And the tweak's response has nothing to do with the question; only lame commentary from a lame conributor. |
Mondie
>>l am not sure what happened to the Grange, it must have disappeared only in the past few days.<<
The Grange is now a "special order" product and, as such, not displayed on the website. The time and cost of its' production has forced Mick to emphasize the other products as demand for the amps, preamps, and linestages continues to increase.
I ordered my Grange over a month ago and probably won't take delivery until mid-late February. So be prepared to wait 8-10 weeks if you are thinking about taking the plunge. |
Mick's phono stages are wonderful as you've read here and in other on-line forums. An additional incentive is the shorter signal path, fewer connections, and elimination of another interconnect. If matrimonial harmony permits it, buy the Chenin. You can recoup some of the extra money you need for the Chenin by selling the Audion and extra interconnect. Just my $02#. |
Chardonnay is linestage of Chenin (formerly Syrah), Sauvignon is linestage of Cortese, and Cabernet is linestage of Grange.
I am familiar with the Audion but more importantly have not heard it with your gear which is really the key in evaluating any component. That being said I come back to my previous points regarding shorter signal path, etc. and the advantages of them.
How do the Chenin and Cortese compare you asked? I guess my thought here is to contact Mick and get the scoop from him. Initially I was going to buy a Cortese but after numerous emails and discussions with him decided to have a Grange built; it matched up with my other components better than the Cortese. You only live once I suppose but we all live on budgets. One of the features that comes with Mick's preamps is they will sell quickly and without much $$$$$ loss, if any, should you need to move it. I can't recall seeing any Supratek preamp lasting more than a few days on Audiogon. Take your time and make the right decision. |
Bill, Don't take this the wrong way and there is no malevolence intended here but the MMF-7 and Eroica are hardly worth all of the effort you are expending here vis a vis the preamp project. This is a very average tonearm with a very average cartridge. You will never realize the full sonic benefits of a good phonostage/linestage or a good preamplifer (with phonostage)with them. Now if you intend to upgrade to a better turntable/tonearm/cartridge in the near future, then I would say go ahead with your Supratek quest. Again, this is my take on the issue. I owned an MMF-7 a few years back and for the money it's tough to beat but in the context of the other equipment you're considering, it's out of place.
I hope there are no hard feelings. |
Bill:
I have no suggestions for a turntable that will match with a Supratek. What's important is the match among the turntable, tonearm, and cartridge. If that works, everything else is gravy. |
Larryrosen
I ordered a custom Grange in early December and it appears I'm still 4-6 weeks if not more. I wouldn't have expected Mick's commitment to a firm date anyway knowing that he wears almost every hat in the company. I accepted that when I sent him my down payment. He always returns emails although it may be a day or two until you hear back. As a former president once said "I feel your pain". :>) |
Raytheprinter:
I ordered a custom Grange in early December and my delivery date is uncertain. I wouldn't begin to even predict when you could expect a Chardonnay but it wouldn't surprise me if you waited 3-4 months. However, this is only conjecture based on other posts and my own experience. Why not contact Mick for his estimation?
Good luck in whatever you decide; IMO Mick's products are worth the wait. |
>>Has anyone recieved one of the New Cortese preamps with the new 3 stage all direct coupled phono stage?<<
My new Grange should arrive in a few weeks; I'll email you shortly thereafter with the scoop. |
Slowhand,
FWIW, I ordered a tweaked Grange in November and will be taking delivery the second week of May. |
OK, I'll go. My Grange was shipped yesterday. Can't wait. |
Wow Norm that almost hurts but then again I've considered the source. |
Just received my tricked up Grange last week. Order was placed in late November. Be patient; it is well worth the wait. |
Ecclectique,
Yes PX4 direct heated triodes plus 76 in place of the standard 6SN7 (huge difference) and a few other minor tweaks. It is the only Grange of its kind in the world.
Audio has been a hobby of mine for 42+ years and words cannot describe the sound but perhaps this does:
(UFB)2
Gotta go and listen |
Good morning. Anybody roll the ECC88 tubes in their Grange? If so, what do you like and/or dislike? Source would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance to all respondents.
Bill |
I mentioned Mick's thoughts, albeit in less detail, in another thread about 2 weeks ago. Maybe your posting will get more attention and stop all of this unnecessary experimentation. |
That's right Ray. As you would say "Hee Hee". |
As a few other have done, I installed a pair of Mundorfs and a pair of V-Caps in my Grange. You'll need to find a new spot for the Mundorfs as they will not fit in the same position as the factory supplied caps and the leads must be extended. If you're handy with a soldering iron, I highly recommend this mod; just take your time. Hard to believe this preamp could sound any better but the new caps really make a difference.
Now for those Grange owners considering a Bendix 6106. Not a good idea. Other Supratek linestages/preamps might accept this rectifier but the Grange will not. The 6106 is a variation of the 5Y3 which is not a direct replacement for the factory supplied 5AR4. It is rated for only 125mA average while the 5AR4 is rated for 250mA. The Grange draws about 230mA. So if you're a roller, stay within the 5AR4 family, i.e. GZ37, GZ32, and GZ34 per the owner's manual. It took me 3 blown fuses and thankfully no other damage to learn this.
Lastly, a pair of Cca makes a huge difference in the phono stage if you can find a nice deal. |
Congrats Slowhand. Talk to you in April 2006.
:-) |
Tom I think my Grange was $325 give or take a few dollars for shipping, insurance and customs. Make sure you give Mick (in case he forgets to ask but that's doubtful) your social security number. It goes through customs much faster with it.
When do you expect delivery? |
|
>>I think you get a free toaster<<
You'll have it in 4-6 months.
:-) |
The amplifier is still in development. Power output has not yet been determined. Mick says he loves the sound of the amp as it is now but the power may not be sufficient for some of the more difficult speaker loads. It's going to be at least a few more months before the final design is set. |
The biggest bangs for the buck regarding tube rolling, IMO, are the rectifier and phono tubes. I substituted a 1957 Philips Mini Watt metal base GZ34 for the factory 5AR4 and a pair of Siemens Cca for the factory 6922 in my Grange. This was a huge upgrade even though Mick is very careful in selecting the tubes he supplies.
If you really want to get adventurous, upgrade the coupling capacitors. This substantially increases dynamics and allows the preamp to dig deeper into your source material. |
Doc, the Cca not only lowers the noise level, which I really didn't feel necessary either, but to expand the dynamics and increase the detail in the phono section. As Ecclectique articulates, there are many less expensive 6922 substitutes that will kick your phono stage up a couple levels at an affordable cost. |
Doc, You are quite ambitious I must say. The Philips is a great tube. I replaced the four 5881 regulator tubes that came with my Grange. I am currently using a matched quad of 1948 Westinghouse 6F6 and it sounds wonderful. FWIW I recommend using Walker SST or Xtreme contact enhancer.
Down the road, think about installing the Mundorf coupling capacitors. Expensive but they really kick some butt. I also replaced the factory installed Auricaps with a pair of V-Cap teflon film caps and my Grange is singing sweet. |
Fiddler has a great idea Mechans. Maybe you could title it "Preamp Deal of the Week". This will apply to both money spent and product longevity. |
>>there are some well established brands<<
With well established failure and/or repair records. LOL |
Whether or not Mick chooses to comment on this incident publicly, there's a lot more going on here than the second buyer knows, according to a reliable source. |
FWIW, on my Grange the E180F tubes are in front followed by the Cca (6922) and as Slipknot points out the tubes get taller going towards the back. Perhaps yours is configured differently. Good luck. |
>>I still maintain that as you move towards hi-rez speakers you will hear more of what your Suprateks are doing.<<
Steve, I don't think anybody would argue this point but the same could be said of any reference level component be it interconnect, phono cartridge, etc. As the overall system resolution increases it naturally enables each component to perform optimally. There's no question that a Supratek linestage/preamplifier sounds better with high rez speakers but it is not an absolute necessity to enjoy it. All of course IMO. |
Simon, IMO it's important to know who you are buying tubes from. Many of the NOS tubes for sale are 30-50 years old and their history/storage/handling is critical. I have a vendor whom I trust because all of the tubes are tested and guaranteed. That being said, I probably have paid a few (actually more than a few) dollars more than I could have but peace of mind is worth it to me. You know the old penny wise dollar foolish thing. I don't need the repair bills and/or down time because I saved $10 on a pair of tubes.
Two things I would do are ask Mick about the specific tube you want to use and then find a reputable vendor who will back his product. |
Simon, FWIW the Sylvania 1958 6SN7WGT Chrome Top is a killer tube. One of my favs. Good luck. |
Doc,
My comments pertained only to the Grange not the Cortese. I have no experience with it.
Thanks for the tip but I already own "Lost in Space". If you like that check out the albums by Til Tuesday. She was the lead singer, bassist, and songwriter for most of the material. I have all of the albums and highly recommend them. Thank you. |
Ecclectique,
My Grange was ordered 11/04 and arrived 5/05 almost 7 months to the day. It was a custom built unit. I don't know the circumstances of Larry's situation but it does sound rather unusual. Email Mick and see what the lead time is right now. Having owned the Grange now for 6 months, in retrospect, a year's wait would have been worth it for me. |
Stiltskin, I am using the 1957 metal based Philips miniwatt in my Grange and it is absolutely spectacular. I replaced the 5881 regulators with a matched quad of 1952 Westinghouse 6F6GT. Hard to believe it could get any better.
Let us know what you think of the Philips GZ34. |
Lrsky,
On 7/28/03 you posted this:
>>Mick is a great guy, but I always question 4 to 7 month waits, with associated service issues.
Tubegroover is an obviously good listener, and I already respect his writings. So if he likes it that is enough for me. And I have seen almost all of these things first hand in my travels to 100 stores working inside the industry.
Thanks
Larry<<
Why are you asking this again if you believe Tubegroover enough to trust his judgment?
The Supratek threads are full of information if you take the time to dig a little.
What is your agenda? |
Fiddler,
Nice post and let's hope the gang of one stays silent.
As a Supratek owner, I feel that I own a very special and unique component. Supratek owners, albeit few, know how special the products sound. I have espoused their virtues and perhaps, at times, a bit strongly. For that, I plead guilty but at the same time offer no apology. I started in this hobby as a young boy building Eico, Heath, and Dynaco kits. I've owned more components than most people have heard. Again no apology simply a fact. That being said the Supratek Grange is the single finest component I've heard and/or owned. I take exception to anybody calling this "worshipping at the altar" but chalk it up to either ignorance or jealousy. It doesn't matter.
Anyway good to hear from you again. |
Browbeatings? Does poor baby want a crying towel? |
I guess originality isn't one of your strengths. What are they by the way? You seem to be quite a dim bulb. |
>>But in reality I tire at seeking to communicate with an idiot.<<
You should stop talking to yourself. That's a start. |
Stiltskin,
Last weekend for grins and giggles, I installed the factory supplied 5AR4 and 5881 regulators for a 6 hour listening session. As I've previously posted the Philips GZ34 and Westinghouse 6F6GT made a tremendous difference but until I tried the stock tubes again, I didn't realize the significance of the change. Have fun. |
Thanks Stiltskin for all of the information. I just ordered a pair of Emission Labs 45 Mesh Plates to replace the PX/4 in my Grange. I am speaking with a few owners who strongly prefer the 45 in place of the PX/4. I have also removed the pair of 76 tubes that came with the Grange and replaced them with RCA VT-37 which are very sweet sounding. |
>>he could really clean house<<
Have you considered that may not be his objective? Kind or presumptuous aren't we?
>>Mick needs some production help to assuage the concerns of potential buyers<<
Really? I'm sure he'll be tickled to hear that opinion. We can all sleep better now. |
If you want one and can afford it, they you wait. Potential customers know this when they enter into an agreement with Mick and we don't need your commentary because nobody cares what you think.
Quite frankly, I would have waited twice the time I actually did, having heard mine now for 6 months.
Lrsky, here's some advice, order one and wait like everybody else or shut up. |
Do you own a Supratek TVAD? I didn't think so. Unless you have something more meaningful and pertinent to the Supratek discussion your comments are devoid of substance and merit. |
The Grange digs much deeper into the music than the Rhea. In addition to Mundorf caps, I've rolled all of the tubes in the preamp and its' power supply. It is the finest piece of audio gear I've owned and/or heard in 40+ years.
Other components, Nottingham Space Deck, Hadcock 242 Silver, Zyx Airy 3 LO SB, Extremephono Limited Edition Phono Cable, Oracle CD-1000, Reimyo DAP-777, Stealth Sextet, Canary CA-339 mono blocks, Silverline Grande La Folia, Zu Varial, and Zu Ibis.
I hope that helps. |
Yeah I forgot a couple things. I use an Audience adeptResponse conditioner. I've tried dozens of cords (literally) and I've sold off all of the super premium high price power cords and now use Zu Mother on everything. They may not be the absolute best power cord on the market but at the price, IMO, there is nothing close. Lastly, I don't know if the system benefits from all components using the same power cord but it sounds very sweet right now and I don't fix anything when it's not broken. The Zu cables (IC's speaker, and power) represent awesome value IMO.
2" maple platforms on the Grange, Oracle, and Reimyo. 1" granite platforms on the amps. The turntable sits on a Neuance platform, is suspended by chains, and hangs from the ceiling to eliminate all vibration.
Now the Rhea. An an overview I found the Rhea a little dark. Even with some tube rolling it was never particularly dynamic and didn't image nearly as well as the Grange. Lastly, the Grange separates the instruments better than the Rhea. In jazz trios and quartets, each instrument is more clearly defined and articulated. The Grange is so musical it's scary. These words may not mean to you what I am trying to describe but it's the best I can do here. To be fair, I ran the Rhea through a Pass 2.5 so take this comparison FWIW. OTOH you can't beat the Rhea and Pass 2.5 for flexibility. They really are delights for couch potatoes. |
Larry,
Congrats. You're in for a real treat. I'm sure you'll find the wait worthwhile. FWIW, I've ordered a pair of custom Merlots; the tentative completion date is 12/2006 so don't feel too bad. |
It's a year wait for 2 reasons. First he is way behind on the preamp orders. Big surprise there huh? Second, it will be a custom one of a kind pair. Special transformers and more. He wasn't going to build them at all until we agreed on a year and if it takes longer no big shake. |
