Resolving CD Transports Crowd Sourcing

@jafant 

+1 ARC CD9 / SE

@wharfy I feel it better renders high frequency detail and transients. More immediate start and stop while still preserving space in the sound stage. I don't feel it's subtle either. Still good alone, but I wanted the clock from the get go.

wharfy

If you like the house sound of CD6SE, the CD9 is even better with a killer DAC to boot.

Happy Listening!

The Link is showing a Diagram of the VRDS on the 701

https://www.flickr.com/photos/158267783@N02/53308410414/

@wharfy 

I'm auditioning the TEAC next week. It will be fun to compare listening notes. The balanced and detailed presentation of the TEAC is something I find appealing.

David you have very good ears and music taste. Additionally you’ve had excellent CD transports in your home audio system for reference. Your listening impressions of the TEAC  will be enlightening.

Charles

Looks Like the TEAC has the capability to win favour, the reports certainly are not to askew from the reports I copied/pasted about the VRDS 701.

I look forward, along with others, to the further descriptions to come of it being experienced in use.

@ja_kub_sz 

Thanks for the comparisons. I'm auditioning the TEAC next week. It will be fun to compare listening notes. The balanced and detailed presentation of the TEAC is something I find appealing. I have a question-why did you get the CG-10 Clock? 

David

@ja_kub_sz 

Congratulations!!!

Appreciate your time and effort to share your listening comparisons.

Charles

JAY CDTMK3 and TEAC VRDS 701 https://imgur.com/a/on2stS3

Again been playing duplicate CD's and just sinking and volume matching them both switching between the Teac and Jay. They’re both excellent, but I’m gonna keep the Teac.

https://imgur.com/a/on2stS3

Just a follow up. So I have in house the Jay Audio CDT MK3 and their new Clock 2.

Head to head against the Teac VRDS and clock (as transports). I’ve listened to the Jay in 24bit/176kHz upsampling and native 16bit/44.1kHz of the Teac and these two transports are excellent, but honestly the Jay can sound ever so slightly etched with certain high frequency sounds. Vocals more present and up front with the Jay, bass more weighted and palpable with the Teac, both extremely detailed. Maybe ever so slightly more depth with the Jay do to vocals being more forward, but the Teac is just that good. Maybe even better considering there isn’t anything that sounds strident on it. My speakers are the Focal Sopra 3 and Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC with Riviera Levante IA.

Teac VRDS 701 CDP and CG-10 Clock coming in at $3,800 + $1,800, Jay CDT3 MK3 with Clock 2 at $5,000 + $700. So both essentially the same price.

I honestly have to give my overall nod to the Teac yet again, however the Jay Clock-2 is a better value. If you want to try a diffenr clock with the Teac (cheaper) keep in mind you need a 50ohm clock and cabling to make it all work, which is harder to come by, then say a 75ohm clock.

Just a recap

Teac Pros
Tray load
DAC, CDT, Digital Inputs, Preamp
Better low frequency control and weight
Trigger functions
Better value

Jay Pros:
Tank build
Better Visibility for the screen
Upsampling (best with R2R or smoother more rolled off DAC IMO)
More vocal presence

https://imgur.com/a/on2stS3

@wharfy 

Onward and upward. Waiting for the Urd and Teac 701T to be released. Am going to give them attentive auditions

Agreed!!

Pro-Ject RS2T is a home run sonically but let down by questionable management actions/decisions. Onward indeed. David I am looking forward to your listening impressions of the Schitt and the TEAC transports. Sonically the ARC CD6 SE and RS2T have set the bar high.

Charles

@wharfy  - Sorry that you didn't get a thumbs up from them, but glad that you at least got their honest responses.

@charles1dad 

@facten 

Thanks for the timely and common sense advice. I called the dealer from whom I purchased my CD Boxes. His advised against because there is still too high failure rate. He won't be taking orders for it in the foreseeable future. I followed up with a second phone call to another audio dealer who advised against it, also. Oh well, that settles it.....

Onward and upward. Waiting for the Urd and Teac 701T to be released. Am going to give them attentive auditions.

David

@facten 

As a very happy owner of the RS2T I totally have no issue with your injected comment. Pro-Ject has a quality control problem that they have to acknowledge and correct. Hopefully they will commit to this. They obviously had a bad product run at some point. 
 

I purchase my RS2T in November 2021 and have had zero problems. This seems to be the case with other owners who purchased around that same period. So something went wrong at some point with subsequent production of this transport. I’ve been an advocate of the RS2T on this forum solely based upon my outcome with it. 
 

Pro-Ject needs to figure out how to get the quality control and reliability to match their achievements with its superb sound quality.

Charles

@charles1dad - I shouldn’t have interjected "I wouldn’t" into the comment as what I would do under the same circumstance that he encountered doesn’t matter. The rest I still recommend considering before shelling funds out. Project’s responses seem to downplay and minimize the issues versus responding with a more customer centric view of responsibility and defined assurance of  problem resolution.

@facten 

Good advice. I understand why you wouldn't. I also understand why David is contemplating another try. He's lived with it and has experienced its brilliant sound quality. 

Charles

"So, if the issues are corrected, how would one find out, without purchasing and hoping you got a good one? "

If it were me before I took another chance ( I wouldn't) I'd call the dealer I bought it from and ask what their present take on the quality/returns is. I'd also call a couple of other dealers and ask the same. I would preface my question with the fact that I have had to return 2 of them already. I would not discuss with them the responses received from Project as to not prejudice their responses. Compare and contrast for yourself the dealer(s)' and Project's responses; and then decide whether or not you want to take another chance.

@alexberger I believe the URD will be re-released in Mid November ...

So, if the issues are corrected, how would one find out, without purchasing and hoping you got a good one? 

What are everyone's thoughts? 

David,

I’d only buy from a retailer who has a clearly stated return policy. It’d be ideal to compare in your system with the ARC CD6 SE you’re enjoying currently.

Charles

Does anyone received the Schiit URD transport?

FYI-I received one more response from Pro-Ject.

"If it stopped reading all CDs the problem was probably the switch that is pressed when you close the lid. While this switch is mechanically speaking the same as always, there were some improvements to making it more reliable.

 A few software issues were also addressed that prevented CDs from being read. But as I said, I think most likely you had a switch that was mechanically not fully pressed, or always depressed."

So, if the issues are corrected, how would one find out, without purchasing and hoping you got a good one? 

What are everyone's thoughts? 

David

@wharfy 

 

In all, when working, the CD Box is a wonderful transport because it achieves a balance of resolution and musicality

That balance of resolution and musicality is a spot on assessment. Precisely my initial and lasting/ongoing impression of the RS2T. I'm glad that the ARC CD6 SE is working out so well for you. 

FYI-I received an email reply from Pro-Ject 😀 They asked for the serial number of my CD Box, indicating there were "historical problems" with certain units before "the updates."  We shall see.....

At the moment, I am really enjoying the ARC CD6SE that is on loan. While not quite as resolving and tuneful as the Pro-Ject CD Box, it is tuneful, has a wonderful tone, and has synergy with my other ARC components. In all, when working, the CD Box is a wonderful transport because it achieves a balance of resolution and musicality. 

Additionally, the DAC in the CD6SE player is also top notch. I'm running an Aurender music streamer/server through it, via USB, and it sounds terrific. 

David

The Shanling ET3 has an oversampling chip. Does it automatically upsample all information or can you switch it on/off?

@wharfy 

That's disappointing.

Charles

Just an FYI follow-up to my previous follow-up- 

On Monday, I responded to Pro-Ject support with the following question: "With the redesign, can a CD Box user now have confidence that the problems rendering the transport inoperable have now been eliminated?"

It's now Friday, and I haven't gotten a response. 

@facten 

Good question/fair point.

Charles

I have no dog in this fight but I am curious if either of you have "bent CDs"?  I can't say that I have a one. And, I  wonder how they would come to a conclusion that owners had noise problems because of "bent CDs".

@wharfy

Hi David, thanks for sharing this reply from Pro-Ject. I hope that they respond to your pertinent follow up question. I have to say that I have not experienced any of the numerous problems they detailed. My RS2T has been silent while operating since day 1. Anyway I hope that their quality control is raised to a consistent high standard.

It should not be a hit and miss proposition under any circumstances. Every buyer of this transport should expect and receive the exact same outcome that I have gotten. As always David I appreciate your recording recommendations and heads up.

Charles

@charles1dad 

This is their response. Does this mean the quality control issues have been fixed and a buyer can have confidence that the problems have been eliminated? I emailed them back and haven't gotten a response yet.

BTW--I picked up a used copy of Miles Davis, Highlights from the Plugged Nickel. Wow! 

"Thanks for your message. There have been several improvements over the years. A number of firmware updates that fixed various display issues and power and CD reading issues.

The top lid has received a modification to sound proof the CD player, as the CD Pro 8 was often a bit too noisy, especially when used in small rooms. It was fine with CDs that were very straight and not bent, but some CDs that were in less of a good shape (which are more than one would think) were noisy.

There have also been various improvements to the packaging and securing of the drive for transport.

Best regards,

Dominik Hofer"

@wharfy 

Meanwhile, I've been sending emails to Pro-Ject's parent company, Audiotuning, asking how the CD Box re-design is going

David,

What type of feedback have you received thus far?

Charles

FWIW-Enjoying the ARC CD6SE loaner quite a bit. Will audition the TEAC and URD as they become available.

Meanwhile, I've been sending emails to Pro-Ject's parent company, Audiotuning, asking how the CD Box re-design is going. If anyone else is interested in emailing them-

@twoleftears I was also going to mention the Simaudio Neo 260 Transport- 

@deep_333 

It has been clearly stated by @vthokie83 that he compared all three transports in the same system, outlining sonic signature of Jay's in relation to other two. 

I think it is the best way, if not the only way to, review a component.

maybe you’re not a fan of Jay’s or in ChiFi at all. I gave a short impression/opinion of the unit tested in my system, with my ears, in my house....nothing more. My system tends to be more "laid back" or warm, and I am always looking to add more detail in my budget restraints....if it does not lead to fatigue.

At the time I had the Jay’s transport, I had a direct comparison with my Audiolab CDT6000 and my ancient Onkyo C-7030.

I like good quality Chifi or any quality hifi from my country or anywhere in the world just fine. I don’t like the crap from China...or other trash from the good ol’ boy here in town or anywhere else in the world.

For what its worth, one of my dacs is a denafrips. Generally, a Denfafrips+tube amp pairing can tend to sound detailed without fatigue (what you’re describing), no matter what the source is..i.e., it could be digital files from a NAS, or a flash drive or a CD transport. So, blanket attributing such a sound signature entirely to a transport seems rather strange (like you did on your first comment).

There are all kinds of dudes on youtube doing speaker reviews, preamp reviews, amp reviews, dac reviews, etc somedays and i know they’re conflating and describing some other component in their chain (not homing in on the component they say they’re reviewing)....

Deep_333,

Not sure where the snarky comment came from, maybe you're not a fan of Jay's or in ChiFi at all. I gave a short impression/opinion of the unit tested in my system, with my ears, in my house....nothing more. My system tends to be more "laid back" or warm, and I am always looking to add more detail in my budget restraints....if it does not lead to fatigue.

At the time I had the Jay's transport, I had a direct comparison with my Audiolab CDT6000 and my ancient Onkyo C-7030. Not sure what more what you would want than an honest tested and compared opinion in my system. I know my $16K mid-fi system is not the equal of your's, but everyone here deserves input from all levels.

Best to you

. I have auditioned the Jay’s CDT2 MkIII both in a friends system, and in mine. It is without a doubt the best CD transport I’ve ever had the pleasure of hearing.

Very detailed, yet not at all bright or fatiguing. In my system it was paired with a Tubes4HiFi VTA St-120 tube amp, and a Denafrips stack which leans toward a more relaxed slightly warmer sound. The extra detail was a welcome addition to both combos, and a great pairing.

Hmm, so, Jay’s fabulous spinner transport was "very detailed, yet not at all bright and fatiguing"....Hmm OK, It was paired with some tube amp and a Denafrips dac. Hmmmmmm, so, how exactly did you figure out that the transport did the "very detailed, yet not at all bright and fatiguing" sound and it was not the Denafrips and the tube amp’s doing all day long????? Could any fairly decent spinny transport paired with your tubeamp and Denafrips do the "very detailed, yet not at all bright and fatiguing"?????????

Enlighten us a bit more about your assessment, will ya @vthokie83 ?

@jaymark -

Ugh! I feel your pain. Any chance you can get refund/credit for your purchases?

I have two dead high end Project CD transports.  Took forever to get a service authorization.  I have yet to send them for repair cause I have moved on.

@wharfy 

I still have the CD6SE (On loan from a friend). I’m really impressed with the air between and around instruments. Listening to John Coltrane’s solos on "Blue in Green" from Kind of Blue, the CD6SE allows you to hear the resonance/echo as he plays.

David,

I enjoy every track on that iconic album. I have to admit however that “Blue In Green “ is my favorite. I just love Adderley’s beautiful alto saxophone solo. Superb musicians all.

Charles

@pindac

Great comments on the two paintings--I’m of the school that you can’t see or hear what’s not there. In the case of music, if it is there you want the best resolving equipment to hear it.

@charles1dad

Agree about comparisons between the TEAC, RS2T and CD6SE. The review posted by Pindac is so thorough, I’m going to make sure I DON’T read it before listening to transport.

I still have the CD6SE (On loan from a friend). I’m really impressed with the air between and around instruments. Listening to John Coltrane’s solos on "Blue in Green" from Kind of Blue, the CD6SE allows you to hear the resonance/echo as he plays.

David

@charles1dad It is a pleasure to share a few descriptions from those who post on another forum.

 Especially when a very experienced individual in the area of digital source becomes a convert, as the result of a short exposure to the device in use.

It is also nice to see the description come from a party without any commercial interest in the item being reported on. 

As stated in the past, my ear is to the ground when it comes to CDT's, I am keen to learn where the next move will be from the PWT I am using. 

@pindac 

Thst was a very insightful comparison of the new TEAC 701 transport. I have no doubt that it has excellent sound quality. They have been at this for quite some time and clearly know what they are doing.

@wharfy (David) it will be most interesting to see how this refined tray loading VRDS transport matches up sonically to the terrific top loading RS2T and CD6SE. Fun and exciting times.😊

Charles

The following is a extension of the previous info posted as a user review on the REAC VRDS 701CDT.

This time it is used in another system where the system owner has carried out substantial investigations into a Digital Source, from trying out numerous Devices and Modifications to a range of Devices.

________________________________________________________

System Owner

Today was the day that the TEAC CDT came to play, and with it came our resident poster of down to earth opinion and logic, Macca. I couldn’t quite believe it had been 5-6 years since he was here last, but when we dissected what system I had at the time, there was no doubt. For this occasion was not only an opportunity for me to hear this new off the shelf CDT, but also a chance for Macca to hear what I had done since he was here last…..which is a lot.

The system previously consisted of a DCB1 preamp, PecanPi DAC, Krell KSA100 MK1 and Pioneer CS-77A speakers. As I said, it’s been a while.

We decided to allow the CDT to warm up while Martin got his head around the system. The X50D has been on 24/7 so no need to warm that up. We played a fair bit of music in that hour. Tracks from Robert Plant, Gary Moore, ZZ Top….the list goes on.

After a little while Martin turned to me and offered the following opinion (not verbatim)

“If I had one criticism, it would be that it’s too smooth…almost overly smooth. It’s missing some crunch. It’s also missing a bit of air and space around the HF”

I wasn’t entirely in agreement. The system is refined and i have always thought of it as such, but i then started listening to it for crunch and yea, i can see what Martin was getting at. The room and acoustic solutions may have impacted the HF’s space and air too. Maybe it was a little too polite. If so, i have no idea what i can do about it at this point. We listened for a while and then got down to business. Files vs CD.

The plan was to rip the CDs and then put the rip on the X50D and compare it to the CD it came from. I had already done a few rips prior to Martin’s visit, but he had two CDs with him. Joni Mitchell Blue, and Dire Straits - Love over Gold. I ripped Joni Mitchell first and we compared “The last time i saw Richard”

I will keep the description fairly brief so as to not fatigue you all, but my perception of what I heard was that when we played it on the X50D, the soundstage seemed to flatten off a bit, front to back. It was wide, but it didn’t seem to have a lot of depth VS the TEAC’s presentation. The TEAC equalled the X50Ds soundstage width, but it had more space front to back and top to bottom. This gave me the impression of a more natural presentation, with better 3D imaging. There was also one other change I noticed. When JM played the piano, via the CDT, it sounded more vibrant, more dynamic. Admittedly, it’s maybe a 2-5% difference, but it’s how I felt when I heard it. Quite honestly, I don’t know if you’d pick it out of a line up with any regularity, but I felt it, and it was a feeling that didn’t leave me all the way through today’s session.

We played Peter Schneider’s - Secret Mission album and again, to me, via the CDT, the trumpets had more “thrasp” when they were played, and if i am being 100% honest, it sounded more alive, like it was bouncing along, like it was fun for them to play and it was fun for me to listen to.

The session was bloody brilliant, and in a world where you had to pick one or the other, we both said we would pick the CDT, which surprised me as I had absolutely no inclination that I would feel that way when we started this session.

Funnily enough, when we swapped from the “internet obtained” FLAC files to WAV files ripped from the CD’s, that feeling of everything being too smooth went away. There was absolutely nothing to grumble about SQ wise. In fact, it sounded epic to me. I know that when you download P2P shared files you are at the mercy of the quality of them, and yes, i am sure my official purchase of Sera Una Noche file (AIFF) would sound epic too, but the fact is that i only have a couple of VERY decent files like that, vs an entire library of files with origins i have no idea of.

One of the things that became apparent today was that buying a CD with the EXACT mastering you want is a very desirable thing. The copies of Joni Mitchell and Dire Straits that Martin brought with him were FAR superior to even the 24/96 versions of both albums that I have, which were P2P downloads btw. Which kind of proves the point.

In the midst of all of this, it’s easy to forget why this session was arranged, but i should point it out as I feel it’s a point worth making.

Originally, I had questioned CD’s or CDT’s ability to match modern day technology. I bought an old Audiolab 8000CDM and gave it a damn good listen. Ultimately that fell by the wayside due to reliability, but it wasn’t up to it sonically either. The TEAC is a whole different story. It’s right up there with one of the best file based transports i have heard, and in my humble opinion, if you own an X50D you should be extremely pleased with it, especially if you get the PSU changed. However, for me, the future of digital in my house looks to be CDs.

The X50D has been sold, and I have bought a TEAC VRDS - 701CDT in silver.

Humongous thanks to Martin for dragging the TEAC down here for a listen. I owe you a pint or two at the next show/bakeoff

______________________________________________________

TEAC Owner

I'm speaking with TEAC. see if they will put me on commission  

No hanging about there just go for it. I like it.

I put a few thoughts up:

Always enjoy a meet up with Ollie because like me he never gets bored of talking hi-fi. Plus I did want to get a listen to his Troels speakers.

The streamer vs CD was very interesting. The random files from the internet we listened to first didn't sound so great to me, but I think there was a couple of things at play.

First I had to adapt to a very different room and although the speakers are not dissimilar to those I own (both three-way front ported towers) the overall presentation was quite different. 

Second I had only just got out of a car from a 40 minute trip down the motorway, I know that the noise from that dulls my hearing for a while after. Much later when we played another of those files it sounded fine. 

With the cd copied to hard drive vs the same CD in the player, both synchronised, we could swap fairly fast between the two. (Now I think about it, having one running ahead of the other might have been better).

Have to say I did not hear any specific differences, except maybe the decay on Joni Mitchell's piano was not so delicate with the streamer. Also as Ollie mentions the trumpets maybe had a bit more rasp. But Ollie did blind test me - I got two right and two wrong. If there are differences they are at best tiny at least for me.

Gut instinct though - If it was a dealer demo and I had to walk out with the transport or the streamer, sound quality the only factor - I'd walk out with the transport. But it's a choice I already made so I'm going to have some bias.

But onto the speakers - yes, once I was acclimatised I could start hearing all the good things they do We listened to the whole of  Oasis - 'Definitely Maybe' which is probably the second best test disc you can get after Thin Lizzy 'Live And Dangerous.'

The Oasis will show up any crap speaker usually within seconds. A studio recording mixed to sound like a gig in a working man's club. Hardly any mid-bass, a shedload of very low bass, dense mix, musically raucous. It's a killer.

Well, it sounded great, top to bottom with everything there - for example you could even hear the backing vocals which are well buried in the mix without having to actively listen out for them. Yes, that's the sort of thing I base my judgements on,  I'm afraid.

Bass goes deeper than my speakers even though they are maybe 50 percent larger, the kick drum had power behind it mine don't do. But then on a lot of speakers that kick drum isn't there at all.

Never got untidy but they didn't smother the recording either. They are very refined but not to the point where it starts killing the sound. 

Great speakers. Plus the finish on them is outstanding. 

Anyway thanks for having me Oli - when is your TEAC turning up?

I have had a look at the supplied images of Artwork myself.

For the Vermeer, I would say the image gives a 'clear insight' into how the Subject of the Painting and Artist are working towards producing a Portrait. A portrait within a Portrait.

Is it suggested the Project has a presentation that leaves the Perception, one is receiving more information than the recording alone, it is able to conjure up the sense that the recording studio might be detected as well. I only say this, as their are a few Vinyl LP's I listen to, that really can make one feel they are sensing the ambience of the recording environment. 

The Sargent, show everything one wants, the subject is quite easy to depict, it has an additional ambience, especially the content that pokes to create a mood.

The Sargent application of medium, shares similarities to how Audio Equipment processes the applicant of the embedded data released from the storage medium.  Each are pretty much aligned to a journey in creating a Audio System, the impression made is always satisfactory, but the longer observed, and perceiving deficiencies, the objective can easily become one where the intent, is for getting that last morsel of resolution and clearly defined image. Is this not the outcome that for some is the most desirable as the end goal.

How the colour and vagaries are revealed and are able to stimulate one, is where the end product produced shows we are all with our own unique preferences.    

The Marantz CD60 is a strong buy a $999. Marantz is one of the few companies still taking CDs seriously, and both the 6007 ($599) and the CD60 make excellent cases for their success. The CD60 has 2 filters in its DAC, a new output stage and dedicated headphone amp. There are those who turn their noses up at Marantz as being too 'mid-fi'. I suggest you listen before speaking. For sound quality, value, actual support they are hard to beat.

And if it's just a CD/SACD/Streamer with a custom DAC/Upsampler, dedicated streaming and headphone amp with a wireless player with app (HEOS) you want, the SACD 30N  for $2999 has you covered. Oh, finally, the analog parts are not the ubiquitous opamps, the HDAM modules are Marantz designed differential amps, more skin to high precision instrumentation amps than hifi. Long story short: Marantz is building some pretty awesome high-end gear, as they have for the last 65 years.

Hi David,

https://indianapublicmedia.org/nightlights/jackie-mclean-and-lee-morgan-the-dynamic-hardbop-duo/
 

I bought “Consequence “  probably 25 years ago. They’re good playing together.

Charles

OP,

I recommend signing up for the free month of Qubuz. My dealer pestered me for the better part of a year to switch fro Tidal to Qobuz. I finally did a couple years ago and cancelled my Tidal subscription within a couple days.
 

While there is only a slight difference in the basic sound of the two services with the exact same recording… Qobuz has well over one half million high resolution albums Tidal only has something like 50K… MQA pretty much sound like red book. 
 

@charles1dad 

I did not know that Morgan and McLean collaborated. Looking into this I saw that at some point both played with Art Blakey. What do you recommend?

@jetter 

Both you and ghdprentice raise an interesting point. To many people playing a CD is an archaic way to listen to music. There are multiple reasons. Consequently, the technology that makes the CD listening experience sublime, i.e the ability of getting a replacement Phillips CD drive is no longer a necessity for the majority of music enthusiasts, and is a real concern and consideration. 

If I was much younger (I'm  66 and recently retired!!), I'm not sure CDs would be the way I like listening to music. My thirty year old son lovingly chides me because of the money I spend on my hobby and the physical space needed to enjoy it. His media of choice is his iphone and Apple Music.

I was a BIG analog person and only when my turntables stopped working, were hard to repair, and records were harder to buy, did I grudgingly buy my first CD player--a SONY multi-disk. Now, I like CDs for their physical convenience-storage and ease of handling, sound quality, and the availability of satisfying CD players and transports. 

With that said, technology being what it is, it's not hard to accept (after a Manhattan, or two) that at some point I could be streaming on a regular basis. The sound quality via Hi REZ is improving, the huge music catalogs available, and the excellent DACs and streamers available point to a future where CDs and transports could be fewer and far between. Space considerations also factor into this. Looking to downsize, one of the first questions I ask is if the house I'm looking at has a something I can turn into a listening room. Until then, or not, I'm going to really, really enjoy my CDs.