Nope. If I cant get past the appearance I dont care if to my ears they are the best sounding speaker I ever heard. I wouldnt own them. The guy is like a 20 minute drive from my Hometown. I wouldnt waste his time by having an audition. Wouldnt be fair to him since I know I wont buy em. Just 1 person's opinion. Im sure they are amazing. Maybe if I lose my eyesight I'll grab a pair
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Charney released a new version of the Maestro to accommodate those with smaller rooms. 8” Lii Voxativ or AER driver of your choice and can be finished pretty much any way you might want. They have a more traditional squared off style with the horn facing the floor. BTW they sound incredible for what they are!! FWIW All of the Charney designs are made from wood. Void free Baltic Birch plywood, wood veneers, and solid wood accents. No particle board, compressed paper, or vinyl veneers. http://charneyaudio.com/the-maestro.html |
The Maestro looks like a skinny OMEGA Speaker Model. Too bad he doesnt design one to look like a LII AUDIO CRYSTAL 10 Model. Those are REALLY nice looking IMHO https://www.lii-audio.com/product/one-pair-10-inch-full-range-drivers-and-cabinets-complete-official... |
One thing I forgot to mention. Specs for loudspeakers are extremely misleading. No 10 inch driver goes flat to 30 Hz in a normal room not even 10" subwoofer drivers. The measurement was taken very near field under anechoic conditions. None of these single driver systems produce any real output below 100 Hz and Ralph is quite correct. The driver flaps at 30 Hz just the same even though it can not project that frequency in a room. This doppler distorts all other frequencies. Roll off the bass at 100 Hz and the speakers will magically get cleaner. This is the same for large one way ESLs, removing the bass increases headroom and detail to unheard of levels. Many speakers make due with just mid bass. Our brains, tricky things that they are, extrapolate the fundamental. 40 Hz is more palpable than audible. Real bass you feel. If you do not feel anything there is no real bass. This is what makes live performances so incredible, the palpability of the music. Big drivers beam treble which is fine as long as you sit square on with the driver at ear level. I have been living with beamy loudspeakers for decades. Ralph is right again. Whenever you see whizzer cones, run away! It does not matter how fancy the magnet looks. Whenever you see "fancy" in a driver, run away. Some of the fanciest looking drivers are the junk they sell for cars. If it looks good it must sound good? Right. |
Enjoying this thread! Since Covid shut pretty much everything down a year ago, I needed a hobby. (Idle hands are the devil’s workshop...) So I’ve been building a lot of speakers. The bulk of which have been full range drivers. These run the full gamut from simple vented book shelf speakers, folded horns, pencils, voigt pipes, BIB enclosures (1/2 wave Horn) and really big double horns. There really is something special to my ears that comes from a big a$$ed horn speaker. Are they compromised? Sure they are, what speakers are not? The big double horns have so much “breath” in the sound, so much air . Sound is very unique, and people seem to either love em, or... As an experiment, my friend bought an old Heathkit 8 watt EL84 based integrated. Synergy was insane. They worked so well together! Such a pleasure to listen to. Im a fan of the single driver horn speaker. And as was mentioned by someone earlier in this thread, my hearing stops working somewhere around 13khz, so doesn’t really matter much what happens after that. Though I suspect my cat has other feelings on that subject... Have not felt as though I was missing much in the bass. But I’m not playing organ music, or watching movies, so not really too concerned about what happens below 40hz For comparatively little money, and a bit of elbow grease, not that difficult to build and there are some interesting designs out there. Two drivers, some decent plywood, glue and some tools, you can experiment... https://www.frugal-horn.com/downloads/SpawnHorn-v2-planset-181117.pdf |
Yes, Dale Harder's TLS-1 and TLS-2. Single driver, no crossover. Omni directional speaker with perfect time and phase alignment. Fully coherent 360 degree sound dispersion. Check him out at www.hhr-exoticspeakers.com Check out my system page for a pic. |
Looks like fun to build but a lot of work for a single driver system. The bass is still going to doppler distort everything else the driver does. For such a large speaker why not do a two way transmission line speaker. There are excellent passive crossover designs out there or use a digital crossover. |
That is a patented " wide-range coherent transmission-line" design. Lincoln Walsh - Wikipedia Not the same as a box speaker transmission line design. Definitely a lot of work to design and build! Nobody else even attempts it like that (1 full range physical driver, no electronic crossover) these days. It’s a classic design though realized via modern techniques and materials. Different designs...different goals. “Coherent Wave Transmission Line Drivers” www.hhr-exoticspeakers.com (hhr-exoticspeakers.com) Most unique! |
Charles, right, thank you. I was trying to recall Tonian Labs name.IIRC Tonian no longer carries the PHY product. He used to be the importer. Samuel Furon of Ocellia has taken over PHY. He has an office in Canada and does distribution from there. Since the bass can be handled by a subwoofer, its really only important that a full range driver make it to something less than 70Hz or so. That is why I find the 6" PHY appealing, since it can do that (in the right cabinet) with fairly smooth highs. Duke LeJeurne designed a sealed box for this speaker which also employed a pair of rear-firing Fostex tweeters. The main driver had no crossover. I did some pink noise measurements and that design made it to 70Hz fairly well- no leaness, and the rear-firing tweeters helped it with not being beamy in the highs. PHY has a rear-loaded horn design for their 8" and 6" drivers; I'm hoping to hear one of those fairly soon. |
Single-driver speakers split into many categories. Some want high-efficiency, some just want tone, while other may look for crystal-clear sound stage coherency. The music you listen to adds to the equation. Do you need to "feel" helicopter blades in slo-mo (Matrix...) or you're fine with a less extended but well-defined double-bass notes in Jazz ensembles. Do you really need a flat response to 20KHz when your tired old ears hardly tell the presence of a very low-level 12KHz fifth harmonic. These are all very subjective sonic values that each listener has to decide on his/her own. Every speaker that I've heard in my long audio search has some compromises. The question in my mind is always whether the set of compromises in a particular product are the best for me. Some may find perfection in beautiful Teresonic with a Lowther driver, despite some "shouting" here and there. Some find their peace with a Frugel Horn with a less efficient MarkAudio driver. Other resort to vintage drivers in custom enclosures and possibly tolerate more distortion at higher sound levels. I'll end the post with a recipe that worked great for me. I read about the Coral Holey Basket on GlowInTheDark audio site and was intrigued by a smallish driver. Tried it for myself and was not happy with its bass response but while reading I discovered the larger 4" brother, the Sony 211-12 out of a TC-630 reel-to-reel. Yes, it's old, it's paper cone, it's a cost-limited commercial driver. It also supports AlNiCo magnets and a 16 ohm coil (more turns!) which is a powerful motor, all for driving a light 4" paper cone. Whether Coral or Sony intended or not, the result is really an outstanding full-range driver. It's not a perfect driver and you'll be able to tell its (minor) limitations if you listen carefully but its dynamic/transient response results in an amazing tone. I tried it in easy to find cabinets and settled on a Celestion F2, with the tweeter and crossover disconnected, of course. While these speakers will easily run with a small tube amp, I have a more recent Onkyo A-5VL that drives them perfectly. You'll never think of a class-D being a compromise after hearing this combo. I listen to Jazz, rock, flamenco, pop, country, classical, opera, the whole nine yard... This speaker does the full range just fine, including very low electric bass guitar or double-bass notes. Midrange is great and high extension is more than enough (some find it excessive) for me, and I am a treble and high harmonics freak... (It's where the life is in the music...) Soundstage is great and extends well beyond the speakers boxes (whas's that?!) from almost any position in a small living room. If you're on the fence in regard to single drivers but want to try, this DIY project is an easy super low-cost recommendation. In my book it is the fine champagne on a real cheap beer budget! |
If you only listen to acoustic folk, vocal, unplugged, at moderate volumes. Some of those single driver speakers do sound amazing. Depends on your music. If you like electric guitar stuff with bass guitar, and other stuff like that, I would say go for it. If you like some volume sometimes, and like rock and roll, 3 or 4 way towers, or monkey coffins are the best bet. |
...but, the original Ohms were single drivers, as are the HHR 'flagship' units.... The current Ohm offerings are 2 driver units, with a 'Walshed mid & bass driver with dome tweeters. Heresy vs. 'bottom line' costs? Perhaps... My diy 'clones' have gone to a Walsh tweeter as well. And I eschew using a cabinet for the low bass for a subwoofer....which is omni by physics anyway. Heresy sublimation? Well, yes. But the final effect 'may' be closer to the original intent....imho. We can discuss....and I can always opt for 2 subs....;) Multiple materials applied to a single driver strikes me as having inherent weaknesses, even with modern materials and adhesives. That, and the decision where to place the 'physical crossover' from one material to another seems problematic and a potential issue to be avoided... But, I'm just an outlier with an attitude...*s* That...and a 'footprint' in a given space is dinky....against a 'monkey coffin'. 9" dia. x 42" tall, vs. what? 😒🤷♂️ Beat that. |
Cube Audio complete Nenuphar speakers were out of my price range so I purchased F10 Neo drivers via Refined Audio and had Salk Sound build the cabinets - to Cube Audio specifications. I am very happy with the result. The first thing that hits you is the bass: it is BIG, the biggest I’ve had. The sound is very detailed and dynamic, even at low to medium listening volumes. I don’t find it fatiguing at all. When they first arrived I spent the whole night listening to various favorite albums and enjoying the newfound clarity. This set replaced Tekton Design Double Impacts which are great but came out more muted in comparison (or, using the audiophile cliche, you could say “veiled”). They never reached the lowest bass which goes down to hell with Cubes. I spent a week or two switching between DIs and Cubes. To be completely honest, I think DIs have a bit more presence in mid bass but it seemed more muddy - definitely not as punchy and satisfying as Cubes. I am driving them with PrimaLuna Evo 300, rarely going past 1/4 of the volume. I also tried First Watt SIT-3 and found it very comparable but a tad too polite and not as engaging and alive as PrimaLuna. |
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A single, dynamic "full-range" driver per channel is a single point source per channel. One point source per channel is a major draw, as is the avoidance of a passive cross-over, but for a single driver to approximate anything close to full-range let alone maintain its virtues over a wider band is hardly realistic, but I may sit corrected with the representation out there and the gains of the development over the years. Pearl Acoustic speakers, among other brands, have interesting (small) single-driver-sans-XO options for the smaller listening areas and with SPL-limitations. Charney Audio, Omega speakers and Voxativ are very highly praised, and may offer a more all-out assault compared to multi-way speakers with pros and cons on both sides. A coaxial driver also acts as a single point source, though it needs a cross-over (but not necessarily as passive one) and comes with caveats in the throat area of the HF-unit here and the LF-cone to act more or less as a horn. Some coaxial drivers do come equipped with a separate horn/waveguide to load the compression driver inside. The 10" coaxial driver-equipped WLM Diva speakers sound great, I find, and mate well with lower powered tube amps. There’s also the interesting, active Geithain RL 901K speakers that fairly closely emulates a point source. And then there’s Danley Sound Labs Synergy horns that act as a true point source per channel/speaker, by summing the sound of several drivers via a shared horn. They’re high efficiency speakers intended for the pro arena, but that’s not to say the can’t sound excellent in a domestic environment. Different options here, but the SH50’s are popular among the (open-minded) audiophiles that appreciate live-like dynamics and live-like tonality and overall presentation. Mated with a pair of, say, Danley Sound Labs TH50 tapped horn subs it’s a dynamite combo that can challenge most any "high-end" speakers out there, at a much cheaper price and close to unlimited dynamic envelope to boot. |
Cube audio founder Grzegorz Rulka sent me a blueprint for cabinets. He recommended not to put these drivers into generic cabinet (which I also explored). Jim Salk did a great job and for the lowest price I could find (I took a couple of quotes). Salk prefers to work with MDF boards. I insisted on plywood which raised the price a bit. But Jim convinced me to put a second MDF board layer for the front baffle to stiffen it and reduce vibrations and provide more support for these heavy drivers. I think it was an excellent decision. Jim was super patient with me and worked on details for a long time. Highly recommended. PM me for details about the prices. As for the picts - it does not look It is possible to insert in this forum? I chose a black finish to achieve more dramatic contrast for orange drivers. |
@tkukielk that’s a great idea having salk build the cabinets. I’m a big Salk fan. I have two pairs now (Song3’s and Wow1’s) and also had a pair of songtowers. I also recently purchased Cube Nenuphar Mini’s. I wanted a walnut finish and was thinking of contacting Jim to build a cabinet since Cube sells the driver and the speaker is very simple since it doesn’t have a crossover. However, when I contacted the dealer he said he had a special pair of walnut mini’s already on the way for himself and sold them to me. Just curious, how much did jim charge? His cabinetry is excellent so I wouldn’t hesitate using him to fabricate these speakers. Any pics? Also love that you’re using the Evo 300 with them. I’m using a Canary M90 push pull 300b amp. Sounds great but is a bit polite as well. My first tube amp was a Primaluna Dialogue 1 and I really liked it. I’ve been thinking of trying the Evo 300 with these as I really like the EL-34 tubes. |
Per request, here is the link to a couple of photos of the cabinets made by Salk Sound for Cube F10 neo drivers: Cube - OneDrive (live.com) |
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Single driver speakers. Are they worth considering ?
"In my experience, yes - absolutely. I have several pair of multidriver speakers & a pair of Tekton Lore S. The Lore S have a full range Seas driver & a Seas tweeter that ads a touch of sparkle on top: so maybe they are 'single driver+'. Regardless, they are fast and dynamic with an even frequency response, go down sufficiently low (unless you listen to alot of pipe organ music) and they are crisp w/o fatigue. Perfect for small combo & jazz. They can be overwhelmed by large orchestral works & some extremely busy music. But thats true of many multi driver speakers. Despite some posts here with absolute knowledge that ALL single driver are TERRIBLE, I know they have a place in my home. There are better speakers for loud party music and better speakers for breaking your ribs with bass pulses; but mine are perfect for listening in our living room. I will always own & enjoy the Lore S. They do some things very very well - in my home, to my ears, with my electronics. YMMV. |
@jayctoy Here's what I was told (by Jon at Refined Audio) about building a small sealed box for a pair of Cube Audio Drivers: "I have a <slight> preference for the presentation of the 8” Neo over the 10” Neo.. Not sure where/how you would crossover, but it may be necessary to put in a baffle step correction if you are crossing over at a low frequency....The 8” Neo in a sealed box about .7 to 1 cubic feet is amazing, I used that for a long time... The open baffle has a big, open soundstage. The sealed box will have a smaller, but better defined soundstage. So it is a matter of taste. I prefer the sealed box with the Cube speakers…" |
yes wideband drivers are great but subs are needed a highpass to protect them as well and many like to add a supertweeter for even dispersion so its a 3 way, with xo points around 60hz and 10khz. quite ideal actually. probably the best mid ive ever heard came from 1 way. Ive heard extensively the WE 755a: best mids ive ever heard, spooky good ps: if you want "fullrange" wideband= high end Headphones |
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I used 15 Ohm Lowther DX2 in home-made Fidelio boxes for almost a decade, finally just wanted a change. Still, I am keeping them, as they do some things right; there is even some [illusion of] bass (with a SET amp). However, they only sound right with that 300B SET amp, anything solid state was poor match (including Pass Aleph 4). |
I have not read it in this thread but the biggest advantage of a single driver is linear phase. It can make what response you do have sound very good and be error free (if the driver is good). Manger has explored this design idea extensively. I am the US office for the Auratone Supercube 5c, probably the most successful single driver speaker in the US, still in production, used in pro for studios. Entire records (such as Thriller) were built on them, Tom Elmhirst who has built a lot of big records uses them with his ATC 50s.. Very helpful speakers as they avoid most errors. Dispersion narrows as frequency increases and there is no getting around that physics issue. Attempts to extend one end of the spectrum seem to reduce the other end. You can slide the window of reproduction up and down but not wide enough with current materials and designs. Concentric drivers are nice like the Tannoy or Genelec, in that they have very little physical offset between LF and HF drivers. So they image well compared to typical 2 ways. This CoAx idea has been around since the 20's, I have a Stromberg Carlson 1929 radio with a hand made coaxial driver on a transmission line (the Acoustical Labyrinth). Its an impressive solution. Brad |
Here are a couple more for consideration. http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/lii-audio-f15.html https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMS.html |
