a giant killer. 

I'm interested in this post, as I am also wondering which streamers do significant caching to optimize data flow.  Although there were several responses, the only streamer mentioned as meeting this requirement was the Aurender.  Are they really the only one?

The Aurender is the only streamer that officially states that is uses “caching” instead of “buffering”..

However, they do not specifically state that applies to network streaming. Reading their docs it seems as if only applies to “files” it reads from storage.

I looked very closely at the Aurender N150.. but it only has one, usb, for DAC connectivity.

The innuous pulse mini looks attractive as I don’t use AES. Looks like I can use the usb (dsd native to 512) to the r2r dac and the 24/192 optical to the sigma delta.

For the types of tracks played, I think that would be good.If output is easily selectable on the Pulsemini. Has anyone who has a pulsemini tried that type of configuration?  And does anyone know if the buffering can be configured .. as in, “get the whole track buffered before playing”?

Ps,

I also tried the BS node 2i ….. again.

Still… after “factory reset” it does lose all my configs, and the tidal sub login is gone, but even though it is plugged in with wired ethernet, it still will only try to attempt to use one of the previous (ssid and password changed on router) wifi ssid and password.. ie, the wifi configs “magically” survive the “factory reset” that wipes all other configs and seems to “bar” the wired interface from being used.. (shows no internet connection, even though the router shows it on the wired network with an ip address)

I have a Node 2i Bluesound streamer.  Do more expensive streamers really sound better?  If, why?  Has this been blind tested?

The Aurender products do cache streaming content. 

The N100H , N100C, and N100SC are legacy products that are still supported and you can find them used. 

Also, all the digital outputs on the Aurender products are active simultaneously. So the selection of which DAC you want to play is on your downstream equipment. 

I have had good luck with Lumin U1 Mini. There is the newer U2 Mini model now also within the price range.

I do also have the upper tier Lumin U1 and while I can hear an improvement fro the mini in many systems you would not notice a big difference. A little wider and deeper sound stage.

If you need wireless a TP-Link N300 bridge $30 can be powered by the Lumin USB port.

Better quality streamers sound better, by a very large amount, not at all hard to hear. No special testing is required to hide from bias. It is absolutely obvious. This of course assumes you have appropriate associated equipment.

I have used MACs, PCs, low end streamers, $3K, $5K, $10K…. And now own a $22K (mostly Aurender) streamer. There is nothing subtle about the differences in sound. A great streamer completely isolates you from the noise, vibration and deficiencies in the network and provides an optimal output. My streamer sounds as good as my great vinyl / phono stage analog leg. With an inexpensive streamer… it was not even remotely close.

Recently upgraded from a Bluesound Node 2i to an Auralic Aries G1.  Now that they have the G1.1 out you can scoop up a G1 and save a ton!  I got one that was a demo for an Audio Advisors for $1,200 off new G1.1.  Most changes are cosmetic. Sound is fuller and more detailed.  I switched back after a few weeks and that is when I really noticed the difference.  Next upgrade is a better Denafrips then I am calling it for a  while.! LOL

I settled on doing the innuos pulse mini (should be here in a week or so) with output over usb to an r2r dac for some types of music, and a toslink (24/192) to a delta sigma dac for other types of music (loud rock, aka AC/DC). Both dacs do full mqa unfold..  More instrumental through r2r..

I can feed the pulse mini from qobuz/tidal/NAS..

I didn’t go with Aurender simply due to my laziness where I would have to move the usb between dacs..

I have ordered the Holo Red streamer ($800) to replace the streamer card in my PS Audio DSD Mk I DAC. As streamer costs go, this one is modest, but we'll see what improvement is wrought. Probably connect AQ Vodka ethernet (excellent) from router to Holo Red, then an AES/EBU Nordost Odin digicable from Holo out to PS Audio DAC, see how all that goes. Neal

@nglazer , please report on your experience with the Pulse Mini, as I think there are many of us that are interested.  Thanks.

@nglazer 

Did you really mean “FAKE AES/EBU Nordost Odin digicable”????

Sorry, meant that for @nevada_matt.

Sorry, meant that for @nevada_matt.

Should be here by Monday according to DHL tracking.

Rockrider,

My mother taught me to ignore puerile comments, so I am ignoring.

@nglazer wrote: "I have ordered the Holo Red streamer ($800) to replace the streamer card in my PS Audio DSD Mk I DAC. As streamer costs go, this one is modest, but we'll see what improvement is wrought. "

I recently purchased the iFi Neo Streamer and use it via the fiber optical input.  My LAN is also all-fiber (immediately after the ONT), so this is a YMMV kind of statement.  But in my setup, the iFi was/is almost indistinguishable from the PSA Bridge II even though I was feeding it via I²S from the iFi.  Honing in my network a few years back proved to be a much greater impact on the sound (ie. adding LPS units in place of cheap SMPS, inserting Sonore FMCs, EtherRegen, etc).

@nglazer 

Thanks for letting me know my question came across as puerile. Sorry about that.

But it is a serious question, since a genuine Nordost ODIN AES cable is 5 figures USD.  You were kind enough to include your cable setup in the description.  I agree that cable choices are important.

I hope you choose to let us know along with your assessment of the Holo Red, so we will have your complete picture. 

Apology accepted, Rider. Thank you.

I actually purchased the Odin digicable in 2015 from a highly rated Audiogoner. Yes, it was 5 figures USD, but not ridiculously so compared to the IC's, which are two cables. I compared the Odin to the then SOTA digicable Stealth Sextet back then, and the Odin was audibly superior. So I bought and kept it ever since, running from my old Bryston BDP-1 with an external HD via the BDP-1 to the PS Audio DSD DAC. Don't use it very often, and can repurpose the cable when the Holo Red arrives (in its due time).

Will post my impressions vs the DAC streamer card. Neal

So, got the pulse mini, hooked up with usb to gustard R26.

configured my qobuz and tidal in streamers.

I cannot play any master.  Mqa files quit downloading after 2-8 seconds.

so far, the only thing I can see is that the pulse mini shows my tidal login as hifi instead of the hifi plus I pay for… and can use on other devices (phone, Ipad, PC)..

flac files feom both qobuz and tidal play fine.

inuos support emailed me today.  They will do a, scheduled for now anyway, remote diagnostic session Monday morning.

Seems the problem is related to the inuos login to tidal and not getting the correct sign in so I am denied mqa downloads.

All fixed. Playing full mqa and qobuz.

switching between the dacs is easy enough is easy.

so far, knock on wood, the stop/start track issue has not come back.

I did try the builtin dac of the inuous. Just not my cuppa.

So far, I am enjoying the new setup.

now if only my tekton subs would ever show up.. (ordered before christmas..)

Oh yeah… volume on inuos has to be at 0 for mqa pass through, then use external dac volume control.

Whatever you do - don't buy a Musical Fidelity MX streamer. Very well built but buggy slow software. The one I just tried crashed with Roon at higher bit rates. Much better off buying a Lumin U1 Mini used for around $1200 which is rock solid and good software. 

I also had lots of issues with iFi Zen stream in the past. Especially a volume out not staying at 100%. It also has slow buggy software.

Oddly enough the Raspberry Pi I built for Roon sounds better than either the MF or iFi and works flawlessly! Running that one into a Denafrips Aries 12th Anv for a headphone amp. Sounds really good.

If you're not fixated on USB, well the Wiim streamer is killer. I've had it in my high end tubes monoblock system and it's super. They update the software all the time. I use it for streaming Qobuz and Amazon since December via coax. Super and super cheap. Just connect your own ps and it will elevate to levels which are surprising.

https://www.amazon.com/WiiM-Pro-Chromecast-Multiroom-Compatible/dp/B0BJDY6D1W/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8