Peter Lederman in Second Bout With COVID-19
@devilboy Message for you from a hospital administrator in Missouri: https://twitter.com/sdecoxhealth/status/1410615681465262084?s=21 |
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@devilboy Wrong. Most certainly not in that age group, nor am I left leaning in my political stance. I am decidedly non partisan. You however, sound like you don’t have a passport and have never left your own zip code, hence the regressive and ignorant viewpoints. And yes, I was born and raised in Norway. Have lived both in Scandinavia and North America. Remember when the Cheeto in Charge wanted Norwegians to move to the US? He wanted the well educated, skilled and well to do people Norway had to offer? Yeah, they were not interested… You are confusing something for communism. Do some research on the Scandinavian countries. That is what the “left” wants for America. Free education, free healthcare etc. Oh wait, that would require the ability to think outside of your own little box. And, it’s people who live with the kinds of fears, paranoia and ignorance that the right preys upon. They know that there are large segments of the population who feel they have not been given their fair share. Entitlement is gross. Add being lazy to that, and you are ripe to be targeted for radicalization. |
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The unfortunate thing about facts is that they are immutable or you might say you don't believe in the virus but the virus definitely believes in you. On the vaxxed unvaxxed divide: Nationwide, the number of new Covid-19 cases is holding steady. But that steadiness hides two dueling realities, in two different Americas. In many urban and suburban communities, Covid continues to plummet. The rate of new daily cases has fallen below three per 100,000 residents in large cities like Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Houston, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Washington. As a point of comparison, the national rate of new daily cases peaked last winter above 75 per 100,000 people. But in less populated areas — which tend to be more politically conservative and skeptical of vaccines — the virus is now surging, largely from the contagious Delta variant. The states with the worst outbreaks are Arkansas and Missouri (each with more than 16 new daily cases per 100,000 people) followed by Florida (10), Nevada (10), Wyoming (nine) and Utah (eight). If these outbreaks were concentrated among younger people, it would be less worrisome, because Covid, including the Delta variant, is overwhelmingly mild for children and young adults. Yet even many middle-aged and older adults are not vaccinated in parts of the U.S. They are catching the virus as a result, and some are dying. Dead people are dead people not statistics and we're at 600,000 and counting in this country, it's time to shutup take the vaccine and save some lives. |
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There were clinical trials done for the Covid vaccines. And right now one could state there is a comprehensive trial being done with a resounding sucess rate. What is truly concerning is the lack of vaccines for so many third world countries. Giant Petri dishes for new variants and mutations with the potential to be resistant to the present vaccines, not to mention possible new even more virulent symptoms. Get vaccinated yesterday, talk to your doctor yesterday. Quit trying to be the smartest person in the room. Best wishes to Peter. |
jpwarren58 "What is truly concerning is the lack of vaccines for so many third world countries." It is indeed concerning. It wouldn't be happening if the formulas were being shared, but rocking secure and profitable boats are in the best interests of certain groups' bottom lines, pandemics be damned. Guess there aren't any Jonas Salks around any more. |
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Iso, Wrong. Total BS. Flembo, The molecular biology required to produce either of the two RNA vaccines is not a big secret. It's not even new technology. However, manufacturing a vaccine is not a trivial pursuit, if you want consistency of manufacture, safety, and purity. Getting the RNA and the lipids that form an envelope for the RNA together is a sophisticated process that not just anyone can do with a cookbook. In my opinion, abrogation of the patents might not get us anywhere except into more hot water, where a plethora of new less sophisticated manufacturers are making vaccines without strict controls and supervision by regulatory authorities, in part because there might be too many of them to oversee adequately. The FDA has a limited number of persons with the scientific skills required to review and regulate all these efforts; such individuals have been working their butts off for the past 18 months. We already see how difficult it is to get acceptance by the public (and certain persons on this thread). All we need is a bad batch made by an inexperienced company to legitimately alienate the public, but more importantly a bad batch could result in hundreds of thousands or millions of persons who think they are protected but in fact are not, because they received a bad product. The major issue in producing sufficient doses of the vaccines hinges on the very fact that so many hundreds of millions of doses are needed. The potential need is unprecedented in history. Yet there is not an unlimited supply of the many "ingredients" (enzymes, ribonucleotides that are the building blocks of RNA, various chromatography supplies needed to purify the RNA, etc) that are required to synthesize huge amounts of RNA or of the very specific lipids needed to package them. This also affects companies, other than Pfizer and Moderna, who are still in development of new RNA-based COVID vaccines. Many of them are stymied because the supply of the raw materials to make RNA and the supply of lipids and agents needed for purification, such as it is, is funneled to Moderna and Pfizer preferentially, because they are the ones with the EUAs. In order to get on the preferred list, a company needs to make it all the way to a phase 3 trial. Such legitimate efforts are caught right now in a Catch-22, until the supply chain is beefed up. So even if there were no patents, I doubt the supply of vaccine(s) could be rapidly increased. I also think this problem (lack of doses) now mostly applies to the rest of the world. By now in the US it seems that anyone who wants to be vaccinated can get vaccinated. We are down to those who don't want to be vaccinated, at this point. |
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Iso, the mRNA vaccines contain: -the purified synthetic mRNA encoding the COVID surface glycoprotein -4 lipids; one is cholesterol, one is phosphatidyl choline, one is a cationic lipid that helps the lipid nanoparticle deliver the mRNA to the cytoplasm/ribosomes, and one is a PEG lipid. -There are the usual salts, pH buffers, maybe a few sugars. But that is it. |
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The mRNA in the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines actually encode only a few hundred or fewer amino acids of one specific region of the surface glycoprotein, S, which is overall about 900 amino acids in length. That region being the Receptor Binding Domain. Thus they both elicit a panoply of antibodies directed only at that domain. Given the absolute dependence of the SARS-CoV2 virus on the ACE2 receptor for entry into cells, that is likely to be why the two vaccines work more or less on every variant so far known; there is only so much genetic variability in that domain that will still permit efficient receptor binding. In effect, the capacity of the virus to evade the immune response elicited by the vaccines without a reduction in its binding affinity for ACE2 is very limited. Woe unto us if the virus ever "learns" to use some other cellular surface protein as its ticket to cell entry. Most other human pathogenic viruses are not so limited as is SARS-CoV2. |
There was no long-term testing on this "vaccine". This is an experimental drug and no one has a clue as to how it’s going to affect people a year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now. We are basically getting handed something that, on paper, may seem safe. Thalidomide seemed safe on paper as well. Google, "Thalidomide babies" to see what happened to babies after pregnant women took it. Babies born with severe heart defects, severe birth defects, no arms or legs, no appendages. The lucky ones died at birth. I’m sure the virologists working on vaccines for the pharmaceutical companies had good intentions with it. Best of luck to anyone who took the vaccine. Personally, I’ll lick a coronavirus infested doorknob before I get stuck with that poison that’s going to alter my DNA. No thank you. Knock wood, I don’t know anyone who has passed from covid. However, I do know people that have died within 3 months of getting the vaccine. I know people including my 30-year-old ex-girlfriend who was very healthy up until the vaccine. Now, she is in and out of the hospital for weeks with heart problems. |
@devilboy your post is ill-informed and the correlations you infer are not correlations at all. It is the equivalent of saying that a drowning victim actually died from trying to breath water. Don't get the shot(s) if you don't want to but it is absolutely irresponsible of you to post what you posted. Your dna, for better or worse, would not be modified by taking the vaccine. Best of health to you Mr. Lederman. |
Nice jab, ghasley with the, "for better or worse." And likewise. If you want to take the vaccine then take it. But don’t fault me for not taking it. What happens with the delta variant? Or the lambda variant? Or the epsilon variant now? If the original coronavirus shot won’t be effective towards these variants, then what is everyone going to do? Is everyone just going to get some sort of booster or an altogether new vaccine every 6 months? Every 12 months? Are people going turn into walking Petri dishes? When does it end? Here’s a thought...please enlighten me if I’m wrong which this crowd would take much enjoyment from, but... Are the variants happening because of the vaccine? Because people are vaccinated, is the virus mutating and turning into a variant because of the vaccinated people? Would it not have been better if no one ever got vaccinated and we just let herd immunity kick in? I know I’m not liked amongst the readers of this thread and I’m fine with that. But I have major reservations about this supposed vaccine and, as I’ve said before, I believe that our reaction to this was worse than the problem itself. |
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Hello.....The two mRNA vaccines and the adenovirus-vectored vaccines are all more or less effective against all the variants so far, including the delta variant. This information is all over the news and even on Youtube. Try again. Furthermore, it is a simple matter for the two RNA vaccines to be re-derived so as to cope with any variant down the road that may prove resistant to the antibodies induced by the present formulae. As far as I am concerned, you are not disliked. You are misinformed and very verbal about your bad information. You are salvageable, my son. At least as far as your COVID beliefs are concerned. One school of thought is that the variants recur because of the large numbers of people who are NOT vaccinated. The vaccines seem to prevent any significant virus replication in persons who have been vaccinated. This is actually an unusually good result, as vaccines go. If the virus cannot replicate, it cannot mutate. There is another reason for you to get vaccinated, if there is a soupcon of altruism in your bones. Johnny, So far as I know, Peter is out of the hospital weeks ago and back to work. He seems to be doing fine. The vaccine thing has a life of its own. I am sorry for the trend, but I hate to let ignorance have its way when I see it right in front of me here. |
Two things: 1) It seems people comment to change the subject to Peter every time I list my thoughts but when other people list theirs, apparently okay to keep going. 2) So apparently Peter is out of the hospital. That's fantastic news! So happy that Peter is back on his feet and doing well. Congratulations Peter. So that's twice that you have went toe to toe with covid and kicked its ass. Congratulations! |
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More popcorn please. For those that have zero scientific /medical based background trying to argue based on google searches with research based scientists or medical doctors with 1000s of patients, I applaud you for your conviction but not your intelligence. It’s beyond embarrassing at this point. Not sure what you all actually do to make a living, but imagine if other ignorant neophytes in your field challenged you, your education and your experiences. Yeah, let it sink in. |
Ah, leave it to this crowd for the ad hominems. You’re all very good at it. Not tolerant of anyone else’s opinion that differs from yours, which is typical. I’ll say it again, for the umpteenth time, our reaction to covid was far worse than the virus itself. The body count simply isn’t there to JUSTIFY THE LOCKDOWN. How many businesses will never open again? How many foreclosures on mortgages? How much drug abuse? Alcohol abuse? Domestic violence? Suicide? A gross over reaction to a bad flu. At what price? |
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@devilboy I will try a different tack. You have dug in to your position but I am aware of a number of people who suffer from lingering effects post covid. You know people you believe suffer from post vaccine effects. Never in the history of mankind has there been a larger clinical trial if you want to think of it that way. Take the shot or don't, it's your decision. (I'm about to insert some sarcastic humor) Have you considered taking the vaccine but not tell anyone? That way no one would feel you abandoned them and the cause. Imagine if you didn't get sick, you didn't assist mutation (which takes place in a host) and you would be assisting the effort to achieve real herd immunity. You might feel so good that you could join the effort to suppress the vote or deny climate change? Seriously, I care about you because you have some bad data. I lost my mother before there was a vaccine. She was in every high risk category but that doesn't mean another dinner together wouldn't have been nice. All of the reasons you have stated as logical for not taking the vaccine could be said for almost any medicine you have ever taken before without questioning the trial. Anyone who had a serious Covid case would have gladly traded taking the vaccine (other than a couple on here who have gone all in politically). Once again, whether you do or don't isn't that big of a deal to me but retrace your last week and I am 100% certain you have put something in your body each day which wouldn't clear the hurdle you have tried to apply to the vaccine. It's your life, or Peter's life or the life of your loved ones. |
Characterising covid like "a bad flu" dont reveal great understanding... And destroy all other rightful affirmations someone could make alas! Sorry... And it is more a political bias that is not very inspiring for me.... It seems like in audio thread that life problem cannot be understood by ideology....But only from the perspective of many fields of research.... It seems that peircing the veil of misinformation is very difficult if our blinders are unacknowledged... It seems that the actual situation CANNOT be understood only by medecine , politic, economy, psychology, ideology, all these fields apart and many other one, sorry.... Self or external censorship is destruction of human soul.... I am very sad....By all this.... And the actual situation of this world.... Take all care of your health..... inform yourself..... think..... without blinders and think with all the facts and these facts are not visible through only one field....It takes many fields perspective to begin to understand the world where we have entered unconsciously decades ago but consciously only after covid... My best to all and very respectfully the better health possible.... |
@theophile Thank you for the kind words. Unbelievable. This group has had contempt for my difference of opinions since day one but no one has actually wished death upon me. I wish you and your loved ones good health, happiness and good fortune in life. I actually would like to thank you for giving me reason not to follow this thread any longer. I'm not going to start my day with someone wishing for my demise first thing in the morning. It's simply not worth it. At the onset, I was hoping that I could exchange my opinions and hear a difference of opinion from other people and each side could see this issue from a different angle. It certainly hasn't turned out that way. With that, I'm out. |
