mahlman
If one were to apply the logic that you use to support the opinion expressed in your initial post, then:
One cannot appreciate a work of art unless you have yourself chiseled marble, mixed pigments to create the desired colors or stretched a canvas over a frame.
One cannot appreciate the skill and creativity of the composer without having composed.
One cannot comprehend that alcoholism and drug addiction are not beneficial to one’s health without having succumbed to such vices.
I, however, am not offended by your argument as I am primarily a lover of music; audiophilia runs a distant second.
Enjoy the music. |
@hifihandyman...I suspect not....K would be all over us like stink on....
'nuff said....;) |
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This post wouldn’t have been so ridiculous if there wasn’t such a sense of anger behind it. I personally enjoy DIYing stuff, tinkering, etc., but just because someone else doesn’t, does not exclude them from being an audiophile. They still get to keep their “I ❤️ AUDIO” bumper sticker with pride.
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Fortunately I started young, planting the Redwood tree that would grow to provide the Rosewood veneer for my DBA. While that was growing I was busy digging the ore I would refine down into voice coils and speaker cables. Fortunately tubes are not that hard, mostly silica for the glass although it took years building my lungs up to where I could get enough vacuum. Speakers actually not that hard, paper pulp cones only take a year or so to make, not bad at all. I did cheat and use melted down plastic bottles for the platter. All was on track and I was close to my goal of being a genuine Real McCoy Audiophile, one who built everything from scratch and trial and error, until I heard wire is directional. That's it. I am done with audio.
Fortunately I was saving aluminum cans the whole time and have almost enough to melt down into the case and pistons for a flat six.... |
Why does the term need to be defined, anyway?
i hereby declare myself an “audio liker.” No requirements to join my club. Who’s with me? |
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*S* Well 'stated', MC....+1
Jack of all trades, master of some....but no all-encompassing knowledge that allowed me to have intials follow my name. Been up to my elbows in many things (except PG testing a cow....one has to have limits...)....
Am I an audiophile? I work at it. An audio enthusiast? Better...*S*
I enjoy the many forms I listen to. I enjoy 'tweaking' (in my own fashion) what I listen to it with. I challenge myself with my DIY Walsh project.
Between that and the 'day2day' and half of a FT business....
I've enough ongoing.
Oh, I solder too. Heat clips, desoldering, long-nose pliers, shrink tubes...
Do helluva 'tribal burn scars' if anyone's interested....;) |
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Why would you ask a question like that?
If you could only see the worlds I’ve seen. Music and cool gear isn’t about any one lust or talent.
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Maybe we should adopt a variation of Twitter blue checkmark where we only recommend components we have owned or heard ?????, after we pass a class on confirmation bias.
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Anybody catch the dude extolling the virtues of becoming a better listener is sky high on a speaker..... he has never heard...,, ????? |
SMD fluent? wave Solder ? cold welded crimp with silver paste ?..... curved traces on the board? Multiple sided boards ( but not too many ), forming caps with external voltage sources cause the boutique caps y’all randomly substitute in don't form....
chord theory
make your own humbucker or cut down a tree so you can build a Les Paul neck thru body ?
or do none of that....
bring everything, except ego..... |
Mahlman seems to be upset with people who can afford more than he can, that seems to be where the source of his frustration comes from. I suppose the best of anything dosnt cost more than the average, or less than average? I’ve seen people who don’t really make much, save for years to buy an expensive component, not because they are rich. And people who have money and can afford more expensive equipment, must be excluded and because they can afford it, makes them snobs? Seems the OP is displaying a snobbery of a different type. The type that is jealous of what they cannot have. I cannot afford the very highest end of equipment, but why should it bother me that there are those who can. I’m sure some people do purchase expensive equipment just to show off. So what. It’s their money, and that person isn’t really an audiophile in that respect. But that sort of person probably isn’t on forums like this, as we arnt the ones they’re trying to impress. Why can’t the guy who has a 2k system and the one who has a 200k system both enjoy what they have and pleasure they derive from what they hear. That would be like saying if I make 2 million a year, that I should live in a 100k home. Why should I? To make the guy that can only afford the 100k home happy and give him something for him to be jealous about? Or I should t own a Bentley if I could afford it for the same reason? Anyone knows if you own a Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc, that you can really appreciate cars, right? I’m sure that anyone with even a small amount of common sense realizes this whole idea is ridiculous. Stop trying to define what other can and cannot be, based on what you can or cannot be. |
A true audiophile must possess at least a Ph.D. in high-energy or mathematical physics and, moreover, understand fully the condensation of electrons out of the primordial superheated soup of the Big Bang. This is why Roger Penrose is the greatest living audiophile. |
Serious? It takes a special kind to be so obnoxious. Wanna put up your own Audiophile Autonomous Zone? |
“ had a stupid writer ask me once, what are you man ? .... I am just a whiskey rock n roller man, that’s what I am... “ |
I have a pretty nice stereo system, I love music, own a couple of turntables and know my way around a soldering iron. And I could not possibly care less about whether I have the qualifications to be labeled as an audiophile. Why would anyone care?
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I suppose I'm just a music lover really. |
I used to solder but was lousy so I crimp now. I might not be a good audiophile but I can be a pretty good autophile in a crowd. |
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As an engineer both MSME MSEE and CME your post is stupid.
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Well gosh I am crushed. Say since you have all those letter thingamajigs there why don't you explain why it is stupid?
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Sorry - I just joined this forum yesterday and I don’t own a soldering
gun. Do I need to join another forum first then graduate or work my way
up to this one? Thanks
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No you don't need to worry about graduating somewhere to come here. All you need is a reality filter to not take cable cookers and cryogenic wire treatments as truth. Or many of the overpriced bits of gear as good value for the money spent. There are nuggets of goodness here you just have to work a bit harder to find them than you might have to in other places.
HEY geoffkait where's your tag team partner glupson?
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An audiophile is anyone that declares or considers themselves to be an audiophile.
You don't need any approval or certification from anyone else to be considered an audiophile.
And lastly, an audiophile doesn't care whether you think he is or isn't.
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An audiophile is a lover of music. Yes, I have built headphone amplifiers, many cables and repaired pre-amps and amps; however, IMO that does not make me any more appreciative of listening to music. I took my daughter to the Seattle Symphony when she was 9 years old. When I looked over at her there was tear coming from her eye from the emotion of her connecting with the music, now that is an audiophile.
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Sorry - I just joined this forum yesterday and I don’t own a soldering gun. Do I need to join another forum first then graduate or work my way up to this one? Thanks
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Sarcasm is the last refuge of the anti audiophile.
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“A true audiophile...”
Give me a break. The post is the saddest mix of envy and snobbery I have yet seen on this forum. Congratulations, as that bar has never been higher.
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As an engineer both MSME MSEE and CME your post is stupid. Is it stupid to insist on the importance of the acoustics? An amplifier of 1978 or of 2020 can be very good and even on par in spite of the difference in design....The design science of amplifier is already good for the last 50 years...There is exception for sure, my Sansui amplifier design will be trespass by a Berning ZOTL for example....I dont negate improvement in engineering.... My point is acoustic is totally underestimated in the experience of most people.... This is my experience with audio.... More than 80 % of all threads in audio forums are about electronics....And the most important for Hi-Fi experience is the embeddings and first and foremost the acoustical embeddings....The electrical and mechanical one are important but comes after in superlative audible effects....The difference between 2 electronic components design is way less spectacular most of the times in my experience than a rightfully workings on the 3 embeddings mainly in the acoustical dimension.... If you dont know that I doubt that this is my post that is stupid, sorry..... :) I cannot exhibit any letters after my title: lover of music and creative audiophile with homemade materials and low cost one.... :) |
As an engineer both MSME MSEE and CME your post is stupid.
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I know that this thread is intended only to be sarcasm....The OP is intelligent....But I will answer like I dont know it was mainly sarcasm....
Electronic components engineering is most of the times secondary, even speakers design is most of the times secondary factor, the most important factors if you have a relatively "good" audio system already in your hand is not upgrading for a so called better design most of the times but how to embed mechanically, electrically, and foremost acoustically the audio system, never mind his design....
That is my audiophile only discovery..... :)
If you want an Hi-fi experience you need not an electronic engineer but an acoustician mainly...
For example the design of missiles is not so different from Von Braun days , if you want very good missiles nowadays you need more an A.I. specialist than Von Braun himself....
The amplifier is like a missile in my metaphor....The science of acoustics like A.I.
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And yet, we did get it. Sarcasm based on actual feelings are still actual feelings. Big deal. It's been done to death here.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Should a sunny day be considered humid?
Absurd.
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" I am shocked not by your post, but how the intended sarcasm went over so many heads :-)"
It IS pretty shocking is it not? My wife wants to know what I am laughing about again.
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mahlman,
I am shocked not by your post, but how the intended sarcasm went over so many heads :-)
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A trolling, a trolling, a trolling I will go, hi ho the dairy o, a trolling I will go. 🕺🏻 |
The OP seems to think that only those who can afford to waste money on audio gear are the same as those who can’t build or appreciate the music. Is that another way of saying that save for the ability of being able to build some piece of gear, one cannot appreciate the results?
Or is it another way of saying I couldn’t afford to buy something nice so I went and made it and it’s better than what one can buy, since I built it?
I, for one, would never spend $60K on a pair of cables and yet cannot build a thing and yet, appreciate fine gear that makes fine music that doesn’t cost a fortune. Why is it that when subjects like this come up, it’s mostly about the extreme costs of some gear being conflated with anything that costs more than something you could buy at Radio Shack?
I come from the days when everyone worked on their own cars and only a few thought they knew it all because they got something to run for a week or two. Big deal.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It may be fitting to note poster @mahlman's last paragraph above ends with a question: what do we think defines an audiophile? The man simply shared his opinion, to which he's entitled, and then went on to invite us into the same inquiry; kudos for doing just that - quite a few could learn from it instead of only telling others what to do and how to think.
And besides: audiophilia arguably needs a shakeup. Maybe it's time for the sense of entitlement as an audiophile to give way to what's more purely an exploration, whatever the hell we call ourselves on this journey. Let's be audio anarchists rather than catering to the industry and what's neat and tidy, and oftentimes very expensive. I'm provoked rather than offended.. |
How many engineering credits and technician apprenticeship hours were required prerequisites to join this forum again?...I forget. |
Another analogy: To be a great race car driver does not require one have the ability to build a race car. I would say having a deep understanding of music is a more fitting requisite to be an audiophile. But why the "fitness" test? IMO, being a perceptive music listener is a more distinguished accomplishment than being an audiophile. The latter merely facilitates the former. |
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A question that's cultivated some amusing responses.
There are a number of people here I'd love to pull a cork with.
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If you are ever in southern middle TN PM me and stop in. No champagne or wine corks but I do have coffee and a big pile of gear.
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This comes up all the time here. Practically every day. Whole bunch of
guys say something all authoritative as if they actually know something,
when more often than not its just them repeating something they heard
or read somewhere. But everyone says it so it must be true. Baloney!
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This is it precisely.
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I don’t need to be a plumber to use the toilet.
But there are times when amateur plumbing skills sure come in handy.
On a more serious note, I'm not a fan of thought systems which increase division between people. I'm in favor of drawing bigger and more inclusive circles, instead of smaller and more exclusive ones. I think the world will be a better place when, instead of seeing "us" and "them", we see only "us".
Even if we disagree among ourselves about the definition of "audiophile".
Duke
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Every once in a while I like to poke fun at pretentious "Audiophiles" that have very long noses they look down as they regard the unwashed that think mere money does not equate with discerning taste. I just love $60,000 dollar cables so much and they provide me with great entertainment. So take this thread for what it is worth, which is not much, but it can be fun to poke holes in puffed up people and watch the hot air leak out.
I am quite serious though that the amount of money you spend does not indicate you are anywhere close to being an audiophile except maybe in your own mind. Some of the grandiose things I read here even get my wife's attention as she asks what am I laughing about now as she just did.
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What a giant load of horse droppings. |
The OP statement shows he/she has way too much time on their hands. I have been an audiophile for 50+ years and I still can’t solder to save my life. So what? I can still appreciate music and know what to listen for. No one has the right to say who and who is not an audiophile. |
Whole bunch of guys say something all authoritative as if they actually know something, when more often than not its just them repeating something they heard or read somewhere. But everyone says it so it must be true. Baloney! If someone's passionate opinion is "A sounds better than B" they don't need to understand the engineering nor have hands-on experience for their voice to be valid. If they are misquoting Ohm's Law (eg) then yes, I agree. |
djones51-
Macgyver has the ability to make audiophile level speakers with any surrounding natural materials in every episode, before the commercial break.
Please don't include Macgyver in audiophoolery, he's above this nonsense. |
