Short speaker cable recommendation

Cardas makes junpers to any length.  standard is 6" I think.  I use doiuble runs of 10" to my coicident speakers.  two sets of terminals on the back of my pass amps and two sets on the speakers.

Ok, so I couldn't resist overcomplicating it. Since the wire is tinned anyway, I do not see how soldering a set of pure copper spades to the wire would negatively affect the sound. If anything, soldering the tinned wire may provide a better connection to the underlying copper. I convinced myself it will be much easier dealing with spades than trying to twist all those connected double run wires together...and four wires to each amp binding post.

I am going to let them cook for a day and then hear what results. These will be replacing a double run of HT Pro 11+ with hydraulically crimped on Furutech pure copper spades that actually sound great. With the recent changes to my system, I will be (very pleasantly) surprised if the WE wire can make it sound better than it does now. I will let you all know.

WE Star Quad Bi-Wire Speaker Cables

Good for you Oldcar63. You are open minded and that will work to your great benefit. Please let them run for at least 30-50 hours as they will sound closed in and bright at first. They will end up open and so wonderfully natural sounding!

Mikirob and Grannyring I put a order for the belden. I was told it could take 7 to 10 days to receive them . I am looking forward to trying them. I will post my thoughts when they are run in . Also I laughed when you informed about the Cable company prices on the WE-16 guage wire. Thanks again

Second Grannyring on his suggestion; don't over complicate this simple task. Just go naked!

Ok, forget everything you think about tinned and stranded etc.....this wire will destroy past understandings. Really. No connectors is by far the best! Please just use bare wire if possible. Give it all 30 hours before comment!

Hey all,
Just returned from riding my bike across Iowa and am now thinking about putting together some new cables with the WE 16 and 14 awg and Belden 8402 I received just before I left.
My question is whether to solder or crimp - crimping could include either tightening the bare wire in the binding posts or attaching the wire to spades using my hydraulic crimping tool.
The ICs will be soldered to my Furutech FP-601/602 balanced connectors, since there is no crimp option with those connectors but, with the speaker cables, I could either crimp or solder.
Although I like crimped connections for speaker cable I make from bare copper wire, I suspect soldrering is the superior connection for tinned wire, since it should provide a more direct connection between the copper base materials of the wire and the spade. A hand tight crimp through tinned wire is not typically thought to be an optimal connection.
OTOH, tinned wire is typically thought to be inferior to bare copper for audio purposes in every respect, except for resistance to corrosion, so it is interesting how good everyone thinks this wire sounds, particularly since I suspect the "tinning" material of wire this old may have lead in it, and lead has been taboo in the "audiophile" community for several years now (although I have stubbornly continued to use my roll of Cardas Quad Eutechtic solder for all my soldering jobs).
As it stands, I plan to solder all the connections, but I would be interested in hearing from any of you who have tried it both ways.

Grannyring,
Thanks for the info. I'm going to trust that all will work out and I am going to have fun. As I said, I am a novice, will sweat bullets with knees knocking, but it will get done. Thank G-d my brother will be there to hold my hand and rescue me if I make a mistake...he has been doing stereo DIY for 40 years. Best, Rob

I finished putting the WE wire inside my speakers, my outboard crossover
and even inside both my amps! Sublime for sure.

Have fun with your projects!

May try the Arizona caps at $25 per cap. The Jupiter caps are so special I
am dragging my feet on this one. Not sure if I should get the blue or green
Catus. Called Arizona Cap and they were absolutely no help at all. They
have no idea what their caps sound like!

The Jeff Day article is vague at best on how to use both caps in general. It
seems like trial and error for each piece of gear by mixing the two. Not sure
I want to go there.....

Grannyring,
Thank you. I'm going to attempt your suggestion of doubling up the WE 16ga at some point today, plan on a weekend of listening. A side benefit to to me with this WE 16ga and Belden combo is that my wife also think it's the best combo we've ever had, she is really digging the sound now, and very enthused about listening. Like you said above I wish some of our Agon friends would give this combo a go.

Soon I will begin wiring up my speakers! change crossover and capacitor. Then it's Little Mo (Coincident Dynamo 34SE) turn. I'll make the the
capacitor, resistor, and wiring change there as well according to Yazaki-san sage advice. I'll keep you posted. Best, Rob

Where did the original go? Please tell us what you did as we are interested
in your final choice.

Mikirob, thanks for turning us all onto this based on your comments in another thread. You were spot on! Some will not be opened minded enough to believe this and others may think it is just another flavor of the day. Oh my I sure wish every Aphile would try some and learn first hand.

I suppose it is possible some systems and ears would prefer another set of wires. I feel very strongly that the WE16 wire should be doubled up and run with the Belden ICs for the full effect. Others have tried this and feel the same way. I just finished putting the WE wire in my speakers.

Oldcar, get the Belden and it well get better......so much so you may cry!

Oldcar63 I have been around the block a few times and the Belden is blowing me away like nothing else

Phil,
I am so glad that you find these cables as engaging as I do. As Grannyring stated, "this combo is simply as good as it gets," is true to my ears. I had a good hearty laugh when I received an email from the Cable Company informing me that Shun Mook was selling Western Electric speaker cables for over $3,000. I'm giddy thinking about that one.

The real hero here to thank is Shirokazu Yazaki-san who brought this wire to the attention of Jeff Day (reviewer extraordinaire for Positive Feedback and 6 Moons) and Jeff Day brought this WE wire to our attention via his Wordpress Blog: Jeffsplace@me.com that Grannyring kindly linked. You should read Day's blog, most people could learn quite a lot. Best, Rob

Just wanted to thank Grannyring for the recommendation on the WE 16 guage wire. I had purchased enough to make 8 ft quad star biwire pair. I only have around 30 hrs on them and I am flat out amazed of the improvements in all area's . I had to juggle some interconnects and tubes to get the proper balance which was easy to do. The sound my system is now producing is absolutely terrific it mirrors all the praise of everyone on this thread. I have not ordered the belden I/C yet because I have a hard time believing it can improve on what I am hearing now . Maybe with 100 or so hrs I might try the belden to experiment, I just wanted to give you props for the information you put out.

Welcome Phil. This combo is simply as good as it gets. Astounding value.

One final post to tout the benefits of the Belden 8402 with the WE16ga.

I can not believe how much bigger the sound stage got and the definition top to bottom is outstanding, everything drenched in musical nuance and harmonics.

Things like hearing the skin of the drums or a guitar strumming are much more apparent, and a driving resonance in the bass is now gone.

This is a huge improvement over the Anticable level 2 and Mogami IC for less money!

Thanks so much Grannyring and Mikirob I would usually not listen to someone about a wire and make a change quickly like this but I had a feeling which turned out to be right.

Phil J

Thanks Rob, found the reference to balanced 8402.

Short and Fat (big gauge) works best.

Sonic quality of speaker cable is speaker dependent.

This old study is still true.

https://passlabs.com/articles/speaker-cables-science-or-snake-oil

Yes, the Belden is easy to make balanced. Refer to the Day blog above.
See Grannyring link. The Link in the Day Blog gets you to the Belden seller.
They can do the balanced terminations for you. But you should read the
Jeff Day Blog with all comments from respondents as well as Yazaki-san,
the builder of the SPEC amp who recommended the WE16ga and Belden
8402. We owe Yazaki-san a huge thank you! Best, Rob

The mogami is not nearly as good though it is a good value still.

Is Belden 8402 usable balanced? My main inter-connect (between pre and power) is balanced, standard three pin. Doesn't that require co-ax cable? Is the Belden two-conductor with shield?

Grannyring,
I'm so happy you are enjoying this combo of wire as much as I am. I keep pinching myself, thinking Day and Yazaki-san helped me find the sound I was looking for for cheap $ after all these years of spending $$$$ for wire that can't match this combo of WE and Belden. It's just amazing!

Listening to my system today was a real joy. I continue to shake my head on the money I had spent in the past on wire. For $150 in total for wire, my system has never sounded better. I did not think this wire would better my wonderful cables. To say I am still shocked is an understatement. I have tried other highly touted griant killers and they never made it to that status, these do!

Mogami 3103

I see, I did not understand and wanted to make sure, thank you
for everything! I placed the order and I look forward to
hearing the Belden!

They will build them for you. Are you wanting to build your own? If not, just order the set from the site and they will build them for you with all the right parts etc...they follow the Jeff Day blog recipe.

I looked for the special solder to no avail, can you tell me what to ask for?

thank you again

Here is the link. They build them just like the Jeff Day site and expert amp
builder suggest using the same Switchcraft connectors and special solder.
Need to buy two for a set of two. Takes about 4 days to make a set and
ship out.

They take about 36 hours to settle in. You will be very pleased.

http://btpa.com/IC8402-XX.html

I sold $1000 Kimber for these and my sound is better to my ears and taste.

I can not find the 8402 online except for ebay 300ft

can you help? also where do you buy the RCA jacks you use?

thanks so much

Phil

I have heard the Mogami and the 8402 will amaze you! No kidding. I have built Mogami ic's and speaker cables in the past and the Belden is special or should I saw more special :)

I will consider (and look into) the Belden 8402 but I am pretty darn happy with Mogami 2534 mic cable and Neutrik pro fi ends especially for $58.

Yes, I doubled up on the runs and when combined with the Belden IC the net result is awesome. The sum of the two together is greater than the individual greatness of each.

This has to be one of the greatest all time audio buys. How could this have been such a hidden gem all these years! The Belden 8402 and the WE16ga must be heard together for the full greatness to be heard. I also feel two runs of the WE16 per pole sounds better than one run. More body and weight with all of the same layering and beauty.

I already have my WE 16ga and it sounds very big, seductive
and nuanced/expressive, even though they are not broken in

(I do not have a cable cooker)

Grannyring you nailed it: "just honest to goodness beautiful
sounding cable."

Mikirob thanks for your input as well

this may be the best deal I ever got in this crazy hobby

OP - buy some (if you can find it, they look sold out)

Yazaki-san, in Day Blog said same, especially if you have a run beyond 4
meters if I remember correctly. I believe he stated 16ga better up to slightly
longer than 3 meters.

I emailed tajacobs and asked him if the 14g WE wire had the same tinned copper strands as the 16g, only more of them. His answer was yes. The 14g might be better for less sensitive speakers and/or longer runs, don't you think?

thanks Mikirob the link provided was sold out but he had another link that looked the same and I bought some.

fingers crossed

it sounds like an amazing deal and I can return my Anti Cable

;^)

Philjolet,
I just checked the link and it still works. The eBay seller of the Western Electric 16ga wire is named tajacobs. Legit, that is where Grannyring, I, and the Day Blog responders are buying. The only other sellers I am aware of are in Japan or Taiwan.

Grannyring now you got me looking at the WE16g but the link you gave above expired. Can you recommend another source?

thanks

Grannyring,
I'll have to defer to you about all the DIY. I have NO experience. But I'm willing to purchase both the Jupiter and Arizona Cactus, Green/Blue and compare/contrast. I trust I can call on you, Jetrexpro, as well as others on Agon as I venture further. Best, Rob

Back to the original poster.....did you decide on a cable? I sure hope you try the WE16a for less than the cost of shipping other branded speaker cables :)

Yeah, went to that site and cannot find the caps in question. Need to make a call it seems. I bet the builder has not heard the Jupiter or Duelund caps, but it would be an interesting comparison. The builder seems to use the Arizona caps like a chef makes a recipe. A little of this cap and a little of that cap flavor to suit...... Hard to know which one cap to use in a coupling position or output position. The blue or green Catus? He uses both to taylor the sound recipe.

I found the Jupiter caps to be the most neutral of all caps and just reveals the music wonderfully.

Here is a link to Arizona Capacitors: http://www.arizonacapacitors.com/about-us.php

They are located in Tucson, Arizona.

Grannyring,
I think the Arizona caps are slightly less expensive, for some reason $42.00 sticks in my brain. I'm willing to bet Yazaki-san has tried nearly every decent Cap from NOS to modern.

I have Vandersteen 5A's with Ayre electronics. My favorite cable is Wireworld...I know because I had the Gold in my system and compared them against the top Anti-Cables. In truth, the Wireworld had a wonderful sense of ease that the Anti's couldn't deliver, however the tonality, the dynamics, ...all of it sounded EXACTLY the same. If I hadn't tried them both, I would never expect these results. Anti's have a money back guarantee.

Mikirob, the Jupiter caps are special, very special. Not sure about the
Arizona caps? Just not sure. I have done MUCH cap rolling and the
Jupiters come out on top. I bet Yazaki-San has not even tried them to be
honest. If the Arizona caps are cheap enough I will compare.

I will be using the WE16a wire inside my amps also. Not ready for the
Arizona cap thing yet as I have to say I seriously doubt the Arizona cap is
as good as the Jupiter.

Mitch2, I am replacing and have replaced the Jupiter wire you mention as
this stuff is much better sounding. Hard to believe...I know.

I would not try to do anything special in terms of doubling up the gauge
etc... Until you simply try one run for positive and one for negative. Do this
first! I am not sure combining for increased gauge will help or hurt!

All of the positive comments are based on using just one 16ga run for each
leg. More is not always better.

Mikirob I do not know much about wire but here is a link

I hope this helps

http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/1585A.pdf

I was initially going to install Jupiter capacitors in my redo of the Coincident Dynamo integrated, but now will go with the Arizona. I am likely to also replace the Nomex internal wiring with the WE 16ga?

I have some pretty good NOS Rectifiers, Mullard 5AR4 from 60s, Phillips, that Upscale is pushing, Grant Fidelity Black Treasure 274B, Mullard Fat Bottle coke shape from 40s/50s (saving for when I get the Franks), amongst others in my tube stash, but I am willing to go with any of the Yazaki-san recommendations and test it out, compare/contrast. This would be a lot more fun if NOS tubes were in line with the WE and Belden wire cost.