The Joseph Audio Perspectives will be a big upgrade across the board and are quite nice looking as well, if that matters. Best of luck.
Speaker Upgrade ... Please Help Me
1st post on Audiogon so be gentle :)
I want to upgrade from my Paradigm 85F speakers. My headend is the Gold Note DS-10 Plus Streamer\Dac\Preamp (with PSU-10 power supply) feeding into a Coda 8 amplifier. I listen mostly to Tidal but have a Marantz ND8006 if I want to listen to CD's. My room isn't great, "L" shaped with the speakers at the corner. It's 9.5" x 24" with 8.5" ceiling (open room beside). One speaker has no wall beside it and the other a window which I put a thick blackout curtain to reduce reflections. There are large rugs in all 3 sections. I have 3" x 3" burlap bags filled with Rockwool Soundproofing insulation in the corners behind the speakers. I listen to lots of male and female vocals (Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, Jason Isbell etc.), Pink Floyd, Rage against the Machine, Tool, Chick Corea, etc. a wide variety for sure.
My budget is $10,000 to $15,000 Canadian which is $8,000 to $13,000 US$. I think the 85F's are a decent speaker and I want to make sure that the upgrade is easily noticeable. Do I need to save more to make a significance jump? What I want is a better speaker in all areas, tighter bass and more prominent mid range. I don't find the trebles harsh on the 85F's but then again my hearing is about 13K max. I have access to a medium amount of speaker selection but in-home demos aren't allowed.
First I listened to Opera Callis Divas, I loved the air between the instruments but I thought the low end was weak. The next was Aurum Cantus Genesis which was way over my budget (head-end was $$$$$ too) but the salesman wanted to give me a point of reference. It sounded amazing but at the same time it didn't draw me in musically, almost too analytical. Tried the Martin Logan ESL-11A and I don't think electrostatics are for me. Paradigm Persona 3F were nice but I guess I expected more. Really liked the Focus Kanta 3 but thought they were a little expensive and really didn't like the looks. The Paradigm 120H I liked too but I have a hard time buying speakers with built-in amps, It just seems like a point of failure and that I wouldn't be using my amp to the fullest. Not sure why the 120H stood out, it seemed I didn't care about the details and just got lost in the music, I also like the idea of ARC to help with the room. Next on the list is Legacy Signature SE's and maybe B&W. All the above were with different rooms and electronics except the Personas and Kanta 3.
So my questions are
1. Having a long narrow room would speakers like the Kanta 3 and Legacy Signature be too large and overpower the room2. Are the speakers I'm looking at be a major upgrade to he 85F's or I should save more $$$3. Speaker suggestions that would work with my front end are welcome but I really would like to listen to them first and lots of brands aren't available here in Edmonton.
Thanks Audiogoners
I want to upgrade from my Paradigm 85F speakers. My headend is the Gold Note DS-10 Plus Streamer\Dac\Preamp (with PSU-10 power supply) feeding into a Coda 8 amplifier. I listen mostly to Tidal but have a Marantz ND8006 if I want to listen to CD's. My room isn't great, "L" shaped with the speakers at the corner. It's 9.5" x 24" with 8.5" ceiling (open room beside). One speaker has no wall beside it and the other a window which I put a thick blackout curtain to reduce reflections. There are large rugs in all 3 sections. I have 3" x 3" burlap bags filled with Rockwool Soundproofing insulation in the corners behind the speakers. I listen to lots of male and female vocals (Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, Jason Isbell etc.), Pink Floyd, Rage against the Machine, Tool, Chick Corea, etc. a wide variety for sure.
My budget is $10,000 to $15,000 Canadian which is $8,000 to $13,000 US$. I think the 85F's are a decent speaker and I want to make sure that the upgrade is easily noticeable. Do I need to save more to make a significance jump? What I want is a better speaker in all areas, tighter bass and more prominent mid range. I don't find the trebles harsh on the 85F's but then again my hearing is about 13K max. I have access to a medium amount of speaker selection but in-home demos aren't allowed.
First I listened to Opera Callis Divas, I loved the air between the instruments but I thought the low end was weak. The next was Aurum Cantus Genesis which was way over my budget (head-end was $$$$$ too) but the salesman wanted to give me a point of reference. It sounded amazing but at the same time it didn't draw me in musically, almost too analytical. Tried the Martin Logan ESL-11A and I don't think electrostatics are for me. Paradigm Persona 3F were nice but I guess I expected more. Really liked the Focus Kanta 3 but thought they were a little expensive and really didn't like the looks. The Paradigm 120H I liked too but I have a hard time buying speakers with built-in amps, It just seems like a point of failure and that I wouldn't be using my amp to the fullest. Not sure why the 120H stood out, it seemed I didn't care about the details and just got lost in the music, I also like the idea of ARC to help with the room. Next on the list is Legacy Signature SE's and maybe B&W. All the above were with different rooms and electronics except the Personas and Kanta 3.
So my questions are
1. Having a long narrow room would speakers like the Kanta 3 and Legacy Signature be too large and overpower the room2. Are the speakers I'm looking at be a major upgrade to he 85F's or I should save more $$$3. Speaker suggestions that would work with my front end are welcome but I really would like to listen to them first and lots of brands aren't available here in Edmonton.
Thanks Audiogoners
23 responses Add your response
If you have any Spendor dealers up in your neck of the woods you should give the Spendor D line a listen! https://www.spendoraudio.com/d-line-loudspeakers/ |
The founder 120 is easier to work with than the 3f for sure and for most of us would sound better. When you shop on ag for used speakers what are you looking for? I saw a pair of legacy Aeris for $12k in a hi gloss wood finish I would have jumped on if I needed speakers. Kant a 3 bass drops like a rock from 80hz so subs gotta be factored. Dali makes some great sounding speakers and their latest line that uses a single tweeter may be the best bang for the buck right now. |
Magneplanar 20.7's. There is no such thing as overdriving a room. It is all about what you can tolerate in the space from a visual perspective. The 20.7s are big head on but they are very narrow and if dampen the wall behind them you can keep them 2 feet from the wall. With the tweeters inboard you can put them right up against a side wall. There are those that think the tweeter in the 20.7 is the best tweeter ever made. I am inclined to agree and I currently use 8 foot Sound Labs ESLs. Relative to any of the dynamic speakers you have mentioned the 20.7s are in a different league. Higher definition, faster transient response, larger more life like imaging. The only significant deficit is below 40 Hz. On the other hand the speakers you mention do not go any lower. Frequency response measurements are taken at one meter. Bass dies off very quickly after that with point source drivers. Finally Magneplanar has a great reputation for customer service. Hope You succeed in finding the right speaker for you. I have made the wrong choice on several occasions. |
Notwithstanding the narrowness of your room, which would preclude me spending that sort of coin on new speakers, you might look at Spendor D9.2, set up 6’ from front wall and at least 2 feet from side wall on window side. Does Tidal streaming merit speakers of this caliber? Looking at the music you play, maybe a pair of Tekton Moabs might be fun and save you a bundle. |
Best thing you can do is buy used on here. If you buy used you can step up to the focal Sopra 2 (these need subs imo unless placed close ((24-36”))to the front wall which can be questionable for sound stage but ok in the right room). They go for about $10,000 USD used. I would add used wilson audio Sabrina’s to your list. They are a great speaker at their used prices of roughly $10,000. New they are a pass for me, just too pricy. There are a bunch of them on here right now. The Sonus Saber Olympica III is very close to the Sopra/Sabrina in performance and go for $7500 used (a few pairs on here too). The nova is the newer model and goes for $10,000 used. The nova and the older model are very close in performance. The Revel 228be is another good speaker that flys under the radar for some reason. They are right in your price range new and “cheap” used at $6500. Like the Sopra I feel these needs subs unless placed somewhat close to the wall for room gain. The 803d3 etc are bright for me. Good for a demo but hard on the ears when played loud for long. I feel the same way about top end Paradigm. 1st chose for me would be the Sabrina then followed equally by the Sopra 2, Revel 228be, and Olympica III. If you are using subs I would move the Revel and Sopra ahead of the Wilsons. Just my opinion. |
If available in Canada, check out GOLDEN EAR TECHNOLOGY. The TRITON REFERENCE or the TRITON ONE . R. People don't talk about them much, which is unfortunate. A truly "full range" pair of speakers at realistic prices. Only come in one finish. If your not familiar with them you might catch reviews in TAS or STEREOPHILE. I think you'll be surprised |
This is interesting. The Paradigm is a brighter speaker but your gear is tailored to temper it so I think that your system is well designed. This means your should probably stick to speakers with a more forward sound profile. Certain brands mentioned above (Spendor, Vandersteen, etc...) are much warmer than the Paradigms. You may find that your system could be a but dark vs. what you are used to with some of these options. I really like the Kantas and the Sopras. I think they are brilliant and would work well for you. I am not sure how much better the Kantas would be but the Sopras are definitely a step up. Other options: Magico A3 Used Magico S1 or S3s Used Vivid Kaya 45 or new if you save ($18K USD) Used YG Carmel IIs Used Wilson Sabrinas or new they are a stretch like Kaya 45 VonSchweikert Endeavour e3 MK II The most musical on this list are the Vivids and the Wilson's in my opinion but lets remember that my opinion is worth what you paid for it. They are worth trying to hunt down though. |
I totally agree with the TRITON REFERENCE suggestion as l have their step brother that l purchased years ago, the Definitive Technology Mythos ST's with built in sub woofers In my case l downsized and also had a difficult small listening room If feed high quality amplification I'm sure they will sound excellent, especially with their built-in sub woofers making them a full range speaker with a small foot print FYI there is a good vid on the Triton Reference at Upscale Audio |
I know all of Audiogon has been on pins and needles wondering what decision was made. You can now all relax and sleep easier :) I found a mint pair of used Sopra 2’s and couldn’t be happier. Way more balanced and a sense of depth that I didn’t have with the 85F’s. Thanks for the recommendation above because I don’t think they would have been on my radar otherwise, |
I know all of Audiogon has been on pins and needles wondering what decision was made. You can now all relax and sleep easier :) I found a mint pair of used Sopra 2’s and couldn’t be happier. Way more balanced and a sense of depth that I didn’t have with the 85F’s.HA! As someone who recommended a different speaker, I’m nothing but THRILLED that you made a great choice. That’s ALL this site is about, and my most sincere CONGRATS on your purchase. ENJOY THE HELL OUT OF THEM MAN!!! |
Nice find on the Sopras and if they work will with the Coda amp and in the space you had to deal with then that's great. :) I was going to make a suggestion on a bit of an outlier - the Acoustic Zen Crescendo II. Somewhat similar to the Sopras (tall-ish full ranger at likely a similar used price). Congrats again. |