Rockport Atria II or Magico A5
I did see your post about picking up the Atrias, which I why I thought I'd ask about the improvements you've experienced having lived with them a while now. Glad you're enjoying them and appreciate your insight. The K3s were my first jump into higher end speakers as well.
Always been curious about trying tubes too. Most likely having a tube pre and solid state amplification at some point. |
@christianb5s4 This is an older post. I’ve since moved from Kanta 3 (like you I see very little about this fine speaker online) to Atria ii’s. K3s we’re my first high end flop stander (after Harbeth m30.2 with HSU subs) and I enjoyed them while I had them with PS Audio BHK 300 and pre. I enjoyed them very much The Rockports (with D’Agostino Progression integrated) were a significant step up to my ears. Better voice separation and imaging. Although it’s hard to make a direct comparison since I changed electronics at the same time. I would still have the Atria’s had I not decided to go in an entirely different direction with Tannoys and hybrid/tubes. As between the Magico and Rockport, I found the Rockport more cohesive and musical - less “audiophile” sounding. Hope this helps. |
@cantorgale I read through this with great interest as I also have Kanta 3s and rarely see people post about them, despite being very good to my ears.
I'm curious about your experience of what improvements were brought with your new speakers versus the Kantas? And if you felt the Kantas were lacking in particular areas? Would be great to learn about that in case of my future plans to switch speakers. |
i got this........ https://kodi.bio/ |
Look at the new Sonor Audio Claro 10.2 Speakers too they might be the best value on the market right now ! They replaced their Reference JBL M2’s with these new Sonor Audio Claro 10.2’s ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKQMvA0BWgw More about these Claro 10.2’s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-8oRQbUWNc How they make these Claro 10.2's ! |
So, I will add this insight, even though this is Audiogon. ***I am a dealer - owner of Liquid HiFi ***** I think that it is important to find a dealer who will work with you to properly setup and properly equip the selected speaker to perform at it's best. Whether you choose Rockport, Wilson, Magico, Stenheim, YG or other - the speakers will only perform at their best with proper electronics and often overlooked aspects liked grounding and network optimization. Otherwise you are only hearing a fraction of what you should be for the money you spent on speakers. |
TheA5 Magico are not clinical they are accurate and with a slightly warm character having rebuilding Loudspeakers for years the Mundorf Evo capacitors aluminum oil are pretty tuneful , the Mundorf Ultra Copper foil Resistors are the most accurate in the world , and used in the Loudspeaker purifiers purifiers ,vs any in the world ! and Mundorf inductors the A5 is a great great , |
I read every one of the above posts with intense interest. What becomes obvious after reading them all is that the extraordinary differences in opinion (e.g., "wonderful imaging" / "terrible imaging") about both speakers is that the speaker is only part of the story -- the rest of one's audio equipment (from sources through cables) and the room in which all this audio equipment is playing are also critically important in determining what one is hearing. Unfortunately, the likelihood of getting multiple dealers (in most cases) to haul hundreds of pounds of very expensive speakers many miles and then spend hours to install them optimally in a prospective customer's home is essentially nil. This makes a purchase (even of Magico A5s or Rockport Atria IIs) a crap shoot, especially if the intent is to upgrade from what is already a "pretty good" set of loudspeakers. What a mess! |
That’s not the case. "I have not shown the in-room response below 45Hz, as this was affected by the presence of subsonic noise from his building’s heating/ ventilation system. This could not be turned off on the morning that I was able to perform the measurements" There are better measurements on Soundstage review (https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/1042-magico-a5-loudspeakers?fbclid=IwAR1u3iW2ntPgFYAKxntjiDjhgcy5V1BUG0kVBglql15l2u_japSj09lDWAU) The bass is phenomenal, as the review mention. |
I was interested in the A5 until seeing the stereophile review and they roll off too early. I'm sure the huge boost in bass sounds impressive, but the overall measurements suggest a speaker that will be more room dependent than most. the persona 7f is close in price, doesn't need much power and sounds amazing. |
I own the A5. After reading this thread, I jumped on an opportunity to audition the Atria at a privet setting. To say that I was unimpressed is an understatement. Hard to tell what people hear, and needless to say proper setup is critical. To my ears, there was nothing the Atria did that impressed me. A much smaller, darker, smeared sound with a noticeable Beryllium glare (this is the same Scan-Speak tweeter used in the first generation Magico S series - which always bothered me). In particular, the bass, which was anemic and soft compared to the A5 ( I just can’t imagine anyone preferring this one 9” woofer to the 3 in the A5). I am sure that the lean bass response can be easily measured, unfortunately, no one has tested the Atria yet. |
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cantorgale, Having compared the Atria 11 and Magico A5, I applaud your decision and question only the inference that the Magico A5's ("speakers in this price range") handle music well. Whereas the Atria 11 seamlessly integrated base, midrange and treble drivers, the Magico's....to my ear...had harsh, 'boxy' sound, with deficient treble clarity, and ample base but annoyingly clipped lower base notes, those defects evident throughout the speakers' volume range. The B&W 802D3's have a 'different' sound from that of the Atria 11's, a more ample and deeper base, plumper midrange, transparent but 'fuller' treble....and like the Atria 11's, 'elegant' and coherent throughout the frequency range. The 802D3's to me compare with the Rockport Avior 11's....with the edge going to the Avior 11's. Your further thoughts on these comparisons are more than welcome. Thanks |
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@cantoegale Thanks for the update and your impressions. I'm considering new speakers and this was really helpful. What electronics were they each driven by? From your description, is it safe to say the Rockport did tone and timbre better than the A5? Did you audition any other brands prior like Wilson or Raidho? |
Spent several hours with the Atria II's and A5's. Porchased the Rockports. Superb musicality, depth of soundstage. Seems most speakers in this price range handle acoustic music extremely well, and rock - depending on your bass preference. The Rockports stood out to me in their handling of orchestal music, which seems a greater challenge for most speakers. Here come the cliches, but I was listening to the music and not the speakers. Also, while the A5 soundstaging may have been more pin-pointed and precise, I felt the Rockports presented a more realistic array of voices - again more like being in the hall than listening to a technically accomplished loudspeaker. Same with chamber music. The Rockport's ability to differentiate between four individual string instruments with similar timber was remarkable, always a challenge. Love my Focal Kanta 3s but this will be a big step up for me. The guys at F1 Audio are a great team! |
Davey, You are 100% correct, it can be costly AND a big hassle if someone buys the wrong speaker for their situation , including budget, room interaction and their personal preferences. Your last paragraph sums up my sentiments and how I operate. With anyone that is looking at Magico or any other 88db-90db or lower than these number efficiency ratings I ALWAYS discuss what the appropriate amplification requirements would be. I would find first find out if what they own is appropriate to drive the new speakers that they are contemplating. If it’s not I would tell them. Then work with them if it’s in their budget to upgrade their amplification to drive the speakers appropriately. Another IMPORTANT variable regarding power is the size of their room AND loud they listen, I have certain customer that literally NEVER turn it up above a 70db listing level in a small room. They might be totally fine with a STRONG 30 WATT PP tube amp for their listing requirements. It really comes down to each customer's overall equation. Besides driving a speaker appropriately also selecting the type of speaker (dynamic, horns, electrostatic, open baffle, ported/non-ported, all ribbon, hydbrids, etc) and the appropriate size of speaker, not too large or too small for their room as well are all considerations when selecting the right speaker for an individual. I personally take all of these variables into account when looking at a customer’s equation and make sure that they understand all of the amplification, appropriate size and type speakers for their room, which will deliver great sonics. Rhapsody probably sells 70% of it’s gear to customer’s who NEED this type of advice. The 30% of "audiophile" customers that we sell to are almost always aware of the variables involved in buying the "right" or "wrong" speaker for their situation. |
Harbeth’s seem to like some power upstream. But, I suppose from Alan Shaw’s perspective 25 watts is enough to drive them. There certainly does seem like there are folks who like to listen at low levels in small rooms, and those that like concert hall levels in large rooms...each will have a different power requirement for their speakers. Used to be back in the day that the saying was: 15 watts will fill a church! While this is probably true, they forgot to say what the church will be filled with, LOL! |
I used to have Harbeth 30.1s and 30.2s - both around 86-87dB sensitivity. One of the major threads in the Harbeth user group is about amp power for the speakers. Interestingly, the owner, Alan Shaw is firm that any amp over 25W will be sufficient. By far though, the consensus within the Harbeth owner's group is min a100w. I wonder if Harbeth is unique in the concern many of its owners give to amp power, or if other owner's groups do as well. |
I think the philosophy of finding the speaker first and then trying to acquire the appropriate amp could lead to an expensive mistake. Take for instance the pricey YG’s ( which I think are excellent speakers), here we have a good example. One of my friends buys the YG’s, which takes up a chunk of his budget ( a BIG chunk); he now attempts to find an amp that works well with these YG’s, given his budget...lets just say that he is more than disappointed at the results!! So, what to do, increase the budget significantly ( not always possible), or live with the result of having an amp/speaker mismatch and not getting what he paid for with the speaker, or lastly--sell the YG’s and get a speaker that will fit his budget and be well driven by an amp that will will allow said speaker to give off its best. Again, the latter is probably an expensive endeavor. OTOH, if one is very familiar with the amp that one is going to be using, then matching up a ’synergistic’ speaker to this amp- will probably result in a more ’appropriate’ result. Bob, I appreciate your thinking--and certainly the more efficient horn type designs are going to be easier to drive than the dynamic/cabinet speaker, BUT shouldn’t the consumer of the YG/Magico/Wilson/Rockport type design be very aware of the drive requirements of these type of speaker...and their limitations? I am sure you are one of the dealers who is going to take this into consideration before suggesting a speaker for purchase ( and educate your customer), but you would be surprised how many dealers out there have no clue about this issue!! ( or, do know, and don’t care anyhow, just so long as they can make the sale!!) |
The only point that I would make regarding my amp suggestions, is that I would say the same pertaining toYG, Wilson, Rockport etc and almost every dynamic/cabinet speaker. Not the same with horns or other higher efficiency speakers or course. So, if low wattage tube amps are ones desire, then more efficient speakers are appropriate. I personally try to find the speaker that I like and then amplify it appropriately vs finding a speaker that matches the types of amps that I want to listen to. But I understand the lure of low wattage SET’s or even low wattage tube PP amps. All personal preference. Many great choices for everyone these days. Happy Holidays! |
@rhapsody Thanks for your information on the required amp to drive the A5. I think this would rule out a lot of great sounding gear. I also believe that very careful amp/speaker matching is going to be required with the A5's, given what you posted. Pity that so many manufacturer's of speakers still require one to acquire a more powerful tube amp or a brute of a ss amp in order to properly drive their design. IME, the more powerful the tube amp...the worse it sounds. YMMV. |
I have home auditioned Magico S3 and dealer demoed S1 and A3 and heard the Rockport and Magicos at the Munich shows. The Magico sound is quite clinical sounding, and they all sounded absolutely spell-binding on electronic music. I really did not warm to the sound of the Magico on acoustic music or classical. In terms of a rather dry sounding analytical speaker I feel the top of the Wilson Benesh range does it better than Magico. The Rockport, by contrast, sounded a lot more musical. Like a Wilson but to my ears, more engaging. However, whilst the Munich show is good, with big rooms, it is not the ideal environment. Avalon and Joseph speakers have that very musical (maybe slightly ’warm’?) but still detailed sound too, and are even further away from the Magico sound. From what I heard Rockport sit more in the middle of this spectrum. |
One thing that is great about this hobby; are the many choices, in speakers or otherwise and all at different price points. I auditioned Magico and Rockport extensively. I also auditioned many Wilson models. The Rockport provide me the sound signature that I was searching for, and thus, my choice. No one brand is the end all be all; buy what pleases you and replace as you want, when you want. Good luck in your search and enjoy in good health, Jose |
I don’t own the Rockports but recently auditioned them. I did not like everything about them but I was very impressed with the separation of voices, imaging and coherence. The found them a bit thin and forward but my audition was at an audio show so maybe not reasonable that they can do everything right in this environment. |
mheinze - you think no one on here has heard the A5? How does that work? Like its some, exclusive, member only speaker? They are in almost every Magico dealers showroom on the planet. It’s their red hot, entry level series speaker. Its a gateway drug not an end of the road speaker. Pump the brakes on the A series ... I’m a Magico fan boy and think the A5 is fantastic but still settle down ... You know this website is Audiogon right? Many of these guys flip speakers quicker then their phones. |
I am actually in a similar position. I went to audition both the A5 and Atria II as a replacement for my Magico S1MKII. I am fortunate in that my local Magico dealer is also the local Rockport dealer. I was able to hear them back to back on the same gear. I auditioned both with a Hegel H390 as i currently have a Hegel H360 this is the closest I could get without bringing in my amp. The dac was a moon cd dac combo that I don’t feel is on the same level as my dCS Bartok but it is still better than the dac that is built into the H390. I have a JL F110v2 paired with my S1MKII and it fills out the bass nicely but I am still left wanting more in terms of scale that the S1 can’t provide. I started off listening to the Atria II and found it to sound more natural than the S1. The bass was obviously deeper and more impactful than on the S1 by themselves. It is really close to what the S1 do with the sub woofer. The resolution was on par or better than the S1. I went on to the A5. The first take away from the A5 is bass. Wow it is deep controlled and impactful. It should be considering that it houses 3 9” woofers. The imaging was not as good as the S1 and is not close to the Atria in my opinion. The off axis listening is also lacking to me. The S1 is incredible in this regard and I was disappointed by the A5. I know that everyone is raving about the new midrange driver but i find that the S1 and Atria were more natural in this regard. I would say that the S1 is more refined than the A5 and is a better looking speaker. The A5 is incredible and could easily wow folks that have never heard a MKII S series speaker. I would choose the S1MKII with a pair of subs over the A5 for my taste. I think that the S series is where the Magico magic really starts. I left and decided to pick-up an additional F110v2 sub. It improved the stage of the S1MKII. At the end of the day I have just placed an order for a new pair of Rockport Atria II. I am hoping that they will be delivered early next week. I will update once they are delivered and in my room. |
I would not use any tube amps under say 90watts P/P. I would not use any SET, even a powerful 50 Watt SET amp. My Jadis 90 Watt PP I-88 integrated lights up the A5s in a fairly large space. I think a good quality 100 Watt SS or 90 Watt PP tube amp, DEPENDING on the size of the room and how loud one listens, would be sufficient for most listeners in regular size rooms. I probably prefer 200 Watt SS into 8 ohms, 400 Watts into 4 ohms. They sound REALLY GOOD with this type of power. No doubt they DO respond to GOOD power. |
If you're serious, you really need to buy both so you can A/B them for a couple of months to insure break-in...sure, this requires a decent hand truck and good audio memory, but it can be made easier by installing a set of dual small guage rail tracks maybe bought from a film production gear company. This is the only way to decide between these speakers...utterly worth it. |
Those speakers are no better then yours. They will just be a little different is all. Sure, maybe one blends with your room or DAC a bit better here or there but maybe not also. Very little real world consequence to be had with that list of speakers. All good speakers, all great companies. Little different price targets but pretty close stuff. The winner will go to whoever is running the best source in the best room. Sorry don’t mean to bum you out but it’s true. Those Focal’s are good speakers. None you listed are great. All are really good though. The Magico’s will be more dynamic and transparent but a bit constipated. The Rocky’s will chill, very nice but a little laid back with my mind on my money and money on my mind. Yes the Focal’s are a little hot up top but nothing a little intelligent rig matching can’t solve. I would save your money until you can buy a speaker that is better enough to actually matter. Now if you want change for the sake of change then that’s cool. Been there and will be there again I’m sure. That’s part of the gig so no worries there. There will be times when you spend quite a bit more $$ and go backwards in SQ as well but that’s all part of the fun. I would save a few more bucks and look for a used pair of Scala Evo’s or M Series Magico’s or Avior II’s. Then you can get your Sox knocked off rather then squinting and saying I can hear it I think? Yes or no or I think? |
