My DAC has I2S capability and that's something I'm factoring in. I had a Holo DAC and ran a Singxer bridge between my Aurender music server and the DAC. I noticed an improvement in sound quality.
Resolving CD Transports Crowd Sourcing
Hi everyone! A couple of years ago I purchased my endgame CD transport- a Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T. Loved almost everything about the unit--highly resolving presentation, dead quiet background, balanced placement of instruments in a believable 3 dimensional soundstage, and the synergy it had with my components. In fact I loved the transport so much I had two of them because Pro-Ject quality control and customer service is the pits. After almost a year of hassles, I'm swearing of Pro-Ject.
I'm in the market for a replacement CD transport that has the same qualities of the Pro-Ject minus the quality issues and customer service.
PS Audio, Jay's Audio, CEC, Audio Research (which are CD/DAC units) come up in my search. What are your thoughts? With all the bells and whistles the Pro-Ject was around $3300, so that gives you an idea of my budget, though I could go higher.
Thanks in advance!
228 responses Add your response
Thanks! Acquiring the Jay’s initiated a learning curve involving a very high level of frustration stretching over several months but I once I managed to restore tonal balance (thanks to recommendations by forum members), I began to really appreciate what it brought to the system. I didn’t have any issues with my Moon 260 but the Jay’s is significantly more resolving.
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@wharfy "The Sim has transport issues" I have a 260D in my second system , it was in my main system before I purchased a Neodio CD player last August . I have had no issues with the transport or anything else. I don’t know how it sounds vis a vis a Jay’s or the Project but I find it to have very good SQ especially via the AES/EBU output. The Sim is significantly better than the Cambridge CXC which I had before it. Anyway, best of luck with whichever transport you select.
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I have TIDAL and Aurender has terrific synergy/sound quality. I like putting on the streamer when I want to listen/sample in depth musicians and/or types of music. There are times I find something I really like and then will buy the CD. Other times I listen to something and while I like it, it's not something I will own. TIDAL will also have music I can't get on CD. Aurender also has an internet radio feature. I often listen to this jazz station out of San Diego. https://www.jazz88.org/#:~:text=San%20Diego's%20Jazz%2088.3%20FM%20%2D%20KSDS The sound quality from TIDAL/Aurender is very, very good. But, CDs played through a terrific transport/DAC combination always sounds better. Have you heard Stan Getz and the Oscar Peterson Trio (1956)? | ||||||||||||||
Your observations of Jay's CDT3 concur with what others on discussion boards, and a couple of trade magazine reviews have said. HDCD is a resolving format and can easily understand why having a cd player that decodes is a good thing. Like Charles1Dad said, I am interested hearing your comparisons and contrasts. | ||||||||||||||
Let’s be serious, what is the number of albums in HDCD format? And what are the chances the music / artist you like is in that format? Unless you are the type of guy who use the music the listen to the gear. Which is exactly what ASR crowd blames the Audiophiles for doing. Also:
You got a lot of recommendations here to build a short lists. I am so sorry to say at this point you have to listen, compare and contrast by yourself.
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David, Thanks for your reply. No doubt that both audio formats call easily coexist seamlessly. I’ll get into audio streaming eventually. I enjoy the Pro-Ject RS2T and Abbas 3.2SE DAC so much I am just thoroughly content for now. I’ll at some time duplicate what you are doing.😊 I have heard Getz-Peterson (Jazz radio) but do not have any of their recordings (Yet). Charles | ||||||||||||||
I think everyone would agree that an in home audition of audio components is the ideal scenario. Not always possible to arrange unfortunately. I have found listening impressions from experienced forum members very valuable over the years. I try to hear as much as I can in person but you can’t hear everything all of the time. I have been made aware of audio components completely unknown to me via forum participation. I discovered my current Abbas DAC via a thread on WBF. I’m grateful for that exposure. No auditioning was available. DAC is built by order in Ukraine by a very talented one man operation. I’m so glad I took the chance given the dire situation. The DAC is fabulous! Charles | ||||||||||||||
Saying CD’s always sounds better is bit of a reach. This may very well be your experience with certain recordings but simply not possible across the board. I have heard and compared recordings on both formats and they both can sound stellar to mediocre. Why? Because of provenance and mastering of a recording. They are the key differentiator between us loving or hating a recording, IMHO. My system - Aurender N30SA ➡️ Merging Technologies DAC with external power supply and both DAC and N30SA are synchronized by external Merging +clock. | ||||||||||||||
I may be wrong but I thought that David was clearly referring to his specific listening experience with his own audio system and not making a general proclamation for all. Charles | ||||||||||||||
"You got a lot of recommendations here to build a short lists. I am so sorry to say at this point you have to listen, compare and contrast by yourself. " I have a great deal of respect for the cumulative insights and knowledge of the forum members. If I'm going to pay thousands of dollars for a CD transport I can't audition, and possibly not return after purchase, I'm going to ask lots of questions. You have provided a great deal of valuable info about Jay's CD transport. Did you have an opportunity to audition it in your system before purchase? Regards, David | ||||||||||||||
Definitely is my experience on my audio equipment. You got me thinking with your response how CD remastering and reissues can make absolute statements like "always sound better of CD" anachronistic. For instance, how many "Kind of Blue" remastering reissues are there? I have two on CD, two on records. TIDAL has more than that. I'm sure I can find a reissue on TIDAL that sounds better than the $1.99 copy I purchased at CD World in the early 2000s. So yes, point taken. David | ||||||||||||||
One of the great discoveries I made via streaming was this Dexter Gordon gem. Dexter Gordon Featuring Joe Newman. It’s not a particularly great recording, with some questionable editing of songs. But the musicianship is top rate.
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@wharfy :
I did not. Because I could not in the case of Jay's Audio CDTs. But I did my own research, I created a short list of possible candidates, some of which I was able to audition, some not. Then I took the leap of faith. And honesty, even you already have a shortlist, it will be practically impossible to audition everything in your list. Unless you wait a very long time. What I was trying to say is that whatever recommendation you get from other people (like myself included) here, it is helpful to the extent of helping you to build a list for considerations. We all hear differently, have different tastes in sound, so take it all with a grain of salt IMHO
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Thanks David . Newman is a 1st rate jazz trumpeter but in my opinion, under appreciated. I feel the same way about Kenny Dorham whom I’m sure you are familiar with. I’ll seek out this recording. I’m a huge Dexter Gordon fan. Charles | ||||||||||||||
I currently own a RS2T. I went through 2 prior units that were faulty. Charles 1 and I went back and forth with posts. He stated 3 strikes and your out. When the earlier units were working they were to die for, my audiolab 6000CDT is a great unit for the money. The RS2T is in a completely different league. It is SUPERB, with a good or great DAC (using now a Meitner MA-1 V2 DAC) I bought a 3rd from the Music Room, (great to deal with) so far, almost a year, GREAT!!!! NOTE: TMR told me due to issues the RS2T is on hold with them until further notice. I am currently thinking about another transport also for another room, so this article is most interesting. Deciding to upgrade a 6000cdt or a benchmark DAC 3b,(which I really LIKE) in that other room??? Thanks to all that participated. Now the homework. Thank you | ||||||||||||||
Very few people who buy a transport will care if it plays HDCDs but I wanted to point out the problem because a lot of people read these forums and maybe someone would benefit from knowing that. Berkeley makes the only current HDCD DACs that I know of but many vintage DACs and players have that feature. I also have a Krell KAV 250/2 player that has the HDCD feature. I have to take issue with your comments about HDCD, however. There are a lot of titles that were recorded using HDCD and a bunch of my favorite artists used the format - Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, Neil Young, Van Halen, Grateful Dead, Roxy Music, Dixie Chicks, kd Lang..... I could go on. Besides these well known artists there is a whole audiophile catalog on Reference Recordings that is HDCD encoded. There are also other audiophile labels such as Audio Fidelity and Audioquest that have released dozens of remastered tities using HDCD. In my experience HDCD discs when played through top grade players and DACs typically sound significantly better than their regular counterparts. I've got 4 versions of CSN's CD including SACD and I like the HDCD version best. One of the reasons that HDCD sounds so good is because the Pacific Microsonic converters were pretty much the best of their time. Another reason is that the studios that invested in the Pacific Microsonics gear, which was expensive, tended to be the better studios staffed with the best engineers. The HDCD process itself gives a little more dynamic range and improves the sound as well. In nearly every case where I have the non-HDCD version vs. the HDCD version the HDCD sounds better. There are a few that I've compared that sound very similar but I've never heard an example where the HDCD is worse. I have about two hundred HDCD titles out of a collection of around 4,000 CDs which is not a huge percentage but it is still significant. I actively collect HDCD titles because I like the sound of them and I have the equipment to decode them. I probably would have still purchased the Jay's Audio CD3 if I had known that it would not play HDCDs but I was disappointed to find this out after I bought it. It's such a nice piece of gear that will accept this particular fault. | ||||||||||||||
David @wharfy I hear you on remastering. “Kind of Blue” is one my favorite recording. I used to own atleast 5 or 6 copies on CD’s but my search ended when I purchased 2011 release on K2HD. Granted, I haven’t heard every digital version but K2HD version is simply stellar. If you’re a fan of Dexter Gordon, you must consider purchasing this version before they are gone! Once you hear these Blue Note gems, your investment in a high quality transport/DAC combination makes it worthwhile. Alan Yoshida is a master craftsman! | ||||||||||||||
I go back and forth about purchasing another RS2T. I love everything about the sound. And at the price, it's a bargain. The CD Box reminds me of a Fiat ("Fixing it always trouble") my neighbor once owned. When it was up and running it was a dream. I agree TMR is a terrific dealer. I have had nothing but terrific experiences with them. They told me they wouldn't ship another RS2T until Pro-Ject/Sumiko addresses quality and customer service. I would like to add it CD Box back into my system, but at this rate I may be too old to fully appreciate what it has to offer 🤨 I've heard the Meitner MA-1 V2 DAC. It's very, very nice. I imagine you have terrific synergy. All best on your sonic journeys. I hope you find your "Holy Grail." David | ||||||||||||||
I understand your hesitation. To my understanding Pro-Ject is addressing and troubleshooting the problem (As they most certainly should). Although you enjoyed superb sound quality, a shame you had to endure the unnecessary reliability issues. There are other fine CD transport alternatives undoubtedly. It's just that you're acutely aware of what you had sonically with the RS2T. A homerun concerning performance, a dropped ball regarding consistent unit to unit quality control. I wish you the best. Charles | ||||||||||||||
I agree about the rs2 but luckily had no issues and with seperate power supply for this and the rs2 dac quality went through the roof. I do get bored of peoe suggesting a server or streaming as I think as friends who blind listened that the cd still beats the same album on Qoboz (at a higher quality) It makes No Sense but the ears preferred.... As for alternatives I would love to hear the Cec transports | ||||||||||||||
Off the wall suggestion. Now I know the OP specified a CD Transport and doesn’t want a streamer. However….the Melco optical player can be used to either burn CDs to a Melco NAS or to play a CD. It has to be connected to the NAS/player by usb in order to play the CDs. I think it is a pretty quiet and resolving transport, but no I haven’t done side by side comparisons with the other CDTs mentioned here. However…if it were of interest to the OP…besides playing CDs he would be able to rip them to a NAS. | ||||||||||||||
"To my understanding Pro-Ject is addressing and troubleshooting the problem " I have no skin in this, but based upon reading posts over the last year or so the QC issue(s) has been a known for some time . It would seem that Project would have long since addressed its production and overall QC especially given its price point. | ||||||||||||||
Wharfy/David: Thanks for the return post. I am so lucky (so far) with my 3rd (hopefully a winner) RS2T. I also invested through LT Audio a LPS and the DAC combo sounds GREAT. In my secondary system, I use a DAC 3B Benchmark, and an Audio lab 6000CDT. Just added a ANTI CABLE Level 3 power cable to the DAC, big improvement, I was very surprised as I wasn't expecting much. I really like my DAC 3B, but was wondering what a step up the ladder might offer. Similar experiment in main room with Meitner and RS2T reveled quite a step forward. If I was to consider (which i AM) another Transport it may be the Jays audio CDT2 ( not sure the proper designation) but the unit that sells US for about 2.5k. Maybe even consider buying an extra laser unit?? On the DAC side looking at an upgrade (hopefully) maybe a used Merison DAC1 or T+A 200 DAC, Abbas 3.2 se DAC? Just tossing these thoughts around, looking for others inputs. Currently waiting for delivery (much anticipated) another couple of months a NEW pair of Tekton MOAB"S with BE tweeter for main listening area. Money very tight after recent purchase, more research than anything else, unless a GREAT deal jumped out. Thanks again, Robert TN | ||||||||||||||
I concur 100%. This should have been recognized and corrected earlier. I suppose better late than never. I have posted often on these forms as a very happy and impressed owner of the RS2T. Every one sold should perform splendidly as mine has, rather than hit and miss outcomes. Pro-Ject must ensure that the transport reliability equals its brilliant sound quality. Charles | ||||||||||||||
Agreed with your quality issue assessments! I have to say as I'm doing research the CD Box still comes out on top wrt sound quality. I've actually wondered if I would be crazy trying to get another one. I've reached out to Pro-Ject North America to get a better idea if it's worth a third go-around. David | ||||||||||||||
@robshaw - Many people think Jay's MK2-III transport sounds fantastic. I've done quite a bit of research and have considered getting one. I think the thing that makes me hesitate is the no returns policy. Charles1dad has an Abbas 3.2 se DAC and is very satisfied. David | ||||||||||||||
David, The 3rd time was the charm for Rob as he mentioned earlier. I’d only consider it if there’s a clear snd definitive return policy. It would be wonderful if you can finally enjoy the RS2T trouble free as other very happy owners are. Particularly in your case as you well know its sonic capabilities. What ever you decide I wish you the best. Charles | ||||||||||||||
So you are doing “research” on this, but never bothered to listen to other CDTs recommended on this thread? Whatever research you are doing I want to smoke some. What’s the point? I am terribly sorry for speaking my mind. I know bad idea.
As they say, fool me once, it’s on you. Fool me twice, it’s on me. Fool me three times… (yet to be explored)
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I have made in-roads to learning about the sonic available from streaming over the past few years, where demo's have been had in carefully selected systems to help with the assessments and evaluation. I have not had a demo' of streamer as a Source using my own system. I have heard my own CD Source used in a System I am very familiar with that has a Linn Akurate + expensive upgrades. The Linn Streamer was great, it was a really good way to be presented music, it actually changed my thoughts on streaming, I become an advocate of the idea, the ease of use and sonic produced were in conjunction a worthwhile experience. From previously sought out demo's, I had formed a view of not being too impressed, after hearing a few Sources on other systems of which one was a £6K Streaming device used in a £100K system. The Linn Streamer + expensive upgrades was not a match in being able to create a sonic that had a undeniable attraction, that was near parity to the systems Vinyl Source, CD Source or my own CD Source. I would still have a Streamer, I will be interested in discovering one that can present a sonic similar to the Linn, but come in a t a cost that is quite a a bit more pocket friendly. | ||||||||||||||
@thyname +1
I can’t believe that the OP is considering buying another Project after having 2 previous failures and complaining of inadequate CS. This is like trying to counsel an abused woman who yet again is contemplating returning to her abusive mate because he keeps promising to change | ||||||||||||||
Just to offer my 2 cnts. There are 2 reasons I took a flyer for a third RS2T. As it has already been stated the first 2 were not workable. I sent them back to TMR, with a through explanation. They were great to deal with. If it were not for TMR, and their customer service, return policy, I would not made a third purchase. Charles and I had posted back and forth several times, and agreed the sound of the unit just cannot be beat. Once heard you will always remember its sonic attributes. I asked TMR if they would open and thoroughly test the new unit before shipping, they had it for almost a week. Maybe I'm as lucky as Charles with this unit now, I HOPE! Having TMR as a dealer was very reassuring. Hopes this helps someone. Robert | ||||||||||||||
My comments about wanting another CD Box have elicited some strongly-opinionated responses! I know it sounds crazy, the sound I'm after is what the CD Box delivers. I go back and forth. With that said-I contacted Pro-Ject N.A. and they indicated the CD Box is being redesigned to eliminate the disc recognition issues and squeal noise that many users encountered. They don't know when their redesigned product will be back on the market. Meanwhile, I had a terrific conversation with an audio dealer who carries Pro-Ject. They said the failure rate of the CD Boxes since 2022 was 70%. Wow!! So, what does that mean for me? I'm going to take some time to listen and learn. If anyone around Northern NJ has Jay's Audio transports, or CEC transports and is willing to invite me over for an audition, I'm happy to bring some snacks and spirits. The TEAC mentioned at the beginning of this thread is available in October. Happy to seek one out for a demo. I'm also interested in ARC CD6SE because I have ARC upstream, and suspect there will be synergy with my rig. Will it best the CD Box? Only one way to find out.
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That does qualify as a wow!! No question I feel quite fortunate. I am glad that Pro-Ject has put a hold on things until they get this sorted out thoroughly and once and for all. David how much is the TEAC 701 retail? If you are able to hear it, the CEC or a Jay’s Audio model I’m very interested in your listening impressions. BTW I strongly suspect that the ARC CD6SE would be very good. Charles | ||||||||||||||
After my Theta Data Basic burned out and Theta could not provided a replacement mechanism, I investigated a large number of transports. I was disappointed to find that most transport/player manufacturers rely on outsourced mechanisms (mostly from Philips and Sony) like Theta did and have the same issues with non-repairability in the future. I couldn’t find a manufacturer who was willing to retrofit new mechanisms into their older transport/players, so in my mind, they became disposable units. I bought a used Simaudio 260DT (transport only) in part because I was led to believe that they make their own mechanisms. My hope is that if they change their mechanism they would make them backward compatible (time will tell). I have really enjoyed my Simaudio 260DT. No issues after 2 years. It is so much better than my old Theta that the burnout was a blessing in disguise. | ||||||||||||||
I have a Jay's-Audio CD2-MK III transport. It replaced a 47-Labs Flatfish/dumpty psu and it was certainly an upgrade sonically. The CDT2 is a well-built and put together transport and after some break-in has been great. I wanted one last product so that despite my having a great music-server, I do love on occasion to spin up some of my old favorite CD's, or if an audiophile friend brings over a CD that I don't have. The CDT3 was not yet released and while I may have waited for it if I'd have known, I really couldn't see spending much more for occasional CD listening. All this said, and after break-in and extensive listening, I prefer music played from my Innuos ZENith MK-III to the same DAC that I feed from the CDT2., and that includes streamed music from QoBuz from the ZENith server. I have not heard CD's played from the Jay's CDT3 and I'm sure it would be better sounding than the CDT2, however I'm pleased with my digital system for my needs as is. If I had to choose one digital source, I would definitely choose the ZENith music server over a CD transport. Good luck in your hunt for a great CD transport ! | ||||||||||||||
I ordered the Schiit Urd transport. Schiit will let me return up to 15 days, so it’s a good place to start auditioning. If decide to keep it, the unit has up to a 5 year warranty (2 years on the drive mechanism). Like the Pro-Ject CD Box, the Urd uses the Stream Unlimited CD PRO-8 with the integrated Blue Tiger servo. Another thing/feature I like about the Urd is it is optimized for USB, which is what my DAC manufacturer recommends (Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 ES9038). And yes, both the DAC and Urd are UAC2 compatible. Additionally, I currently have my Aurender N200 running to the DAC via USB, and the Urd has an additional networking feature (Unison USB Hub) that will let me keep this connection. As others have said, it ships,"sometime in October." David | ||||||||||||||
Congratulation on ordering Urd. I hate to bring this up now but I can’t believe no one has brought up the Ayon CD Transport. Maybe out of your price point but it deserves a shoutout to anyone considering a top notch CD transport. Check it out! |
