Tool? Hmmm...in any case, a normal good system should play anything within its loudness limits. That's it. Tool, Bernstein, anything...I use a 12wpc SE into 99db efficient speakers...2 powered subs...it works for all music, as it should. |
Hey Vista
For me getting speakers that did everything came down to 1. system matching for mid range and treble, and 2. speakers that could deliver real bass.
Starting in the 1990’s I had worked my way through Mourdant Short, Image, and Monitor Audio speakers from silvers to golds, and my golds were lovely and I thought I had got there. But then I built some rear loaded horns (Dallas II’s) to go with some really nice SETs that I bought on a whim, and bugger, I was hooked. The speed, presence and naturalness of a horn loaded, single driver, no crossover speaker was simply addictive. And I loved it for four years then gradually realised i was listening almost entirely to blues, acoustic, jazz, light classical; but no rock, or metal, or electronica. And this was because music driven by voice, or brass, or piano, or acoustic guitar was beautiful, but music that was driven by bass simply had no drive. The Dallas II’s tapped out at 50Hz. I kept reading and watching and then one day a pair of pre-loved Avantgarde Duos caught my eye and flirted with me for a day or two. What was a guy to do. And they were everything I’d heard, read, dreamed about. 107db efficient, 16ohm, SET friendly. All the speed, immediacy, and ‘being there’ of horns. Plus two beautifully integrated 250 watt subs. And suddenly I had it all. And it was the bass that took me that last step. Deep, quick, tight, tuneful bass that also opened up the mid-range and gave me speakers that whispered with Eva Cassidy, and roared with Tool and Led Zep. That was my 20 year journey. Hope yours is as educational and exciting.
|
@furiouslyadrift +1
I agree with Tekton suggestion. The designer is a drummer himself and so am I. I own the Electrons and they reproduce drums very well. I listen to a lot of Prog Rock. The Tektons are dynamic yet have great detail without biting your ears off. Bass lines are very clean and midrange is very engaging. Kickdrums have great punch. Highly recommended! |
Audioman says, "Modding gives you by far the biggest bang for the buck."
Absolutely agree. |
I'm thinking Tekton, here. Fun, great dollar to capability ratio and they can rock out.
Call them up and enjoy. |
Monitor Audio top shelf speakers are extremely neutral and well built.
To the casual listener they are too laid back, until you spend time with them and they do everything very well. |
Your budget greatly determines how versatile a Loudspeaker is . having sold Audio for years ,and having higher end systems. In most cases the more monies to spend the less restrictions on the quality of the build . cheaper speakers always have minimal quality Xover components ,that one reason you never hear about what is inside .and please remember normally under 30% actually goes into the speakers cost ,the rest overhead and a minimum of 40-50% dealers markup. That is why many speakers are made overseas in their factories such as Zmonitir audio, B&W lesser models, acoustic zen, Kef. in many cases designed in the states or Europe but built and QC controlled by these companies so build is good .for a monitor at least $1500 ,floors and on average $3k and up but there are exceptions to every rule . one way to Greatly improve most speakers under $10k is upgrade the entire Xover and wiring which I did with my Smonitir Audio Studio with matching stands at least a 15%+ improvement .even with the powered Subwoofer thesetoo can be improved upon. Modding gives you by far the biggest bang for the buck. if you want to take the time .if not just buy the best you can . Having said that I know the parts quality in most Xovers and fund it impossible to ignore where the Xover is the heart of the speaker many times drivers are name brand and decent quality ,with Solen capacitors which personally I would use only on Bass if on a tight budget ,many also use cheap sand cast resistors ,50 cents when for $2 you can get Mills it Ohmite Gold 1% tolerance ,same with inductors cheap bobbin type ,or iron core when a %Jantzen Copper open coil ,or wax foil will destroy them , even wiring many times just cheap ofc copper when tor $ 3 a ft youcan get 5-9ss Coppertinned Supra Rondo Wire. That s why buying say a 3-5 year old speaker ,then rebuild the guts for less then $700 and it will destroy many speakers that cost 2x this when new . it is something to ponder if you ,or friends can assist you in this. |
I suggest that you listen, listen, and listen. Keep notes on what you like and what you don't. And why. And don't listen to the price tag - by that, I mean that hyped stuff isn't always the best value - you don't have to be the one who pays for the advertising.
Don't be afraid to audition the high end. You might as well find out what can be done with big bucks, and maybe you can get close enough within your budget. I did that with Magneplanar Tympani !a's of blessed memory, and cheap homemade electronics, in 1973. Think ESL's and Magnepan as well as box speakers.
And if you can't hear a difference, don't pay for it. That goes for source, amp, speakers, and cables. And don't bite when someone says, "Oh, it just needs to be broken in." Suggest that he break it in and show you.
It's a great hobby, but it's easy to pay too much. I've been at it for 50 years, and eventually, I learned to listen, listen, listen before I bought.
Good luck!
|
I appreciate all the comments fellows, I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future. n80, that will be in my cd player soon to give my system the test (with a new cable) for good measure. The quest continues!! |
Speaker design has probably improved more than anything else, with the possible exception of DACs, in the last 5 years. The latest Paradigm offerings, as well as the Sonus Faber Sonnettos, are outstanding. At the top, The Wilson Audio Sabrinas, Yvettes and Alexia 2s are stunning. |
It is interesting that someone mentioned organ music and a subwoofer. I'm mostly a rock guy but I like a number of the more popular symphonies. I have a good CD recording of Saint Saenz organ symphony. When that organ hits the bass notes through my Aerial Acoustic 7Bs (no subwoofer) it shakes the room and the inside of your chest. It is almost uncomfortable even at modest volume. But, they're being driven by 250 watts. I had access to a large Bowers and Wilkins subwoofer but decided I did not need it. |
My speaker of choice is Tannoy, my first pair came in 1971, 12" Monitor Golds. I somehow got away from them, and 8 or 9 years ago I decided it was time for a return. On Ebay UK, I bought a pair of HPD 315 drivers (ca 1975), with crossovers, then constructed a 150 liter pair of enclosures (bass-reflex with two 4" front facing ports). They are massively built, and weigh 192 lbs. each. Custom crossovers completed the project.
These play any type of music I choose to listen to equally well, In a large room. My opinion is that a full range speaker system should be designed to be able to play any music well, perhaps with the exception of very low bass, such as synth music, for that, you'd probably want substantial subwoofers.
Anyway, that's what's worked for me, though I must confess, I have two subwoofers in use as well, to augment that part of the music to couple better in my large room.
I hope you're able to find what will do the job for you. Best of luck, regards,
Dan
|
On my A/V systems I am as well brayeagle, do you have a recommended disc to put my system through the paces? |
You can find speakers at a somewhat "reasonable"price that can sound very good to excellent in classical and jazz, but not necessarily on rock, heavy metal or organ. That's where a good subwoofer comes into play.
IMO, an excellent speaker in the 35hz to 20 kHz range, coupled with a good subwoofer probably can do better than a speaker that attempts to furnish smooth reproduction from top to bottom.. Very few full range speakers can provide the octave-plus bass that can be obtained by an active large-cone subwoofer. (On a decent recording, the sound of those 32' pipes of a cathedral organ can be felt as well as heard.)
Disclaimer: I'm a full range plus subwoofer guy |
@ chayro A year ago I thought that way, having a Kenwood capable of making my concrete floor thump but it lacked "grace", also it was able to be heard over my drums; Since then I picked up an old Sony receiver (made in Japan) capable of 85 watts & begin to enjoy the musical style I grew up with. There are Advent Maestro's down the road for sale but I've read by other consumers that they didn't get the "real" sound until that attached a 150 watt unit, so will my 85 watter be enough to make it sing? My db level currently sits at 55 so I'm not trying to make an impact crater in my room lol, just need speakers to fill the room with real sound. My room has a sweet spot now that I have recliner in, the room is a finished garage ( house built in the 30's ) so there is a lot of space for sound. Also contains my drum set & various living items, no window treatments, two walls facing outward, 4 (2 facing outward ) doors, etc. so it will be a challenge indeed. Thanks @n80 will keep that in mind as I stay on my journey. |
I have nice, older equipment that sounds great to me with everything from prog rock, to jazz rock to classical.
I can tell you what I have but I don't have experience with anything else so I can't help with comparisons.
My speakers are Aerial Acoustics 7B tower speakers. They handle all the types of music I listen to. They have rear facing bass ports so room position is important and it is quite possible to adjust speaker position to suit various types of music better....except that they weigh 130 pounds. I have done this but no longer do as I seem to have found a sweet spot.
I do not see many Aerial Acoustics speakers for sale used. Not sure if they are no longer popular or if people just hold onto them. |
It's not so much what you listen to, as opposed to what qualities you value as a listener. I can listen to anything on my Tivoli radio with a 3" speaker and enjoy it. But if you require the impact of a rock band at loud levels, it's not going to work. Speakers can't be chosen in a vacuum. What good is it to have speakers that can destroy a building if you live in an apartment where you can't turn them up?. So unless you lay out all the parameters and limitations you have regarding space, listening levels, amplification, etc, it's just an academic exercise. And of course, there's always budget. |
Thank you for responding John
Through reading a lot of posts about the above things, I've taken their advice & found that speaker wire does matter, etc. So I'm on my way to doing what I can to improve the experience including an equalizer that is set for room correction only. The bad news? Even with the eq settling everything, it's still only as good as the source material. So the proper cabling between the components is next bringing me closer to my desired goal.. |
Welcome!
As far as listening to ALL kinds of music goes (that's me really, btw), how satisfied you might be in the long run may come down to how far out of your way, so to speak, you're willing to go and how far your willing to take things...that may be more true in the long run as you move forward in your quest in general.
But there are 2 things IMO:
1) The better the overall design of the speaker in ALL aspects, the better it will handle a wide variety of music genres.
2) Handling all music well will also come down to getting the bass right for whatever speakers you're considering in combination with your room.
But, 3 more things in the long run:
1) Getting the overall design of the speaker right at ALL levels can be technically rather challenging and so therefore these speakers at least tend to be more commonly found as you go up the price chain (though not necessarily always!). But, in speaker design world, getting ALL design parameters right enough for ALL music and then for the user to get them to behave right in the right room is perhaps The single, most difficult goal in this hobby. Not that it can't be done, it can, but it takes rather a lot of effort, dedication, trial and error and is not really ever the result of accident. But, all that is more of what might await you on down the road from where you might be currently, so it's not time to panic yet!
2) Among the highs, mids and lows, getting the lows right might consistently prove to be the hardest to get right in this hobby.
3) Bass can come to deal with speaker design, EQ, room placement, room treatments, etc...lots of learning as you go, there.
Hopefully others here can make recommendations on particular speakers for you. I myself wound up making my own open baffle speakers a while back and haven't scoured the market lately, but people like Dahlquist DQ 10's on the used market...or Vandersteen 2CE's - both very good all-around performers.
Regards, John |