Power Cords - Just Say Yes

Lacee, you are correct all the way. Disconnecting, moving and reconnecting cables alters the sound coming from the speakers. From top to bottom there is a change in the presentation. It can take a day or so for the sound to restore. Changing out power cords also makes perceptible changes too and the sound can take days to stabilize before you can really evaluate the final result.

Quick cable swaps may or may not be why double blind testing has varying results.

That quick snap judgement call of a power cord's performance usually changes over time.

What you may not hear/or like could change as the cable settles in with the system.

Disturbing cables in my system after cleaning the connectors periodically, could make you believe that cleaning cables with Deoxit can do more harm than good.

After a few hours, things settle back in and you realize it was worth the wait.

It takes a bit of time to evaluate how any thing new is performing in a system.

I realize someone will chime in and say that it's just me getting used to the new sound, so I'll do it now and save them the trouble.

What is important is if I enjoy the new sound or I don't.

I wouldn't get used to a drop in performance,but I can state that I have gotten used to an increase in performance, and when that bug bites, you keeping looking for more.

That's why I have replaced all the stock power cords in my set up with ones that have made the music more enjoyable to listen to.
I wouldn't be enjoying my music as much if I had stopped at one power cord upgrade.

With the right cable things just settle a little more. Easier flow and the more relaxed things will be.

It's all personal preference and goals. Double blind tests help in the beginning.

Good luck.

Yes the more solar flares there are the worse it gets.
That's why something has to be done.

Whenever I hear about a cosmic storm heading my way I duck and cover myself with my shunyata power snakes.
They are shielded afterall.

No I don't have five systems, just the on going changes over the past few years to my main dedicated 2 channel system.
I suppose I should update.

What has remained constant are the Shunyata Annaconda power cords and Hydra conditioner for the front end gear.

Those power cords don't hinder the performance of anything they've been plugged into.This is also the system with 2 dedicated 20 amp lines- one for the power amps and one for the front end.I also use HifI supreme fuses in the Steelhead and the Acoustat servo amps.
Other recent upgrades were top of the line Furtech RCA on the amps, GTX receptacles,Top tier Furtech IEC on the amps and Furutech rca males on the 3 wires from each speaker.

The more I do the better it gets, but I need to get some real room treatment on my walls.

The main audio only large listening room has some ASC quarter round traps and some DIY wall panels.

I've spent a fair amount of effort on getting the power cleaned up to my gear, I like what the Furutech parts have done.
But they weren't the cheap ones,again, do it right once.

I have a smaller HT set up in an adjoining room that has 4 Magnepan MMGW on wall speakers, their centre speaker,a Depth sub a Yamamha reciever as a surround processor and a 5 channel Emotiva power amp, which is a real improvement over the Yamaha receiver.I may move up to an Emotiva pre pro in the future.

This room is devoid of room tuning. Except for a Furman IT 15 amp balanced power conditioner and a few modestly expensive DIY power cords,it is tweak free.

Still enjoyable, but with a different mind set.

Lacee..well put. question..do you really have 5 ongoing systems as your 'System' link shows...?..if you do ..and you're trying to tweak all of them ..you are one very busy audiophile...!!

"I also believe that the majority of those who state loudly that powercables (or whatever) CAN'T sound different will NEVER hear a difference, because they don't want to"

I want to hear a difference in wire and all the other improvements that tweaks bring, and I have good ears. But with all the Supernovas going on in the Milky Way, and the Sun making all that racket with Atomic Fusion, I can barely hear my speakers, let alone wire!
Cheers

"Everything matters"

Not to everyone as you point out though, plus no two things to exactly the same extent, so there is a pecking order in general to what matters most or least

"everything has a sonic signature and contributes to the end result we hear in our listening rooms"

I agree with this theoretically, but practically there is way more that matters little or is less or insignificant than the things that matter most. Time is best spent getting the things that matter most correct first. I think a lot of people are hoodwinked into wasting time dealing with less or insignificant issues before the time is right (if it matters at all to them in the end). That can be a huge wate of time as pointed out. SO it is important to put all things in proper perspective and order of significance.

"Including the room itself, which is so often neglected."

That is a big one, perhaps even #1, that is often neglected.

I think this hobby has room for all types of music lovers.
Just like some folks hooked on cars like to tinker and add turbo chargers better tires ,and upgraded performance parts, other folks are content to just drive them the way they came off the assembly line.

I have yet to understand what benefit to one side or the other,is gained when negative comments appear after a positive experience with an upgraded audio device.

The cost of the upgrade compared to the cost of the stock item is a constant complaint,so is the belief that such things just can't make an improvemnt, hence a waste of money no matter how small the investment.

Everything matters,everything has a sonic signature and contributes to the end result we hear in our listening rooms.Including the room itself, which is so often neglected.

I truly believe those who find little or no difference in upgrades,just don't sweat the details like the rest of us who hear the improvements.

Fix the power, treat the room, and then you too should be able to hear how a fuse upgrade or a power cord can make a positive improvement.

Or you can tell yourself that your Chevy Vega is still as good as it gets.

Besides powercord, i get improvements when i changed the dc cable from a stock 20 awg multistrand copper to a diy dc cable using 18 awg neotech upocc solid core silver with teflon insulation. The lines are clearer and more defined. This dc cable is for the calyx linear power supply feeding the calyx 24/192 dac.

Lacee: "It's when you add all the little "can't make a difference" tweaks together that you start to notice what's going on."

I argee heartily with that. I'm no Golden-Eared Audiofile, able to hear subtle differences instantly. I can and do hear, fairly quickly, some differences among cables and other components, but I'm more a medium- to long-term listener, able to eventually hear improvements in transparency, smoothness, etc. And lest the protestors write that I'm merely getting used to the new sounds, not all changes to my system have created better sounds, and they get reversed.

I believe that cable, generally, has significant influence on sound quality, and why shouldn't it? Even Measurists understand that, for instance, brass is a measurably better conductor of electricity than cheaply plated steel, and that copper a better conductor than brass. How about the dielectric surrounding the conductors? Who would say that PVC is a better-sounding insulator than, say, Teflon?

If you agree that components--including all cable--of a music-reproduction system can never IMPROVE the music, only add bad stuff and remove good stuff, then probably you'd agree that EVERY time you replace one of these 'sinning' components with one that sins less, the quality of the music improves. IOW, improvements to music-reproduction systems are indeed cumulative.

Lacee: "Good enough is good, but better is better. If you don't have to settle for good enough, why should you? And why should you feel everyone else should?"

WELL said, Lacee.

My system, after about 65 years of being an audiofile/audiofool, has never sounded better and is the BEST-sounding music-reproduction system I've even heard. I'm confident that all those relatively expensive interconnect, speaker, and powercables in it are assisting, not hindering, that excellence.

I also believe that the majority of those who state loudly that powercables (or whatever) CAN'T sound different will NEVER hear a difference, because they don't want to.
.

If someone states something like a fuse or power cord makes an improvement, it always sparks controversy.

Happens everytime.

Same old arguments, same rehash from both sides, the pros and cons.

The only difference is that those folks who make claims that they hear improvements are always cast in the same mold.

What they are hearing is only wishful thinking, buyer's remorse,buying into snake oil, and they are dillusional as any sane person with an ounce of intelligence just "knows" this stuff can't work.

I can appreciate comments from the folks who have tried some upgrades and haven't heard night and day differences.

Dashed hopes and great expectations of one wire transforming a system into something spectatcular, seldom happens.

It's when you add all the little "can't make a difference"tweaks together that you start to notice what's going on.

Another reason is that a lot of folks just want to be entertained.They aren't serious about the quality of the sound, just the music for the music's sake.
They really don't care about improving what they have, good enough is good enough.

What's good enough for one fellow may not be good enough for the next.

But no one should deride people for the choices they make.

If someone can afford to spend $12,000.00 on power cords and conditioning,why is he labeled a fool?

If someone settles for the stock 2 dollar power cord is he any less the fool?
No , but somehow they are the ones who pride themselves on how astute they for not falling into the charms of the snake peddlers.

What I've found is that the owners of expensive power cords seldom berate those who don't have them.
They only post their thoughts with the hopes that others may find the added joy these upgrades can bring to the experience.

In other words they would like more hobbyists to join in on the fun they have just discovered.

They aren't trying to exclude anyone,they are just spreading the joy.
Like the folks who make claims about Bugle Boy tubes improving the sound of what they have.Weren't the stock tubes good enough?
Where's the uproar over upgraded tubes?

The test of time I suppose.
As more people sing the praises, more people are curious and try.
Some will have other preferences when it comes to tubes, maybe Tele's for instance.
Perhaps this will happen with power cords etc.

However with so many favourable accounts of the improvemnts of upgraded power cords,I still see numerous reports of why no one should bother with them.

Well, why bother with anything?
Leave everything as it is,good enough is good enough,and enjoy the sound of the music just the way it sounds at this point of time in your system.Settle for what you have.

I am glad that humanity never really bought into that concept, or we'd still be living in caves.

We may be forced to live within our means,but how many people are happy with that?
If we are offered a raise,would we refuse,isn't our present wage good enough?

I think we all want the better things this life has to offer. A Rolex is not on my list, but I'm not knocking the guy who can afford it either.

It's been my expereince that I can still enjoy a well played and scratched up lp of music I enjoy, warts and all if that's all I have.
If it's the only copy I have, then it will have to do.
It will be good enough.

But I think everyone will agree, things just get so much better when you find a pristine copy or re-issue.

Good enough is good, but better is better.

If you don't have to settle for good enough, why should you?

And why should you feel everyone else should?

Snow tires are better than stock tires in the winter, yet some folks refuse to use them.
Like upgraded power cords,they'll do the job.

You only have to try them for yourself.

Does it really matter if it's nonmental or pyschological as long as you enjoy the outcome?

Just took delivery of my new preamp. WOW! What an improvement. But I noticed it has a wimpy PC. Will I replace it? Probably. Will it improve my system? - at least pyschologically! Like I said earlier, enjoy the ride before you get old and lose your hearing.

Hi everyone. I didn't realize this was still going. I did end up replacing the power cord on my CDP with a Audioquest NRG2 back in November and didn't notice any significant change if any at all. I was hoping for some eye opening experience like I had with the Rogue. The NRG4 is one of the most significant upgrades I've made.

Fuses might be my next investment and I may try the KT120's but I also have to swap out the top to my amp to fit the larger tube.

I can't believe I'm getting into tweaks. You have to be careful, but I can see where when you get to a certain point an upgrade shouldn't necessarily always be a component. I'm good with room treatments and speaker placement so this stuff is just fun and a non stressful way to make adjustments.

If you don't believe a power cord could possibly make any difference in your system, keep what you have and enjoy yourself. I would still be in your shoes if it wasn't for a close friend that I trusted who told me I would notice a big difference. If I had never done it I wouldn't know and I'd be just as happy as I am now, but with a little more money in my pocket. It's a hobby after all, and I'm glad i didn't choose rock or stamp collecting.

But you don't need to spend the big bucks to make an improvement.
Everyone goes into sticker shock, and gives up too soon.

If you can't afford the pricey stuff,you most certainly can afford a few bucks and DIY.

For the cost of a couple of good connectors,under a hundred bucks ,I think most folks in this hobby can afford that amount.

It's a shame that a few dollars can deprive someone of enjoying the hobby even more than they are now.

That's the cost of a couple 200 gram re-issues.

Less than some folks spend on tube rolling,certainly less than investing in new interconnects or speaker wires.
Yet drawing a line in the sand when it comes to power cords is still an issue.

The older I get, the less time I have to enjoy my music and the system that brings it to me.
So I try and make the best of that time,listening to music with the least amount of compromises.

A fact which you younger hobbyists will come to realize as the years go by.

My 2 cents. We have to remember that this is a hobby (and an expensive one). For most of us, we don't have "needs"; we have "wants". Fact - some wire can sound better than others. Fact - it can be ridiculously expensive. Fact - we don't need it; what we currently have probably sounds pretty darn good. But if we have the extra money, would it be fun to "improve" our sytem? - yes. I look at it this way, as long as you're paying your bills, keeping food on the table, providing for your family, etc., buy the better _______ (fill in the blank), provided you can afford it and have fun with it.
But the reality is, there's the law of diminishing returns in this hobby. At a certain point it costs a lot to reap a small gain in a system (wire being a good example). Again, it's a hobby; enjoy it while you can.

I just did that.
I changed the old IEC on my Acoustat tube servo amps for the top Furutech ones.

Not an easy job, some widening of the opening and some innovative(glue/sealant)mounting of the Furutech iec, but well worth the cost and effort.

Everytime I do something to upgrade the electrical pathway to my components it always improves the claity of the sound.

I didn't get more or deeper bass after this upgrade, but I do notice more inner details such as cymbal shimmer and better defined background voices/instruments.The timing of the system, if you are into that, also picks up,the music doesn't plod along anymore.Like taking away a beaver dam blocking the flow of a river.

I can't state it enough, everything you do to improve the quality of the electricity from the panel to the component,will improve the sound of that component.

The quality of the products you use do matter.
Furutech hasn't disappointed me yet or make me regret the cost.
Try the GtX receptacle at the end of a 20 amp dedicated line.
Then add some Furutech electrical ends,to some quality Furutech wire and plug into a Furutech quality IEC.

Look at this as a component upgrade.
You may not feel the need to swap out gear as much.

Horchai, click on my post links above ^^

Hi guys, what about changing the iec inlet of the equipment to something better like furutech? Or perhaps changing the internal wires from the iec inlet to pure copper or silver? It could be cheaper than investing in a high end power cord.

"Perhaps this makes a better power cord on the turntable even more important than on an amp?"

Answer: Yes, it's more sensitive to changes and easier to hear difference(s) in my experience.

If you want to go further crazy, try one of these and swapping in some of these later on.

My power cords are from here throughout my system.

"Wherever the electricity is choked off or it's flow is restricted or polluted, you should be able to hear the effect when these problems are dealt with."

Well, tonight I'm measuring and recording voltage at my outlets for fluctuation, interesting as it gets later past midnight.

Good luck and happy adventures Lacee. As usual, YMMV.

Yes conventional thinking would make an upgraded power cord for a Rega seem like an extreme exercise.To some even futile.
But only when you experience it does it make sense.

I tried several different power cords on that table and the SME and got the same result.
Different PC, different sound.

Don't forget we are talking very small wires in those cartridge leads,but they are fed the same electricity as the rest of your gear.Perhaps this makes a better power cord on the turntable even more important than on an amp?

Let me ask this question, do the same folks who doubt a turntable power cord can make a difference, feel that the turntable doesn't need to be plugged into a power conditioner?
Are turntables immune to the vagaries of the power grid?
Putting the turntable on the dedicated line with the rest of the gear is unnnecessary?

People it's almost 2013,not 1973.

Wherever the electricity is choked off or it's flow is restricted or polluted,you should be able to hear the effect when these problems are dealt with.

The Rega power cord replacement interests me...that cord powers a motor that doesn't actually enter the audio chain except to the extent that the motor could turn the platter more accurately, THAT is measureable, and since I have a friend with a P6 I asked him about it. He thinks his P6 runs perfectly without what he considered a weird and unnecessary upgrade. What a LUDDITE!

Thanks Csmgolf, I pressed 1 for English but it didn't work well enough. YMMV.

I am onto good stuff, such as Duelund Cast caps, they make bigger differences, you should try them if you can.

I'm cabled out with everything else and I've run the gamut with high $$ to DIY PC's.

What I mean by more or less is, anything "above" a stock cord as far as sound quality is concerned.

I think what Rx8man is saying is that the same power cord used on 2 different components may not yield the same improvement from component A to component B. Nowhere in his statement did he say that there is no improvement. My experience mirrors Rx8man's. Trust me, it is not because I am not using or trying aftermarket power cables. IME some components are not affected as much as others by upgrading the power cables, though the sound is improved. I also think your statements are far more alike than different. YMMV.

An upgraded power cord can make "less of a difference"?

In my experience and in every system I've heard one used,there was always a difference for the positive.

There will always be a difference, how can there not?

Every power cord , stock, DIY or expensive name brand has a different contruction and has been used for different periods of time,which could be beneficial or detrimental ,depending on which side of the burn in/worn out side of the fence you're perched on.

I suppose you can make the same statement with all things in audio?

So why bother with tube rolling or capapcitor upgrades if doing so will only make more or less of a difference?

If what you have been using only makes "less of a difference", then perhaps you should try a little harder and broaden your search.

The good stuff is out there.

And besides just being different, what you'll hear will be an improvement.

My experience,and that of all "others whom I know" who have done the same.

Peace on earth my friend.

I said "can make more or less of a difference" not will make.

My experience (and others whom I know) dictates what I said and I stand by it. YMMV.

I would have to disagree with Rx8man.

I've upgraded the power cords on the power supplies of a Rega P9 and an SME 10 and heard the improvement the upgrade power cords made.

I don't think either power supply is underbuilt, but certainly isn't as demanding as an amplifier's power supply.
So I wouldn't be in too big a rush to prejudge any component. Feeling that it may not be worthy of a better power cord isn't the same as trying one and finding out for certain.

That said, if your system is resolving of differences in interconnect,speaker wire or component changes, then it should be capable of letting you hear what differences an upgraded power cord can make as well.

It's worth noting that the more power cords you change and if you keep them all the same,the better the end result is.

Expecting one power cord to change the sound of the whole system can be just too great an expectation.If one expects the sound of the High End,from entry level gear, a single upgraded power cord won't do it.An upgraded power cord as simple as it sounds, can really just change the component it's used in.

If several expensive power cords from the same manufacturer is keeping you out of the fun, then DIY.
Use the same connectors and wire on all your DIY cords.

I realize folks like to mix and match, and find wires that give more bass to some componets that seem to lack it.
But having been that route,consistency,clarity and coherence is more of what I strive for,so I tend to keep all my interconnects and power cords,the same thru out the system.

The power cords, as original equipment with the Quad 63 back when they were new in the 80's,were minimal,but judged to be all you would need by the manufacturer.

Which is/was a pity, because the sound of those speakers clearly improves when you improve the power cord.The same conclusion with stacked Quad 57, Martin Logan CLS and Acousta x speakers.
The better the power cord, the better the sound.

I would suggest hobbyists to address all electronic components the same,and not discriminate or assign any sort of hiarchy to one componet over the other.
Think of it as a system.Upgrade as a system.
Only then will the sound of the system truly be transformed and the importance of the power cords will be revealed in full.

I stated previously, my first foray into dIY /upgraded power cords.

Since that time,over 30 years,the stock power cord has always compromised the sound in any component I've ever owned.
No matter how sophisticated or simple it is.

Power cords can make more or less of a difference depending on the component power supply build quality and how much current it draws.

My first "upgraded" power cords were homebrew.

I had a pair of Quad 63.

The power cords that came stock with the speakers were very thin wire,thinner than lampcord.

I used some solid core romex house wiring and soldered it to a cheap IEC, for the other end I used a cheap 3 prong recptacle.

In those days I had no dedicated lines and no power conditioning, but it was easy to hear the improvement the DIY power cords made.

So much so, that the chap who purchased my Quads asked if he could buy the DIY power cords after hearing the speakers .

DIY is a great way to solve the power cord debate.
Experimenting with better quality connectors and wire is the only way to understand that such things do make a difference,doing nothing will never answer the question for you.I like the Furutech connectors and have upgraded a few of my power cords with them.
I've also made a very decent power cord with their top tier power cord wire and connectors.But this was getting into name brand power cord pricing especially if you are looking at used power cords.

It should be obvious that if you hear improvemnts going the DIY route,you should then seek out some of the pricier stuff and compare.

You may or may not be pleasantly surprised.

Anyone realize any significant improvement with homebrew DIY cable? for example like using some beldan wire and fairly inexpensive connectors or am I opening up another can of worms here.

Donjr,

no need to become skeptic. Cables/cords DO make a difference!
Happy Listening.

I'd like to add the following.

Cost can be a factor when considering power cords, but for just a little cash, anyone can upgrade a stock power cord by replacing the cheap molded rubber ends with decent entry level Furutechs.About 90 bucks.

Is that going to put you in the poor house?

I don't think so.

Here's why.

Most of the folks who balk at spending money on upgrades such as power cords or fuses,have never tried them, but somehow know they can't make an improvement.

I tend to side more with the folks who try the stuff they talk about, not with the speculators.

Getting back to spending big bucks on this hobby.
How many of the "cheapsters" think nothing of spending big bucks on their music libraries?

Oh, yeah, it's because they are music lovers and not gear heads.

Personally,it just doesn't jive with me when someone boasts about how large their music collections are and say they've spent their money on what's most important, the music.

Well, for me it's not about how much music I have but how much I enjoy my music, and cheap gear only lets you enjoy a portion of what you have invested your money in.

If I only had 100 recordings but a system that gives me 90 % return on my investement I would be more happy than having 10000 recordings and a system that was only capable of 10% sonic reproduction.

If sound really isn't important, or the gear shouldn't be a factor in musical enjoyment, then none of us needs anything more than a pocket transistor radio.

Yes yes.

I use all Shunyata Annaconda power cords,except on my SME10, which is a DIY with the upper tier Furutech power wire and connectors.

When talking power cords,it's not just the wire.

The sound really takes off when you use the better connectors, and also when you upgrade your power receptacles.

I have had great success with the Furutech IEC for my amps and the very nice GTX D receptacles.My Annacondas never failed to please before, but since they've been teamed up with the Furutech at both ends,I couldn't be more pleased.

My advice is to not stop the quest with the purchase of a decent power cord.

You really get what you paid for when you upgrade with a dedicated line and upgraded receptacles.

One reason I feel people have negative things to say about power cords is that they've been compromised by cheap recptacles and polluted multi tapped lines to the wall.

Get the power right, and a whole new world awaits.

Been down this road with my dad's system. High end dCS digital stuff, B&W 802 speakers, Transparent Reference level interconnect, power conditioners, the works. One of the more recent changes me made was add a Transparent PLMM with MM1 technology. It is a very expensive power cable. There is no question that it made a difference. Generally speaking I believe in the efficacy of at least that brand power cable after years of tinkering.

Now to my system, I just picked up a Bryston BHA-1 headphone amp and a pair of Grado PS1000 headphones. The DAC is an Ayre QB-9. It is a great setup but the Grado's are unforgiving headphones in that fatiguing, raspy sort of way. Well I purchased them anyway knowing that there is a good chance that some of that rasp could be cured with various tweaks.

The first tweak I tried was a $200 High Performance Powerlink. I put that on the DAC. Immediately my overall enjoyment level went way up. A lot of the fatigue seemed to just disappear. I was not convinced so I returned the demo unit and replaced the stock cord. Sure enough when I listened to my system over the next few weeks something was just not right.

So I tried a better one. At $500 the Premium Power Link adds a Transparent Network Box to the cord. I had this in place on the DAC for two weeks. There is no question that it was an improvement in every way. It changed the whole character of the system. The peakiness of the highs were more pleasant, I could listnen louder, the bass was punchier and had more articulation, and I just got the general sense that the system was more refined and there was less noise and more music. It sounded a lot more like my dad's setup.

I returned the demo unit and now I am simply unhappy with my setup with the stock cords. But before I returned it I did one last experiment. I put the Premium Power Link on the headphone amplifier instead of the DAC. Well all the improvements described above were gone, but now I had a much wider soundstage and better imaging and separation. It was a totally different experience then using it on the DAC.

My conclusion is therefore that I need one high end cord for each component.

Are these products ridiculously marked up? Yes I am sure if I cracked one open what is inside would not be terribly expensive or impressive looking. However, there seems to be something about the geometry of the cable, the materials used, the network box, and the length of the cable--they seem to know how to optimize and build these things and they just work. And they do get better as you go up the line.

So I believe they work, I have heard them and I covet them based on empirical testing. Overpriced, but they work.

Sorry, I meant I may try the Qv2. Try some power cords first. They made more of a difference than going from Electro-Harmonic Kt-88 tubes to Genalex Gold Lion tubes. I'm still burning everything in. Good luck.

Powder, I actually have the QB4, more of a grounding devise, with an all tube system running through it. The 4 new Blue Heaven power cords really made most of the differences to me. As far a the Qx goes maybe a Qx2. The other devises are more than I'd want to spend. I feel the money would be better spent on upgrading equipment.

Polk432 I am looking forward to your thought of the Nordost QX4 unit. This unit has intrigued me, however their is not a lot of info. I have heard that plugging a SS amp into it has a very interesting effect?

YES DUDE!!

Fairy Tales for Fairies!

Doug, when you describe some audiophiles using words like "cheap" and "cheapskates" you get my attention, since this pursuit is expensive and seldom cheap. Even an audiophile with a modest system has spent some considerable capital. I get your points however. I overlooked the "nil" part of your statement.

I can AFFORD to buy Wilson and Pass, simply because I ACTUALLY buy Polk and Marantz. I was always taught, Live below your means.

Re DS's bit about 'cheapness' being a detriment, IMHO this is a classic pitch to embarass vunerable folks into spending their money. I mean who wants to think themselves a cheapskate. Personally I save that for how rich people tip service people, not how they spend their money. :-(

Mapman, Good thought. Personally I really don't care how anyone spends their money or what they believe so long as they don't spend my money or censor my beliefs.

But, while I'm at it - Douglas_Schroeder's comment above about success coming to those who try is striking absent of a caveat to the effect that failure is commonly attendant to any enterprise deemed worth undertaking, that a risk/reward analysis is a prerequisite, and that a fool and his money are often quickly parted.

Sometimes these 'disputes' seem to me to be founded on evidence not much different than that underlying the 'witch' hysteria which permeated the middle ages, extending as late as the 1600's in Salem. But as late as the late 1900's, perhaps even still, when it comes to children in the care of others. Yeh, hysteria is still alive and well. And, except to the degree it exists, IMHO, it still appears in this hobby. I think Jaxwired's views have a lot of merit. Folks buy into a lot of stuff because of what they are told but which they have not personally experienced. Witness, when asked, those folks cannot really describe the differences in specific terms or why it would or should be heard through their admittedly low resolution systems. Many folks, I think, really are looking for acceptance in the crowd by buying into some fairly esoteric stuff on nothing more than faith in the concensus of the crowd. Nothing new here, move on.

FWIW, for anyone who cares, I'm only slightly less than agnostic about wires. I've heard differences, I know they exist, but I'm very selective about what I buy and why I buy. I try to avoid having to buy wires to replace tone controls by careful component matching in the first place. But, wow, have I blown a lot of money on tubes! :-)

"The sad thing is that for some people the price of experimentation has to be virtually nil before they are willing to entertain a change."

IT might be about money but in my case it is more about how to spend or invest ones time best.


I do not have time to try every tweak I might, regardless of cost. What I have meets my needs currently already so there is little value to me. I'd rather spend the time listening. WHen I hear a problem or determine something might be better, I take some time to investigate what the problem might be, do some research on options to resolve it, chose one and try it,including repairs to what I have if that might be the problem.

I've spent considerable time bringing my system up to snuff over teh last 5 years, but spend increasingly less and less these days. Its more about value, which is a subjective thing, than cost. One must be careful and selective to attain value.

Not sure where that will get me exactly, but thanks for the kind words Rok.

Foster_9, how about we add back my initial comment in my paragraph, which you omitted? It makes a difference when it reads thus:

The sad thing is that for some people the price of experimentation has to be virtually nil before they are willing to entertain a change. I will simply say that being cheap holds back one's rig FAR more than most think. This is one of the reasons why I say, "The greatest impediment to building an audiophile system is the audiophile."

You swung the discussion to an extreme of $1K power cords and Fortune 500 salaries. That's quite the shift! My point, regardless of level of experimentation - for instance, perhaps sub-$100 power cords used - was that some people are SO cheap they won't tolerate even the thought of spending money on anything which is not supposedly guarnateed to improve their audio experience.

As I indicated that is "...one of the reasons," not the sole reason. As you suggest there are several reasons, including tight budgets why people can't experiment. My point was that some people are cheapskates, and I think they justify it by listening to the voices of those who have done little to no comparisons/testing of such matters. It's all a bunch of, "I think,...." versus putting up even modest amount of money to conduct a comparison.

You indicate that two of the reasons why audiophiles fail to achieve good sound are, "...knowledge, experience," which I assert can be gained through actually trying things such as aftermarket cabling, rather than sitting on one's opinion. :)

BTW, I did not say that being cheap holds one's rig back far more than other causes; I said that it holds one's rig back far more than the audiophile may think.

I believe you misunderstood my intent. My point is that at whatever level of cost, the decision to choose "value," i.e. disinterest in spending anything - note that I said, "virtually nil," - more on something not considered proven to improve is a big reason why many audio systems do not perform well.

Mapman, seriously? Six figures? You push the analogy to six figure systems? I think you are making the same stretch here as Foster_9. It's a long stretch to go from my complaint of people being cheap and willing to spend virtually nil to six figure systems.

Why is it that when aftermarket power cords are mentioned as a means to overcome insipid system building you guys jump to the 1%er argument? :)

Mapman:
you are a bright light at the end of a very long and dark tunnel. Hang in there.

Mapman, If you enjoy your system, great. Too often people buy cars and other things to impress or please others. Questioning the value of everything and anything is a great way to go the extra mile weather you have the money to burn or not. Happy listening.