So done with audiophile fuses

mitch2 - I did not make sure the sound levels were exactly the same in before and after listening. Measurements and ears could sense improvement.

nwres158 posts05-20-2021 2:56pmAnother observation on the unwrapped SR fuse. From the image, it looks as if they applied a graphene paste to the fuse before they wrapped it in their foil backed SR sticker. Perhaps these two additions to the stock fuse is part of their proprietary process that may have some added benefit.

A couple observations with your statement.
Graphene is an excellent conductor. A foil decal is also a conductor. It would makes sense that either and/or both of these adjuncts could bypass the fuse filament creating a higher flow of current through the entire fuse assembly, leading the the filament to fail at it's rated amperage.

If this is indeed what is happening, I doubt a whole lot of critical engineering went into this device by the "Lead Designer".

Another observation on the unwrapped SR fuse. From the image, it looks as if they applied a graphene paste to the fuse before they wrapped it in their foil backed SR sticker. Perhaps these two additions to the stock fuse is part of their proprietary process that may have some added benefit.

Curious, did you equalize volume levels using a SPL before your listening tests?

Results of my fuse replacements by solid copper wire. I DO NOT RECOMEND THIS FIRE HAZZARD, but here's my test results: Listening tests performed with subs turned off, music; Dark side of the Moon, Boiling Point and Famous Blue Raincoat. With all program material, the sound was much more detailed and had better clarity. Each album had its own distinct improvements. DSM-Tighter bass and bells seem to jump out at you. BP-Holy cow, so much detail and clarity, I was stunned. FBR-Vocals had noticeably more detail and clarity. I could understand all of the lyrics better (I don't have the lyrics memorized). Amplifier; 120 W/channel rated by manufacture, 8 ohm, 1% Dale load resistors in oil bath. Tested with standard fuses before modification: Summary, 153 Watts/channel rms at clipping, both channels driven, continuous averaged 20Hz. and 20kHz., duration at each frequency; 10 seconds. After modification: Same frequencies and duration used, 172 Watts/channel rms at clipping. Voltage burst test, pulse duration 400 ms, test frequency 1000Hz.: 39.59 Vrms (196 Watts). I did not do the burst test before modification, so I don't have that data. I did not do any distortion tests as I sold my HP distortion analyzer to a friend before I moved. Sure wish I hadn't, but maybe I can borrow it? You know my conclusion… Of course, this does not validate discussion topic, but clearly resistance in series has a detriment to the sound and output current.

edgewound, there are no markings on the end caps.

That looks like one from Guangdong Sinobile Energy Technology Co.,Ltd

What is stamped on the end cap?

Out of curiosity I peeled the label away on my blown SR orange fuse.  It looks like a ceramic fuse with modifications was used.  I don't know what brand it is and am not bashing SR.  Others may know what it is.  Pictures on my virtual system.

sugabooger"You continue to amaze, astonish, and sadden me with your willingness to argue about a critical safety issue with which you have no knowledge."

You assume, surmise, and speculate on matters of which you have little to know direct understanding, knowledge or experience  and this is a mtter in which I happen to be especially well informed.

"While in the US, an NRTL test is not technically required"

Right that is what I said so you can spare us the pronouncements, arguments, and what some Americans would call "bleeting."

"Just stop ... don't start typing a reply unless you are very familiar with this. This is a safety issue."


I have not stated, suggested, or implied anything unsafe, dangerous, or hazardous I have only corrected you're clear, obvious, extreme errors in statements which you present as unassailable, immutable, unimpeachable facts. 

I will not stop replying to those posts I deem worthy of a direct, correctional, factual response. 

My amplifier doesn't have a fuse anywhere

You continue to amaze, astonish, and sadden me with your willingness to argue about a critical safety issue with which you have no knowledge. While in the US, an NRTL test is not technically required, in much of the world, an equivalent is required, or self certification that states you have met the technical requirements of the related standards. In the UL, whether you have UL or not, you are LEGALLY required to meet NEC codes, local laws, etc.  (which may require NRTL testing to plug it in) and DO require fusing as applicable to protect things like line cords which your breaker box is not responsible.


Just stop ... don't start typing a reply unless you are very familiar with this.  This is a safety issue.

sugabooger"safety requirements for most equipment includes a fuse or equivalent unless there in innate current limiting. We are talking things like UL"

That is not even slightly, vaguely, or remotely how it works you will not find UL listings on the typical audio component unless it is made by one of the giant major manufacturers such as Sony, Panasonic, or Phillips.

I knew somebody would come up with a justification for oversized power cords.😎

Jhills, safety requirements for most equipment includes a fuse or equivalent unless there in innate current limiting. We are talking things like UL. That fuse is to protect the cord from overheating. The equipment if safety approved or at least designed properly is already in a fire resistant enclosure where needed.

If the component develops an internal short and no fuse is present to melt and break the circuit, the short can connect to the wall outlet through the power cord.

@sugabooger The job of a safety fuse in a component is to protect the cord that is connected to that unit ???

The current is flowing from the input end of the fuse to the output end of the fuse. When there is a problem or a short in the component it causes an amperage surge that blows the fuse. When the fuse blows it stops the current at that point, hopefully preventing further damage to the component. Unless the home circuit breaker is tripped or the cord is unplugged there is still power to and through the cord, it just has no place to go, so current into the component is stopped. Stick in another fuse and unless you’ve solved the problem, it too will blow....Jim

The job of a safety fuse in a component is to protect the cord that is connected to that unit in case there is a serious short in the unit.  Additional fuses may be added to protect the component itself.  Where safety items are being discussed, its is dangerous, ill advised, unwise to comment where you lack knowledge.

Fine...listen in the street. No worries.

edgewound"a fuses job is to protect from a fire in your home or listening space"

This is inaccurate, wrong, and false it is to protect the component and possibly a device connected to the component it is not to protect the listening room that is silly and mistaken.

...and a fuses job is to protect from a fire in your home or listening space. Electrical fires are the worst.

jhills

It is a mis conception that a faulty component that takes damage when its fuse does not blow, will instantly trip a 15A or 20A circuit breaker before enough damage is done to start a fire in the component. In most cases it will not. If your faulty component doesn't blow a 10A fuse (where there should have been a 3A or 5A fuse) before causing damage or fire, don't expect it to trip a 20A circuit breaker.

Agreed 100 percent. A circuit breaker's job is to protect the wire in the wall. Nothing else.

@molingus My point being, the danger of fire is in or at the component itself not wether or not it causes enough overload at the outlet or anyplace in the circuit to trip the breaker before causing a fire in the wall.

I agree, at any rate, if your component is blowing fuses, something is wrong and it needs to be fixed., not band aided with a bigger fuse or breaker.

I also agree that components are designed and built (with few exceptions) with a power supply thats job is to make that component operate and sound as intended, using the power supplied by any particular country’s energy suppliers without having to add thousands of dollars of fancy outlets, cables and magic fuses.

If I paid $20K for an amp and it didn't sound incredible with the cable/cord and fuses it came with, I'd send the sucker back and get something else.....Jim

@molingus Ahem. In what 3rd world country do you all live where shorting a fuse in an audio amp starts your hovel on fire? Move into the modern world, where our buildings have code, and our breaker boxes have, uhhh, breakers installed.

It is a mis conception that a faulty component that takes damage when its fuse does not blow, will instantly trip a 15A or 20A circuit breaker before enough damage is done to start a fire in the component. In most cases it will not. If your faulty component doesn't blow a 10A fuse (where there should have been a 3A or 5A fuse) before causing damage or fire, don't expect it to trip a 20A circuit breaker.......Jim

molingus

... here's some constructive criticism, based on the assumption that, in order to sound remotely palatable, audiophile grade amps need AC mains to supply perfect platonic ideal archetypical sine waves, like god's flatulence ...

I have no idea what you are talking about and, I suspect, neither do you. Such nonsense.

Do you see Pass, Curl, Cary, Mcintosh, or any of THOSE folks coming out of NASA, or NEC, or the FDA, or Brain or Heart surgeon Professorships? WTF.

******************************************

NEC? FDA?  ... You should have stopped at NASA, though they have had their fare share of failures ver the years.

There is some complexity to modern stereos especially when you consider what is buried inside a sigma-delta DAC, or the latest Class-D, or the semiconductors powering the system, or the capacitors. However, most are just throwing together building blocks, but it took 100 years for people at THX to come up with some new architectural stuff to reduce SNR/THD.

The top speaker/driver companies are no dummies either. There is a lot of good science and engineering there too.

Most of what NASA does is applied. The real research goes on in places like JPL, and university labs.

@molingus

Your comment, priceless

...not to mention the fancy time-aligned cable that is terminated with a substandard conductive Rhodium plated solid brass...also an inferior conductor...clamped on to another solid connector into a passive crossover through a network of capacitors, inductors, resistors, that might soldered...or spade lug... to a solid connector on each transducer, soldered to various degrees of copper, copper clad aluminum, or aluminum voice coil windings.

Talk about electron confusion. How on earth do they know what frequency they are a part of, when Ohm’s Law states that electricity follows the path of least resistance?

Reddy Kilowatt is one smart dude.

Okay, here's some constructive criticism, based on the assumption that, in order to sound remotely palatable, audiophile grade amps need AC mains to supply perfect platonic ideal archetypical sine waves, like god's flatulence. Of course, they don't, and neither do the designs engineers learn in their first year of school, but still, let's assume. So you've spent all that money on power cords, and line conditioners, and power supplies, and magic orange wall outlets, and you've paid your neighbors to not use their air conditioner just long enough so you can finally, for once, enjoy the overture to Reinze like they could when it was written 150 years ago. Every last drop of that perfect current has to travel across the impure little filament of the fuse before it can be DC rectified by your device. You do know that your amp doesn't even want your alternating sine wave, right? It's got a built-in plan to convert that swill to DC, first and foremost, right? But I digress.
What are you going to do? After all that, a fuse made of any less than 17.6% pure unobtanium will ruin all your plans, waste all that money, and you'll probably die alone.
Start to demand filtered power supplies with the fuse *before* the filter. That way, it shouldn't matter if you used braided silver, or ordinary nickel, or one of those turds someone, for some reason, seems to be advocating. 

molingus14 posts05-18-2021 12:33am

Will the manufacturer gladly replace the 50 cent fuse sold for $hundred$

Not if they’re smart, they won’t. They should have an official policy of not recommending anything other than the manufacturer’s rated part, which is always clearly marked on the device. Even if I was selling 50 cent fuses for 75 cents, I’d have literature clearly stating that using the wrong value voids any warranty. Maybe I’d send you a coupon, two fuses for only $1.65, and better looking, I mean, better luck next time, kid.

I agree. The problem arises when the seller/"manufacturer"(actually repackaged in a fancy box with graphics) recommends going up in value to "get an improved performance/sound". Not a big deal...right?

HA!

Will the manufacturer gladly replace the 50 cent fuse sold for $hundred$

Not if they're smart, they won't. They should have an official policy of not recommending anything other than the manufacturer's rated part, which is always clearly marked on the device. Even if I was selling 50 cent fuses for 75 cents, I'd have literature clearly stating that using the wrong value voids any warranty. Maybe I'd send you a  coupon, two fuses for only $1.65, and better looking, I mean, better luck next time, kid.

What kind of disclaimer comes with the "audiophile" fuse supplier denying any subsequent damage caused by installing a fuse value that is higher than recommended by the audio component manufacturer. Will the manufacturer gladly replace the 50 cent fuse sold for $hundred$ that blew up a $100,000 Boulder amplifier? Yeah....

Did anyone contact the aftermarket Fuse manufacturer and inform of faulty product?

Happy Listening!

And, ummm, if your amp blows a fuse more than once, it's trying to tell you it doesn't feel so good inside. The engineers who designed it did lots of math to determine how much current the thing should draw, and how much is too much, then they put a fuse in there to burn up before your tubes, transistors, and worst of all, your transformers burn. For cripes sake, DO NOT short it out, or put anything else but what the engineers calculated! TAKE IT TO THE AMP DOCTOR!!! Putting a higher amperage fuse is saying, "Something's wrong with this machine, it's using more power than it can safely handle. Maybe if I feed it even MORE power, I'll never need to have it serviced," and you might end up being correct. And the engineers who built it will be sad, and the salesperson you buy it's replacement from will be stoked. And that's really what this game is about, right? Happy sales people.

Ahem. In what 3rd world country do you all live where shorting a fuse in an audio amp starts your hovel on fire? Move into the modern world, where our buildings have code, and our breaker boxes have, uhhh, breakers installed.
As for your insanely expensive amp, yeah, that's going to release its magic smoke, and be worthless, but you'll still have a shanty in which to keep it.

It reminds me of why the French have a slang expression for shoes: Ecrase-merde. Quite literally: Turd Crushers.... go figure... or better: don‘t.

Like I should have said said, "To each his own TURD"

All turds are not created equal. Crappy outlook!

No bare footin' in the amp area!

Wash hands thoroughly after TURD swap.. :-)

Regards

Have to agree with goose on this.  First tried HiFi Tuning Gold on preamp, monoblocks, speakers mid, highs and cd player. Largest impact on Carver monoblocks where general complaint online is no highs and now heard highs. Speakers like wiping windows but nice improvement, preamp also clearer. No impact on Sony ES cd player, but kept fuse.  Then when SR Red deal came, changed monoblocks, cleaner midrange. And tried on home theater system, cleaner on amp. Very large impact detail and dynamics with old Onkyo Dolby ProLogic surround processor. But edgy, took awhile to settle down. Well, saw SR Black deal and tried with B&W home theater speakers and Sony Cd player. B&W blacks still there, and nice detail improvement. BUT, twice black fuse failed due to inrush on Cd player upon turn on.  (SR helpful, dealer not) Learned from blogs with Reds (where I had no problem) and now with Blacks that SR users tend to use higher values as fuse may blow at replacement value. Sony tech people warned against doing this as next level 25% higher than recommended.  So stopped buying any more SR fuses. HiFi tuning fuse in there still for cd player.

Yes, odd that audiophile fuse should work, but often comments ignore material science whether in cables or similarly in a fuse. (Major speaker changes over the years are materials, usually stiffness.) Impurities, grain size, configuration, dielectric all impact cables. Ohno casting with one crystal (amazing), less oxygen has improved cables. Shielding as well since EM everywhere.  Audio signal is not one frequency but very complicated continuously varying frequencies, so testing distortion at one frequency means little. Agree best to do double blind testing, but my surround processor was really obvious change. Why is SR fuse failing, probably because melt characteristics with different material, especially new graphene does not match stock fuse. If users want to risk that, up to them. Do believe likely will get improved sound, but for me, was too risky. Do think while expensive for small wire, audiophile fuses are potentially one of the best tweaks, just variable depending on location. But have not changed anymore after the SR Black failures.

PS Do not want to say SR blacks cannot handle any surges. Have screwed up and had horrible surges go to B&W and blacks still holding. But for some reason did not like the Sony cd player on main system. 

@ antigrunge2  Very Good! :-) :-) :-)

A sparky dried turd does have a certain ‘je ne sais quoi’, doesn’t it? Stinking failure comes to mind (unless the latter were already blown after all this tosh...)

Wow! Really, oldhvymec, a peanut or dried TURD in place of a recommended, properly rated fuse is OK if it gets you Better sound. I just went back through all my old notes, the current UBC, NEC and NFPA 70 and nowhere does it say or imply that it is permissible to use a peanut, dried TURD or Anything Else in place of a required fuse or breaker of specific value in a circuit or device designed for such......Jim 

It's your money, spend as you wish, all I know in 3o years none of my gear as blown a fuse with using the fuse what came with it. So why these expensive fuses blows give me concern. I can say that on the DQ 10's then had a fuse, we took the fuse out and just put a wad of copper wire in place of the fuse and the speaker sounded better, but we know better than to leave it there it was a safety hazard. Also, a post should not turn into an attack all the time. Seems this is the Era we been living in If you like $50.00-$200.00 fuses fine its OK for others who tried them and found them lacking and not worth the cost or could not hear much difference if any that is OK too, each to his own. I heard great system 30 years ago with no special power cords, interconnects, or speaker wires, good marketing made this become needed, and yes I hear cables improve the system but when they start asking as much as a car or piece a gear I find pause in that we are talking wire here copper, silver or silver-coated copper. 

Using a different, higher value fuse to get better performance from an amplifier is stupid. You might burn your house down...from what we have learned through electrical engineering.

Is that understandable to you? It’s not that hard to figure out if you’re actually paying attention.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

SO IF a fuse or a peanut, or a dried TURD, gave an amp better performance, that is NOT OK?

WHY?

Why on earth is it not OK to make an amp sound better with a DRIED TURD?

Add anything in the world in the stupid fuse slot it makes no difference to ME.. I just want to know if it works better.

What does "WORK BETTER" actually mean to me?

It sounds better. NOT I think it sounds better, it sounds better.

Can an improved PC and protection circuit be improved from factory?
HECK yes it can.. What do you think the cream of the CROP design power amps?

Do you see Pass, Curl, Cary, Mcintosh, or any of THOSE folks coming out of NASA, or NEC, or the FDA, or Brain or Heart surgeon Professorships? WTF.

Do you really think stereo STUFF is all that complicated? I’m just an ol mechanic.. This $hit is pretty simple to figure out AND make sound better. Much less build it. I can honestly say an ol flathead ford is more complicated in terms of engineering than any amp that was EVER made...

NOW think about a new dielectric power plant (BART). The injector system has 100 times the sophistication of the most talked about stereo SYSTEM on the planet. The whole dog gone stereo. From the wall plug until it hits your ears and comes out the other side (FOR SOME).

Some folks are funny.. I crack myself up all the time.

BUT when I really want a chuckle, I wait for the Eeyore crowd to grow a pair and start jaw jackin’.

Like I’ve said, sure wish I could have worked with some of you folks, sure would have been a hoot.. Would have learned to pay attention if nothing else. I’d blow something up to get a fools attention.. What ever it took to get the DUMMIES attention..

M80s in the Port-A-Lue is a GREAT teaching aid for a heard headed TALKER, NOT WORKER.

Try it, if you don’t like it SEND IT BACK and get every mumpin' dime back and you have braggin' rights to say they are JUNK.

The rest of the Eeyore crowd, who cares what they say?

They have NEVER used an aftermarket fuse.

I know, ask a shoe salesman if he thinks your HEART sound correct. Here give it a listen..

I LISTEN to those who have used them.. NOT TALKED about them..

THEN a buddy GAVE me a 8-10 of blues, blacks and orange SRs

I used ACME golds, SR were an improvement..
So was the 6.00 ACME.. A breaker whipped them both.. in power amps..

Regards

Not that I use, would use or advocate the use of expensive boutique fuses, under the pretense of getting superior sound - I do not; but here's the deal: Never should a dealer or a fuse manufacture recommend using a higher rated fuse than recommended by the equipment's manufacturer. If there is a consistent problem with a particular brand of fuse/fuses blowing under normal circumstances, that fuse manufacturer probably should re-evaluate the amp ratings of their fuses.
For the protection of your equipment and prevention of your own liability, one should always use properly rated fuses ...Jim

The claim of a $50 fuse or a fuse costing thousands of dollars is unreasonable and arguments of ability to hear an improvement are not credible because those who make them can out-debate you even if you have a PhD in electrical engineering or a related subject. You won't get the whole truth about listening tests whether or exactly how they were conducted.What you might get is accused of rationalizing about your inability to afford the likes of power cords costing $20,000 and loudspeaker cables costing $27,000.
But suppose the fuse cost as much or more than the preamp. You might as well eliminate the fuse and let the circuit breaker in the house trip if there is a short circuit. If the preamp catches fire you will be there to get a fire extinguisher which costs far less than an "audiophile" fuse if the worst happens.

@invalid

Yeah, I wasn’t questioning your point on the insurance claims. I was more concerned with the safety aspect of using a fuse with a higher rating. Either to protect the equipment itself or preventing a possible fire.

Just not a good idea. As I’ve said, I’ve replace many fuses for different reasons. Blown tubes, thunderstorms or some fluke power surge.

I’d rather replace them with a reasonably priced fuse where I can have replacements on hand than have to replace it with something that cost $50 - $150 or more.

I can’t really comment on the virtues of the sound quality these boutique fuses supposedly provide as I have never tried one and at this stage in my life and where my hearing is at this point I’m not too concerned with it as I’m happy with the sound of my system as is and life’s getting too short. There’s too much music to be listened to without worrying whether some fuse is going to bring my system’s sound up to the next level.

If it works for some or you just believe it does then "Happy Listening."

No way am I going to using a fuse in my equipment rated above the specified rating.


I don't advise it either, I was just making a point that the insurance company does pay claims for situations like this.

All I know is that if I payed over $50 for a fuse you could bet that I would hear a difference. More than likely only because I paid too much for a FUSE!

Whenever a tube blew in my old Rogue Model 88 Magnum tube amp one of the fuses for that channel would blow. I’ve had fuses blow during the ferocious t-storms we get here in Texas during Spring.

No way am I going to using a fuse in my equipment rated above the specified rating.

For someone called "nonoise", you actually make quite a lot of it :) Ever considered changing your user id ?

You really need to stop obsessing over me: I'm not that into you.

All the best,
Nonoise