ProAc K1 should sound very good in that room.
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@ullogu1 - It’s funny you happen to ask this question, as I just went through this myself. I saw a used Gryphon 120 come up for sale used from a dealer and I jumped on it. Initially, I paired it with my QLN prestige 3 speakers. The synergy didn’t work, as the Gryphon 120 has a dark character on the top end. I switched in my pair of Dynaudio Heritage Specials speakers and they sounded absolutely fantastic with the Gryphon 120 amp. The Dynaudio Heritage Specials feature one of Dynaudio’s top end tweeters, so there is a lot of focus on the upper frequencies. When I listen to that pairing, my urge to upgrade or tweak equipment sort of goes away. I’d read somewhere that Dynaudio tends to be synergistic with Gryphon. I was fortunate to have a pair of Dynaudio speakers, so I got lucky. Can’t recommend that pairing highly enough. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@milpai - I’ve demoed some proac speakers. My sense is they don’t have enough treble energy to compensate for the dark nature of that amp. My two cents.
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I have a similar room size and listen to rock, jazz, classic and pop. The Harbeth 30.2 to an excellent job if you like the English monitor sound . They have been a recommended speaker by stereophile for many years and one of the best stand mount in this price point . Easy to listen , accurate reproduction of voice and instruments and very versatile. The bass is bang on but not as deep as floor standers. Your integrated would drive them easily . Good luck | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Have you guys listened to the Gryphon Diablo 120 amp in your own system? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I love Harbeths(I've owned P3ESR and 30.2) but I don't think they'll work here. Never heard Focals but given what others have said they may be a good fit. The Dynaudios...maybe...never heard this model but I used to have C1 Platinums and they are dark as well. Perhaps this isn't the right amp for me? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
some options:
wait for it.....
used Josep Audio Pulsar, Marten Parker Duo, Raidho X1.6 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@ullogu1 - The Dynaudio Heritage Specials are anything but dark. They’re super open and detailed. They are great speakers. I recommend reading the reviews on them with are consistent with my experience with them.
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I have the Diablo 300 which is similarly dark, a little more neutral, I have a pair of MoFi SourcePoint 10s, the sound is rich and detailed, the top end frequency response of the 10s is a bit hot so the pairing is synergistic in the best sense of the word. My other speakers are B&W 804 D4s, very different speaker but similarly hot on top and similarly synergizes with the 300. Funny aside, as a previous commenter mentioned, this forum is definitely anti-B&W, and yet in my system I've been happiest with the 2 pairs of B&Ws I've owned compared to anything else I've had, and I've had (for example) the Dynaudio Heritage Specials, which I liked but ultimately sold. They paired well with the 300, and would perhaps therefore be a good option for the 120, but they are only 85db sensitive so not particularly easy to drive. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I’ve now owned or demoed Pass Labs class A, Luxman class A and AB, Conrad Johnson, Audio Hungary, Rogue amps at my house. The Gryphon 120, in my limited experience, is the overall best sounding amp I’ve had here. It’s simultaneously the most detailed and dynamic amp I’ve personally experienced when matched with a complimentary speaker. It has a propulsive quality to it that is pretty addicting. Without that complimentary speaker in place, it’s as if the treble energy got turned down by a hidden soundboard master who had too many beers the night before. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
B&W 805D4 less than one year old: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650123068-bowers-amp-wilkins-805d4-speakers/ | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
+100 @soix Looks like the Gryphon 120 owners seems to look for bandaid instead. And the following statement confirms this:
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I'm using Focal Electra1038 speakers with my Diablo 120 and think they match great. My Focal's are known to be bright with the beryllium metal dome tweeter and I found can be bright/fatiguing with solid state amps but with the Diablo 120 sound great. Find them very good for low level listening, very detailed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
You’re not disappointing anyone here, and in fact we’re just trying to help. If you don’t agree with some of the suggestions being made that’s fine. The thing is, the KEFs aren’t dark sounding speakers so it’ll probably be a tough ask to find speakers that are bright enough to counteract what you feel is the amp’s sonic signature. Another way to go might be to try different cables — what speaker cables/interconnects/PCs are you using now? It’s possible that adding something like silver interconnects could inject some of the air/sparkle up top you’re currently missing. Just another idea FWIW, and best of luck in getting where you’re looking to go. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@ullogu1 did you look at Gryphon reviews and look for what speakers they used? They usually have access to many speakers and will likely come up with a good match. I would think that Danish speakers will fare better. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@milpai - I wouldn’t call it “looking for a bandaid.” It’s just about pairing it with the right speaker. Once you do, you understand why Gryphon amps are respected. It’s a fantastic amp. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@soix - I honestly don’t think cables are the answer for the dark character of the amp. From experience, I 100% feel it’s a speaker pairing issue. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
You are not a disappointing person at all. But your words "dark" probably means something different than what I might have thought. This thread asks for speakers for a "dark amplifier". Does it mean that the designer did not want a neutral sound and instead designed a "dark amplifier"? Strange. In any case, I spent about 20 minutes with a Focal Electra bookshelves in 2016 and they had tons of top end. Might be that would be a choice to bring some light to your darkness. I think @arnoldo is indicating the same. I am not sure I would want a dark sounding amplifier in my system. I generally like neutral. Please explain me "dark sounding". Any Youtube video link that might make me understand the difference? I know if would not be hifi sound from Youtube, but might give me a bit of an idea.
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@milpai - Great question. One of the reviews on the Gryphon 120 was done by the amiable “Pursuit of Perfect Systems” English reviewer. He references the dark quality of the treble in the review, below. I feel his review is absolutely spot on, by the way. https://www.pursuitperfectsystem.com/entry-level-gryphon-the-diablo-120-integrated-amplifier-review/ But what exactly is that dark quality mean in my experience? When I connected the amp to my QLN prestige 3 speakers, which are incredibly balanced and relaxed, the treble sounded like it went down an octave. The highs were muted and the treble energy was diminished. The air on the high frequencies was muted and recessed. I was somewhat disappointed because the QLN speakers have been my reference speakers. Due to circumstances, I had a pair of Dynaudio Heritage Speakers in the house that I wasn’t using as frequently. Why? Because I felt they were a little tipped up on the treble compared to the QLN speakers. But when I moved the Dynaudio Heritage into position with the Gryphon 120, the synergy was immediately evident. I will back off from my soapbox now. Just sharing my experience and enthusiasm for the amp when you pair it with a complementary speaker. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@gryphongryph - I switch back and forth every few months between the Gryphon 120 with Dynaudio Heritage Special speakers to the QLN Prestige 3 driven by a Conrad Johnson Classic 120 paired with an LTA Microzotl preamp. Dac is the Merason dac1 mkii and the streamer/server is Innuos Zenith mkiii. I can’t decide which pairing I like better. Both are pretty much end-game for me unless I win the lottery. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@gryphongryph - Based on your handle, is it fair to assume you also have a Gryphon amp? If so, may I ask what your system consists of? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
No, sorry to disappoint you, running Supratek Cabernet pre into a Belles Class A power amp. Used to have QLN Signature speakers a long time ago, I was in a lengthy email conversation with the designer when he started the QLN brand again. Had a good offer on the new Signature model, but chose to go the BBC line of speakers with an other designer I admire a lot, mr Derek Hughes and his Graham Audio LS 5/9. Maybe one day I will have an other QLN, and a nicer person than mr Mats Andersen you will not find, a true gentleman. ps. My old QLN I can still listen too at my brother’s house and they still sound very nice. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@grislybutter - I owe you a system photo. The last few years have been a whirlwind. I promise to get a photo up soon.
And you are right. I did win the lottery! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@gryphongryph - I’ve read good things about those Belles amps. I’ve always been intrigued with Graham speakers. Can you share what you feel the sound signature is of your Graham speakers? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
The Graham speakers are an endgame speaker if you can manage without the deep bass, it does mid bass wonderfully, like hearing the bass player in a jazz recording, it sounds very nice, but the speaker doesn’t go down far below 50 in your room, but off course you can get a subwoofer or two to remedy that. What does it do good, well for me it’s the tone and decay, the voices as you can imagine from a BBC design are just wonderful and while modern design loudspeakers can make a woman voice sound great, the Graham’s can do male voices very well indeed, they have a chest so to speak, the flow of the sound is very nice also, not too fast, something I feel speakers with metal domes sometimes sound, only my opinion off course, but I am very sensitive to especially upper midrange into the tweeter, something that made finding speakers a bit difficult, so being able to listen for hours is very welcoming and something these Graham’s do excellently. They are monitors, so you can expect un amplified instruments to sound very life like, violin and piano or an acoustic guitar just sound sublime, they are not heavy metal speakers, although playing uptempo rock works great and gets your feet tapping, but you can probably find much more satisfying speaker for that. While writing this I have been listening to several rendition of Erbarme Dich, what a treat, several because I stop to write all the time 😝 Just remember that Graham Audio Speakers as all BBC design use thin wall cabinets and you sometimes can hear that in the bass, but it is not something I mind, I look at my speakers more like an instrument and I am truly smitten with them and I would only sell these for a bigger model in the Graham lineup. If you have a nice dealer and can try them at home, that would probably be preferable as this design of speakers don’t give you the big wow straight away, but when you have listen for a while you will come to the conclusion that somehow they just sound right, at least that happen to me. Good luck. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I watched the Pursuit Perfect System and its finding the best match for the B&W 705 Sig was the Gryphon 120. I just received a new pair of 705 S3 Sigs and they seem to be settling in and I'm finding the sound far more balanced. Gotta say though that I would imagine the 705's to be a bit brutal with a less dark amp. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@ullogu1 - Excellent! Glad you watched that Pursuit of Perfect Systems video. His description of the Gryphon is very accurate, based on my personal experience. The voicing of the amp seems to favor speakers with a hot treble. I’m thinking they paired it with their own Gryphon speakers when they designed it. Paired with the Dynaudio Heritage speakers, it’s definitely my favorite amp. Let us know how things settle in with the B&W speakers. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@gryphongryph - Thanks for the reply on the Graham speakers! Although I already have three pairs, I’m super curious about the new Graham LS8/f (I think that is the model). They are floor standing speakers. I think they’ve just come out very recently. Do you have a Graham dealer near you? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
@gryphongryph - Correction. I guess it’s the LS59/f model I was intrigued by. They were actually announced 5 years ago. 😁 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
I lived with the Harbeth SHL5+ for more than a decade and now own the Graham LS5/9. I agree it’s wonderful, only if it’s matched with the right amp. I find Graham to sound best with a robust and dynamic amp with a propulsive quality. The LS5/9 sprung to life when driven by the Naim 282/250DR. When used with the Luxman L-590AXII music sounds lacklustre, flat and pale. The Marten speakers are a much better match with Luxman than Naim. I once considered the Gryphon Diablo 120 and 300 for the Marten but that didn’t happen. I don’t have experience with the Diablo 120 but reading about the dark quality of the treble, I would avoid warm or laid back speakers such as Harbeth or Graham. Nevertheless, the propulsive quality or drive of the Gryphon may suit these BBC speakers, I’m not sure. By the way, on Graham vs Harbeth, I find Graham to be 👍👍. |
. This amp is detailed, dynamic, great soundstage and imaging. I have a phono stage built-in that is fantastic for me. It's a great amp...
