Preamp or DAC

I have a Schiit Freya+ and parasound p6 preamp now, but ready to upgrade, anybody compared these 5 preamps  CF-080, Audio Research 5,6 se, Cary-05 and Backert Labs Rhumba Extreme v1.4, all 5 are used and close to the same price (ARC 6se  much Higher). I prefer warm/color over Natural. I've never cared for streaming or Record players, so I only listen to CDs (Denon DVD-5910).  My equipment now includes McIntosh MC462, Antique Sound Lab Hurricane DT, and Parasound JC1s. My speakers are Gershman Grande Avant.

@backdoor It seems to be a common remark that Pass preamps are not as good as their amps. Their amps have such a stellar reputation, maybe in contrast the preamps just seem okay but compete well with others? There are so many flavors out there, you just have to find one that you like. For now, Pass is doing it in my system. As always, YMMV. 
 

@audiotroy the Zesto is one of the tube preamps that keeps popping up along with new Sachs and Aric Audio and a few others. I need to look into the Zesto. Thanks for your input.

@zlone thanks for that analysis of these preamps. A lot of very good preamps and DACs have been mentioned in this thread. Some of the highest regarded have been solid state but also some very good tube ones as well. I have generally considered Pass to be great amplifiers and not so great with their preamps but I am seeing many high marks for their preamps too. 

We are a coda and legacy dealer 

we would recommend  fully balanced tube preamp 

the Zesto leto is exceptional fully balanced neutral with a touch of warmth 

has a unique tone control sounds amazing with coda

dave and Troy

Audio intellect NJ

coda zesto and legacy dealer

@backdoor I commented earlier about the Pass XP-12, but saw your question on the Benchmark. The LA4 was one of the other preamps I tried and I liked it a lot. Very resolving and also great for low volume listening. It is a bit on the cold side however, and I do prefer the Pass. I would put the LA4 at the other end of the spectrum from the 07x, detailed and analytical, in comparison to the warmth of the 07x. The Pass is somewhere in the middle. 

@audphile1 yes I am using AES/EBU connection currently and I too believe it sound better than USB or any of the others. I will take a look at Bricasti. Thank you for your input. Ultimately, you are more than likely right.

@backdoor if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Keep the coda pieces. 
I’d just get a great DAC if I were you. Look into MSB Discrete, Bricasti M21 (has R2R and Delta Sigma plus different filter options). 
With Aurender N20 the best interface will be AES/EBU which would allow you to leverage the N20’s superb clock. I hope that’s how you connect streamer and DAC now. 

yyz

What did you like better about the Benchmark and Holo Audio over the 07x?

@audphile1 

Honestly I really like the 07x  I think it is very resolving, has a very wide soundstage and separation of instruments is excellent. I have no complaints. I am just looking for a next level and I wanted to get opinions on which of the two components would yield the most change in sq. I also wanted to try some tubes with the other components in my system. But I do really like the 07x and I have read where many reviewers/owners think it has tube like qualities. I definitely recommend it and even if I were to get a tube preamp I am pretty sure I will keep the 07x. 

What are some of the shortcomings of the Coda 07 preamp?

I have the CSiB integrated in my system now and am just curious since the CSiB is essentially a combo of 07 preamp and 0.8 amp

I have a CODA #16 and owned a CODA 07x preamp. I ended up with the Benchmark HPA4 (or LA4) preamp and the Holo Audio Serene preamp. Either preamp works great with the #16, with slight sonic differences. My DAC is the Schitt Yggi+ OG.

I recently heard the new SimAudio 791 preamp/DAC/ethernet streamer and while very good and extremely convenient. I had no desire to change out my preamp or DAC (and fibre optic streaming) for the much costlier 791. 

Sell the preamp and DAC and upgrade to a top end DAC with preamp capabilities.  I'd recommend the Weiss Helios.  GL!!

@backdoor

With your $12k - 15k budget, get a used Aries Cerat Incito S preampfifier or Helene DAC. Either unit will greatly transform your system and it’s worth every penny. It’s just extremely hard to find a used / demo unit in the market.

I have a similar type of system. Coda #8 amp, Holo Audio May KTE DAC, Holo Audio Serene KTE preamp and Aurender N200. I also have dual REL subs. I ordered a new BAT VK-80 tube preamp a few days ago. I’m also trying to integrate some tubes into my system. Many people I know weren't really happy with the Coda 07X preamp. You won't have any problems with impedance matching with the Coda and most preamps. The 10-1 ratio will be easily met with most preamps and your amp.

Regarding the Coda 07X, I recently replaced mine with an Audible Illusions L3A. Purchased it on a whim never planning on it overtaking the Coda. Alas, it did. The Coda has way more remote control features plus gain matching the inputs is super great. In the end, the A.I. is sonically superior to my ears. Though losing the Codas input switching via the remote control was a bummer.....

@audphile1 is correct about the impedance matching.

However the input impedance, single ended, into the Coda 16 is 50K OHMS. Balanced input, the impedance is 10K OHMS.

If a single ended preamp is chosen, the 50K input should be just dandy for the majority of preamps available.

I would look at the Ayon S 5 network player. This functions as a pre amp, incorporates a Dac and uses tubes.

2 suggestions.

1. Aesthetix Pandora (tubes) w/optional volume control, replace DAC & pre-amp.

2. Meitner MA3 no tubes but includes volume control, replace DAC & pre-amp.

Thanks for all the feedback. You have given me a lot to think about. The impedance issue for sure I had not thought about yet. Generally, there seems to be a split decision on preamp first or Dac first. Honestly, when I asked the question I thought the answers would be Dac first but many feel preamp will make the most difference. But then I do need to look at possible impedance issues.  

You already have a top-flight DAC. The Coda pres are not nearly as good as their amps. As such, I think you’re better off going with a new preamp.

My recommendation would be to stay with the CODA preamp and upgrade the DAC. Your amplifier has 10k ohm input impedance which is pretty low. Tube preamps typically have high output impedance around 600ohm. Even though it meets the 1:10 ratio it is still quiet low as impedance fluctuates. It’s possible you will have a slight reduction in bass output. Trying a tube DAC into the 07 preamp will be no issues with the preamp’s 20k input impedance. 

Going preamp-less will present the same issue with a tube DAC direct into amp. 
Talk to CODA to confirm as I’m just speculating based on typical specs of tube preamps and DACs. 

by the way could you tell me your favorite of the preamps you tried please. Thanks. Looks like Pass 12 maybe

Yes, correct, the Pass XP-12 is my favorite to date. I will stick with this one for awhile.

I’d start with the preamp for the biggest absolute level of improvement, and the Spatial Audio Raven (Sachs/Olson design), Aric Motherload, and Backert Rhumba Extreme would all be great choices and believe all three offer a trial period, which is huge especially at this level.  Best of luck.

If you decide on upgrading the preamp, look into Backert Labs. The Rhythm 1.4 is in your price range and it is fantastic. 
if you decide to upgrade DAC, I have a Lampizator. I just demoed 4 other DACs and have decided to stay with and upgrade to another Lampi. But if I did t want a vol control, I would be choosing the Aqua La Scala DAC that was so engaging. 

But also, the idea of splitting your budget into both pre and DAC could still lead to an upgrade in sonic performance. 

@zlone by the way could you tell me your favorite of the preamps you tried please. Thanks. Looks like Pass 12 maybe?

Thank you for your input. Interesting thoughts. I had always believed the preamp mad a difference in whatever system I had at the time. I have tried eliminating the preamp and it has not sounded quite right to me. However, I have not tried it with a Dac the caliber of pretty much any of the Lampis. 

Replace them both with a good tube DAC. I use a lampizator tube dac and no pre. However, the volume control on the Lampi isn’t great so I use a Transformer Volume Control.

Jerry

Nice system! I would vote preamp for sure. The May is well reviewed and well liked. I have a Coda #8 and tried the 07x, it was not my favorite out of the four solid state preamps I tried. Each one was unique and made a big difference, I think a DAC change would be more subtle. Given your system and budget, this will be a seismic upgrade. I will leave tube preamp recommendations for those with experience with the gear.