Small, Effective Subwoofers?

SVS SB 1000 pro 

@vonhelmholtz - just joshin’ ya Von! Thanks for the tips. 🙂

@navyachts 

Well, that’s depressing

I tried to give you positive steps to rectify your setup.  I guess that you stopped reading after my initial sentence.

Looking at your room I now understand your dilemma. It's so open it's difficult to tuck the subs out of sight.It's a beautiful room.The corner in the dining room and to the left behind the console in a white finish? But if those aren't the optimal spots for good bass that would be sad.

@grislybutter - LOL, thx

@navyachts the wife's happiness, feng shui and sound quality are competing concepts, or zero sum game  :)

With that lovely view, I wouldn't be in a hurry to move.

@grislybutter - Thanks, I like your optimistic approach and yes I can definitely move things around, but a couple of things.

I have racked both my back and my shoulder. No problem kicking the loveseat out of the way for listening and closing the drapes (actually, the drapes were hung with listening in mind) but the speakers are another thing, they are heavy.

The manufacture's rubber feet make the difficult to move around as well. If just sideways 10" as you suggest, I could get those slider things, but if I need to move them out from the back wall the carpet is in the way. WAIT! I could just roll the carpet back, I guess (don't tell the wife).

Maybe it would be easier just to move?

" your room isn’t useable for serious listening"

if you pull the curtains, move the sofa by the kitchen back 4 feet (temporarily, when you are "in session") you'd be fine. I'd move both speakers to the right, towards the kitchen 10" or so, until the door, and also out from the wall towards the room at least 10". 

You would be slightly better off on the opposite end of the room, where the dining room is, but that would be challenging with all the furniture.

@vonhelmholtz - "to me, your room isn’t useable for serious listening"

Well, that’s depressing.

Now, I’m getting bombarded to SVS ads all over my computer screen!

So, how about instead of subs, go for the same speakers but "Active"?

I have 2 in my system and they are perfect. 

@navyachts

I should add, I tried base models, I had a very small budget.

Based on your speakers I think you want to add bass that's already there and not bass that's missing. So in some sense, your subs will be competing, unless you set the crossover frequency super low. When I had that competing/overlapping issue, my result was a total mess.

I think your only good option is to put it between the speakers and choose down firing.   

REL would be a super complementary addition for a 2-channel music system, especially if you can do the Series S (e.g., S510, S812, or Carbon Special). I just added a pair of Carbon Special, and very happy with the result, full integration, deeper bass, better soundstage, fast with the ability to keep up with the bass of the main speakers. I previoulsy had a JL Audio Gotham G213 but it was not great for music, built for home theater.

Looked at photos of your space and will be interested in responses from here out because to me, your room isn’t useable for serious listening. Your speakers are against the wall with a large loveseat blocking the right speaker. A glass wall is to the left of the listening position and an open room to the right. Glass table is also a disaster for the sound.

I think that you pick up a pair of small RELs and place them inside your speakers, but if possible, I would move the one loveseat and table out of the room. Move speakers away from walls and listen in near field. Figure out how in a decorative way you can absorb the first reflection before it reaches the glass. Subs go against or close to rear wall.

It looks like a lovely view through the windows.  I’m guessing that the only solution that will be accepted is to leave everything as is and add two small subwoofers..back to your original question.

++++. REL.    T7xi is great.   

I have one Rythmik F12SE ($1,300) between my Revel F228be speakers and it has added a great floor to my system---tight, clean bass. Rythmik is known for making great subs for music.

@grislybutter - this is good to know! Thank you 

I tried SVS, Klipsch, ELAC 10" subs, with no convincing results. I ended up with the Martin Logan Dynamo 700

SVS has a variety of subwoofer sizes and shapes. You might want to try them. I have an SB 300. I’m in a small room is completely controllable using my iPhone. Quite amazing how you can shape the impedance.

 Bent 

@pedroeb - Thx Pedro, only 2 - channels here, but the B&W looks good!

@narrowfellow - My room is kinda big though. Sounds like a great fir for you though!

Another Velodyne MiniVee user here. Use with my Freya+, Akitika, and Proac Tablette 10. Works great in my small listening room. Just what I need to fill in the bottom end without overwhelming everything.

I'll give thumbs up to Bowers and Wilkins DB4S.

It goes down to less than 10Hz and therefore is also excellent for Home Theater Systems.

@lak "I'd give them more break-in time and make sure the speaker cables are in-phase. Even if the red and black ends of the speaker cables look like the correct + and - hook-up experiment and see if it makes a difference"

I tried reversing them and sounds worse, so they must be OK

@atmasphere - opps, sorry, it the two of the ForceField 2s I had, not Tritons!

I only have the one sub, as my dedicated listening room is fairly small. I positioned the sub between, and in the same plane as, the speakers. I have the gain on the sub very low, but it still has substantial output. An impressive component. :)

@niskymichael - yes, I have heard some good things about those KC62s. Where do you place them in relationship to your Maggie's?

I searched for a small, fast, musical sub for my Maggies for several decades. Had very little luck until I picked up a KEF KC62 last year. Pricey compared to the competition, but I couldn’t be happier. Keeps up with the speed of the Maggies and has excellent pitch definition. Goes down to at least 20Hz. Worth checking out. 

Check out the Velodyne Mini Vee powered subwoofers.  I use one with my Marantz 2235B receiver and ADS L300 speakers.

Add MJ Acoustics to the list. I use a Reference 100 with my Harbeth Shl-5. Perfect for covering the lowest octave.

I am surprised that you need subs with the Signature SEs as well, like others mentioned.  My step father has those in his finished basement (large) and they fill the space perfectly with a Rega Elicit Mk4.  I have the Legacy Studio HDs, and use a REL T5i, which I recommend for size and also their wireless transmitter!  My space is very limited and awkward for placement of everything, so putting the sub, "somewhere" was really the only option.  The wireless transmitter delivers the HI LEVEL signal and is pretty much identical to the wired hook up....only you can put it anywhere you want, or need for dealing with nulls, or placing "in the only spot you can put it!" like my set up.

Best of luck and let us know what you come up with. 

 

I have the Hsu ULS15 MkII and like it.  Makes percussion instruments sound very life-like.

@kenstewart2005 +1

+2 (or 3 or 4,, lost count) for the SVS SB1000 pro.

I have dual SVS SB1000 Pro. Love ’em. Not to expensive, Smallest your gonna find for a 12" sub. The bluetooth app is a must (never gonna go back to "get up, sit down. get up, sit down" pain of adjustments).

PS: @navyachts please edit your last response,,, way to much empty space gonna kill your thread.

If space is a concern, check out the Kef KC62 or KF92. They are very small, the KC62 is only about 10"x10" with 2x 6.5" drivers and the KF92 has 2x 9" drivers. Both have a 2x 500W (1000W total) class D amp and can go down to 11Hz (-3dB) according to the spec.

JL Audio E110

Love our REL T5i. Fast and invisible.

I agree, check out the REL's:

The REL T5/x is exactly 12" tall.

If your main speakers are rated to 22Hz I don't think a sub is needed and one that small may not help.

As others have stated maybe an amp that's rated for 1 or 2 ohms with sufficient current/power for your needs?

Maybe your room is the problem.  

I'm running two REL T7/x subs to the left and right of the main speakers and don't have a problem.  FWIW my room is symmetrical, rectangular, small (11x14) and treated.

Agree with the new amp philosophy. I too have the Signature SE's powered by a Legacy I V5 amp, really don't need a sub except for movies. Give the folks at Legacy a call. My guess is they will either recommend a different amp or may be able to make you a sub to fit your requirements.

Outlaw Audio M8 Powered Subwoofer? Seems you get good bang for your Buck?

I have an older Hsu Research Sub that works well with my Tekton Lore Be speakers. 

Look at the Dynaudio 18s. Dual opposed 9 in drivers. Reaches down to almost 20hz. Compact and transmits zero vibration to the floor. Very "musical"

I use it with my ATC SCM 19s and it is excellent .

I have a pair of Rel T/5x's paired with my Dynaudio Special 40's.

I put them next to the speaker stands where I had planned when I got them and after trying to dial them in did not like the sound. I then put them in the front corners, back corners, and eventually out into the room on either side of the couch behind my listening spot. Even a few inches off the precise location I set based on listening tests messes with the sound.

I have a nearly square room that may make placement a particularly big deal for me.

Small, Effective Subwoofers?

"There is no substitute for cone area than more cone area."

- Optimize 

I like my REL T5x. For the size of my room it’s perfect. Would like another one though. 😀

@navyachts 

@hheedah 

I use three Rel subs (two T5's and one T7) plus one SVS PB2000 along with a Musical Fidelity M6si integrated as well.

So you know, 4 subs are better than two and putting the subs right next to your speakers is risky at best. If you are experiencing low frequency issues without the subs, it may be due to your speakers being in a less than ideal position for bass reproduction. Placing the subs near to that position may do nothing to help because the subs will be in a bad position as well. Do a sub crawl and find where the subs work best.

The SVS 1000SB are 14" x13". Very compact to fit under a table,behind furniture so you won't even see them. They can be programmed from your listening seat with an easy to use app. They are returnable best of all. As stated by me and others the best place to achieve smooth deep bass is usually not where your speakers are set up.Again, returnable.

I use a REL T5 8" downfiring sub. Musical Fidelity M6si integrated and Neat Xplorer speakers. Small sub fills in the room nicely. 22' deep, 16' wide and 10-11' ceilings.

Speakers 7' apart and 18" from front wall, chair 8' from speakers. Sub positioned at 10:00 against left wall and about 18- 24" ahead of speakers.

For a small sub in works really for my room. I was looking at upgrading to the Signature SE so your posts caught my attention. Surprised about bass lacking. Also surprised Legacy stated no burn-in time. Watching w/ interest...

Assuming you’re going for primarily music, one of the smallest 12" subs are the SVS SB1000 Pros. I have these in a dual sub setup with my Wharfedale Lintons. Lintons at front wall and my subs are on opposing side walls. Did some sub crawling, but primarily went by my REW measurements and ultimately my ears. I often have to go to the subs to see if they’re on, but you can definitely tell when they’re off. Guess I’ve blended them well enough thru measurements and then trial/error. My room goes down to 28hz and I have two corner bass traps. Other than that it’s a carpeted room with a thick curtain over my glass windows. Sounds fantastic and the SVS’ have another great feature - bluetooth app so you can adjust the settings from your listening position.

My final comment is I didn't go dual subs for extra bass, I have enough, but the dual subs handle the nulls mentioned by others, but for me just give a more immersive "presence" with the soundstage, depth, etc.