Starting Point for Room Treatments?

@sokogear I’ve contacted GIK and sent the form and info.  Sounds like they may tell me the same thing, my system being at one end of an open concept floor with open space on one side (aside from an island that forms a semi wall) and a giant wall stretching 12ft to the ceiling on the other.  They said they’d get back within three days.  

+1 for GIK acoustics. I appreciated their honesty when basically saying there wasn't much I can do because or the windows in the corner almost touching a few feet off the floor, and open spaces. Moving my speakers 3 feet from the wall were a gigantic improvement, even though it was only about a 3-6 inch move. Plus I sit less than half way back in the extended open room.

It really depends on how dedicated you make your room to audio. My system in a multipurpose den - the main living area in the house. I get to listen to it much more, but have to compromise with not being able to reconfigure it for single purpose listening.

Thanks again All - I've submitted all the forms to GIK, but I've also been reading and watching videos using the references provided in this thread. I will also follow up with verifying room response with software and a mic.

@baylinor 

I hadn't thought about over damping until you brought it up ,  I had set up my room panels when I had rear ported speakers .  I upgraded the speakers to ones that are front ported  and failed to re-examine the room treatments , actually only the front ones . I discovered that I was over damping !  while standing behind the speakers I could basically only hear the lower frequencies it turned out that removing some panels the images expanded and the 3d effects blossomed . 

Now thanks to this discussion I will be looking into the effect of a diffuser  on the front wall . 

You can check out my virtual system using Thiel as a tag .

From what I’ve been told ,as a general rule for 2 channel, diffusion on the front and back walls absorption on the sides is a good starting point along with some corner bass traps. As others have said, be careful with over absorption. First reflection points are most important on the sides. Don’t forget about the ceiling and try to get a thick rug on the floor if possible. I’m a big fan of quadratic diffusers up front and back.

Then I’ll decide what to do!

Ask the mrs too… 😍

Thanks for the added advice (including marital advice…). 

Going to be a bit of a process.  I think I will start by reading that book and YouTube links above to educate myself first.  Then I’ll start taking room measurements with the software and mic.  Then I’ll decide what to do!  Thanks All.

@kota1 

Thanks for the compliments, specially about the art work. Not sure which ones you are referring too, but the front wall are oils on canvas that I painted more than twenty years ago. I specially like the main center one which is a beach South of Pensacola after a major hurricane broke up all the dunes. I lived there for 16 years and I really can flow into it when listening to music. 

Furniture, carpets, artwork...you wind up with something sounding like a "room" where people might live. Otherwise, it's s little messy but most would agree the best solution is to get ceramic sheets with small perforations and fill them with Chia Pet seeds, water the whole thing (that's the messy part) and wait...there ya go!

I'll put in another vote for Room EQ Wizard software,  which is free. Spend some time on the tutorial videos. It takes a bit of time to feel like you are even a novice, but this is a hobby, right?

While I'm at it, I would take a vote away from GIK acoustics. I've heard nothing but good things about them, but my own experience was disappointing.  I had the strong impression that they wanted to convince me my room had the problems they could readily solve rather than the problem I wanted to fix. I eventually worked with Music City Accoustics and had excellent service with custom work done with amazing results. 

But back to the software...both of these companies will want your data files generated from REW, and so taking some measurement first is definitely the right thing to do, especially given the weirdness of your room.

@baylinor 

Nice job on the room and the art work! Looks both comfortable and functional.

What holmz said :-)

My wife got a remodeled master bath and kitchen, I got the house of stereo. It's always a give and take.

^Wise^

Or we have a society like the one where the women are being tortured.

Ideally you want diffusion between the speakers, hard to do with a television, but if you don’t mind a removable panel then it’s much more possible.

Everyone focuses on first reflection points but my experience is that you need a critical mass of treatment before those panels matter. I mean, if you put in exactly 4 panels you will barely notice the difference no matter where. Over damping the mid-hi frequencies can result in too much bass but also a compression of the sound stage. This is where combination diffusor / absorbers come in.

My wife got a remodeled master bath and kitchen, I got the house of stereo. It's always a give and take.

^^^^^There is a helpline for Men fearful of their spouses 🤣

Divorce

A number of issues arise 1.  Do you have a problem? Mine was booming bass in a very small room, bass traps helped but two subwoofers solved it, the solution may be counter intuitive. 2. Measure the room response before and after, adding 'treatments' can make matters worse. 3. Be careful regarding professional solutions, most are for audio studios, here the problem is noise from outside getting in, your problem is noise from inside staying in, different problem, completely different solutions. 4. Each new treatment is impacted by previous treatments, sometimes you need to take things away when adding new treatments. 5. Do not create double live or double dead rooms. If you 'deaden' one end don't deaden the opposite, try deadening behind and half to the sides of your speakers, not all the room. 6. New equipment very rarely solves the problem, however I just replaced $5000 pre / power 150 Watt amps with $3000 40 Watt tube amp, could not be happier. Sometimes a rethink is needed. 7.  By the way nearly 70 and been trying for 50 years, never give up.

Another vote for GIK Acoustics and their no pressure invaluable consultation. They were extremely helpful and patient in my journey to properly treat my room. 

Just take a look at my house of stereo system, it will give you an idea of how involved the room treatment process can be. But ultimately incredibly worth it. I never knew I could hear the kind of sounds that I do now. You won't get it right at first, you may have too many absorbers and not enough diffusers, or the other way around. Your room will tell you. Keep adding and subtracting accordingly and in the end you will get it right and for a lot less money than the endless equipment upgrades regardless of what treatment you may over or under buy. Enjoy the journey!

Awesome….  Going to try to dig into this process and hopefully have some fun!

I completely agree with glennewdick and meant to include his message in my paragraph. I also use room eq wizard but with a Dayton em6 and focusrite Scarlett interface. I hope the USB mics are less fussy to use. Learning REW and performing consistent measurements takes a little time and effort but is ultimately easier than hunting and pecking by listening, imo.

I have only seen GIK products a couple times. My panels are also covered in Guilford of Maine fabric, though, which turned out well. They can send you samples, which I really recommend. 

glennewdick , thanks for the tip. Any insight on pointers to get me started on the right software, mic, and process? I will look into this myself but wondering if you have any resources for doing this off the top of your head. Much appreciated!

S/W: REW
Microphone: UMIK
Process: Google and find REW YouTube demos.

@glennewdick , thanks for the tip.  Any insight on pointers to get me started on the right software, mic, and process?  I will look into this myself but wondering if you have any resources for doing this off the top of your head.  Much appreciated!

Have you measured your room's acoustics? That should be your first step as you cant fix what you don't know is wrong.  there is enough free software now that this is a simple process, you need a calibrated mic and a laptop. the mic can be got off amazon or most places that sell instruments and recording stuff will have them as well. 

Perfect, these were just the pointers I was after.

@ohlala I think I will seek out that “Master Handbook of Acoustics” book. I treat this as a hobby so I might as well learn as much as I can in the process.

That said I might also go the GIK route based on others’ positive experiences with their free consulting service. Does GIK have nicer prints than simple solid color panels? This is going on our living room so introducing panels can go one of two ways with the rest of the family… at least I can say it’s better than stacking pillows and blankets everywhere which I am constantly doing these days!

There are no bass issues I can detect in my room (albeit Rel subwoofers are incoming so we’ll see!) and definitely some minor echo issues.

@erik_squires thanks for the tip on the TV. Not sure installing drapes will work aesthetically (but maybe?), and my fear is that there will be too much dampening as the drapes would hang from the ceiling. A heavy quilt over the TV itself seems like slightly too much, and if I allow it to hang lower than the TV it gets even worse. Therefore I’m still thinking an acoustic panel with some simple hooks I can attach might fit the bill. Won’t be an issue for me to remove, the TV doesn’t get used daily, but my stereo does.

@erik_squires you mentioned diffusers behind the TV and to the sides of the TV. How do I know when to use diffusers vs dampeners? I would have guessed that dampeners would be what I want behind the speakers to the left and right of the TV, but I’m also thinking you are likely right as I’m only guessing…

@kota1 thanks for the link, will check it out as well.

Not sure if I have picky speakers or if my room is picky, but getting my speakers positioned just right was a very intensive process.  Distance from the rear wall was pretty simple but experimenting with distance apart and toe-in drove me nuts, because the absolute tiniest adjustment made big differences I could easily hear.  Once I reached this micro-adjustment stage, it was vocals in the center of the soundstage that I found to be wildly changing with the tiniest of adjustments.  Some adjustments would add “air” around the vocals and some would remove air but add focus and coherence.  Took a while to get the right blend of the two and I was using headphones to use as a reference to what the vocals should sound like in my room.  Finally nailed that balance.

This is a good video and shares everything you need to get started:

Room acoustics were (and continue to be) a huge issue for me that I’ve slowly been chipping away at over the course of the past 1.5 years. I actually found GIK free advice really helpful - they provide general education about room acoustics and then suggestions on treatments for your room via email after completing the form below (not obligated to purchase). Nice system btw.

https://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice-form/

erik_squires suggestion of curtains/drapes is your best TV issue option , treat it like a large window ,  An area rug between the speakers and your couch would also be an improvement  .  As for your side walls try to use panels of different colors to make it seem like a wall of art , I use 5 colors in my treatments ,  black, white , light gray , dark gray and red . After all I have to be looking at them every time I listen to music . 

Look at GIK Acoustics. I just found out about them a few weeks ago. Wish I found them sooner. Their devices are very reasonably priced. They will also help analyze your room. 
I ordered 2 of their quad diffusers. Very good price and their shipping prices were great. I live up in Alaska, so shipping prices are always an issue.

Joe Nies

Deciding on an approach to treat a room is personal decision as there are many products and DIY options, including old standards and more esoteric approaches. The first step, imo, is to define the issues. A common first step is experimenting with household objections, but the problem with blankets and drapes is that they are usually too thin to have decent bandwidth. That is what you are experiencing with the TV cover. 

Room calculators are basically useless outside of helping one understand the basic concepts. I would suggest reading Master Handbook of Acoustics to understand room acoustics. I would also suggest in room acoustic measurements, which is far more powerful and accurate than room calculators, so you actually figure out what is going on. 

I ended up consulting Nyal Mellor at Acoustic Frontiers out of San Francisco. My room has significant bass and echo challenges. I wanted to solve all the issues at once as well as installing panels with good aesthetics. That is the benefit of the consultant as the consulting fee was very reasonable and much less than the acoustic panels. I did all the measurements, adjustments and the installation. He solved my bass issues at an hourly rate and then created a document describing and grading different parameters of acoustics and then went on to design a solution. He is very good. 

I recommend a one stop approach, go to sonituusa.com and order a room kit. I followed their acoustic recipe and got great results buying individual treatments. You can see in my profile. A room kit is easier and probably better. 

Curtains work over the TV!  As would perhaps a hanging tapestry you could hang from a rod and move out of the way or push behind the TV.

As for over damping, don't forget diffusors, especially behind and to the sides of the TV. 

If your floor is very live you can compensate a little by overdamping the ceiling, an area we too often ignore.