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Replacement capacitors exploding
I replaced the capacitors in the crossovers in my Klipsch KSM-1 stage monitors.
There is a capacitor that runs parallel to the woofer which had blown in a couple of my dozen stage monitors. They are from the 90s, which is not ancient, but I figured maybe that age is a factor so I swapped them all out.
The replacement capacitors have all of the same numbers printed on them but are a fraction of the physical size, and in just one season almost all of them have blown. I don’t think they were being pushed harder.
Is there a way for me to order capacitors with the same specs printed on them that are also heavier duty in some other way?
There is a capacitor that runs parallel to the woofer which had blown in a couple of my dozen stage monitors. They are from the 90s, which is not ancient, but I figured maybe that age is a factor so I swapped them all out.
The replacement capacitors have all of the same numbers printed on them but are a fraction of the physical size, and in just one season almost all of them have blown. I don’t think they were being pushed harder.
Is there a way for me to order capacitors with the same specs printed on them that are also heavier duty in some other way?
58 responses Add your response
@fiesta75 Here are some EXCELLENT high end film capacitors. There are PLENTY of them: https://www.partsconnexion.com/film-capacitors.html Some are RIDICULOUSLY priced but some categories of Mundorf, Solen and Jantzen are of excellent quality and very affordable. Remember... get the HIGHEST voltage rated ones that you can find for the same capacitance value. |
@fiesta- I’ve bought from Mouser in the past, as well. Believe I got the eight last EPCOS filter caps, I installed in my Carys, from them. Do they carry any higher-end films? Just got back from work and (at times) searching their site wears me out. I miss the big-ass catalogs, all those guys used to send out. Just old-school, I guess! |
@jamessheyser- Again: try contacted Millersound, with the driver numbers. He should be able to fill in the blanks (ie: even whether stock, or not), for you. Another avenue, far as possible OEM driver info: https://www.klipsch.com/support-nav |
@jamessheyser- If you have blown woofers, Klipsch used 15", 8 Ohm, Eminence, in most of their stage monitors. Parts Express carries a wide variety. Eminence sells direct. ie: https://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Alpha_15A and: https://www.parts-express.com/search?order=relevance:desc&keywords=15%22%20eminence The drivers you have, probably were obsoleted, some time ago. Someone like Bill, at Millersound, if given model numbers from the backs of the woofers and horns, could probably give you any pertinent info. You may discuss having them re-coned, or buying new diaphragms which would save a few bucks http://www.millersound.net/speaker-reconing-millersound.html If you're in the Central Florida area, try these guys; https://www.centralfloridaspeakerrepair.com/ Don't tell the guys at CFS I sent you. They'll inflate the prices! I was their competition, for a few years. Then again: that was forty years ago. |
I’m mulling over what I’ve learned, here and elsewhere. I had 17 of these boxes in various stages of disrepair, a handful of them worked sort of OK. So the first thing I noticed was these blown capacitors, so I posted, but I’ve had a lot of other work to do, assessing blown and not stock drivers, repairing jack plates, and cleaning compression diaphragms and painting duratex etc. i’m not sure all of them had drivers that met the stock ohm rating, that may have been a factor, although so many of them were blown I have a hard time believing that accounts for everything. My gut tells me that the bipolar capacitors, while rated at the same voltage, simply couldn’t take the same degree of abuse that the non-polar ones did. I think I’m going to biAmping a lot of them and rebuild a few of them with really nice crossover parts for when I’m doing smaller gigs and just need a simple set up. |
ClarityCap makes excellent capacitors. Matter of fact: I have four ESA25, 250V and two ESA 50, 250V caps looking for a home. Also: two Mundorf, CFC14 (14Ga), .46 Ohm, 2.7 mH, air core inductors, looking for a good home (someone that actually intends to use them), for the cost of UPS shipping, if anyone is interested. I was experimenting with a pair of Maggie MG12 crossovers and ended up going with some Emerald Physics speakers, some years back. ANYWAY: The OP’s systems are stage monitors. Whether vocalists or musicians: hearing themselves, on a stage, with everything else that’s playing around them, is always a challenge and ultra high fidelity, imaging, etc: never much of an issue. Not that I mean to put words in the OP’s mouth. Just sayin’. The caps he needs: used from inductor output to ground, in a 12 dB/oct network. Absolutely no need for such high-Dollar caps as Clarity’s. We’d been in contact, via PM, a few times and he’s disappeared, of late. Perhaps: having found his caps? |
Bryston Amps and electronics as well as Axiom Audio both use Clarity Caps as does Whest Audio in London. These three very high end producers of sound equipment using these caps says a lot to me and I'd be looking at Clarity Capacitors out of England for really top notch quality and high tolerance components. They are hand made and tested, very stable and worth the extra cost.... as in expensive! |
@mahlman- "With all the non-polar caps out there I have no idea why anyone would do this." Same here (makes no sense)! I’ve never used an electrolytic in a crossover, even when repairing a customer’s. NOR: would recommend using anything but, at minimum, metalized mylars. Preferably: one of the better metal films. "Now there is value in using two caps in parallel to get to the same value as one and that is the ESR will be reduced and low ESR is a good thing." Absolutely/all day long! That post was simply an answer to a posed question.
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" rodman999995,010 posts06-10-2021 1:31am@imhififan - Half the capacitance. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/69715/can-two-electrolytic-capacitors-be-made-into-a... " With all the non-polar caps out there I have no idea why anyone would do this. Now there is value in using two caps in parallel to get to the same value as one and that is the ESR will be reduced and low ESR is a good thing. |
Many of us who frequent the Klipsch forum and work mostly on Klipsch often go to Parts Express for caps. Lots of non polar electrolytics out there but in general I replace them with poly caps even though they are much larger and may require two to get the right value. What exactly did you replace the OEM caps with? Brand, type, UF+tolerance and voltage. I have rebuilt hundreds of Klipsch crossovers and never had your problem so I am also wondering how hard you are pushing them. I bought a pair of KP-262's once that had melted the rectangular blue mylar caps but it took really serious abuse to get there. They still played but did not sound very good. |
Newark/Digikey is an electronics supply chain for pros, if you know what you are looking for/need? https://www.digikey.com/en/products Cheers, T eh |
@rodman99999 Thank you for the link. @fiesta75 No apology necessary, your earlier post lead me to these two document from cornell-dubilier and caused the confusion: http://wiki.ece.rose-hulman.edu/herniter/images/0/03/Aluminum-Electrolytic_Capacitor_Application_Gui... NON-POLARhttp://web.archive.org/web/20131110001709/http://electrochem.cwru.edu/encycl/misc/c04-appguide.pdf NON-POLARThanks for the clarification. |
@imhififan - Half the capacitance. https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/69715/can-two-electrolytic-capacitors-be-made-into-a... |
@imhififan Although what you say works, the electrolytics will not have the lifetime of film capacitors. Their lifetime is in the 5-10,000 hours range at best, whereas the film capacitors' lifetimes are typically in the 50,000 hours range. Please get film capacitors :-) Also note that if the capacitors you buy are rated at a specific DC voltage, they will only be able to withstand about a third (theoretically about half (square root of 2) but I am being conservative) when exposed to AC voltage, which is what is inside the speaker. So, get a film capacitor with highest possible voltage you can find. If you have a 500 watt 8 ohm amp, the peak voltage across the capacitor may be up to 65 volts AC and may shoot up to 100 volts (approx power supply rail) during very heavy transients. So, you would need a MINIMUM 300 V DC capacitor. The higher the voltage rating, the less stressed it will be, which all adds up to longevity & reliability. If you want to sleep better and not worry, pls do the above :-) |
caps in serieshttp://wiki.ece.rose-hulman.edu/herniter/images/0/03/Aluminum-Electrolytic_Capacitor_Application_Gui... NON-POLARhttps://www.digikey.com/en/resources/conversion-calculators/conversion-calculator-series-and-paralle... |
Hello James Sheyser! For pity' sake, replace those caps with something much better. Use a Mundorf KPF. They are rated at 250 volts and will larger that what they are replacing. Be sure the "mfd" number is the same as those you are replacing. The old ones are probably between 50 and 500 mfd. A good source is PartsConnexion in Canada. Check out their website. They are not cheap but they will not give you any trouble. Good Luck! |
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To replace any cap, know more about the cap you are replacing... the methods of both manufacturing and usage have changed. Also, many new types are available now. As I don't have the time or space to discuss the above limitations, I will give some advice instead. First, ALWAYS buy your caps from a REPUTABLE DEALER, not the local parts store. Second, ALWAYS use replacements with a higher voltage rating to prevent problems. For example, if a filter cap is rated at 450 volts DC, use a 630 volt cap. If you don't know beans about caps, DON'T TOUCH YOUR PRODUCT and find an expert. The types of cap DO make a difference! |
These folks have some wonderful product: https://www.partsconnexion.com as do these guys: https://solen.ca As has been said above, electrolytic caps have been used since the dawn of time in crossovers. If they are being used in speakers currently, it’s as a cost cutting measure. High voltage film caps are the way to go as has been stated also. |
If one took the time to view these pics of Klipsch stage monitor crossovers, they’d note that the OEM/factory caps, comprising the LF circuits, are bipolar electrolytics. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Klipsch-Type-KSM-2-Crossover-/392714043491) (https://picclick.com/3-Three-JBL-S3HC-Klipsch-KSM-15-and-Klipsch-231960707452.html#&gid=1&pi...) (https://picclick.com/3-Three-JBL-S3HC-Klipsch-KSM-15-and-Klipsch-231960707452.html#&gid=1&pi...) This last link contains a crappy pic of the KSM-1 crossover. The silver can at the bottom, should the stock electrolytic, in the LF section, that gave the OP his initial problems. Scroll right and it's third from the last pic: (https://reverb.com/item/13889916-klipsch-ksm-1-vintage-15-2-way-floor-monotors-with-phenolic-diaphra...) If Klipsch provided him with new, replacement crossovers, they’d probably still come with electrolytics, in that position. I've hated electrolytics, in crossovers, from day one of my experience with electronics.
The electrolytes will dry out and the cap will lose it's values. Over-voltage will cause the electrolytes to expand and explode the cans. BUT: they've been used, for the sake of economics and availability, by speaker system manufacturers, since the beginnings of audio. |
@rodman99999, is absolutely correct. I have only one thing to add. It is important for imaging that both speakers in a stereo pair have a frequency response curve that is as close to being the same as possible. Without the equipment to tune crossovers and speakers it is probably best to stick to the tightest tolerances you can find in caps, coils and resistors. Don't worry about the brand. Worry about the tolerances (the lowest % error.) This will cost a little more. Unfortunately, even if your speakers have exactly the same frequency response curve the room will play havoc with it. Symmetry is always best. |
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BTW…. NP/BP electrolytics are super easy to make. They are just polarized electrolytics mounted back-to-back. The cans are connected together. But the capacitance value is halved. For instance, 2 1000 uF polarized caps can-connected makes a 500 uF NP cap. The voltage rating stays the same for both. Not rocket science here, folks! |
For best performance and long term reliability, crossover caps MUST be NON polar FILM capacitors PERIOD. You should NEVER use electrolytic capacitors for that purpose (well, they may be kludged back to back but forget it). Furthermore, you should pick ones with the highest voltage rating that you can find, since they are subject to AC voltages in the crossover. You can NEVER go wrong with higher voltage ratings. Buy the HIGHEST voltage rated version that you can find. They will be more expensive, but you will sleep better. If you have accidentally used electrolytics, they will blow almost immediately. Here are some excellent examples: https://www.partsconnexion.com/Jantzen-film-caps.html The silver ones are rated up to 1200 VDC, which is probably ok for about up to 300VAC, which is more than any power amplifier can ever put out and they will outlast your house. |
Examples of electrolytics, specifically for crossovers: (https://theaudiocrafts.com/x-over-parts/audio-grade-capacitors/bennic-non-polar-electrolytic-capacit...) and: (https://theaudiocrafts.com/x-over-parts/audio-grade-capacitors/panasonic-bipolar-andquot-for-audio-c...) For a large selection of quality crossover capacitors, these guys are a go-to: (https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/capacitors/) |
oh and to someones point a DC offset might have an impact on a NP cap (if its big enough) but not on a film. Which brings up an interesting theory on how it failed originally - if in fact you have enough DC (easy to measure) a BP cap, which is designed for AC on a small, ideally zero, DC base (need the spec sheet for more) could have failed. And the replacement. Putting in a film would stop that failure but not the DC offset - which is likely applied to your woofer BTW. |
Oh, i see he did later clarify that it was in fact a BP/NP. Bipolar and Non Polarized are functionally identical. So if the voltage rating was the same it ought to work. That said, i would never want a Bipolar electrolytic where i could have a film cap. The film may be much larger, but will be far more linear and better sounding, and more reliable (like within its rating, pretty much forever). In fact i have some large value films, very old, depending on the value you need. I was trying to give them away without success some time back. |