Power cord choice?
A buddy sent me a Triode Wire Labs 10 plus PC to try. Put it on my amp Saturday and the change was immediate and amazing. Not subtle, huge and not debatable. Most of the audiophile superlatives apply. Soundstage width, depth, presence. Fuller slightly warmer tone but more detail and bass. I'm listening at lower volume but hearing more. Tamed a bit of an edge with my ribbon tweeter. I ordered a TWL 7 plus cord today. Really incredible. |
I don’t know Max but after seeing his videos which are very science-based I would guess that he would agree with the audio science review. Most scientists know how to speak the same language. Maybe all of you guys should meet on Bob carvers boat and talk about science and measurements and cables. If those three Guys would say that cables made a difference then I would believe it. |
Was talking with Max Townshend the other day. Long rambling talk from one fascinating subject to another. At some point he mentioned I should check out this Audio Science Review, the founder is right here in Seattle. So I go check it out. WTF? Not one even slightly interesting subject. Would not have thought this even possible. Eventually I decide to bite the bullet, try and read this one post that was pinned and seemed to be sort of a statement of what the site is all about. WTF?! They apparently are all about justifying a certain level of expense, but no more, and you are a fool to pay more than whatever that level is, according to their mandarins, as determined by their own arcane semi-mystical set of measurements. It was at this point I knew Max Townshend is a prankster with a wry and very witty sense of humor. |
I guess I am the moron now. I’d rather trust you guys over Armirm at Audio science Review. He’s not that accomplished of a guy, I looked him up, He probably bought that $28,000 piece of review equipment off of the interest he made on his money this month after retiring from Microsoft. He’s probably bored so he decided to start a website. Here is his story. I am Electrical Engineer by degree (and hobby) although most of my professional experience has been in software development. After 35 years in technology sector, I retired as VP of Digital Media at Microsoft in 2008. I am founder of Madrona Digital which is a company that specializes in mid to high-end electronics for residential and commercial properties. I also advise local companies in digital media and co-founded a company in that domain that was sold a few years ago. Hey Polly and vinyl shadow why don’t you post your chops up here and let’s see who the group would rather follow. |
That makes a lot of sense. 15A inlets, esp with the female connectors having that notch in it, makes for a swiveling connection. I was advised, and will do it soon, to wrap the connection in Teflon tape to tighten the fit. Funny you should mention, I tried a swiveling connection with my female and had the same problem with it sliding out. Tried Kegel. Never thought to try Teflon. |
Here is some more real science for you guys to try and soak in. It’s got graphs and charts and lots of explanations. https://youtu.be/dLghg0QXPzs |
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For those who are using the "water" analogy, have you had a chance to look at the size of the amp "fuses"? Tiny little thing would represent the bottleneck but it is not. Electricity is not like water. If the last 3ft does not make any difference, then why would the power supply rectifier make a difference? The rectifier is actually the last component after the power cord, the fuse, but it makes the most difference. If you don't think power cord make a difference, then fine if you can't hear a difference. But don't go around telling the power cord is the last 3ft. It is neither the last or the first because electricity is not like "water". |
@rsjm80- I've used Zu Mother PCs on a number of components and never have been disappointed, in the least. Currently: I have them on my CDP, preamp and tubed, monoblock, main amps. Some low-cost options, you may want to explore: ie: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649742715-zu-audio-mother-varial-amp-ash/ and: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649738798-zu-audio-mother-power-cord-2-meters/ Zu's description: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51dd8a95e4b0ff2f7c9874ae/t/56438a03e4b0b66656c31f7f/144726681... Reviewed, here: https://6moons.com/audioreviews/zu13/cables.html |
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I have $40,000 worth I have equipment all connected with AmazonXLR cords. It sounds amazing I have people over all the time that if they knew I used Amazon cards they wouldn’t believe it. This is not an ad for Amazon this is an argument against thousand dollar power cords add thousand dollar interconnects. Your argument is not valid. Simply because you feel you spent a lot on your system does not diminish or change the experience I, or anybody else have had by swapping out cables. I build my own amps. I spent more than 15 years refining my current amp to fit my environment and sound perfect to my ear. I have swapped out almost every capacitor and resister numerous times to achieve the sound I want. Money cannot buy you that. I know which power cord, interconnect and speaker cable combination works best with which particular combination of resistors and capacitors works best with which isolation platform works best with which power conditioner / battery combination works best with which type of source. No jokes, if a system like the one you have doesn’t exhibit noticeable differences in sound when you swap cables, you have issues which you should address. (I don’t mean you personally, I mean your setup) |
EPS Essence and Triode Wire Labs have been the best go to bang for buck all arounders for me. Dynamic Design AE15 Lotus (analog) or Spirit (digital) can be found for your price and will bring the music home. There was a Heritage on USAudioMart for 700 from Steakster that you might be able to get for that, too. Hard to resell, but you won't want to.....IMHO. Trust your own ears and enjoy the process. It's all a big experiment and if you choose to participate, there's a lot of fun and joy to be had! The answer is always no if you don't ask! |
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I have shared in a curiosity occasionally about the impact of a Cable on Device, be it a Interconnect, COAX, Speaker Cable or Power Cable. I am not too concerned in the early stages of an investigation about a Cables Construction Design. I am interested in experiencing a Wire that is used as a part of the Cables Construction. To date I have used various Wires in Various Gauges in Power Cables across many years. As most of my interest in my system is now about generating the most satisfactory interfaces, I am spending a larger proportion of time gathering a further knowledge about cables, i.e, Wire, Construction and Termination. From past and present experiences, my assessments have led myself to believe that a particular Wire Type can impact on the SQ and the affect a wire can have on a device is varying. In my trials with Power Cables I have used standard copper, and OFC, and recently brought in PC Triple C. ( Copper, OFC, OCC Copper and Silver, and PC Triple C and D.U.C.C) have all been trialled as either a Interconnect, COAX and Speaker Cable. This experience merely means I understand how certain Wires at a given Gauge are interfacing within my system only. My usual formula for a Trial, is to purchase a used Cable, ( the reason for buying used, is that it will hopefully have quite a few hours of usage behind it ). I commence with using one Power Cable only and use it on different devices, and allow it to be in use for quite a few sessions before I revert back to a previously used Cable. Bearing in mind I don't undertake the Power Cable experiences as a regular practice, when I introduced PC Triple C to the System, I was blown away. When a attached to a CDT it was a enormous impact for the better, the qualities remained but it was like the improvement on the qualities jumped to a better place, and the Soundstage become much more Voluminous, like a few extra pumps were added to the balloon. Ditto, when the Power Cable was added to the DAC. Almost Ditto, when the Power Cable was added to the Phonostage. I have not started on the Mono Blocks yet and the Internally terminated Pre Amp will probably get treated last with a exchange Cable. I am now looking to bring additional Power Cables on board, as it seems there is so much to be on offer, if the CDT and DAC both have the same Wire in the Power Cable. There is no recollection from my trial experiences throughout my whole history of building a System, where a use of a Wire has impacted on the System in the noticeable manner these modern design wires are capable of producing, at any interface. The perception created where there is more of everything, a furthering of the insight, the added Volume to the Soundstage and improved cohesion across all frequencies is a Joy to experience. The impact a Solid Core Speaker Cable has had, has now got myself all fired up to exchange the Xover to Driver wires within the cabinet, I want more of this X Factor. My previously used Speaker Cables were used in a demonstration/Bake Off with Speaker Cables, where the combined Value was approx' £7000. My Cables were selected to be used in the Final Comparison between two Cables. I did not see these ever requiring to be exchanged. I have yet to reinstate my previously used cables, as the New Wire is New and I am looking to let it settle. Again I am a little wiser on the Modern Wire Production Methods and after treatments for these Wires. Cryo Treated is a method where a Wire is exposed to be frozen to a specific temperature. Nano Treated is a method where the Wire is exposed to being Heated to a specific temperature. The PC Triple C Power Cable I am using has a reference that states it is Nano. |
I owned this very same CD player years ago. When I had it I used Shunyata Python Alpha VX and the results were phenomenal. I run a Bryston BDA-3 DAC now with Nordost Heimdall 2 power cable and I like the sound a lot. Plenty of details, low noise floor, full sound, smooth, great depth. I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend this cable and on the used market its well within your budget. |
For all of you guys out there who are smarter than I am with computers here’s a guy who shows you how to perform a null test With some software and computer. It would be interesting if somebody out there could do annual test on their computer between a normal cable and an expensive cable and let’s see if these guys are full of it or not https://youtu.be/52kbgFAuu6k |
For those of you who still aren’t sure here’s an article that’s worth reading. https://www.androidauthority.com/premium-audio-cable-myth-worth-it-1001521/ Also if you don’t like to read here’s a video. https://youtu.be/ZyWt3kANA3Q you’re better off spending your money on better components than you are wasting it on interconnects. I have $40,000 worth I have equipment all connected with AmazonXLR cords. It sounds amazing I have people over all the time that if they knew I used Amazon cards they wouldn’t believe it. This is not an ad for Amazon this is an argument against thousand dollar power cords add thousand dollar interconnects |
Power cords are really pretty simple. 3.) You're deaf. |
To the less experienced audiophiles, please keep an open mind to the concept that everything matters to the sound of your system. The folks who say power cords and ethernet cables don't make any difference should not be making that claim. They don't have your ears, your room or your component mix. Please continue to try things that interest you and take advantage of money back offers. In terms of PCs I didn't have any interest in spending my money on them, but I have educated myself the hard way by trying lots of different PCs. I caution the folks who don't hear differences about making blanket claims about cables. Two points, first, your system has to be at a resolution level to hear finer differences (obvious, but true). Secondly you may need to go high enough into the product line to get to the higher form factor of a companies technology. I entered the PC market with 5 $500 PCs and a $3500 power conditioner. I was very ho hum about the improvements. I might have contributed to a forum at that point and said don't do it, not worth it. I was persuaded by a friend to go higher up the line. The improvements these more expensive PCs have made are easily equal to a preamp, DAC or amp swap. (unfortunately they were as expensive as a component swap). My advice to the OP is to try loaners or buy used PCs on AG at 50% or less of retail from bigger name vendors and try them. List it if you don't like it and it won't cost much of anything for the home trial. Plus you are getting higher up the product line than you could have at retail. Many of the cables are great cables they just need to "fit" with your components. |
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You were extremely fortunate to make your first foray into power cords with the Viborg 1501 with the top of the line copper (non plated) Viborg connectors! As you say, there are diamonds in the rough, and that particular Viborg cable is an unbelievable value. I became interested in the Viborg connectors, and subsequently the Viborg cable, about a year ago now and built a number of cords using their top of the line non plated connectors and their 1606 cable. I've cryogenically treated all of my cabling, receptacles, etc. for the past 20 years so I did this with the 1606 DIY builds (which came in around $100-$125 Canadian depending on length) and those cables were outstanding value for the money. The 1501 fully assembled from Viborg is even better though and ridiculously low priced in terms of its performance, particularly after cryo. I purchased my first one a few months ago, the 2nd arrived and was cryoed and just went into service about 10 days ago and I broke down and ordered a 3rd which shipped in the past few days. It is only marginally more expensive than the 1606 DIY builds I did. To put things into perspective, I loaned out another DIY build to a friend of mine which was inferior to the DIY 1606 builds (and which the 1606's replaced) and significantly inferior to the cryoed 1501's I now have in use a few months ago and he tried that cord on his monster Bryston power amp. He felt that the one I loaned him was equal to a Nordost Brahma power cord that he had on the Bryston and that power cord retails at $1400 U.S. And the cryoed Viborg 1501 is in another league altogether. Diamond in the rough indeed. FWIW, the top of the line Viborg connectors are also available plated in silver, gold or rhodium. I stuck with the copper as I wanted the most neutral presentation. |
Thyname…. The reason why that people jump in is because much of what people talk about when discussing inner K’NEX and power cords is ridiculous. Most people that have knowledge of basic science can’t believe that people are talking the way that they do. That’s why I offered up the idea of peoples sinuses make a difference and how something sounds. That makes more sense then some of the explanations I’ve read about how a power cord or an IC can make a difference. |
@rsjm80 I picked up used Kimber Palladian pk-10 and pk-14 cables based on Audio Bacon Power Cables shootout: https://www.google.com/amp/s/audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/ not going to change if the improvement would just be slightly incremental.Sorry, there are no guarantees - you have to try for yourself. While you can draw some general performance conclusions as some on this forum have voiced, the quality of your external power source, the interactions of your items sharing your electrical circuit, the uniqueness of your audio chain components synergy and resistance to electrical noise, your listening space, and your hearing acuity makes your experience unique. Try it out for yourself. You’ll likely hear from no change to the equivalent of a component upgrade. Worst case you’ll be out some time and maybe some $, but you can mitigate the $cost by trying cables with a liberal return policy/trial period, or buy used and if unsatisfied resell it. IIRC the Cable Company has a lending library for a fee which might interest you: https://www.thecableco.com/lending-library |
You are right...Sorry. I think for a low current CD player, the OP does not need to spend exhorbitant money on a power cable. I’d recommend either a Straight Wire Black Thunder II(less than $600) or a Vertere Acoustics Redline(more than $600). I would suggest the Black Thunder II at around $400 for 1 meter and, at 25 pounds, buy 3 Townshend Seismic pods to tripod(or 4) for vibration control. IMHO, the vibration control might be more important than the power cord for a CD player. |
Degeneration. I don’t know how else to call this phenomenon: people starting a thread asking for a recommendation on something audio related. Anything. And all of a sudden that thread is flooded with people who think that particular TYPE of audio equipment is not necessary, does nothing, stock whatever would do and so on. I don’t understand why. Can you focus on helping the OP? Answering their question? If you have nothing to offer, be it for lack of experience, or not even believing on the particular subject, can’t you just skip, disregard, ignore? Why do you feel the urge to “participate” offering nothing useful to the OP? Can you cable non-believers explain what internal psychological drives you to participating in threads that are of zero interest to you? It will be very useful from the mental point of view. Kinda of curiosity I have in humans train of thoughts. Is it because you feel like you need to intervene to save the OP’s money? Good Samaritan syndrome? Thank you |
That is true, but the increase in current might spike your amp draw by half an amp? You would have to be a massive amount of equipment to draw a total of 5 amps? Just saying the 15 amp service in the average home is not likely to fail. And even if it did, it would simply kick off the breaker on the main panel. If someone on this forum has a system drawing that much power, I'd love to see it. |
The 20 amp ratings relates to the total output your conditioner can supply. Not to be confused with the individual output capacity of each plugin on the back of the unit. As such, they recommend the conditioner be put on a 20 amp breaker. It reality, most people use a 20 to 15 amp plug converter so you can use the existing household outlet. Given that most systems, other than initial start-up, will only draw between 1 - 2 amp total, there is no problem running the "20 amp" conditioner on a 15 amp circuit. |
That makes a lot of sense. 15A inlets, esp with the female connectors having that notch in it, makes for a swiveling connection. I was advised, and will do it soon, to wrap the connection in Teflon tape to tighten the fit. That's one reason i went with a 32A Neutrik connector on my power conditioner...That sucker locks in. |
vinylshadow The 156 is a very good unit but I couldn't figure out why it had a 20A power cord and IEC inlet but 15A outlets ...That's like ARC, which ships preamps with 20A cords even though 15A would more than suffice. But ARC thinks the 20A plug results in a better grip, which makes some sense. |
@rixthetrick You make a good observation about total wattage used. It was recommended to me to try to figure that out. Your Wattage needs are below mine for sure. I have 2 350W Rowland Model 12's, 2 other Rowland amps for surround, a 75W Classe processor, a 450W plasma TV and 6 other lower current analog and digital source components. One factor was that I didn't want any surge suppression devices/technology in my power conditioner. The 156 is a very good unit but I couldn't figure out why it had a 20A power cord and IEC inlet but 15A outlets... Just to mention, the base UberBuss is $1195 and has upgraded outlets. I upgraded beyond that and had a few DigiBuss outlets substituted for standard. |
turnbowm You seem to be making some very broad assumptions which are simply wrong.That’s an interesting accusation but without an example it doesn’t mean anything. I’m well acquainted with series-mode and parallel-mode surge suppressors/conditioners and their design differences.Good for you. Have you ever actually measured Power Factor? What other tests have you done (or had done for you) on your AC line? Those are good first steps before choosing equipment to correct problems you may not even have. (And to be clear, I believe in power conditioning and use it in my system. Extensively. But not everyone beenfits to the same degree.) Here's another thing about PF: You utility has every reason to keep it as close to 1 as possible, because a negative Power Factor increases cost of power distribution. So if you truly suffer from bad PF, you're likely to be able to work with the utility to resolve it. |
