Options for $1k or less DAC?

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions.  

fwiw, just wanted to update everyone on the decision.  I ended up going with the "tone board":
https://www.khadas.com/tone

At just $100 + $5 for the enclosure, its worth an audition.  Reviewers seem to like it (alot), and it punches way above its weight class.  The Tone V2 adds a few more options, I might look at that too once it's released.  You can even add a separate "VIM" board to turn it into a DIY streamer of sorts.  

+1 on the Denafrips Ares II. The one caveat is that to my ears there might be some harshness, but less harshness than many other DACs under $1k from reviews I've read (i.e., Topping D90 as a prime example of a DAC with the opposite type of sound from the Denafrips DACs).

Also, my impressions are that the Ares can sound better with certain USB cables & power cords. I’ll start off by saying that I was skeptical of the sonic benefits of USB cables and especially of the effect of a power cord on a DAC, but listened with an open mind. I was loaned several USB cables (and bought some decent but inexpensive USB cables) and several power cords. The USB cable that sounded best was a Phasure Lush (https://stordiau.com/products/lush-usb-audio-cable-70cm) that seems to reduce the Ares’ tendency toward some sibiliance. The power cord that sounded best was a Synergistic UEF Black (https://www.synergisticresearch.com/cables/coreuef/uef-black/)Again, this power cord also seemed to reduce any perceived harshness from the Ares perhaps by either adding less electrical noise or perhaps by better channeling of electrical noise away from the DAC. I’m impressed by the Ares II, but am considering getting a Denafrips Pontus for slightly more refinement than the Ares II (and so I might be able to avoid spending $400-500 on cables to get something that sounds as good as the Ares II / Phasure Lush USB cable / Synergistic Research UEF Black power cord combination is currently sounding).

See some NAD M51s around for well under 1k. I'm kinda eying them myself.

@bajaed ,
The Node's internal DAC isn't bad for the money, but if you do go the Schiit route- buy the Gungnir or Yggy. Anything lower and you'll be spinning your wheels- IMHO.
Probably better to find a used Codex.
Bob

Just signed up w Tidal. Next will be getting a Bluesound Node 2i to test the streaming world. Will possibly add a Schiit DAC later if I'm not thrilled with the Node's sound.

op

Anyway, I’m not sure how this translates to the HiFi world knowing that we all want clean / clear power for our listening. But when I see tube dacs for $500-$800 I’m skeptical.

don’t be - they are for real... i have tried many if not all of the contenders in the $500 to $2000 range... mhdt makes several models based on r2r nos chips, all w tube output, even their more expensive models can be found used for under $1000 - but when they appear on audiogon or us audiomart, and are snapped up pretty much straight away

jolida/black ice, as mesch mentioned, also makes a tube output dac... also very good (but not quite as good as the mhdt’s)

frank van alstine/ava also has made excellent dacs less than a grand in cost, with tubed output stages that sound very natural

if you do research you will also see mention of a border patrol tube dac around $1000 used... i would suggest you pass on that one... the tube is used in the power supply section... not in the output stage, and its sound quality, while good, does not represent as good a value as others mentioned

there is also a chi-fi dac by musical paradise that is tubed output -- it has seen some good reviews but i have not tried it in my own system (i personally lean against direct marketed chi fi stuff as there is questionable support if anything goes awry...)

bear in mind also that to get a full, natural ’more musical presentation’ than the more common treble-centric robotic-sounding dacs, using tubed output is not the only solution -- ayre codex and metrums octave/amethyst are two others that provide an ’analog-like’ sweet and dimensional sound profile under $1000 used...

good luck have fun happy holidays

I appreciate all the suggestions on tubes.  Having build a few tube guitar amps and the Bottlehead Crack, I'm definitely sold on the technology.  However, I've always thought that you have to spend way more than $1k to get a unit that does it "right".

...to help quantify the above -- In the guitar world there are loads of pedals and gear that have a single 12a*7 in a preamp section to warm up the sound; all while keeping the power section solid state.  I'm sure it matters to some extent to the sound, but most of the magic of guitar tube sound comes from an over driven power section.  The difference in pricepoint between the two different configurations are typically double or triple. 

Anyway, I'm not sure how this translates to the HiFi world knowing that we all want clean / clear power for our listening.  But when I see tube dacs for $500-$800 I'm skeptical.  

Having said all of that, I'm *not* interested in an analytical presentation of music which perhaps is another vote for tubes (at a high level).

If interested in a DAC with tube output:

MHDT make DACs under $1000.

The Jolida/Black Ice DAC is on sale for $700  by Underwood HIFI.

@jjss49 There are things I prefer about the sound of the MHDT Labs Orchid, it is smoother and a little easier to listen to than the Bifrost.  The OP asked about DACs under $1K.  If they can stretch their budget then the Orchid is more than worthy of consideration.  

In terms of the systems I have heard the Bifrost in, the first was in my friend's system which at the time consisted of a Line Magnetic LM-805iA and Harbeth 40.2 speakers.  One of the best sounding systems I've heard.  The system I use mine in is a small near-field system consisting of a Simaudio 600i and Harbeth P3ESRs.  In both cases, the Bifrost is using USB, which it seems to do very well.

Not putting down the OP's system, but at the level it is currently at, the Bifrost would be the best component in their system.

As to my hearing, I'll pretend I didn't hear that comment.

Today, I am using this DAC with the Benchmark HPA4 preamp.
https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/matrix-audio-mini-i-pro-3-third-time-s-a-charm/

It sounds great with my headphones, Meze Empy + Topping A90 amp. I am going back and forth whether I like it on my uber revealing 2 channel system. This DAC will eventually go back to headphone duties so it does not matter

It has the following features and very good sound for $899 MSRP (I bought for $749 on Black Friday)

- 7 filters with graphics to show the frequency curves
- Beautiful screen that shows album cover
- MQA
- AirPlay2, Wifi, Ethernet, Android connectivity via Bluetoooth codecs such as AptX-HD and LDAC
- Remote
- Coaxial, Optical, IIS LVDS, USB Audio, Bluetooth and Streaming
- ROON READY (soon)
- Headphone (never tried it)
- Preamp and volume control (I do not use it)

all rhetoric aside, if big_greg is trying to lead the op and other readers to believe the schitt bifrost is an equally good sounding or a better sounding dac than a mhdt stockholm 2 or orchid, that belief would be rather incorrect imo

based on my comparisons, the mhdt dacs outperform not just schiit’s bifrost (mb) but also their gumby and yggy for overall musicality, finesse and coherence ... the bifrost has a warm midrange and bloated midbass that obscures, and a sibilance problem in the lower treble -- the yggy solves the sibilance problem but delivers a rather ’hifi’/accentuated treble that is rather disembodied from the rest of the music, something akin to a speaker with a ribbon tweeter poorly integrated with the mid/bass drivers

saying the bifrost ’holds it own’ is a matter of personal taste and how much allowance for poorer sound one allows in their system and with their hearing -- a samsung smartphone ’holds it own’ against a top flight hifi dac in that it also transmits the music... but it sounds much worse

my 2 cents

ymmv, which obviously it did with greg

@jjss49 try a search for "rhetorical".

op

search is your friend

big greg ---->>>  https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mhdt-labs-dacs

And how much does that Stockholm 2 cost?  Did you read the thread title?

I'll add to the others that the MHDT DACs sound wonderful, very musical and detailed.  I just switched to a MGDT Stockholm v2 and love the sound

The Schiit Bifrost 2 is quite good and well under your budget.  I have a TEAC NT-505 streamer/dac, MHDT Labs Orchid, Sony TA-ZH1ES headphone amp (which includes a great DAC) to compare it to, and have owned the Auralic Vega.  The Bifrost holds its own.

Lots of choices in the under $1,000 used marketplace.

Schitt, Denafrips, Chord, Ayre, LKS,... take your pick. All are solid performers.

It all depends on how it integrates with the rest of your chain and if you like the result.

Thanks for the suggestions so far everyone.  

Piggybacking off of the USA DAC thread -- schiit bi-frost is getting alot of recommendations. I've also been looking at the BorderPatrol SE and Mytak Brooklyn Bridge (both used would come in just below $1k).  

Being new to DACs should I expect the same difference of say a $100 phono pre and a $1k phono pre?  Big difference to be sure.  Not sure if it's the same in the digital world.     

I'll give Qobuz a try eventually.  Amazon's "Ultra HD" will top out at 24/192, but my guess is Qobuz has them beat in terms of content though.  Everything else is on Amazon 16/44.1.  Heh... plus, if I make the switch the kids can't steal the streaming connection!


  

Good suggestions so far, if you wanna pursue a tube DAC,

https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mhdt-labs-dacs

“The differences that show up between streaming services / quality is likely minimal.”

That’s not my experience. With a good DAC, you should be able to discern differences in SQ. Sign up for Qobuz trial and let your ears guide you. 

for under 1K, would go with the Denafrips Ares II. Have not heard all dacs, but its the best I have heard for under a kilobuck. and will do both USB and SPDIFF inputs.

A used Ayre Codex would be my recommendation.
-Switching from Spotify to Qobuz will show a definite improvement upon sound quality.
B