A non-working model of the long rumored Schiit URD CD Transport has started showing at hifi shows. The device was shown in the Schiit Booth at T.H.E Show in California a week or so ago.
I was going to get the URD, but diverged and got a GeerFab Audio D.BOB ($799). I have a Oppo BDP-83 for the transport. I think I paid $250 for the used SACD/CD player.
I got the D.BOB today and have played SACDs and CD's via the Oppo into both my Benchmark DAC3B and Schitt Yggi+ Less is More DACs. My SACD frame of reference is a Sony SCD-1 modded by Vacuum State to Level 5+. That player was amazing but died months ago after 20+ years.
The setup I put together today is even better than the Sony one, especially with the Yggi+. I am going to write up some more about it on another thread about SACD transports.
mooglie: You have again brought up some good points! The URD does output a +5vdc from the USC C output socket when the USB output is selected. As to the Denafrips DAC; since they have created their own processing code for USB, there is a question of compatibility that needs to be investigated. I suspect that the high end audio world is still in an uncertain place in regards to USB compatibility (fixed standards) as well as questions regarding the I squared S output (which I believe has no standard at all). This is turning into another learning experience!
fastcat95,
Perhaps "picky" is not the best word. The user manual states to try non-audiophile cables, free of adapters, that meet the USB 2.0 specs. I can't say what all that means as the USB 2.0 spec is 650 pages long. However, the spec indicates a 4 wire connection and shield. Contact 1 is VBUS - the power. I think that some audiophile cables may not use the VBUS. So, I take the Urd user manual to say the cable requires all the connections.
I think the connection issues for some folks may have been where people have been using whatever cable they had lying around, and/or using adapters. On SuperBest Audio Friends I see one fellow has been using an $8 Amazon cable successfully.
Another potential issue here is you state that you are using a Denafrips Pontus DAC. The Urd user manual states the DAC must be UAC2 compliant. Denafrips specs for your unit state use of a "Proprietary USB Audio Solution via STM32F446 Advanced AMR Based MCU." It appears Denafrips wrote their own USB controller code. Is their controller UAC2 compliant? Are you using their latest driver?
The final issue is that you say the Potus USB requires 5 V to trigger the reciever. Does the Urd supply that? That's a question I would ask Schiit. I know they did extensive compatibility testing over an extended period of time. Did you ask them if the Urd had been tested with your DAC?
On the Urd, do you get the broken USB icon on the Urd or an exclamation point?
mooglie: Thanks for the cable input! You mention the USB cable connection between the URD and Schiit DAC as being "picky". Can you comment further on this? I have a URD feeding a Pontus II 12th, and a cheap USB C cable I tried did nothing, although I learned (from Denafrips) that there needs to be a +5 vdc from the transport to trigger their USB receiver. Have a pending question to Schiit on the +5 vdc availability.
There's a couple of reviews for the Kimber Kable on the web. One on Hi-Fi+ by Alan Sircom and the other in German on Fairaudio. I'd say I agree with both of those reviews for the Kimber Kable. A lot of people on this site have used the DH Labs cable. So, you should be able to find many opinions on it.
The Kimber cable breaks in very quickly, and sounds good from the get-go. The DH Labs cable may need an extended burn-in time. The presentation, to me, was a bit lean in the midrange and bass. I didn't want to use the Urd to burn in the DH Labs for 200 to 500 hours, therefore I picked up the Kimber Kable. I kept the DH Labs cable as I may use it as an input cable somewhere down the road. Also, I may try to burn it in more on my PC, or loan it to a friend to burn in.
The DH Labs cable has a bit more air and sparkle up top. That's somewhat expected being a silver plated cable. The Kimber sounds more like very good copper, if you know what that means. A bit warmer and organic toned, with a lovely midrange. A bit more grounded and meaty, but not too slow sounding.
Cables being so highly subjective and dependent on your system build and personal preferences, I can't say which one you'd prefer. The Kimber is several times more expensive. Not that that always matters. But, the Kimber is using a very high purity, all copper design, which typically yields a more coherent presentation, in my experience.
Both companies offer returns.
There's not many USB-C, USB 2.0, audio grade cables out there. Oyaide Neo has a moderate priced cable that might be worth investigating. DH Labs also has a less expensive cable. Audioquest and Wireworld also have several cables available.
What specific USB cables have worked with your URD? I have had issues with that type of connection, and have an inquiry in to Schiit about the issue. My unit now has about 135 hours on it, and sounds great! No problems with it other than the USB connection. And, yes, build quality is very solid.
I know the first run of Urds was to be rather small - perhaps 250. I believe those may have sold out quickly and a second run is planned. Perhaps there are some units DOA, but I have read of only one user with this problem on this forum. Outside this forum the biggest users are on Head Fi and Superbest Audio friends forums. I've read of some USB connection issues there, but no DOA units.
My Urd arrived just fine - not DOA. It works fine, too. The USB-C connection is a bit picky about cables. Perhaps some people are having issues getting a proper compatible UAC2, USB 2.0 cable? Also, it helps to completely read the user manual before using the unit to understand proper operation of the unit. I initially had problems getting the Urd to connect and function properly until I read user manual.
I have had an Yggdrasil since they first came out and it has been completely reliable. The build quality of both the Urd and Yggdrasil are very high, in my opinion. Schiit offers a 5 year warranty on the Urd with 2 years on the Stream Unlimited transport.
New units DOA. Schiit stopped shipping. Looks like they rushed with that Urd.
Sorry guys I just can’t resist it.
The only Schiit I ever took…ownership of, was the Mani phono amp. It was a cheap piece of Schiit that was noisy and had good amounts of distortion. I sold it and that was my first and last Schiit.
Sorry to hear your unit was DOA. Sort of strange since Schiit says they run units for a day before shipping. I wonder if the few issues I have heard about are centered in the Stream Unlimited drive / electronics board, or the Schiit boards? I have had no issues with my unit (now over 120 hours of play).
The replacement unit that I received was DOA, the CD drawer would not open. Schiit sent a RA for the unit along with an email stating that "we are working our best on fixing the issues with the URD". Per their website they are now not shipping until October. Really a shame, waited 2 years for it.
I now have about 120 hours on my URD. No problems reading CD disks (or CDRs). It did not sound too great right out of the box, but now is sounding really good. I have so far been using the SPDIF coaxial output exclusively, feeding a Denefrips Pontus II 12th.
This transport needs between 100 and 150 hours of burn in before making any serious observations. I have not noticed anything that sounds out of balance, or an emphasis in any particular aspect of the sound. At this point I like what I am hearing. This looks like a very solid transport, and I will eventually begin listening via the USB connection to see if there are further sonic gains.
I have two transports - an Atoll DR200 Signature and now the Schiit Urd. I’ve used the Atoll transport the past few years, connecting to an Yggdrasil OG (now Yggy+ LIM), with a Jorma SPDIF cable.
I purchased the Urd as it is my understanding is that this is Mike Moffat’s attempt at creating an improved interface – the Unison USB which uses the USB Word clock to synchronize the flow of data from transport to DAC.
For the Urd I am using a Kimber Select Cu USB-C to USB-B cable. I believe that people are going to find out that different USB cables sound different. I would caution the use of adapters, as I believe they would degrade the sound. I tried another USB cable that uses silver plated copper, but it sounded a bit lean to my liking. And ,I did not want to wait through a long burn in period for it to open up. The Kimber USB cable broke in quickly and is a very nice sounding, coherent, cable.
The Urd through USB sounds better than the Urd or Atoll SPDIF. The soundstage is stable and natural sized. Imaging is a bit more precise than the SPDIF connection. Resolution, pitch, dynamics, PRAT, noise level and decay are all very, very good. The sound is fluid and effortless. I can’t find any real faults. The Unison USB definitely sounds “more analog” than the SPDIF connection.
I also briefly listened to the Urd SPDIF using the Jorma cable. Compared to the Atoll, the differences are less than the Unison USB. I didn’t critically listen to compare the two, but noted the PRAT jumped out as a difference. The Stream based Urd sounds a bit more relaxed than the somewhat more energetic Teac based Atoll. With SPDIF, these two transports are closer in performance, and one might prefer one over the other.
The build quality on the Urd appears to be very good. The functions on the Urd are very, very basic – Play, Stop, Eject, Forward and Reverse. The remote works well. I found the Urd to be somewhat quirky about having the function buttons pushed too quickly, and can lock up, causing the need to toggle the power switch. Once I learned this behavior, I have been more deliberate, and no longer experience this problem
I believe the Urd represents a very good value for the performance level it achieves. I’d highly recommend an audition to anyone considering a new transport.
I am at the 70 hour mark with my URD break in. Only the URD was changed in my system (same coax cable - SPDIF). The unit did not sound too good right out of the box, but has settled in significantly at this point. The major thing I am hearing (compared to the previous transport) is that there appears to be greater resolution, clarity, and a sense of greater illumination in the presentation of the music. My previous transport evoked a more "burnished" sound quality that had a slightly softer focus, and a presentation that had less illumination (as if the lights were turned down a bit in a room). I was very accustomed to the previous sound quality, so this change, though not great, was initially mistaken for a sense of "digital glare", but continued listening convinces me that this is not what is happening. There may be further change in the sound as I approach 100 - 150 hours of break in. Would love to hear other's impression on their URD.
Break-in for a digital signal is something I can’t comprehend 100% I suppose it’s real so no direct argument here. But, 1’s and 0’s going to an already broken in DAC?
I received an URD on 7/24. No problems reading CD disks (or CDRs). It did not sound too great right out of the box, but now that I have 35 hours of break in, it is starting to sound really good. I suspect that it will get better still by the 100 hour mark. I have so far been using the SPDIF coaxial output exclusively, feeding a Denefrips Pontus II 12th.
My experience with the break in issue does not surprise me; similar things have happened with other components of various manufacture. It will be interesting to see just how good the URD gets when it is fully broken in. If it comes within 90% or better of the Jays Audio unit, I would say it is a bargain. I will post further when I reach 100 hours.
I received an Urd and have been having problems with the transport recognizing disks. About half of the time it will work properly then I have to reset it by unplugging. I tried a Moon Audio Silver Dragon USB C to B cable (which works fine from another source directly into the DAC) but I kept getting the broken USB icon on the transport. I used an AES/EBU to connect and it does sound very good. I have a Jays CDT2 Mark 3 which does sound better but not superior, I would say that the Schiit is about 85% of the Jays. My DAC is a Denafrips Terminator II 12th.
The Schii tUrd could arrive early in the morning tomorrow (maybe a lot earlier than that with Miralax 😁).....these goofballs and their product names...
jriggy: I worked in Acoustics & vibration research & development for 33 years. The Pro 8 housing is a very hollow block of aluminum (most of it has been CNC machined out). The housing (now with thin aluminum walls) would still be subject to resonant vibration issues (no internal damping applied). The only real advantage (a very mild one) is that possibly the alignment of drive parts will be a bit more precise in the CNC milled box. As to the carbon fiber, it is very light and stiff, but is used in a way that is likely to have no impact as far as vibration or resonant energy. And carbon fiber is not noted for any superior vibration damping characteristics (it is actually very low) There have been discussions at DIYaudio.com about the deceptive elements of the Pro 8 aluminum drive; the earlier Phillips "PRO" drives that had a die cast enclosure (not entirely unlike the Pro 8) were similarly deceptive in that it could be perceived that there were "superior" components inside, which turned out not to be quite the case.
@fastcat95ah ok. But IMO the solid aluminum block and carbon fiber housing of the Pro 8 drive, as used in the RS2T or the $30k Gryphon Transport, is the significant factor. But obviously costs more for that performance. But the basic Pro 8 drive and functions here for $1200 from Schiit will surely still be good price to performance.
The URD actually uses the same basic drive as the CD Pro 8. The Pro 8 is different in that the drive/sled assembly is housed in a CNC machined aluminum block, as opposed to molded composite frame. The electronics/servo board in the URD is the CD88, while some use the CD84 (Project). There is basically no difference between the boards, other than the form factor. For most practical purposes, the URD drive is more or less equal, and I note that the excellent Bryston BCD3 ($4500) uses the same Stream Unlimited drive and electronics board as the URD. For most high end manufactures, there are few drives and laser head assemblies to choose from. Many (if not most) are using the Stream Unlimited drives. Only with the few very expensive CD transports (like the Teac Esoteric) do you get what could be considered a true "high end" CD drive that is able to fully maximize data extraction from a spinning CD disc. Most CD drives and laser heads have gone the way of "cheap" compared to what once was the case.
There seem to be more and more transports (mostly Redbook playback) out there in the 3K and below level. As far as the URD, it is the cheapest transport to use the Stream Unlimited drive and support electronics, which seem to have the best sonics. Time will tell as to whether Moffat has produced something that approaches the sonics of more expensive transports (like the Project, or Jay's Audio CD2 Mk III). If it does, it could be seen as a bit of a bargain. Stay tuned....
Coralkong I agree, there are plenty of transport under 1k, my Yamaha s1000 has sacd And the transport is excellent. my Cambridge transport is very good and reliable.Mike Moffat is also a big part of Theta digital Dacs and transport.He knows this stuff.
That's kind of pricey for a Redbook only transport. I'd like to demo one, but it would have to blow me away for $1299. Sooooo many other options out there for similar money.
To me the URD is an very interesting CD transport and it is certainly well priced, for everyone looking for a serious performing machine with great interest in just playing CD’s, like me.
That said, the only things that bothers me are:
- the size of it, as I like normal sized components
- the display, too small
- the design, as it looks like a regular dvd player
- the small type USB plugs, as they can hold more than extra light cables.
A few weeks ago I have bought an Audiolab 9000 CDT (extremely pleased with it) but I would love the chance to test the URD.
I will sell some stuff later this year and buy another CD transport (as I have several dacs) but unfortunately it will not be the URD, for the reasons listed before.
Schiit used to offer a product called Etr... get it, Schiit Etr? So childish, but OK. I have one and it served one purpose... a DDC.
So, you input USB and get S/PDIF and maybe an AES-EBU connection output. The Etr had Coax and Toslink outputs. If you had an old non-USB DAC, or just preferred S/PDIF this product was for you. Lot's of folks make DDCs now a days.
Schiit stopped making the Etr when Unison USB came out and they get LOTs of requests for a new Etr with Unison USB. They claim they don't need to make one, just use Unison USB and you're all set.
So, this product sort of does the job and Stoddard even called it a DDC in the Head-HiFi description of the products creation.
My understanding is that Mike Moffat at Schiit, their co-owner and designer of their digital gear, strongly prefers their Unison USB over coax and optical connections. Many DACs, including Schiit's most expensive units, have only one USB input. That means that if you want to have both a streamer and a CD player in your system, you'd have to relegate one of the player outputs to something other than USB. Using their new Urd CD player would allow you to use USB for all of the player outputs -- the CD player and two other USB out devices.
In my case, I took the CD player out of my system a long time ago and have no desire to return, but I can see how some users would appreciate the options offered by Schiit's approach. As they say, YMMV.
Maybe it is lost on me but I do not understand the appeal of the USB input function, pasted via the Schiit site:
Here’s where things get interesting: you can also connect two USB devices to the Urd. Yes, Urd has two USB inputs! Then, choose what you want to listen to—CD, USB1, or USB2—using the standard remote control. Now, you can run CDs when you feel like it, and stream when you want convenience, all with a DAC with a single USB input.
My DAC, and I feel like most every DAC that I have seen or is available (including nany of or most of Schiit's own products), has a USB input, several Coax, optical, and maybe AES connection. I plug in a streamer and CD player to the DAC, and used to plug a TV into it also, and could switch those inputs via its remote. So to me, most DACs out there already solve this problem that Schiit is suggesting is a value-add of this product.
Yes, the URD is out! One of the reasons for the lengthy development period (maybe a GOOD thing to work out bugs) has been covid, and material shortages. I believe that SOL went away because of high assembly demands and issues with the sources of machined parts (Schiit does not do machining). And Schiit has had some delays getting the drive mechanism. The mechanism and support electronics is made by Stream Unlimited, who make the best CD drives short of very expensive ($$$$) custom designs. So this transport will not go away because Schiit is a small company, or because they are lacking in mechanical ability (the drives are made elsewhere). If it does go away, it would likely be due to poor sales or sonics that fall short (from Moffat???). In addition to having the Stream Unlimited drive & electronics, the URD has 2 transformers, linear regulation, (4 !!!) 32 bit microprocessors, and a proprietary Unison USB output solution, as well as USB hub functions. The URD is easily the least expensive CD transport to use the Stream Unlimited drive system. It may turn out to be a bargain, and with a 5 year warranty.
I wouldn't need the usb feature so it doesn't interest me. It's been in the works for a long time w/ supply chain problems, especially the transport mechanism they use.
I wonder if this product will eventually go the way of their SOL turntable. As a small company, I wonder if mechanical products is their forte.
The Urd is listed on Schiit's site as of this morning, 7/12/23.
I was considering picking one up, however the list price is $1299, which is $1000 more than I was considering worth spending considering the amount of CD playing I do. It also has many functions related to USB which I personally do not find use for.
I am waiting for it. I have little interest in a CD player, but the URD is supposed to have USB pass-through (with USB-C connectors, unfortunately, as there are not many audiophile USB-C cables). Then it sends out the USB through Schitt's implementation using Unison. When matched with the Unison USB input in their DACs, this might be a significant improvement. Time will tell.
I would more interested in a little box that would take in non-Unison USB and output Unison USB, but I have not heard plans for something like that.
I think the URD will come to market. Several reasons. One is that there seems to be a renewed interest in high performing but somewhat reasonably priced CD transports, which explains the units from Cambridge, Audio Lab, Shanling, and Project. Another is the invested time and effort that Schiit has put into the engineering of working prototype units, which will also double as USB Unison hubs. It is also known that Covid slowed down the progress on several fronts. And there has been the issue of obtaining parts (like the drives they are using). Since Schiit has many products (and issues) to deal with, I would not expect them to make the URD a priority, and hurry it to market. I intend to remain patient and see if it does show up at least by early Fall.
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