You can special order almost any speaker cable in any
length from most cable manufacturers, even the big boys,
(Audioquest, Cardas, Kimber, Wireworld, etc).
Most will ask you to go through one of their dealers, but
the dealer will take care of you. |
The great thing about short speaker wire runs is you can get, if you so choose, a more-expensive-per-foot wire. For instance, when I was using a balanced-out pre and balanced-in mono power amps, I used long balanced inter-connects and one foot long pure silver speaker cables from Kimber. Silver is expensive, but with only one foot runs not so bad. |
"07-03-15: Mofimadness
You can special order almost any speaker cable in any
length from most cable manufacturers, even the big boys,
(Audioquest, Cardas, Kimber, Wireworld, etc)."
He's right. I've had AQ make me several custom cables.
Another option to consider, if you're willing to buy used, is to buy something like an 8 foot pair of cables. Then, send the cables to AQ and have them chop it into 4 different lengths and re terminate. |
Shorter cables do not always sound better, depends on cable, equipment, preferences... |
While I agree that shorter speaker cables may not always sound better, certainly from the standpoint of subjective preference, I would add that nearly all speaker cable EFFECTS are proportional to length, and therefore DIFFERENCES between speaker cables will become smaller as length decreases.
Putting aside whatever effects connectors may have, the only speaker cable effect I can think of that would not be proportional to length (although it would still vary as a function of length) is the possibility that by acting as an antenna the cable could conceivably cause RFI (radio frequency interference) to be picked up and injected into the feedback loop of the amplifier, if it has a feedback loop. Which might under some circumstances, with some amplifiers and in some RFI environments, have audible consequences. Although I suspect that kind of effect is unlikely to be significant in most circumstances, and apart from shielding that may be provided in some speaker cables it would have little or no predictability with respect to cable type or price even if it did occur.
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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Whether or not shorter speaker cables sound better than longer ones, two facts about them are indisputable:
1- They're cheaper! Especially if you're bi-wiring (one long pair of inter-connects is cheaper than two long pairs of speaker cables).
2- The don't sound worse! Remember when at least one wire company claimed cables had to be of at least a certain length before they sounded good? That kind of baloney didn't help the cable industry's credibility. |
Cable should be at least 2 FT for best sound. |
Do yourself a big favor and purchase 8 feet of this Western Electric NOS
wire from the 70s. It will cost you some $15 and be as good or better than
cables costing you hundreds or thousands new or used. Just strip the ends
and connect the bare wire for the best sound. The copper strands are
tinned so no worries about oxidation.
No hype here, but just honest to goodness beautiful sounding cable. Many
are just now learning about it and know what a wonderful buy it is. I cannot
overstate the joy loaded in the big smile these will give you.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231598278893
Read this......
http://jeffsplace.me/wordpress/?p=7469
The very best speaker cables I have owned, and I have owned many, cost
$1800 new and were a value compared to others I tried costing even more.
I like this WE16ga as much in most sonic areas. I know it seems too good
to be true and we have all heard the same thing about Mogami and others.
Well I tried Mogami and others and they were not giant killers....but good.
This WE16ga is the real deal..... at last.
I like it so much that I have ordered enough to wire my outboard crossover
and speaker internals with it. I will also use it inside my electronics in critical
signal paths. |
Had some AQ cables made at 3' length and was no biggie to order that way. |
Grannyring,
I'm glad I turned the board on to Jeff Day Blog on the Western Electric 16ga
tinned copper wire as well as the Belden 8402 microphone cable as
interconnect. I am also glad you are spreading the word. A big shout-out to
Jeff Day and his Spiritual twin, amp builder extraordinaire, Shirokazu
Yazaki-san, without whom, non of us would know about this WE speaker
wire.
I just wish Rebbi and some of the other folks on Rebbi's thread concerning
good speakers for his Audio Note AN Kit-1 would give it a go...they might
feel as I, you, and some others now feel, it is that good. And it is still dirt
cheap while it lasts. It too, is NOS and disappearing fast.
Your comments above absolutely mirror my own thinking. I'm not a DIY like
you, but I am going to take the plunge with my DIY-happy brother and use
this wire to re-wire my speakers, Coincident Dynamo, as well as some
other items.
Additionally, some of you reading this thread might consider the Belden
8402, very similar in character to the WE 16ga. |
I have never found stranded copper to sound as good as solid core...never. That is until this stuff came along. Important to always be open minded in this hobby. This wire bests the finest silver cables I have owned also. I don't understand why, but it simply sounds beautiful. |
Grannyring,
I could not agree more. I put the WE 16ga against my Goertz silver AG1, it lost. I also put it up against some other respected speaker cables that cost in the high hundreds. They also lost. Mr. Yazaki-san and his crew have some wonderful ears and totally know what they are doing. I'm following Yazaki-san suggested capacitor and resistor changes to Day's system, that Day is implementing. I am sure this is the sound I have been searching for. |
With speaker cable that short you're better off sound-wise removing the speaker binding posts and running the wire directly to the crossover. Not a big inconvenience to move/ship the speaker with only 12" of wire hanging off it, and you eliminate a set of binding posts and connectors, always a good thing.
That's what I did when I went to mono amps. I used Cardas 11.5ga copper litz in teflon wire in a tight twisted pair right to the crossover. Sounded much better than the 10' long Zu Ibis silver I was running wit the binding posts. |
Mikirob, which model of the Arizona caps and where can one buy them? I have never seen then at the usual parts stores like Parts Connextion etc.. |
how about Belden 1585a?
Grannyring or Mikirob?
Have you compared it to the 8402?
not trying to hi jack the thread but this was recommended to me on AA and maybe should be considered... |
Another good source for copper (or silver) in cotton is Jupiter Condenser Company. Their wire has a very natural timbre and great dynamics. You can twist it, braid it, or run it single and it sounds great.
Bill, I am skeptical of how tinned copper might sound but, based on the on-line recommendations by you and others, and on my positive experience with the copper-in-cotton Jupiter wire, I just purchased a bunch of the WE 16awg wire. If the strand count is as stated, the individual wire gauge should be about 29/30 awg. I plan to run two separate star-quad runs to each speaker, thus bi-wiring an aggregate 13 awg to each LF and MF/HF. I will let you know how it works out. |
Grannyring,
The Arizona Caps are covered on the Jeff Day Wordpress Blog you
referenced above. Check out the Yazaki-san recommended changes to
Day's system via his capacitor change and update. I think you will find it
enlightening. Yazaki-san use these in his SPEC amp and many 300B
rebuilds. Like their name I believe the Arizona Caps (green/blue) are
located in Arizona, again, I believe Day provides a link.
Yazaki-san also recommends some resistor change to Day that will be
implemented soon. In addition, some tube variants.
I am so thrilled with the cable and interconnect suggested by Yazaki-san
that I too, am going to follow his other suggestions with regard to capacitor,
resistor, internal wiring and tube types/brand as applicable to my situation.
For example, Yazaki-san just sent Day a Haltron 5u4G to try and he and
several friends agreed it bettered the tube in his already superb amp. Now,
Haltron did not manufacturer tubes, but rebrand under their name; trick is to
find out what NOS was it? Brimar? GEC? Or other British Rectifier? This
tube discussion is also on the Day Blog you reference above.
Philjolet, I don't know anything about the Belden1585a as compared to the
Belden 8402. Perhaps I should buy and compare/contrast. Can you tell me
more about it? |
I was initially going to install Jupiter capacitors in my redo of the Coincident Dynamo integrated, but now will go with the Arizona. I am likely to also replace the Nomex internal wiring with the WE 16ga?
I have some pretty good NOS Rectifiers, Mullard 5AR4 from 60s, Phillips, that Upscale is pushing, Grant Fidelity Black Treasure 274B, Mullard Fat Bottle coke shape from 40s/50s (saving for when I get the Franks), amongst others in my tube stash, but I am willing to go with any of the Yazaki-san recommendations and test it out, compare/contrast. This would be a lot more fun if NOS tubes were in line with the WE and Belden wire cost. |
Mikirob I do not know much about wire but here is a link
I hope this helps
http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/1585A.pdf |
Mitch2, I am replacing and have replaced the Jupiter wire you mention as
this stuff is much better sounding. Hard to believe...I know.
I would not try to do anything special in terms of doubling up the gauge
etc... Until you simply try one run for positive and one for negative. Do this
first! I am not sure combining for increased gauge will help or hurt!
All of the positive comments are based on using just one 16ga run for each
leg. More is not always better. |
Mikirob, the Jupiter caps are special, very special. Not sure about the
Arizona caps? Just not sure. I have done MUCH cap rolling and the
Jupiters come out on top. I bet Yazaki-San has not even tried them to be
honest. If the Arizona caps are cheap enough I will compare.
I will be using the WE16a wire inside my amps also. Not ready for the
Arizona cap thing yet as I have to say I seriously doubt the Arizona cap is
as good as the Jupiter. |
I have Vandersteen 5A's with Ayre electronics. My favorite cable is Wireworld...I know because I had the Gold in my system and compared them against the top Anti-Cables. In truth, the Wireworld had a wonderful sense of ease that the Anti's couldn't deliver, however the tonality, the dynamics, ...all of it sounded EXACTLY the same. If I hadn't tried them both, I would never expect these results. Anti's have a money back guarantee. |
Grannyring,
I think the Arizona caps are slightly less expensive, for some reason $42.00 sticks in my brain. I'm willing to bet Yazaki-san has tried nearly every decent Cap from NOS to modern. |
Here is a link to Arizona Capacitors: http://www.arizonacapacitors.com/about-us.php
They are located in Tucson, Arizona. |
Yeah, went to that site and cannot find the caps in question. Need to make a call it seems. I bet the builder has not heard the Jupiter or Duelund caps, but it would be an interesting comparison. The builder seems to use the Arizona caps like a chef makes a recipe. A little of this cap and a little of that cap flavor to suit...... Hard to know which one cap to use in a coupling position or output position. The blue or green Catus? He uses both to taylor the sound recipe.
I found the Jupiter caps to be the most neutral of all caps and just reveals the music wonderfully. |
Back to the original poster.....did you decide on a cable? I sure hope you try the WE16a for less than the cost of shipping other branded speaker cables :) |
Grannyring,
I'll have to defer to you about all the DIY. I have NO experience. But I'm willing to purchase both the Jupiter and Arizona Cactus, Green/Blue and compare/contrast. I trust I can call on you, Jetrexpro, as well as others on Agon as I venture further. Best, Rob |
Grannyring now you got me looking at the WE16g but the link you gave above expired. Can you recommend another source?
thanks |
Philjolet,
I just checked the link and it still works. The eBay seller of the Western Electric 16ga wire is named tajacobs. Legit, that is where Grannyring, I, and the Day Blog responders are buying. The only other sellers I am aware of are in Japan or Taiwan. |
thanks Mikirob the link provided was sold out but he had another link that looked the same and I bought some.
fingers crossed
it sounds like an amazing deal and I can return my Anti Cable
;^) |
I emailed tajacobs and asked him if the 14g WE wire had the same tinned copper strands as the 16g, only more of them. His answer was yes. The 14g might be better for less sensitive speakers and/or longer runs, don't you think? |
Yazaki-san, in Day Blog said same, especially if you have a run beyond 4
meters if I remember correctly. I believe he stated 16ga better up to slightly
longer than 3 meters. |
I already have my WE 16ga and it sounds very big, seductive
and nuanced/expressive, even though they are not broken in
(I do not have a cable cooker)
Grannyring you nailed it: "just honest to goodness beautiful
sounding cable."
Mikirob thanks for your input as well
this may be the best deal I ever got in this crazy hobby
OP - buy some (if you can find it, they look sold out) |
Yes, I doubled up on the runs and when combined with the Belden IC the net result is awesome. The sum of the two together is greater than the individual greatness of each.
This has to be one of the greatest all time audio buys. How could this have been such a hidden gem all these years! The Belden 8402 and the WE16ga must be heard together for the full greatness to be heard. I also feel two runs of the WE16 per pole sounds better than one run. More body and weight with all of the same layering and beauty. |
I will consider (and look into) the Belden 8402 but I am pretty darn happy with Mogami 2534 mic cable and Neutrik pro fi ends especially for $58. |
I have heard the Mogami and the 8402 will amaze you! No kidding. I have built Mogami ic's and speaker cables in the past and the Belden is special or should I saw more special :) |
I can not find the 8402 online except for ebay 300ft
can you help? also where do you buy the RCA jacks you use?
thanks so much
Phil |
Here is the link. They build them just like the Jeff Day site and expert amp
builder suggest using the same Switchcraft connectors and special solder.
Need to buy two for a set of two. Takes about 4 days to make a set and
ship out.
They take about 36 hours to settle in. You will be very pleased.
http://btpa.com/IC8402-XX.html
I sold $1000 Kimber for these and my sound is better to my ears and taste. |
I looked for the special solder to no avail, can you tell me what to ask for?
thank you again |
They will build them for you. Are you wanting to build your own? If not, just order the set from the site and they will build them for you with all the right parts etc...they follow the Jeff Day blog recipe. |
I see, I did not understand and wanted to make sure, thank you
for everything! I placed the order and I look forward to
hearing the Belden! |
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Listening to my system today was a real joy. I continue to shake my head on the money I had spent in the past on wire. For $150 in total for wire, my system has never sounded better. I did not think this wire would better my wonderful cables. To say I am still shocked is an understatement. I have tried other highly touted griant killers and they never made it to that status, these do! |
Grannyring,
I'm so happy you are enjoying this combo of wire as much as I am. I keep pinching myself, thinking Day and Yazaki-san helped me find the sound I was looking for for cheap $ after all these years of spending $$$$ for wire that can't match this combo of WE and Belden. It's just amazing! |
Is Belden 8402 usable balanced? My main inter-connect (between pre and power) is balanced, standard three pin. Doesn't that require co-ax cable? Is the Belden two-conductor with shield? |
The mogami is not nearly as good though it is a good value still. |
Yes, the Belden is easy to make balanced. Refer to the Day blog above.
See Grannyring link. The Link in the Day Blog gets you to the Belden seller.
They can do the balanced terminations for you. But you should read the
Jeff Day Blog with all comments from respondents as well as Yazaki-san,
the builder of the SPEC amp who recommended the WE16ga and Belden
8402. We owe Yazaki-san a huge thank you! Best, Rob |
Short and Fat (big gauge) works best.
Sonic quality of speaker cable is speaker dependent.
This old study is still true.
https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil |
Thanks Rob, found the reference to balanced 8402. |
One final post to tout the benefits of the Belden 8402 with the WE16ga.
I can not believe how much bigger the sound stage got and the definition top to bottom is outstanding, everything drenched in musical nuance and harmonics.
Things like hearing the skin of the drums or a guitar strumming are much more apparent, and a driving resonance in the bass is now gone.
This is a huge improvement over the Anticable level 2 and Mogami IC for less money!
Thanks so much Grannyring and Mikirob I would usually not listen to someone about a wire and make a change quickly like this but I had a feeling which turned out to be right.
Phil J
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