Just as I was about to purchase 3 Porter Ports yesterday, a friend of mine drew my attention to a new offering on the market, cryoed HBL 5362 by Cabledyne (www.cabledyne.com). Price wise there is considerable difference (as it appears to me): Porter Ports sell of $36 ea. + $12 shipping (for up to 3 units) against $25 each with free US shipping currently being offered by Cabledyne. My heart says Porter Port, but my mind -possibly biased by my friend - says Cabledyne. Would greatly appreciate the advice from and personal experience/comparison from fellow audiogoners. thank you in advance.
Not all stainless steel is non-magnetic the SS82 is non-magnetic. Leaning towards these as starting point and only $12 delivered for 4 (I only need 4, not 8). These can then be damped. Sadly wood insert ones not available for 2 gang, just 1 gang. I've got some dynamat like material from car audio that I may try.
Ordered 2 of the polished cryo'd P&S from Dave: 2 ea P&S 5362A(P) + shipping = $70.00
Haha the poor Maestro will be under some scrutiny.
I have two gang boxes so I’m lucky I can’t use 104-Ds. But Fim 308-2 is two gang (dual duplex) for $65 (aluminum). Oyaide has something like the 104-D in the WPC-Z2 for two gang and only $480 each.
I have two gang covers so that is TP82 instead of TP8. other letters like I stands for Ivory and CP for contractor pack. TP8ICP is ivory, contractor pack (10). "
Available in "TP" series, extra 3/16 inch width and height than Standard size plates; and "TPJ" series, extra 3/16 inch width and height than Junior-Jumbo size plates."
@lak, The TP is a junior jumbo size, see any issues with TPJ which is full on jumbo and even bigger? What about stainless steel?(see below discussion.)
After double taking on $480 for an outlet cover (FFS I would need 8 at nearly $4000, gad zooks). It may be time for DIY outlet covers. The late "Winston Ma discovered that the outlet cover makes an important contribution to the performance of his outlets. He evaluated a number of options, with interesting results. The cheap plastic covers used in residential construction are, as you might have guessed, sounded the worst. More rigid covers sounded better, especially those made from non-magnetic stainless steel. He also learned that installing shielding and damping material inside the cover plate paid huge dividends."
I’m thinking the TPJ style might be a good vehicle for tweeking (putty pads for outlet boxes, aluminum tape, copper foil, all on hand.) Also an option, Stainless steel plates much like the FIM 308 (stainless steel is nonmagnetic) and one then could provide vibration tuning/damping on the backside (essentially what the FIM 308 does). Fleabay has my double gang ones for $5 each delivered or 8 for $30. Any stainless steel will do as its all non-magnetic. $30 and supplies on hand sounds a lot better than $4000, haha.
@meles I run 10 gauge wire to my AC outlets also, and it’s a major pain to put outlets in and out, especially because my outlets are hard to get to.
Over the years I’ve tortured myself demoing various outlets. I’ve always preferred outlets that were cryogenically treated, after break in of course. That’s why I’m personally happy with my Furutech GTX-D Rhodium (R) outlets and am not planning on putting other outlets in or out...
I’m not saying there is nothing better, I’m just done switching those outlets in and out.
I had one Maestro outlet in my system and unfortunately, I was disappointed with it. Perhaps I had a bad one because the sucker broke (back strap) while it was in the outlet box after having the power cord plugged in and out about a dozen times. I also don’t think the Maestro outlet held up to the 10 gauge wire.
As far as wall plates are concerned, I do have a couple of the Furutech Duplex Cover Plates 104-D.
lak, have you messed with wall plates? I wonder at this development, but my 8 lines are actually housed in 4 dual duplex configurations. If cosmetics not an issue one wonders what the ambitious audio cheapskate might accomplish. I've also heard the GTX NCF is the cat's meow.
I've got some spec grade oddball hubbells in place that are unacceptable plus a gawd awful Cooper spec outlet from Lowes. 4 other slots are NOS HBL5362s from ebay on the under $10 delivered cheap. One Maestro which is the best.
I'm getting with Dave of P.I. Audio group who has polished cryo'd Pass&Seymour 5362As for $35 each (unpolished $25, and cryo'd P&S 5362 lower grade ones for only $10 each). He is user dBe over at audiocircle and responds to pms. This outlet might be superior to the Maestro and the new bargain champ.
Will get 1-2 of these P&S and try them out. I used to use a variety of power cords and switching in and out of my system was tedious. Hopefully I'll eventually have enough good receptacles in play to make some comments. Once installed its pretty easy to try them out, but I may rue swapping them in and out with the 10 guage wire likely to cause headaches.
A shame theaudiotweak did not report back in detail on the single outlet HBL5361s. I've unfortunately noticed with my own dual outlets that one receptacle tends to sound a tiny bit better than the other. With 5361 you know you're getting the job done with just one outlet to choose. With duals it seems like one wire is connected fairly direct to one outlet while the other is reliant on the clippable tab to conduct to the outer
lall's ranking of these receptacles is a bit odd: "
My overall ranking based on the above tests are as follows:- 1. Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362 2. Hubbell 8300 (non cryo) – old stock all copper version 3. Porter Ports 4. Legrand 5. FIM Gold 880"
lall visually verified that the Porter Port was identical to the Hubbell 8300H with the same copper backstrap. A bit shocking that the non cryo'd Hubbell beat the cryo'd one!
I've got a couple vintage stock Hubbell 5362s in my system and intend to get some vintage 8200Hs shortly (identical to 8300H except not a true 20 amp connector as the extra clip deleted.) I've got to up my boutique outlet game a bit as I have 8 dedicated lines, but other than a variety of Hubbells, just a lone Maestro outlet. I'd like to get the Cabledynes, but limited to 2 at $35 each plus $10 shipping ($80 for 2). Up from $25 per unit to $45 now; the price of fame.
Which outlet grips the power cord better between the Porter Ports and the 5362? The Porter Ports are supposed to have hospital grade contacts and the 5362 is industrial grade, so there might be a difference. Can anyone who has both do a quick test?
+1 Stringreen. I am impressed by how much the Maestro opened up my system. More refined, open and natural to me. For me that was going from a standard leviton outlet to the Maestro. It seemed like a change that I might experience if I sent my amp and source in and they upgraded all the signal components 1-2 levels. I was expecting a little improvement but not what I got.
I bought a Hubbell #IG5352 from Lowe’s. It is an isolated ground type. Cost was ~$11. Bought on a whim. Anyone know anything about how this outlet is related to those discussed above?
Hi guys...!..i do not have any link with Hubbell what so ever but have to Admit that I have last month replaced my oyaide R1 wall socket outlet for Hubbell HBL 5362 w...it´s so obviuse that i did no wait to replace my power cell ps.audio réceptacles ..there is a huge différence in compareson with ps.audio réceptacles..day And night..Hubbell are Much Much Much BETTER.....!!!!....woooooooo...do yourself a favor ..have a try. You won't regret....chahed
The 6 single, double cryo'd Hubbell 5361's I installed with all non ferrous hardware and stainless steel cover plates sound wonderful. Less to resonate. Tom
ARCAMGUY: You are welcome. I have added many more HBL5362s and now prefer them to the Furutechs after hundreds of hours of listening. Build quality is first rate.
I sent 8 Hubbell 5361 single outlets to be double cryo'd. I have 3 20 amp dedicated circuits in use and will replace the current FMS outlets with these. I have some 2024 aluminum 1/2 plate that I will have sized and cut to fit the outlets. These finished plates will be for wall mounting the outlets. The aluminum plates will be mechanically grounded to the concrete wall behind with brass rod and some special Audio Points. Tom
FYI all, I just received three new Porter Ports and these are Hubbell HBL5362W receptacles that are unplated and cryo treated (no green dots as shown on their website), so these should be virtually identical to the Cabledyne receptacles unless there are differences between the cryo treatments used. I did see that Cabledyne conditions their outlets on a Cable Cooker so I will do that myself with the Porter Ports. I am running some new circuits to make things easier to hook up. I currently have ACME outlets for my gear so will be interesting to compare.
Jeff, you should always have a quality wall outlet as it makes a big difference in sound. Why would you want to plug your expensive gear into a poorly made 39 cent contractor grade outlet? This is like finger nails on a chalkboard! LOL :)
Hello group, Very interesting discussion. Quick question: I am running my system out of a Furman Reference 15i power conditioner; I'm also using Shunyata Venom power cords with my components.
Would buying a better outlet make a difference, or would it be unnecessary and redundant, given what I'm already doing?
I don't mean to hijack a thread, but this seems to be a good place to ask that question.
Update: After several hundred hours I can say that the Hubbell HBL5362 bested some of my reference outlets. The only one that sounded warmer is the Furutech FPX copper. The Furutech GTX Rhodium was definitely brighter in my system. For the best overall balance the Hubbell is preferred. YMMV.
On a related point, I have some Porter Ports and now looking to buy some grey cover plates to use with them. Any idea where I can source these? It would need to be online as I live in Brazil. Thanks
Going with the Hubbell 5361 all brass single outlet. Will have to make my own custom mounted face plate 6 of them all double cryo'd out of .5 inch aluminum plate. These will be mechancally grounded. I now use the Furutech copper IEC connectors on my power cords. Tom
I have one R-1 outlet. They are plated. Beryllium copper is the base metal which is harder than pure copper to provide a spring contact. In my listening tests, I find Platinum, Palladium, and Rhodium to sound similar (brighter). Gold contacts are warmer and pure unplated brass (Hubbell outlet) is somewhere in the middle. Just be sure to use the same metal/plating on your power cords for the best sound.
sorry to gatecrash here. Need Oyaide R1 experts input on the specification of the R1. pls see extract from their site. May I confirm that the Beryllium Copper contact is finished/covered with inner platinum layer of 0.5 microns thick and the outer palladium layer of 0.3 microns thick?
Just want to be sure that no Beryllium Copper is exposed, a little paranoid here as I have two small kids at home.
Plating Process To complete the R-1, the manufacturing process is started from foundation coating. The material which was punched out as a part is polished by hand piece by piece after machined barrel-polishing. The plating of the R-1 is a combination of platinum and palladium which was selected as a result of repeated listening tests. The inner platinum layer is 0.5 microns thick and the outer palladium layer is 0.3 microns thick.
Contact The contact of the R1 is made of beryllium copper-same as the F1/M1 series using a new and high level of performance. The use of heat treated beryllium copper insures mechanical integrity and high conductivity. It is 1.0mm thick and 6.0mm in width, reducing vibration at the point of contact with no loss of signal transmission.
As you know there comes a time when one grows tired of making all the comparisons and tweaks and just wants to relax and enjoy the music. I believe thats where I am now at this particular time in life. A few years ago (or more LOL) I stopped auditioning outlets and I fell behind the curve of knowledge, but I still enjoy reading these posts :-).
Hdm, thanks for your suggestions regarding moving up to the Oyaide/Furutech outlets. During my shootout, I found out that almost each and every piece of equipment/cable/outlet etc. imparts its own character/flavour to the final music i was hearing. Since my system is quite revealing, i could make out the difference whenever i changed equipments or cables within seconds. In my system I have now achieved a very satisfactory level of performance with a nice balance between resolution, bass, tonality, sweetness and glare (or lack of it). So I am apprehensive in trying new things at this stage as I am certain that the outlets you suggest will change/alter what i am presently hearing. In my system and for my taste it may be a good or not so good thing. So am not prepared to take that risk at least for some time.
Let me tell you that I have two speaker cables (Cardas Golden Hexlink 5C and the ultra expensive Jorma Unity but on most music i am playing, I prefer the Cardas to the Jorma. This is my taste and maybe the special aspects of my room acoustics and overall system make that combination sound great to me and my taste. Hope you understand.
If you like the cryoed HBL 5362 (and there is a lot to like about it), I'd recommend that you leap from the mid tier Furutech and Oyaide receptacles and move right up to the Oyaide R1 or R0 or the Furutech GTX (and their respective wall plates).
I have a cryoed Oyaide R1 (in the WPC-Z wall plate which I bought heavily discounted on Ebay); it's important to understand that, unlike Furutech, Oyaide does not cryo their receptacles. My experience with the R1 is that it is better cryoed. Furutechs come cryoed in stock form-if you want cryo with Oyaide you'll need to seek out a seller who has the units cryoed.
A non cryoed R1 is, interestingly, still better than a cryoed HBL 5362, and a cryoed R1 better still but the R1 has a very similar sonic signature to the HBL 5362. Think of them as cryoed HBL 5362's on steroids.
The new Oyaide R0 is getting some rave reviews and the Furutech GTX (in either rhodium or gold-rhodium should be a bit more detailed and forward, gold a bit more laid back so choose your poison) is also extremely highly thought of and preferred by some who have experience with both the Furutech and Oyaide.
So some interesting options out there but they are pricey when you look at R1/R0 or Furutech GTX with their respective wall plates.
Finally, the two R1's that I've used (cryoed and non-cryoed) required extensive burn in. If they are not conditioned on something like the Audiodharma before being shipped, or not burned in on a high current device like a fridge or chest freezer for a least a month, they are going to be a bit bright and etched. My recommendation would be to purchase from a Vendor (like Cabledyne) who preconditions the receptacle on the Audiodharma before shipping it out.
Even with heavy preconditioning on the Audiodharma, the cryoed R1 I ended up with took a good 4-5 days to settle; without that it would have been 30 days plus, possibly longer.
I am now curious to compare the HBL5362 with some of the high end outlets. The Furutech FPX Gold is copper instead of brass. I ordered it from Cabledyne. I also ordered a Oyaide Power Receptacle SWO-GX+ ULTIMO Gold from Revolution Audio. Long Labor Day weekend for me.
Sonic genius, Hdm and Lak: i sincerely appreciate your comments but i have to give credit to you guys and your previous posts on this site which pushed me into trying out new outlets. I must say that with the addition in my system of the 3 new outlets, as well as the Fusion Audio Romance IC2 & JPS 3 interconnects and the GE 6550A tubes, i have now achieved the level of performance i was aiming for a long time.
I have to say that the Cabledyne 5362 is the HBL 5362 cryoed which cost me $25 ea. including shipping & paypal fees.
HDM, the two Porter Porters i used were well broken in as they had been in use for more than a year by a friend who loaned them out to me for the shootout. On the other hand the HBL 8300 and the Cabledyne HBL 5362 were brand new but with some 15 days break in. I would be perfectly happy if i find no further change in performance of the Cabledynes with time as i already like what i am hearing.
Also, yes the Porter Ports and the Hubbell 8300s (non-cryo) are almost identical, physically speaking. Also they have identical gold (or copper) coloured back straps. No silver/nickel colour back straps. It may well be that the only difference between the two is the cryo treatment.
But the Cabledyne HBL 5362 is much thicker and heavier than the Porter Ports, HBL 8300 or the FIMs. Almost 50% bigger (deeper) and heavier. From the front however, they are of the same dimensions and thus the same faceplate fits nicely into each and every outlet tested.
My Kharma Grand Ref. power cords are very thick and terminated with ultra big US type plugs/connectors. The bigger/deeper Cabledyne outlets certainly provided a tighter grip for them. With the FIMs, these powercords were quite lose in the outlets and the only way to prevent them from coming out was to put a small vertical stand/support under each Kharma plugs. No such problems encoutered with the Cabledynes. Withe the Porter Ports and the Hubbell 8300s, the grip was tighter than the FIMs probably because these outlets were still new and their grips worked well though not as tight as the Cabledynes.
The Cabledyne is a cyoed version of the standard industrial grade Hubbell HBL5362, according to what i read from their website.
Also for those using 6550/KT88 tubes in their systems, i would strongly recommend trying out the GE 6550 tubes before splashing out serious money on other equipments. In my system, the performance jump compared to my Gold Lions and the very expensive KR KT88 was nothing less than phenomenal. The music became so clean clean clean... refined, with a bloom in the midrange.. almost orgasmic sensation...and am not kidding! It costs nothing to try.
I was about to spend come $10K on new speakers (the Kharmas weere giving me serious head and ear aches) but the addition of the Cabledynes, JPS 3, Fusion Audio and GE 6550 tubes have now helped me to better appreciate my Kharmas.
I will shortly update the equipments list of my system on my audiogon page to to listed above in this thread.
Thanks for that. A lot of work, as I well know. Not a lot of surprises there for me but perhaps one. I can see the P&S Legrand and the FIM finishing where they did as they are such very different receptacles, almost polar opposites I think; you definitely cannot describe either one as being anything close to neutral!
I don't know much about the Cabledynes (but have a lot of experience with cryoed HBL 5362's) but if they were broken in by the manufacturer before shipping on something like the Audiodharma cable cooker, this would have a pretty big effect on things-my thought is that the Porter Ports, if they were brand new, still might need another week or two of break in.
The old Hubbell 8300H is a very good receptacle (and one that Albert used to use for the Porter Ports). I'm curious: do the Porter Ports have a strong physical resemblance to the 8300H (non-cryo) that you have there?
Do they have the same physical dimensions (ie. substantially shallower than the Cabledyne 5362) as the old stock 8300H's you have and do the current Porter Ports have the same brass (gold coloured) backstrap as the old stock 8300H's that you used or do they appear to have a (silver) steel backstrap?
Lall: Great review, far more complete than mine. Thanks for your efforts.
I also found the Leviton isolated ground outlet (brass contacts) to sound fairly good but the Hubbell HBL5362 (Cabledyne Cryoed) is still tops in my system. The Hubbell 8300 nickel plate was horrific in the highs!
System Used: - CD player – Audio Aero Capitole Ref SE - Preamp – de Havilland Mercury 2 - Power Amp – KR Audio VT 8000 monos (push pull using GE 6550A tubes) - Speakers – Kharma 1.2 CRM with Revelator tweeters - Power cords: A pair of Kharma Grand Ref (on CD and Preamp) and a pair of Harmonix Studio Master (on mono amps) - Interconnects – CD to Preamp: JPS Labs Superconductor 3 Preamp to amps: various (JPS Labs Superconductor 3; Fusion Audio Romance IC2 & Harmonix Golden Performance SUS) - Speaker cables – Jorma UNITY & Cardas Golden Hexlink 5C
- Dedicated Audio Room 16 ft x 24 ft; sloping ceiling height 8ft to 20ft
- 3 Dedicated power lines each connected to a duplex receptacle.
- Walls are in concrete with some room treatments. Fully carpeted room.
- Caveat: my room is quite lively; my Kharmas are known to be bright, hence I consider my system to be more bright than neutral.
- All outlets were burnt in for at least 15 days immediately prior to the tests.
- Music played during the tests: Diana Krall; Alison Krauss (Jacobs’ dream); Vivaldi (four seasons "Winter" by Iona Brown); Eric Satie (solo pianos); Nils Lofgren (Acoustic Live); Carmen sings for Kharma; Naim CD sampler; Kenny G (saxophone); and various other classical albums.
Prior to the shootout, I was using a separate FIM Gold 880 duplex receptacle to power each mono amp; and a Legrand duplex outlet for my CD and Preamp.
The shootout comprised four different sets of tests:
Test 1: I successively replaced the two FIM Gold outlets by the test receptacles [Porter Ports, Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362; Hubbell 8300 (non cryo)] while keeping the source equipments plugged into the Legrand outlet
Test 2: Same as Test 1 with the only change being the source equipments now connected to a third Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362 duplex outlet.
Test 3: Same as Test 1 except that the Legrand outlet was replaced by a FIM Gold 880 outlet.
Test 4: Same as Test 1 except that the Legrand outlet was replaced by a Hubbell 8300 outlet.
RESULTS & OVERALL FINDINGS
FIM GOLD – Big and powerful bass, but soft rounded up sound and somewhat bloated bass and at times lacking liveliness and dynamism especially in large orchestral swings and female vocals.
PORTER PORTS – Clean and powerful extended treble and generally very good on vocals and piano. A tad thin but I noticed its aggressivity and glare on a number of tracks especially classicals. Nearly bled my ears out during Vivaldi’s Four seasons violin track performed by Iona Brown and at high volumes.
CABLEDYNE HUBBELL 5362 (Cryo) – Good overall outlet, with powerful solid and generally tight bass, with a sweet top end. Non fatiguing, natural sounding and very listenable during extended periods of time and high volumes. On some tracks, the bass was a bit bloated and lacked some liveliness compared to the Porter Ports.
HUBBELL 8300 (non cryo but all copper version old stock item) – Surprisingly good outlet at times very close to Porter Ports and at other times closer to the Cabledyne 5362. Good bass and treble, non fatiguing, less aggressive than Porter Ports (on same tracks) but definitely without the sweet top end of the Cabledyne 5362.
LEGRAND – Very lively but also with considerable glare hence considered as being bright in my system. When replaced by the FIM Gold on my source equipments (CD & Preamp), the sound became too laid back and flat and not enjoyable at all. When replaced by Porter Ports and Cabledyne, and Hubbell 8300, my system got back a good portion of the liveliness but without the glare. This outlet may do wonders in awakening a dull system.
In conclusion, in my system and room acoustics, I found the Cabledyne 5362 outlets to be a considerably better match for taste than the other outlets used. My system is now completely wired through these three Cabledyne outlets. I like the honest sound, not overemphasized bass or treble, sweet top end and also its ability to remove glare from my system. Is the Cabledyne the ultimate or perfect outlet for my system? Certainly not as at times I would have preferred a tighter bass on some tracks but at the end of the day I really liked the sweet top end it added to my listening.
The Hubbell 8300s (non cryo – all copper version) deserve a special mention and I could have easily lived with them. Considering the price I paid ($2.50 each on ebay), this should be one of my best ever purchases. I will therefore use these two outlets in my second system.
The Porter Ports are a good honest outlet which may probably outperform the other outlets in a less brighter system and for those looking for a neutral sound.
My overall ranking based on the above tests are as follows:- 1. Cabledyne Cryoed Hubbell 5362 2. Hubbell 8300 (non cryo) – old stock all copper version 3. Porter Ports 4. Legrand 5. FIM Gold 880
I wish to stress that the above findings & conclusions are the results of my own, independent, unbiased, honest and personal tests in my specific system at my home place. I have absolutely no connections whatsoever with any of the above tested products or their manufacturers/marketers.
Results: my shootout is almost complete with 5 different outlets (a pair of duplexes tested in each case) - Hubbell 5362 Cryo (from Cabledyne) - Porter Ports - Hubbell 8300 (non cryo) - FIM 880 Gold - Legrand Am in process of writing the detailed findings. Will post them within a day or two.
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