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Separates to tube integrated

I have been on an audio hiatus for a few years, like 10+. I am seriously considering selling my separate amp and pre-amp for a tube integrated. I want to keep it simple and classic. I currently have a Classe CA-151 amp and Classe SSP-25 preamp (used to have a surround system which is why I have the SSP25). I don't do video anymore and no vinyl so a phono stage is not part of the decision. In my past systems I have owned some tubed Pre-amps from Conrad Johnson, Audible Illusions. I have always enjoyed the sound of tubes but never owned a tube amp. These days I want to keep it simple and straight forward, pure 2 channel audio, mostly CD's and a streamer of some sort in the near future. I am currently running the B&W CDM9NT speakers. Was looking at a tube integrated like either the Primaluna EVO 300 or Rogue Cronus Magnum. Again, no phono stage needed just an audio source or 2. Based on a lot of the customer reviews I have read I am leaning on the EVO 300. Do I stand to lose any by going to an integrated? I am guessing from what I have read I will actually be gaining. I am trying to find one in my area to listen to but with this whole virus thing its tough and nobody has one anywhere in my region. Thoughts?
128x128jmphotography
17 responses Add your response
shahram
115 posts
 
Primaluna EVO 300/400 is a really good choice. You could save some change and get the previous rev Dialogue Premium Integrated. Luxman also has an Integrated LX-580. The Rogue Audio gets good reviews as well. I would just figure out what kind of sound signature you are looking for. The Rogue and Luxman are more on the neutral side and the Primaluna on the warmer side.

...I can’t speak to what you will gain or lose in terms of sound quality. Lots of debate on that.
soix
8,822 posts
 
Tubes is not the first word that jumps to mind with B&W.  Not that it’s not possible, but Bowers speakers are one of those that seem to like some power to fully perform.  And I certainly get the desire to put some tubes in the signal path, but if it’s me I’d look to a hybrid design with a tubed pre and solid state amp section.  Pathos makes gorgeous looking and sounding integrateds, and the Unison Research Unico series would also be worth a good look.  Check out Upscale Audio for both, and they offer a 60-day, in-home trial that is particularly nice in our current environment.  Hope this helps, and best of luck in your search. 
edcyn
1,876 posts
 
I simplified my life a good while ago by replacing my Electrocompaniet PreAmp/Quicksilver Mono power amps combo with a Primaluna Prologue Integrated.  Have never looked back.
jmphotography's avatar
jmphotography OP
161 posts
 
Thanks! I like warm sound, natural, inviting. Soix, I would agree with you on the B&W and solid state, however I’m thinking long term and the B&W may not be long term for me. 
shahram
115 posts
 
You can also look at Vincent audio for a Hybrid design. The one below is really well reviewed. It's class A solid state with a tube preamp.

https://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/tubeline/sv-700.html
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scotttubenut
14 posts
 
I just sold a PrimaLuna Evo 300 integrated, and it was a sweet amp! If I hadn't recently gotten into DIY SET and couldn't afford to run two systems, I would never have let the Evo 300 go. I used it to good effect with a pair of Dynaudio Excite X38's and the Evo had no problem driving them at 4 ohms and 88 db. One feature of the Evo 300 that I really enjoyed was its ability to drive headphones, as I listen about equally to speakers and to headphones. Unlike many integrateds that run a separate op-amp based circuit to drive headphones, PrimaLuna diverts the speaker outs to a voltage divider to drive the headphones, so you get the full benefit of the tubes. I purchased the PrimaLuna after having used a series of solid state integrateds and separates and will probably never go back to full SS. Tubes are it for me for the foreseeable future.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Do I stand to lose any by going to an integrated? I am guessing from what I have read I will actually be gaining.

That's right. At least if you go with a Raven. https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/nighthawk-mk3-tube-amplifier/
hilde45's avatar
hilde45
4,838 posts
 
The Raven integrated is 20 wpc and $3k. Quicksilver has a 20 wpc integrated for $2k. Both good reputations.  Not sure why Raven is better. I listened to the QS and it drove some pretty resistant Dynaudio bookshelves very well and had a lovely sound. 
elliottbnewcombjr
5,239 posts
 
I own, so can highly recommend Cayin Equipment quality and tube sound. Designed in Germany, made in China, a brick s...house. I took the bottom off when I got it, very impressive inside.

I bought a used A88T, It lets you run 6550’s or KT88’s, which is nice, it came with 6550’s, very nice, tried and prefer KT88’s, just slightly different. Optional Pre-Amp Pass Thru for future changes to your system

this review helped me decide.

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/cayin/a88t.html

VAS, USA Distributor, is highly respected.

Consider remote control features when you look (they are not always mentioned, you may need to dig for answers).

A88T has a remote, input switching (who cares?), volume remote which I must have, and remote triode/ultra linear switch, easy to hear instant difference while listening (I and everyone of my friends definitely prefer ultra-linear).

No remote balance, which is a must for me to tweak the imaging a bit on ’a bit off’ tracks. I get that via Chase RLC-1

Also, any modern tube amp, check for external bias control, and bias meters, I wish I had that. My early version lacks that, but it had 16 ohm speaker taps which I need.
ryder
1,686 posts
 
Another vote for the Luxman. The integrateds are pretty good and are capable of sounding better than costlier pre/power options out there.
tuberist's avatar
tuberist
951 posts
 
Soix made a good rec to try Upscale Audio because of their generous return policy. I am a PL Dialogue Premium integrated owner and have been into tube amplification for decades. I've owned BAT, C.J., and others. PL works for me because of its user friendly engineering and it also sounds really special to me. I've always enjoyed rolling tubes and this piece is designed to feed that habit. So, the B&Ws might be ok with tube amplification but they do have a power hungry rep (I've never owned them)
avanti1960
1,411 posts
 
sounds like you want to change it up for change's sake, some new toys.  
rarely do new toys satisfy long term if the sound quality takes a back step.
separates are a clear upgrade from an integrated amp because of their capabilities- namely power, drive and dynamics.  
your amp and speakers are decent so a good sonic upgrade would be a nice new preamp- especially a tube based preamp.  Preamps drive the majority of the sonics and will change your overall sound.   
The Rogue Audio RP-5 (or RH-5 without phono) offer excellent refined, clear smooth sound and would be nice choices.  
Down the road you could add a smaller high quality amp- e.g. the Benchmark AHB2 or some High Powered Class D designs from Bel Canto or Rogue Audio.  
A tube integrated could sound good but the power and drive will take a back step even with new more efficient speakers.  
facten
2,764 posts
 
Might want to take a look at Line Magnetic integrated amps, excellent build quality and very musical , especially if you do some tube rolling. I have the 518IA which is now called the 845IA . Here's a link to the LM line-up should you want to check them out
https://www.line-magnetic.eu/en/products-line-magnetic-en/integrated-tube-amplifier-line-magnetic-en
As an aside Tone Imports is the US Distributor (I am not affiliated other tan as a customer)
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,886 posts
 
Consider a Rogue hybrid integrated amp like Sphinx or Pharoah with B&W.

Generation 3 Sphinx is out and getting some rave reviews.  
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,313 posts
 

Consider a hybrid from Pathos or Unison.

Or a tube from Octave.

jmphotography's avatar
jmphotography OP
161 posts
 
@avanti1960 you do have a point. I am happy with the Classe amp, drives the B&W's nicely. The preamp is something I bought when I had a surround system, so maybe just a nice tubed pre will give me the best of both worlds. The RP5 is a little out of my price range, but I will explore the tube preamp world. See, that is why I come here for suggestions. 
soix
8,822 posts
 
If the B&Ws are not long-term keepers I’d be hesitant to choose an amp now, especially if you like tubes.  Other speakers could open up a lot of other amp options for you.  Just my $0.02 FWIW. 
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