That’s so cute. The mouse timidly taunts the rattlesnake. 🤡
Something For The Fuse Guys ...
There are fuses, and then, there are fuses.
I'm evaluating some prototype fuses that I received in the mail three days ago.
Over the past few years, I've used fuses from five different manufacturers. The last three were the Red, Black and Blue fuses from Synergistic Research. Each one incrementally improved the sound of my system. My favorite so far was the SR Blue.
The prototype fuses being evaluated presently raises the SQ beyond all of the others mentioned above. The major improvement to my ears is better tonal accuracy. Instruments and voices are more life-like. The noise is reduced allowing for a more solid 3-D presentation with the musicians more solidly presented on the sound stage. Overall, more information is fleshed out of CDs and LPs.
The manufacturer, the price and the name of the prototype fuses will come later. I don't have the information thus far. My understanding is, if all works out, the release date is to be mid-October.
Stay tuned ...
Frank
I'm evaluating some prototype fuses that I received in the mail three days ago.
Over the past few years, I've used fuses from five different manufacturers. The last three were the Red, Black and Blue fuses from Synergistic Research. Each one incrementally improved the sound of my system. My favorite so far was the SR Blue.
The prototype fuses being evaluated presently raises the SQ beyond all of the others mentioned above. The major improvement to my ears is better tonal accuracy. Instruments and voices are more life-like. The noise is reduced allowing for a more solid 3-D presentation with the musicians more solidly presented on the sound stage. Overall, more information is fleshed out of CDs and LPs.
The manufacturer, the price and the name of the prototype fuses will come later. I don't have the information thus far. My understanding is, if all works out, the release date is to be mid-October.
Stay tuned ...
Frank
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Amp manufacturers have too much to lose by being wrapped around the axle with a snake oil controversy. 🐍 If they are even aware of it which they probably aren’t. More than anyone else, amp designers are from the “good solid engineering principles” side of the street. They don’t need the hassle. The last thing in the world they want to do is get involved with the fancy fuse rumpus, or the power cord rumpus or the wire directionality 🔛 rumpus. They have too much on the line. |
Had a pair of Odyssey amps, in house, for audition. Opened one up(with permission), to look at and test a couple things. Found Hi-Fi Tuning Gold fuses(it’s been a while) in the rails. Never looked at the AC main fuse. He’d just used the amps for demos, at a trade show. Can’t say if he sells his amps, with them installed. It would be interesting, if someone were motivated enough, to contact all manufacturers of audio equipment, just to ACTUALLY ESTABLISH what the, "overwhelming majority" would say. However: I suppose, that would also depend on who, from whatever firm, answered the phone. |
@nonoise .. Ayre are also very firm believers in aftermarket fuses AND better footers under their equipment. I know this personally from numerous discussions with them prior to swapping out the fuse in my ax7e. I have this in both verbal form and emails from them. IMHO if it is good with a major mid to high end USA based manufacturer like Ayre then it is MORE than good enough for me. The ONLY reason I will not be rushing to change from Blue to the new Orange is purely financial as only recently spent $600 on 4 Blue fuses. Now I have mentioned this previously but let’s say there is a market for used fuses I cannot see them fetching much more than 50% retail if that tbh. I am awaiting the clean Green fuse thank you...... |
Also, as I’ve oft opined, even if you’re a real cheapskate or hard-core non-believer, you can get that 5% boost by simply flipping the stock fuse you’re currently using around. 🔜 There is a risk, obviously, that you may experience a 5% drop in SQ instead. 🤡 As Bob Dylan says at the end of all his albums, good luck everybody! |
This has been asked on other threads and some manufacturers were mentioned on their using aftermarket fuses. One that comes to mind is Wyred4Sound. It wasn't a standard thing for them to do but when I inquired about them doing it, they said they were fine doing it as they believed it stretched the improvement about 5% or so. However, these threads all boil down to tawdry entertainment seeing as how they've been hashed to death here. If anyone has any doubts as to the efficacy of fuses, they need not spend a lot of money. It's been pointed out that simply replacing a cheap, bog standard fuse with an aftermarket fuse will change the sound. For a small investment, just swap one out and hear it for yourself. Until then, tawdry it is. If you haven't tried it, you don't have a leg to stand on. All the best, Nonoise |
pragmasi ... Thanks for your interesting response To answer your question ... I know of no manufacturer that uses boutique fuses in their finished products. There's a price point to this. It is no secret that a dealer pays 50% to 60% of the end retail price of the high-end electronics sitting on his/her shelf. If a unit cost the factory $2500 to build, the dealer gets it for $5000. Then the consumer pays $10,000 ... less anything that is negotiated off of the full retail price. Let's say, just for discussion, that the manufacturer pays for a fuse at "dealer cost." The end product, once it hits the dealer's shelf, would be four times the cost of what the factory paid for the fuse. So, a fuse that retails for $160, would cost the factory approximately $80.00. That would be a $320.00 increase in the price of the final product to the end consumer. Extrapolate it out for every device used in the manufacturing of any product. In this case high-end audio. There are companies that use the very best and expensive parts attainable ... and the consumer pays through the nose for those products. There's a reason we have speakers that cost $250,000 per pair, and amplifiers that cost $150,000. I don't even want to get into turntables. If every manufacturer were to use the most expensive parts available, then people with modest incomes would never be able to afford to enter the hobby. For me ... I'll stick with my ARC gear and upgrade fuses as they come available. Frank |
Audio manufacturers certainly have heard about "Boutique" fuses...just ask one of them (and stand back...some of these designers get pretty testy about this subject)...pragmasi is exactly right in his sober and reality based comments, and it's easy to see that the overwhelming majority of manufacturers clearly don't care about Magic Fuses, and clearly know full well that the fancy fuse market is rife with illogical hyperbole designed to appeal to those who desperately need to be regarded as Golden Eared. Marketing something that costs peanuts to make that sells for 150 bucks is a potential goldmine...if you can fool enough of the insecure faithful to buy in. |
I'll try and answer your questions as well as I can. I design and build amplifiers, and although I shouldn't admit this given my previous sermon on health and safety - I have tested designs with no fuse at all during the early prototyping stages. I have a two stage approach with testing a design, the first uses lab equipment to ensure the design performs as designed and is stable in all likely scenarios. The second is extensive listening tests (I think I'm well over 200 hours on my latest design that hasn't even made itself into a proper chassis yet). My engineering knowledge tells me that fuses will play no discernible part in the sound of the system and my experience bears that out. I guess an analogy is that when I play pool I never feel the need to move the beer chiller further away from the table in case it's gravity affects the balls' trajectory. If someone told me I ought to then I'd not be pressured into doing it and if they told me that they'd done it and it improved their game then I'd just move to another table and try to ignore them. |
pragmasi ...
Agreed, pragmasi ... but what prompted me to ask the question was this statement you made:
What evidence do you have, or what experiments have you conducted, that would lead you to the conclusion that there won't be any improvement in audio performance if you haven't tried the more expensive after-market fuses? This would include fuses from HiFi Tuning, Beeswax fuses and/or Synergistic Research fuses? With the exception of the Beeswax fuse, I have used all of the above fuses in my system over the past few years. Every one of them has been a substantial improvement in sound quality. This includes four different incarnations of SR fuses ... The Blacks, the Reds, the Blues and now, the Orange fuses. Going from stock fuses normally supplied by the various manufacturers to the new SR Orange fuses would make a profound improvement in performance in my opinion. And ... that opinion is not based upon any scientific acumen I may possess, as I possess very little knowledge in that area. All of my opinions have been based upon actual experience with said products. Looking forward to your response. Frank |
"I don’t wan’t to spoil anyone’s fun and if they have the money and want to give it a go and make their own decision that’s great, just select the right ratings and take a few sensible precautions." Excellent perspective and doesn’t smack of the the preconceived notion, that everyone else is so inept as to electrocute themselves, or burn their house down. |
Just curious, pragmasi ... have you tried any of the after-market fuses in your system?I've used many different fuses in many different designs but not the ones referenced here, I would remember if I'd spent $120 on a fuse. I don't wan't to spoil anyone's fun and if they have the money and want to give it a go and make their own decision that's great, just select the right ratings and take a few sensible precautions. |
pragmasi ....
Just curious, pragmasi ... have you tried any of the after-market fuses in your system? Frank |
I was going to stay out of this but some of these posts are irresponsible... has anyone ever burned his house down because of a faulty fuse? Has any amplifier every blown up 💥 because of a faulty fuse? Has a house ever burned down 🔥 or amp blown up because someone bypassed a fuse?Yes, yes (depends what you mean by 'blown up', but bang, smoke and fire are all possible) and yes... incorrectly rated or bypassed fuses are a fire hazard. There is a possibility that any component in your amplifier could fail at some time - whether that component fails open (safe) or closed (short circuit) is down to the component and the particular failure mode. In the event of shorted power rails the fuse will blow to both protect the non-faulty elements in the circuit and ensure that the current is stopped. If a 100W amplifier fails short then that 100W energy needs to go somewhere and it creates heat, the traces in a circuit board or a wire may not be able to dissipate the heat effectively and that is when you are at risk of starting a fire. The fuses are there to prevent damage and injury, if you bypass them or replace them with incorrectly rated fuses you are increasing the risk of both. It's worth noting that amplifiers often use slow blow fuses which will tolerate the current surge whilst the reservoir capacitors charge. This means that if you replace a 1A slow blow with a 1A fast fuse it may well blow during the inrush. If you then decide to go with a higher current rated fast fuse that will tolerate the inrush it may not blow under fault conditions. There's no reason not to experiment with fuse types (other than you shouldn't expect the audio performance to change at all) just remember that you're experimenting with a device that is there to protect you and your belongings. Is there anyone left on the planet that doesn't know to unplug their equipment before working on it? How many of us learned not to stick our fingers into an unused wall outlet by the age of two? Unplugging is the first step... reservoir caps will remain charged for some time depending on the size of the bleeder resistors and are able to dump their load almost instantly. You can weld a screwdriver to the terminals if you use one to short them, I've done it (unintentionally). I've no problem with people taking risks themselves (we've all done it) but we shouldn't advise others to do the same without highlighting the risks. |
georgehifi ... If you were to become a more astute observer, and stow your animosity for a time, you would know that I have started threads on a multitude of products. Did you read my threads on Audio Research products? How about Herbie’s products, or Perfect Path Technologies products? Have you taken advantage of any of the multitude of music recommendations I’ve offered on this site over the years, George? If you were to reverse your telescope, George, you wouldn’t have such a myopic, negative view of the world and your fellow man. Life is good, George. People, in general, are nice, George. Enjoy a sunset, George. Have a good glass of wine, George. Hug your wife, George. Turn your talisman over, George. You can make the decision to have a positive mental attitude in an instant, George, just by turning over the aforementioned talisman from the negative side to the positive side. Once you make that simple decision, you’ll have a much more fruitful and enjoyable life. I sincerely hope to see you shining brightly with a much more positive light in the future, George ... Take care ... Frank |
The audio hobby is a fun hobby, remember?Not when it’s dangerous with what your telling the non technical to do, and your are shilling for SR many have said it. Those here just need to look at your history with SR and the amount of threads and posts you put up for them, then they’ll see what your about. |
georgehifi ... Uhh, George ... Most audio equipment has a fuse holder on the outside rear of the unit. It is a simple operation to release the holder, remove the old fuse, install the new fuse, then replace the holder. It certainly doesn't require an EE degree to accomplish the feat. The only talent it takes is for the user to remember ... "leftie/loosie ... righty/tightie." By the way, why so much animosity in your posts, George? The audio hobby is a fun hobby, remember? Take care ... Frank |
You and your "shiller" need to take a long look at yourselves and look at your own souls, don’t worry about mine it’s clear. Pushing the non technical members here, some that can’t even change a tap washer, to open their their equipment up and go inside start playing around with mains fuses that could injure them or worse. All because your saying they are going to find the "Holly Grail" of audio if they change their perfectly good 20c mains fuses and replace them with these $150 voodoo ones. More likely they will find the Holly Ghost instead. There’s a reason they say this on the back of audio equipment, and it’s not for a joke mate. https://ibb.co/TW8rbrJ |
georgehifi ... “The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” ___ Nikola Tesla “If your hate could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world.” ___ Nikola Tesla Start doing some serious soul-searching, George. You'll be a better man for it. With love ... Frank |
You have been told by so many known techs here with electronic knowledge that’s beyond your pay grade, that your telling the non technical members here to do something dangerous with these mains fuses, it's only time before someone gets hurt. Plus your much more than just a SR fuse junkie as well, as you push anything else voodoo SR makes, it’s funny that you hardly mention other brands in the same glowing "light" as the SR products you hammer home here on Audiogon.? It’s all there in your history, if members want to search. The only one with a "darkened soul" is you. |
uberwaltz ... +1 I’ve been on this planet much longer than most. Grew up as a street kid and got knocked around a lot. Had my first full-time job when I was twelve. These experiences, plus fifty years in a commissioned sales career, gave me the ability to read the intentions of other people. So, I’ve had a lot of time to make certain observations about my fellow humankind. One thing I’ve learned over the years is that a person who constantly treats others shabbily, is abusive toward others, and/or relishes being a bully, really doesn’t feel good about themselves. They have a darkened soul. I consider it a form of insanity. Why? Because sane people treat others in the way they would like to be treated themselves. It has also been my observation that there is a cure for that malady. An instant cure if one is humble enough to seek it. :-) Take care ... Frank |
^^^ Georgie-Porgie sez ...
I'll just leave these posts alone with no comment for others to digest. Frank |
Hi Frank, I’m glad to hear that the new Orange fuse sounds better than a broken in Blue fuse immediately. The Blue fuse sounded better than a broken in Black fuse immediately. The Black fuse sounded like drek from hours 15 to 72 . The duplex change from Black to Blue was not as nice. The Blue sounded bright and hard compared to the Black. It took almost a week until it broke in and sounded better than the Black in all respects. The fuse improvement was more significant so the Orange fuse is the way to go.Is this for real or are you taking the piss? Or is Stop-it’s, another new SR product you insert in your ear to get you sane again from the voodoo fuses insemination infection? And no I couldn’t be bothered to see if Stop-it’s is actually some to purchase to make audio better. oregonpapa OPAnd give the SR Orange fuses voodoo a rest, you have your other thread closed, you now want this done too? |
fleschler ... The uncured "Stop It" receptacle plugs sounded really bad. Lost most of the mid-bass and some of the lower bass. They finally came around at about three weeks. The cured ones that you'll be receiving will make a nice improvement to your system right off the bat. If you can, order enough to insert into every unused outlet in the entire house. The Orange fuses will give those Legacy Focus' of yours a new level of bass. Also, more realistic sound. Wait until you hear the violin and piano. By the way, my invitation is still open to you at any time. I'd love for you to hear what the Signature IIIs are doing now. Legacy speakers, at least the ones I'm familiar with, perform way beyond their price point. I think the Signature IIIs are becoming somewhat of a cult item. Come on up ... Frank |
Hi Frank, I'm glad to hear that the new Orange fuse sounds better than a broken in Blue fuse immediately. The Blue fuse sounded better than a broken in Black fuse immediately. The Black fuse sounded like drek from hours 15 to 72 and I hated keeping my big tube amps on for 3 days to get good sound. I will probably try the new relatively inexpensive tweak which has such a positive sound improvement with my amps (so easy on mine). The duplex change from Black to Blue was not as nice. The Blue sounded bright and hard compared to the Black. It took almost a week until it broke in and sounded better than the Black in all respects. The fuse improvement was more significant so the Orange fuse is the way to go. Robert didn't like the Stop-its initially and now we know why, they were uncured. I think I'll try Stop-its too. |
This sort of problem is so very real, that i convinced a few audio show runners that before their given show plays out in the given hotel complex... ..that they needed to have an electrician come around and give a little twist and check on every single associated in room and out of room AC power line tie down (screw down) points in all the associated AC power boxes. and to not neglect the ground lines, either. And the outcome is an obvious better sound quality for everyone in the display rooms. As most hotels will never have their AC panels checked or serviced, unless there is a severe problem. As AC operation is critical for them, and AC power quality ---means nothing. But the audio folks want quality as well, and that requires making sure the lines have no issues. |
oregonpapa OP geoffkait ...
I pasted my refrigerator plug with TC. Same with the TV. And any unused outlets have a "Stop It" inserted into it. >>>>All appliances, computers, floor lamps, air purifiers, etc. in the house should get the treatment. All unused outlets in the house should get the treatment. |
geoffkait ...
I pasted my refrigerator plug with TC. Same with the TV. And any unused outlets have a "Stop It" inserted into it. wolf_garcia ... Very interesting wolfie, considering that PPT is located in New Hampshire. Hey, Putz, if you're going to be slinging BS in these forums, the very least you should do would be to get your story straight. Frank |
Send in the clowns! 🤡 Lawyer joke: What do you call a lawyer who’s up to his neck in concrete? Not enough concrete. 🤗 The only way the refrigerator would not be “part of the audio signal” is if the audio system was on a dedicated circuit. This explains why cleaning or using contact enhancer on the refrigerator power plug is audible. Duh! |
An audio geek lawyer friend in The Great North told me Vermont’s Attorney General’s Consumer Protection unit will likely be investigating "The Gate" soon (and other "Path" stuff)...that should be interesting...get ’em while you can! And hat’s off to Pragmasi for injecting some logic into this thread...well done! |
lalitk ... The post was in response to this:
I haven’t tried unplugging the refrigerator or the TV. Way too many dead brain cells that have reduced my short-term memory. I’d get up in the morning only to find that the freezer compartment has melted all over the floor. That would be right before I called the TV repairman to fix the TV because it won’t fire up. :-) On another note, I do have a couple of audiophile friends who unplug their appliances for all serious listening sessions. They are yet to purchase "The Gate." Frank |
“Has anyone tried unplugging all of the household appliances during a listening session ... TV, dimmer switches, and especially the refrigerator?” Frank, I hope you’re not suggesting another level of sonic bliss by turning off TV, dimmer switches and refrigerator. If you do, you got some serious fundamental issues with your system....cause after spending $9200 plus in magic pads, SR fuses, and The Gate, your system should be immune to any possible interfere from TV, dimmer switches and refrigerator. |
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