If you read the audiotweak's other posts you'll find that most of them are concerned with the products he sells or simply off topic snide comments such as this. Ignore him. |
And the tweak's response has nothing to do with the question; only lame commentary from a lame conributor. |
Larry I thought you would have been taught this lesson by now..Everything is, as it was before.Nothing ever changes not people or their perceptions of each other or the things they possess.Tom |
Lrsky,
On 7/28/03 you posted this:
>>Mick is a great guy, but I always question 4 to 7 month waits, with associated service issues.
Tubegroover is an obviously good listener, and I already respect his writings. So if he likes it that is enough for me. And I have seen almost all of these things first hand in my travels to 100 stores working inside the industry.
Thanks
Larry<<
Why are you asking this again if you believe Tubegroover enough to trust his judgment?
The Supratek threads are full of information if you take the time to dig a little.
What is your agenda? |
What is the build quality of the Supratek versus some of the other similarly priced and revered preamps?
My personal experience is with the First Sound (among dozens of more main stream pre's) and this showed me a terrific build, and not a homemade look as some smaller companies are wont to do.
I know that it gets rave reviews from owners, but generally owners like or love what they own, so this can be skewed.
Not having seen the Supratek in person,(though the exterior is quite striking) I don't know, but would like to. Can some of the owners of this product comment?
Thanks,
Larry |
I just found out the Pat Malone (lugnut) died last week. I am very sorry to hear this, but I know he is in a much better place now. Pat taught me a lot about life and how precious it is. I will miss him very much. |
Mustang, I am also using the Phillips Miniwatt in my Cortese. It was a big improvement. I have had little success on the 5881's. I appreciate the tip on the 6F6GT's. |
Hi guys,
I was speaking with Mick about the new KT-88 based monoblock amps he is working on. He plans on offering a 50wpc version, a 100wpc version, and a intigrated amp version (sounds interesting). He thinks the price will be around $3000. That would be nice, but we will have to wait and see. |
Stiltskin, I am using the 1957 metal based Philips miniwatt in my Grange and it is absolutely spectacular. I replaced the 5881 regulators with a matched quad of 1952 Westinghouse 6F6GT. Hard to believe it could get any better.
Let us know what you think of the Philips GZ34. |
The GZ34 and the Bendix 6106 are indirectly heated tubes, heater and cathode are parallel connected. Both tubes have the same base diagrams and both are bi-phase halve-wave rectifiers or full wave rectifiers.
"Slow start" means the warm-up "rise time" (time taken to change from 10% to 90%) of their output voltage when fully loaded, which reduces the inrush current of other electronic components.
I gathered this information from some books, I´m not a technician.
The question is, is it the same thing "indirectly heated" and "slow start", or in other words, all the indirectly heated tubes have slow start?.
When I asked Mick if I could use the U54, a tube with the same base diagram as GZ34 and that is also an indirectly heated rectifier, his answer was: NO!!! It is not slow start.
In some substitution book I found that the U54 can be used instead of GZ34...Could someone help and explain this technical issue?.
Slowhand here you have a very complete data for the Bendix 6106: http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/131/6/6106.pdf
(cut and paste in your browser). |
The Bendix 6106 is indirectly heated.The 6106 in my p.s.,the lower midrange on down is spectaular.I never heard Pink Floyd,The who ect.like this,accept live.The Bendix is a all around superb rectifier.I do have a matched pair of 1957 N.O.S. metal base Philips Mini GZ-34s. I am going to try,I know I will like...$20.each for early 1950s n.o.s. Bendix 6106s... $229.each for the Philips mini watts.The test values on all the tubes in my pre are outstanding. I am going to put back all the tubes that came with it some weekend just to check out to see if all time and money spent was worth it. B.t.w. the E.H. gold pin 6sn7s are [fabulous]... |
Hmmm...but I thought all 5Y3xx series rectifier (6106's generic is a 5Y3)are directly heated with the exception of the 5AR4.
Again, my opinion only! |
I thought the 6106 was indirectly heated. I remember someone telling me that I needed to wait at least a minute after turning the pre on to play music because the 6106 takes longer than most tubes to come up to full power. |
Kgturner,
The Bendix is a 5Y3GT (directly heated)and does not have the "soft start aka delayed start up time" feature that the 5AR4 has upon turn on. What it does is it wil strip your other tubes(cathode-stripping)because there is no electron cloud formed yet in the tubes before high voltage were applied(prematurely). The 5AR4 on the otherhand is a indirectly heated rectifier. They have different circuit characteristics. That is why some circuit design using the 5Y3GT has a filament heater first before applying the high voltage(delay). Here is a table of the typical "turn On" delay time (meaning full voltage appllied for maximum current)of some tubes:
5R4 5sec
5U4 6sec/6sec
5931 9s/7s/10s
GZ34 31s/33s/32s
PY88 40s
PY500A 45s/40s
Also, the 5AR4 has a lower voltage drop than a 5Y3, around 40 volts less than a 5Y3 at say 100mA current. So, replacing the 5AR4 with a 5Y3GT results in under voltage of other circuit stages that would shift all of the preamps operating parameters.
For me, it is on plain view that changing the 5AR4 with the 5Y3GT will change the characteristics of the preamp and of course its sound. That is why I stop believing that the 5Y3GT (6106) is the best rectifier for the Supratek because I think it is doing something that is not "healthy" on the preamps circuit masking as an improvement of sound. This can be proven very easily by measuring the rectified voltage (output) of the preamp PSU between two tubes.
This is the same reason why one of my previous post I commented that "the Supratek preamp parameters were voice/adjusted/calibrated to the tubes listed on the manual".
Again, all are my point of view/opinion. So take it with a grain of salt!
cheers |
Hi all, Regarding the Bendix 6106 ,Mick told me about someone that bought a ''dud'' 6106 ,it blew fuses,the guy persisted in using it .Finally it wrecked his pre...I guess that would apply to any rectifier not just the Bendix.A good thing would buy a decent tube tester ,learn how to use it and check the tubes you buy,or send them off to someone that will do this for you. |
So last night I was listening to some music and noticed my left speaker was making a hissing / spitting sound during quiet passages. After checking all the tubes in my monoblocks, I realized that the culprit was the EH 6SN7 in my Chardonnay. I was wondering how the tube could have gone bad so quickly as I just received the Chardonnay in March of this year. I run the 6SN7 in high gain mode. Could the Bendix 6106 I'm using as a rectifier have cause the EH 6SN7 to fail prematurely? I ask because I read somewhere in this thread that the 6106 runs a bit higher than the 5AR4 / GZ34 recommended for the Supratek. Or could it just be a faulty tube? Thanks. |
Yes changing the fuse did solve the problem .
Thanks for asking.
Abill |
Did changing the fuse solve your problem? |
I found out where the fuse is in the cortese. It's at the outside rear of the power supply below the power plug.There is a little drawer that slides open.
Abill |
My Cortese doesn't turn on . I was listening to it then I turned it off for a while to change some tubes and it wouldn't turn on . I changed all the tubes in the power supply and it still doesn't turn on. It's about 2.5 years old, I didn't see any fuses inside . Any suggestions ?
I will email Mike.
Thanks
Abill |
Well guys, I remember when I first got my Syrah I was very impressed at how good the line stage sounded. As I remember it, others that got the Syrah were also impressed with the line stage being as good as it was.
The Cortese is a whole other beast. The line stage is still very good, but the phono stage, ooh that phono stage! I don't know if it is the direct transformer coupling or what, but this phono stage is stunning. I don't think I will be listening to that many CD's with a phono stage like this. The soundstage on LP's is already very big. Once the Mundorfs break in it should be HUGE! |
Hi Larry.I guess it would be similiar to a flower-lover observing a rose bud as it opens up into a beautiful flower. Perhaps some people may find the ritual of capacitor run-in an enlightning or rewarding experience. Once is more than enough for me thank you very much, though it really is amazing to hear it morph out. The quickest way I know of, is to wire the capacitor in series with an 8 ohm resistor and then hook them across the speaker terminals of any old receiver/ amplifier.The 8 ohm resistor is basically a dummy load for the amplifier to see.Leave it on for 4 or 5 days dialed in to a radio station and your good to go. If you have a spare cd player you can simply run it in repeat mode with a selection of music containing an extended bandwidth. I use the Denson "frequency sweep cd" as it contains a full scale sweep that covers every octave. Warning!!!you certainly wouldn't want to listen to it though. |
Thanks for the offer David. I have a friend here in town that has the cardas sweep record. I kind of like hearing the changes in the sound as the Cortese breaks in, so I guess I will let it break in on it's own. It will take longer, but that is ok. Thanks also for the explanation of the Mundorf Supremes. Sounds like I have a lot to look forward to.
Hello Larry,
I am enjoying the Cortese very much. The power supply on the Cortese gets much hotter than the power supply on the Syrah. It is also much heavier. Mick says I should be able to use the Bendix 6106 in the Cortese, but he said ther have been a couple of failures. I am not ready to put in NOS tubes yet, but I sure hope I can use the 6106. |
,
David,
.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the Mundorf's performance.
.
Is is possible to break-in the Mundorf's before putting them in one's system ?
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
Hey Steve. Thanks for the offer sir, as I may just take you up on that one, however I am sitting on the fence for the time being until I can get some seat time in with the stepped ladder potentiometer I have custom ordered for the cortese. Should be installed in another week. |
Hi Gang. Slowhand, Congrats on the new toy. Yeah, the run in time is always a major pain in the butt for most any new equipment, particularly hardwired vacuum tubed stuff.Now that Mick is using the Mundorf capacitors in the suprateks will only prolong the exercise to be sure, not to mention all the transformer coupling employed in the circuit design. Any capacitor employed in the signal path of any given audio circuit will need a steady diet of a modulated frequency to fully open up. Oil filled types in particular are notorious for an excessively long burn time. The Jensen oils,Audionote oils and the Mundorf supreme caps all take at least several hundred hours to completely open up the window. The Mundorf supreme's midrange is magical, incredibly clear and concise right out of the box. With more run in time you will find that window opens larger and larger in both the vertical and horizontal plane.That incredible focus and resolution of the midband will slowly expand in both directions of frequency. The bass frequencies will take the longest to fully open up but when they do they are incredibly resolved.The speed,the pitch, the attack and the decay of bass instruments per sey, percussive bass in particular....cello, stand up bass,plucked bass etc are all just so well resolved it's incredible and almost to good to be true. Moving up in frequency from the midband....brand new the Mundorf's are already very extended,smooth and articulate. It's difficult to imagine and even harder to explain because it's not just so much as reproducing the notes here but the mundorf's ability to capture the sound of silence, the air and the atmasphere surrounding the notes.The space between two or more instruments playing together in the same frequency domain whereby one can clearly focus on each of the musicians instruments as well as ascertain the distance in perspective between them. The Mundorf supremes uncanny ability to clearly focus at both frequency extremes is in a class all by itself in my opinion. You guy's may want to try them in your speaker crossovers well. The Tannoy Westminsters use high quality film caps and resistors in their crossovers to begin with but I was completely floored at what the Mundorf supremes did for them.It's not so much a tonal balance thing here, but that subliminal space and timing thing I was alluding to earlier. The only down side here is that they take even longer to run in when used in a crossover! For those that are impatient or don't like to hear the ongoing change while running in capacitors, Get yourself a copy of the George Cardas frequency sweep LP and let it play for a day or two on each track of the record, your good to go in about 10 days. For those that don't use a phono stage... theres the denson cd, it's basically the same thing, just put it on repeat when your away from your rig, You don't need even need to turn your amp on for this exercise unless your using them in your speaker crossovers. Tom.... If you can't find a copy I can send you mine. cheers |
Thanks Steve,
Mine has the Mundorf caps too. Mick told me it will take a long time to break them in. I hope to have most of the weekend to do some serious listening to LP's |
Steve,
Did the Grange lose out to the Steelhead? |
Tom, glad to see you are enjoying your Cortese.
David, if you want a new Grange, I will sell you my new one with the Mundorf caps in Piano black/chrome.
Regards, Steve |
Dig Mino. I really like "Petit Prince" and "Moun Madnina". |
My amp is the Berning ZH270. It has a volume control of it's own, but if I dial back the volume on the Berning the music is not as full or dynamic. By running the volume all the way up on the Berning you take that control out of the circuit. This sounds better, but the gain is very high on the amp. On Cd's I can only run the volume of the Cortese up to about 9 o'clock and on LP's I can only run the volume up to about 8 o'clock. That is not much room for volume, but using the low gain switches really hurts the sound of the music in my system. I agree each person has to use the gain swiches to their advantage. I spoke with Mick about this and he says the problem is that so many amp designers run the gain up on the amps to allow for use of a CD player straight into the amp, or for other reasons. This is why Mick is trying to give the gain choices he does. |
Ecclectique,
Are vishay better them Dact cp1[cp2] ? |
Regarding high versus low gain position, it's unwise to make blanket statements on which is better. It ultimately depends on your source and amp's gain. For example, if your amp's gain is very low, you are better served with your Supratek set to high gain. Otherwise, the sound is lifeless as Slowhand experienced. But if your amp has relatively high gain, your Supratek will sound more transparent set to low gain, almost in effect acting more as a passive then active linestage. |
Hi Gang. I'm waiting on a custom stepped gain pot[vishay resistors]to install in the syrah even though I will lose the remote function, I will also install it in the cortese for comparison. If I order the grange, either the syrah or the cortese will have to go first.Though I am hoping the new pot will bring the sound of the syrah closer to the sound of the cortese. |
I've been waiting since January '05 not '04 it is coming up on one year. |
Ecclectique,
My Grange was ordered 11/04 and arrived 5/05 almost 7 months to the day. It was a custom built unit. I don't know the circumstances of Larry's situation but it does sound rather unusual. Email Mick and see what the lead time is right now. Having owned the Grange now for 6 months, in retrospect, a year's wait would have been worth it for me. |
Hi Guys,
It is tough to pull myself away from the Cortese. It is sounding better everyday. I have about 50 hours on the line stage, less on the phono stage. Now that I figured out the gain swtches, it sounds fantastic. I do not recommend playing in the lo gain position. No life to the music. With the toggles in the hi gain and the rear gain 1 notch down the sound is very dynamic (even at low volume). I really like this because I can listen at low volume and still feel all the power of the bass and the inner details of the music. I plan on doing a lot of listening to LP this weekend. I can already tell the phono stage is going to be great! I plan on comparing the Cortese to the Syrah this weekend, before I sell my Syrah. I will let you know my thoughts on the comparison. I have a CD by Mino Cinelu. He is a French percussionist. This CD is extremely dynamic and will really test your system. Mino plays many percussion instruments. On one song he is playing a udu and the sheer depth of the sound just shook the room! I cannot recommend the CD highly enough. I use it to test all new equipment that enters my system. Well, I gotta get back to listening. I waited close to a year for this and it was well worth the wait!! |
Hey Larry. January 04!!!! Are you kidding? Geez, I have been seriously considering ordering a new grange but don't think I could wait anywhere near 2 years to get it. |
Any out there in Audigon land waiting for their Supratek? I ordered a Cabernet in January '04 from Mick, albeit with some custom tubes, but am stilling waiting for word of delivery. Has anyone been waiting 10 month's or more? |
.
Yeah Tom,
.
How bout draggin yurself away from the tunes and let us all know how the Cortese is sounding.
.
Rgds,
Larry |
Hey Slowhand. How about a progress report. |
I have a Cortese thats about 3 years old and I am thinking of doing the upgrade or ordering a new Cortese .
Has anyone upgraded their Cortese and could you explain the difference ?
Has anyone listened to a new and an older Cortese ?
How long is the wait for a new one? I may end up ordering a new Cortese and sell my existing one after .
Thanks,
Abill |
Thanks guys for getting me straight on the setup of the tubes. I got them in last night. When I first played the Cortese last night I was kind of unimpressed. It sounded hard and brittle with no bass. I let it play overnight and it did seem to sound better this morning. My nephew came over today to hear it. He is a guitar player, and he was playing with the gain switches. I had the 2 toggle gain switches on the top a low gain. When I would adjust the gain knob in the back it seemed to make no difference in the sound. When we moved the top gains to high, and adjusted the gain knob on the back I could hear the differences. All of a sudden there was tons of body and slam to the music. It took on a whole new life. Now I can't turn it off! I am getting a slight ground loop hum on phono. I have a ground wire from the ground post on the pre to the ground post on the back of the tonearm plug. Any ideas? If I take the ground wire off I still have the same slight hum. It is not bad and cannot be heard if music is playing. I know this thing will continue to get much better over time. It is going to be a fun trip! |
Tom.. the E180F's go in the front sockets. Putting the 6922's in the front followed by the E180F's in the "middle" of the preamp might destroy your preamp.
Cortese Tube Layout
.............6SN7..........6SN7.............
...............6922......6922...............
.................E180..E180................. |
Doc,
My comments pertained only to the Grange not the Cortese. I have no experience with it.
Thanks for the tip but I already own "Lost in Space". If you like that check out the albums by Til Tuesday. She was the lead singer, bassist, and songwriter for most of the material. I have all of the albums and highly recommend them. Thank you. |
Mustang is absolutely correct on tube position for the Cortese. The 180 tubes are in front.
Mustang, I picked up the Lucinda Williams lp per your suggestion. Very good.
Also I thank you and Ecclectique for tube recommendations. Very helpful. Definite improvement. Great fun.
Mustang check out Amiee Mann if you get a chance.
Doc |
FWIW, on my Grange the E180F tubes are in front followed by the Cca (6922) and as Slipknot points out the tubes get taller going towards the back. Perhaps yours is configured differently. Good luck. |
Tom,
Does the Cortese have a phono stage (I can't seem to keep all the models straight)? The Chenin has a phono stage using the 6922's, which are in the front most position. Confusing as both tube sets have a 9 pin configuration.... |
Slipknot1,
I would have guessed the E180's in the front. The picture of the Cortese on Mick's website looks like the shortest tubes are in the front position which would be the E180's.
Tom |
.
Tom,
.
Congrats on finally getting your Cortese. Please do give us all a detailed report on what you are hearing after you get 200 hours or so on it.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
