Rega RP8 or Technics SL1200G

I liked the classic 1

I would recomend the VPI Classic. I have the Rega RP-8 and I like it. I have had the P3-24 and didn't like it. I have had a VPI traveler and liked it also but liked the Rega RP-8 much better. But what I've heard about the VPI Classic is great! Hopefully you will buy something that you like..............Warren

Go for the Direct Drive - a no-brainer really.  TBH I have not heard that particular new one but I have a tweaked SL1210 that is beyond good.  Just try to get a Brinkman DD for example and prepare to take out a second mortgage. 

I would agree that the GR is very good so is the RP8. for 1700.00 its a no brainer

@tzh21y  I was wondering about that. In his review, Fremer said he used Baerwald, but from what I've been reading online, Stevenson seems to be the consensus. My understanding is that to achieve Baerwald the cartridge needs to be offset in the headshell. I will be using the Feickert Alignment Tool that I just received yesterday.

@avanti1960  I agree, no alignment protractor included with my 1200G. Just an overhang gauge.  

Technics gauge is good enough. It's quick and easy and very accurate. Of course it's a Japanese pseudo Stevenson alignment, but it gets the job done. I do prefer Lofgren A or B...

I just ordered a GR and am looking into the details of alignment and it's ludicrous that Technics does not supply a decent protractor.  relying on the gauge and the cartridge body being parallel is not doing this table justice.  
FYI i have heard trustworthy opinions that  even the GR sounds better than the RP8.  

I just changed alignment to stevenson.  I like it better on this table.

I just changed alignment to stevenson.  I like it better on this table.

invictus005

... Technics SL-1200 was never a DJ table. Not the new ones. Not the old ones. Never have, never will. They are turntables built exclusively for audiophiles. Some DJs did use them, but that’s their problem

It isn’t clear why you make this claim - I don’t recall the SL-1200 ever being marketed to audiophiles. In fact, the SL-1200 wasn’t even the top of the line for Technics during much of its product life. The audiophile magazines of the day were filled with ads for turntables, and I don’t recall Technics ever promoting the SL-1200 in them. In fact, direct drive turntables were very much out of fashion in the audiophile world after many of the early Japanese turntables proved to be such disappointing performers. None of my dealers had the Technics for sale and the DD turntables they did offer were very much high-end, such as Kenwood L07-D, Denon DP-75 and DP-80.

For much of the last 40 years, direct drive turntables were more the exception than the rule in audiophile systems. I think many still harbor a lingering prejudice against them.

Gyro SE, SL-1200G, and SME Model 10 are probably the best current turntables under $10K.

Thats an overstatement IMO. $10k is a serious budget. There are many great sounding TTs for that kind of money. Consider the likes of Kuzma Stabi Reference, Rega RP-10, VPI Super Scoutmaster, High spec LP-12, Nouvelle Verdier, Avid Volvere/Acutus SP, Nottingham Hyperspace, Dr.Feickert Blackbird....
All these are seriously good sounding TTs in their own rights. It will be amazing to see where the 1200G really falls into.

@tomstruck Technics SL-1200 was never a DJ table. Not the new ones. Not the old ones. Never have, never will. They are turntables built exclusively for audiophiles. Some DJs did use them, but that's their problem.

My experience with Clearaudio differs as well. The Concept is an extremely overrated and overpriced entry level turntable. It's no better or worse than entry level Rega and Pro-Ject turntables. The Performace DC is only marginally better.

SL-1200G is in another league. I just picked one up myself to play with. My main turntable being Michell Gyro SE with an SME 309 tonearm.

I'll have more comments when the 1200G breaks-in. But initial impressions are that it's a serious contender. I will also order an SME Model 10 soon to compare.

Gyro SE, SL-1200G, and SME Model 10 are probably the best current turntables under $10K.

You owe to your self to check out the Clearaudio Performance DC or DC Wood
it's in your price range  The table is steps above Rega or Technics  I have Performance DC with the Clarify arm and Talismann v2 gold cartridge  Clearaudio has great selection of arms fit and finish is second to none   love my tables  it has the blackest back ground better bearing the magnetic bearing cuts the number of bearing in half The tonearm has no bearings  super stable speed, better plater no mat needed keep the plater from ring like the Rega glass plater i had a Rega P3 w/ Exact 2
The only experience I have with Technics is in the 70s when I DJ they are great for that task

I tried them, I am not sure about them yet.

I have the Iso Acoustics GAIA III for feet a nice improvement

also waiting on a stillpoints LPI

I heard the RP8.  I prefer the 1200G.  mine is still breaking in.  Using Baerwald geometry.  Waiting for the mint tractor to arrive.  The table is mellowing out everyday.  needs probably at least 100 to 200 hours to really know  

I would definitely consider a Clearaudio Concept Wood (Maestro V2) https://tinyurl.com/yc6gjx4u as an alternative to both TT’s that you are considering. The lesser Concept has won a TAS product of the year in 2010 and a rave review in Stereophile: https://www.stereophile.com/content/erick-lichte-august-2012

I am a sucker for Ortofon cartridges, and I would add to that a Quintet Black S MC cartridge, which together cost the 4K that the Technics costs.

My experience with DD is quite limited, having owned a 1980-era Luxman PD-246 TT. I eventually couldn’t live with the wow and flutter, two phenomena to which I am very sensitive. That TT had a novel automatic shut-off mechanism, based on an LED and a photodiode - when the arm reached the end of the LP, a plastic piece connected to the underside of the arm blocked the LED, the motor would stop, and a solenoid would lift the arm from the record.

As for high vs. low torque motors: The most extreme case of a low torque motor is found in the British Nottingham Analogue, where you have to give the platter a spin with your hand after turning the motor on, otherwise the belt would slip off either the platter or the motor pulley. With high-torque motors, the plater MUST be very heavy to ward off the noise and clogging coming from the motor. Ditto with idler drive: the idler is made of a stiff rubber and it is directly coupled to both the motor pole and the platter. This is a recipe for considerable noise and vibration transmitted to the platter. Indeed, my old Lenco L78’s platter weighed 5 KG’s.

If no one has mentioned it yet....
The new Rega Neo power supply allows you to adjust the speed.
I got one for my P7 and was able to dial in the correct speed easily.
http://www.rega.co.uk/neo-turntable-psu.html

I have the G with a ART9 awesome sound I use carbon fiber hs like it better than the zupreme also use baerwald alignment

while i'm sure the G is an amazing table, has anyone actually heard the RP-8 / Apheta 2? 

One source tells me that the speed, transient response and attack is superior to the G.  This is something that would make me lean to the Rega if true.  

@tzh21y I haven't set up my table yet, waiting for a couple of cables to arrive. May I ask what alignment geometry you are using on your table? 

The way this table handles orchestral weight is just flat out incredible.

I agree with JSM71.  After listening for only a few hours I am hearing what this table is all about and it is a truly incredible value. 

I agree, attaching and power cables are a pain with this table.  Table is running in. 

@jbhiller  Got my 1200 G today. I should have it up and running in the next few days.             

Congrats!  I have the 1200 GAE paired with the AT ART9.  It's splendid.  You are in for a treat.  My TT is the last thing that I'd upgrade.  I'd think that I'd need to spend $20k or more to best it and I can't find fault with it.  

chakster

... the counterweight on the FR-64 you prefered over the Lustre 801 is also not on the same level as record. Actually all classic tonearms have their counterweight not on the same level as record. Do you think they are all bad for this reason?

No, of course not. I think it’s usually silly to pick one design element, and then judge an entire product based solely on that. The FR-64 is a good example - it was an extraordinary arm in spite of a few drawbacks, including the counterweight scheme. On the other hand, to praise the GST-801 as "a engineering tonearm lesson for any manufacturer designer" without noting its design deficiencies and manufacturing /QC problems is a bit misguided.

The most complicated counterweight ever made is the one that comes with Technics EPA-100 and EPA-100 mk2 with Variable Dynamic Damping for the cartridges with different compliance. This is amazing feature! And it was not released on new Technics tonearms!

Yup! And as far as I know, no one has done it since!

@cleeds Ah, i see now, but the counterweight on the FR-64 you prefered over the Lustre 801 is also not on the same level as record. Actually all classic tonearms have their counterweight not on the same level as record. Do you think they are all bad for this reason?

The most complicated counterweight ever made is the one that comes with Technics EPA-100 and EPA-100 mk2 with Variable Dynamic Damping for the cartridges with different compliance. This is amazing feature! Never seen anything like that on ANY modern tonearm of any price. And it was not released on new Technics tonearms! 

rauliruegas

@cleeds is one of some persons in this forum that always stay " behind ! my posts looking how say I’m wrong. Unfortunatelly for all them my knowledge and ignorance levels are way different from all them, so everytime they try to " hit " only achive heavier frustration to their normal heavy frustration.

You asked me a question, Raul, so I answered you. I promise you this: I'll never make that mistake again. I hope you have a wonderful day in your special world.

chakster

Could you explain what do you mean by "better geometry" of GST-801? ... I also don't understand what do you mean by "not getting the counterweight in the same plane as the record" ? Look at the counterweight here. 

As with many common arms, the Lustre/Acos didn't get the counterweight on the same plane as the record, and that is shown in your link. Pickup arms such as the SME V, the Triplanar, and the Reed 3P that you use get that right. That improves tracking, and helps stabilize VTF under dynamic conditions.

My sample was not a NOS one, that's the problem, some tiny screws are missing, but nothing serious.

I'd wager that it's the exceptional Lustre/Acos sample today that doesn't have missing screws and parts. It's nice that you don't think that's serious and enjoy the performance of your arm, but I simply don't have patience for things that fall apart, especially pickup arms. Mine started to fail after just a couple of years of light use. The SME V, however, has performed in my system without incident since around '92.

I do think the basic Lustre design was imaginative and showed potential, and could have been improved upon if the manufacturer had ever sought to correct its flaws. But that never happened, even as the competition kept improving.

@sid1

I think people get caught up into to thinking because of the looks that this is a DJ table and yes they can use it, but Technics is clearly going for the Audiophile this time around and actually they were trying to do it with the original, but because of the low price of the original, the DJs caught on and used it and the Audiophiles never excepted it.

The original without upgrade is a dark sounding turntable, perfect for "disco" clubs as a dj deck, but definitely not an audiophile turntables. Own them for 20 years, upgraded many of them for friends.

The problem is that the DJs will NEVER buy a $4000-5000 turntable (keep in mind that you need a pair of them), so the new Technics 1200G is definitely for audiophiles, not for the DJs. This is not the question anymore. 

I don't know any DJ who will jump on $10 000 pair of new 1200G while the legendary and cult status (in the dj world) 1210mk2 available for $800 for a pair! No single club or bar will replace their old SL1210mk2 with new 1200G for $10000 (pair). So audiophiles should not worry, the 1200G simply not affordable for 99% of the DJs or even Clubs. They will be happy to buy them for $500, but not for $5000. DJs are more obsessed about records than analog gear, especially when it comes to the turntables (old SL1210mk2 is a standard) and cartridges. 

Technics made new series of turntables for audiophiles and surely those turntables are x10 better than old series. The ONLY part they are sharing is the dusct cover, the rest is completely different. 

@cleeds 

It sounds like you're talking about different tonearm. Could you explain what do you mean by "better geometry" of GST-801? Look here, it's Baerwald and it's dead on the right geometry. 

I also don't understand what do you mean by  "not getting the counterweight in the same plane as the record" ? Look at the counterweight here.   

I'm using Lustre GST-801 today while my reference is Reed 3p "12 Cocobolo. Lustre GST-801 is a nice tonearm, but i don't use magnetic tracking force. The price for Lustre is much cheaper than for FR-64s for example, but Lustre comes with 2 different counterweights and additional ring weight. It's a solid arm, very well buit (imo). My sample was not a NOS one, that's the problem, some tiny screws are missing, but nothing serious.  

Hi jsm71, when you get your Technics 1200G with cartridge, please do a review of it. I was close to getting this or looking at the 1200GR. The Technics is maintenance free and based off the history of the 1200 series the reliability will be excellent. I have owned Rega and had a P3-24 and enjoyed it especially after the Groove Tracer upgrades. Regas run slightly fast but add to their PRAT. The biggest problem I had with the Rega was pitch stability, which I could hear with piano.

I also owned a Technics 1200 (Original) and it wasn’t bad, the speed was spot on. I currently own a VPI Classic 1, which I love and it’s speed and powerful motor is spot on and there is no need to use a SDS, but you do have to do maintenance on it yearly and the Unipivot turntable can sometimes be a bear to set up. The Technics will be spot on for speed stability and it has a heavy platter and bass should be excellent, just like the VPI. The Rega RP8 seems to be an excellent table, but using those rings to adjust VTF is not something that I want to go back to.

Looking at some of the better tables are coming with detachable headshells, like the Technics. I think you are going to be very happy with this. I think people get caught up into to thinking because of the looks that this is a DJ table and yes they can use it, but Technics is clearly going for the Audiophile this time around and actually they were trying to do it with the original, but  because of the low price of the original, the DJs caught on and used it and the Audiophiles never excepted it.

rauliruegas

The GST-801 is a engineeering tonearm lesson for any manufacturer designer. Way way better than your V that I owned.

The GST-801 suffered from a host of problems, including its compromised geometry by not getting the counterweight in the same plane as the record. That makes it a pretty poor "tonearm lesson." They also suffered from quality control problems, which is why my dealer at the time stopped selling them and why used ones are often sold in pieces, with some parts missing entirely. It's no wonder that they are no longer manufactured. According to vinylengine.com, it's the same as the Acos, so I'm not sure why you think that the two are "way different."

I ditched my Lustre probably 30 years ago and never looked back. As I mentioned, the Fidelity Research and SME put it to shame in my systems although - to be fair - those are more expensive pickup arms.

And you couldn't possibly have owned my SME V, because I bought mine new from a local dealer.

all those undamped FR are the worst design ever. Period.

That's an interesting pronouncement but coming from the same guy who (iirc)  insists the Triplanar arm suffers an inherent design flaw, it doesn't mean much. In fact, such extreme pronouncements are usually meaningless. The world of audio - and especially turntables and pickup arms - isn't as simple as those like you would insist.

The Lustre GST-801 was an interesting design, though. If the manufacturer had ever updated it with better geometry, materials and QC, it might have been a contender. Now it's just an oddity.

I just purchased the 1200G myself.  After looking at it I must say it is one impressive turntable. build quality and and the attention to detail is quite impressive.

Dear @cleeds : """ a Lustre GST-801, which I think is the same as the Acos.. """

wrong, way different. The GST-801 is a engineeering tonearm lesson for any manufacturer designer. Way way better than your V that I owned.

Btw, all those undamped FR are the worst design ever. Period.

R.

chakster

... FR-64fx is lighweight tonearm, less popular than high mass FR-64s for some reason ...

I've confused the two - I had the FR-64s.  That was more than 20 years ago, though. I've been using an SME V since.

@cleeds FR-64fx is lighweight tonearm, less popular than high mass FR-64s for some reason. Lustre GST-801 is universal, i use it with FR-7f cartridge (also with SPU Royal G mkII, it's about about 32g. weight). Lustre GST-801 also works fine with my lightweigh MM cartridges. I do not own the FR-64 arms, but as far as i know the armtube of Lustre GST-801 is very well damped, but the tube of FR64s is not damped at all. All i can say is that low compliance FR-7f LOMC sounds fantastic on Lustre GST-801 tonearm. My arm was rewired with Discovery Litz, i still need some tiny (missed) screws to munt the armlift etc, but i'm happy about the quality of this tonearm. I love my Reed 3p "12 too, but without arms like Lustre it would be impossible to use FR-7f in my arsenal.       

rauliruegas

" many of the best pickup arms have fixed headshells ": which ones can even or outperforms the Technics EPA100MK2 or Lustre GST 801

I never owned the Technics, so I don't have a good basis for comparison there. But I did once have a Lustre GST-801, which I think is the same as the Acos, and it is easily bettered, imo, by many arms, including the Triplanar and the SME V.  And the Fidelity Research FR64fx - which I recall you not liking - walks all over the Lustre, imo. I replaced my Lustre with the FR and used it for years. (I sold it to a friend along with my Oracle turntable, and he still uses them.)

$28,000 SAT tonearm has optional adjustable/removable headshells.

Second rate?

Dear @cleeds : I agree that everything in audio is not perfect, always exist trade offs.

Please let me know """  many of the best pickup arms have fixed headshells """: which ones can even or outperforms the Technics EPA100MK2 or Lustre GST 801, everything the same.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

rauliruegas

A tonearm with removable headshell design has a lot of advantages for you and any owner ...

Yes, having an interchangeable headshell on a pickup arm has its advantages. It also has disadvantages - most notably the loss of some rigidity - and that's why many of the best pickup arms have fixed headshells. As with everything in audio, there are almost always trade-offs. 

Dear @tzh21y : A tonearm with removable headshell design has a lot of advantages for you and any owner, in no priory order:

- we can match any cartridge in better way changing/mounting and listening with different headshells till we decide with wich one performs the best.

- one desired " characteristic " in a tonearm for performs the better is that its counterweigth stays ( on the cartridge final set up. ) as close as we can to the pivot bearing and with different headshells weigths we can acompplish that.

- a weak point with the stock headshells is the headshell/female connectors and here we have to change for better quality, something than a non-removable design preclude.

Now, I don’t have on had this Technics TT so I can’t attest what other people say about that the tonearm is the weak link in that design. I think that first we have to listen in stock status and then help us with different headshells and headshell wires and then decide if really is the weak link. Obviously that exist several tonearms that can performs better.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

lol.  It looks and sounds pretty good to me. 

possibly because it is only a 9" arm?  

i really want to know how the arm is the weak link.  I am getting mixed signals on this as some say it is great to the point where they feel they have no issues with putting 5000 dollar cartridges on it.  fremer has a 9000 dollar cartridge on it in the video.  whats up with that?  The only thing that looks weak on the arm is the headshell.

I'm not talking intellectual(i.e. using your mind to come to a conclusion), and I'm also not in the market, so it's a less important subject to me compared to others.  What I am talking about is listening to the RP8 and the RP6 on YouTube.  In that context(you can listen for yourself.), I don't believe they are in the same league.