Oh come on man. Stereophile are pros. They have a separate photographer to take pics of their equipment. This (seems) like a regular guys like us. I love audio first and photography next. Can't go that wrong :-)
Oppo’s response (after extensive checking with their engineering group and numerous back-and-forth communication) to the source direct problem I pointed out is that "the unit was not operating correctly prior to the latest firmware" and has since been corrected. They go on to write "so like I said last week the videos that are not 4:3 or 16:9 will be sent out as 16:9, and the television or scaler can correct for them."
That response is despite my submitting PROOF (including but not limited to the video file itself and complete specifications of the video) that the very same video that the UDP-205 cannot play with the correct aspect ratio *in any one of its modes* let alone source direct plays perfectly fine and with the correct aspect ratio when played via the USB port on my (pro-calibrated) Samsung UN65KS9800.
I have asked Oppo to have their product management intervene (render feedback at a minimum). In other words, I maintain that the way Oppo currently states the unit should work (in this regard), *should not* be the way the Oppo UDP-205 works in this regard. A video other than 4:3 or 16:9 *should* be output as X:Y, whatever X:Y happens to be, when in source direct mode. Instead, the UDP-205 STRETCHES the video and by their own admission this is by design.
At the moment the only alternative is to send the unit in so that the firmware can be restored back to the WORKING CORRECTLY prior version.
It doesn't matter what your current scenario is, it's entirely possible to realize a sq improvement with any upgrade. That it may still not be optimal overall is irrelevant. Does it sound better?
I am dead serious. Just look at the frequency response of a decent solid state amplifier with low output impedance: it will be flat within about 0.2 dB across the entire audible spectrum, and often even a bit beyond. Now compare that to some of the best speakers, like my Quad ESL 2805 and my Harbeth P3ESR desktop speaker. They are not flat at all, even if excellent by speaker standards. The explanation is very simple: speakers (like microphones - recordings matter very much as well, but are out of our control) operate at the interface between the electrical and the mechanical, and thus they have mass. Also, they operate in a room that has its own problems of reflections and room modes in particular. Just look at frequency response graphs in a real room compared to in an anechoic chamber or outside in the open air. You could easily have 10 db deviations from the ideal. Hence, when I added a subwoofer to my main system, I quickly decided to get a dsp room eq system as well (an Antimode 8033), which did clean up the sound significantly. But that can also be verified with measurements. As for inaudible gains: I did once participate in a blind test of (excellent and very reputable) amplifiers. I thought I could distinguish them, but I was wrong. I was no better than random. Some time ago I replaced an old Quad 303 amplifier with a more modern Q606-2. The new one did indeed sound better and more dynamic, but only at higher listening levels. What I was hearing was the beneficial effect of bigger power that was not compressing/clipping the dynamic peaks of symphonic music. Real music and classical music in particular often needs big power (those needs can be measured, and you would be surprised - I was too).
Touche, csontos. Valid point and well taken. Don’t think I will move in that direction but will instead play in a different sandbox. Thanks for the nudge :)
Can’t argue that the room is the weak point. Investment should be made here as one of the first steps for any serious audio system IMO.
Yet, we can only get the room so good. But that is not the topic of this thread. Much out there already about this.
The recording/mastering process remains the primary determinant of/limitation to sound quality. Study the stages of signal degradation (starting with the microphone) that our media suffers prior to even being presented for reproduction.
Is your point that we should just throw in the towel on component improvement since perfection will never be achieved re: room/speakers? Many current and past speakers are plenty good enough to hear differences in SQ of sources and amplification.
As for "inaudible gains", I feel sure we would all like to read of your real-life personal experiences that support this rather than only unsubstantiated opinion.
Speakers and their interaction with the room are by far the weakest link in any system. Just look at the distortion numbers and frequency response graphs. DAC’s or amplifiers are so much better that the differences between them (if audible at all) are completely overshadowed by the modest quality of even the best speakers. Even a ’modest’ Oppo is lightyears better than the best speakers, so spending more on probably inaudible gains is a waste of money if you can spend it only once.
I've been using my 105, because of annoying audio problems using the 205 with DirecTV that don't occur with the 105. Having learned about the firmware update, I reinstalled the 205 and updated it. The annoying problems appear to have been fixed in the update.
Perhaps, but at least one *new* annoying problem has been introduced.
Everything you say in your first paragraph is true re: that MW does not touch the digital section directly in their mod, excepting improving the AC quality fed to it, both by use of the Bybee rail and also freeing up the stock unit’s power supply from feeding the analog section and output stage (the massive MW external power supply does that).
Comparing the sound quality of my stock Sony 5400ES and my MW 5400ES and assuming that the SQ improvement between the stock 105 vs 205 is similar to redbook vs SACD, I honestly can’t imagine that the stock 205 would be close to the MW105 in SQ. Redbook on the MW is much better sounding than SACD on the stock unit. The stock and MW version are on far different levels of sound quality IME and the improvement is much more than a new-version DAC chip could ever produce IMO.
If using to feed a DAC through one of the digital outputs, there might be minimal difference in SQ between stock and the MW.
I've been using my 105, because of annoying audio problems using the 205 with DirecTV that don't occur with the 105. Having learned about the firmware update, I reinstalled the 205 and updated it. The annoying problems appear to have been fixed in the update.
"As for sound its not much better than my Modwright modified 105"
@azbrd,
Comparing stock UDP-205 with Modwright modified 105....Is that a fare comparison?
Given the fact that the UDP-205 has a more advanced digital section I believe it should have been a push at least. The Modwright 105 does not touch the digital section, although Bybee rail does touch the power going to the dacs. The ES9038PRO DACs should have bested the older versions in the 105.
The other major issue with the 205 has been covered in this thread, when used with any Sony screen the HDMI drops randomly IF a HDMI loop (205 -> TV + non-4k-sur-processor->TV) exists, I installed the 205 in the "exact" same configuration as the 105 which did not have this issue. Speaking to Oppo they pointed the finger at Sony claiming they leave all their HDMI ports active even if no signal is present.
I also found it "cheap" that Oppo took away features like Tidal and netfix in the 205 that existed in the 105. Never see a company pull features from a newer product.
From whatever feedback is provided in this thread and another one on the Oppo, I am coming to the conclusion that, while the Oppo is no giant killer, it's sound quality comes close to 80% of what a high end dedicated SACD player can do. Which is not bad, considering that when time comes, you can either sell this player and buy a dedicated player, OR use it as a transport with a superb DAC.
I can assure everyone I shall not post ad nauseam. Given the total number of posts in this thread already, the number I have posted pales in comparison.
My aim is true, and my sincere objective would hopefully be beneficial to everyone.
What I've posted to date merely describes the particularly egregious symptom of the problem. The truth is, when a company issues software or firmware that causes something that was operable to no longer function correctly, baring deliberate sabotage, the organization does not perform adequate testing. Because restoration is possible - but not allowed by contractual obligation/law - it is imperative that causing something that was operable to no longer function be avoided.
The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. Please let Oppo know.
just go to diyaudio.com. On the digital forum, there will be a thread on the first page regarding the upgrades for the 205. It will be on the last page or near it. What are the other upgrades you mentioned?
I bought the Oppo 205 primarily to watch 4K movies with the 7 channel analog outputs. It is fantastic for that purpose and even better with the power supply mod. Finally, with this mod I was able to put in a SR Black fuse. (The standard Oppo 205 design has the fuse soldered in). But, to ever replace that fuse the whole unit has to be taken apart again. So, if the fuse ever blows I will install an external fuse holder like I did with my Oppo 95.
If you are thinking that the Oppo competes with the best of Dacs it does sort of, but the difference is still quite noticeable.
The UDP-205 disappointed me, it does NOT support Tidal, it only streams from a NAS or attached disk.
At least in the case of not supporting Tidal, it is/was advertised as such. So no harm there because the buyer is aware before hand and can make an educated purchase (or educated choice not to purchase).
The problem I’ve discovered rises to a completely different level of egregiousness. I honestly wonder whether or not at least some of the specs are fraudulent. And while admittedly I’d be surprised if that were the case, I think it behooves Oppo to produce some kind of *third-party* scientific results (not the mere silly professional review bench tests) from a credible lab that can substantiate whether or not the unit actual outputs correct resolution, aspect ratio (which it currently does not in all cases) and audio synchronization among a myriad of other parameters.
If I as an end user was *easily* able to notice an issue in source direct mode, imagine the other problems not readily detectable by human eye/ear.
The UDP-205 disappointed me, it does NOT support Tidal, it only streams from a NAS or attached disk. In talking with support they confirmed that Tidal or any other streaming service will not be supported which tells me Oppo has their eye off the market.
As for sound its not much better than my Modwright modified 105 and its definitely not as good as the Schiit Yggdrasil
hopefully the few bugs in the 205 will be sorted out in future firmware updates.
I hope so too. However, the firmware "updates" thus far in my opinion are analogous to having a problem with your homes foundation and then hiring a contractor to remodel the upstairs bathroom. As to their latest bug, a black widow spider is also a bug, and that is lethal to humans.
Tonight I've removed the Modwright 205 and reinstalled the old Oppo 105. Now I knew the mods would widen the gap between the two but, holy crap! The modded 205 ridiculously out performs the old 105. There seems to be a major veil, like someone threw a wet blanket over the speakers.
hopefully the few bugs in the 205 will be sorted out in future firmware updates.
I don’t mean to be a party-pooper, and I’ll assume you read my last post. Granted, that pertains to video and not *necessarily* audio.
Nevertheless, the question (please allow some poetic license here) remains that if the Oppo UDP-205 can’t get it right when you tell it not to alter video and simply provide native/raw format, how could anyone expect it to do anything - audio or video - right when you ask it to *process* whatever it is you play back through it?
It is my view at this time that everything (audio and video) about the Oppo UDP-250 is "unfaithful". And we know what happens in that kind of marriage.
I ask everyone to add their voice/text to mine by calling and/or writing to Oppo, multiple times per week, until they can get *source direct* correct.
Perhaps I was a little too kind on the Oppo 205 mod with my comparison to my main system. A longer comparison reveals that my main system has solid images that sound 3d and are more enjoyable. The Oppo 205 in comparison has cut out versions of those images compared to my main system.
But, look at the price differences! For the price the Oppo 205 and the updated mod power supply should satisfy many.
Well here is my first review of the Oppo 205 with the power supply mod and with the 2 channel balanced outputs.
It is definitely an improvement over the stock power supply. First off there is much greater bass with better definition. Second the general dynamics are impressive. Third, the stereo separation is wide not much deeper though. And finally the general frequency response has been improved from the lowest lows to the upper frequencies.
So now I have compared this modified Oppo 205 to my main system; which consists of a Bryston BDP-2 ($3000) and PS Audio Direct Stream Dac ($6000) and a Mutec ($1000) for a total of $10,000 of equipment.
Results: The modified Oppo 205 competes in most areas except in soundstage depth and the space between instruments. If the original Oppo 205 was a 6 compared to my main system, the power supply mod brings it up to maybe a 7 or perhaps 8. It should be noted that along with the power supply mod I also installed a Synergistic black fuse and 2 of the Tweek Geeks Sonic Tonic bottles inside the Oppo 205.
Hmm. That's alarming. Have they alluded to any remedy?
Not yet. The gist of their (supervisor level) response is a high priority ticket has been issued and the next official firmware release is mid-October. In the interim, some beta testers on the AVS forum have already/also verified same. I have sent the following correspondence to Oppo, asking that their executive management team read it.
As of firmware 50-0913, the UDP-205 no longer always correctly, accurately and faithfully displays the proper aspect ratio while in source direct mode.
When the unit is essentially asked to do nothing (comparatively speaking) and can’t get that right, their (Oppo) presumed embarrassment should speak volumes and act as the catalyst for action.
In my opinion this issue should be of utmost priority to Oppo engineers and utmost concern to customers. Oppo engineers should do absolutely nothing - besides eating and sleeping - other than work to resolve this particular issue.
Alternatively, they could offer a full refund to those who would accept it.
Customers should be concerned because if source direct isn’t right, it certainly calls into question “what is”.
Once resolved, the company as a whole should then turn their attention to why this was never caught in the QA and beta process, and then implement a procedural and perhaps other change(s) to ensure this type of problem wouldn’t occur again.
Next, their engineers should turn their attention to creating the necessary conditions via hardware and/or firmware that allow a user to restore to a previous version of firmware. That could serve to mitigate these types of issues.
I ask everyone to add your voice/text to mine by calling and/or writing to Oppo, multiple times per week, until this is resolved.
Milpai, I was describing firstly the Acoustats' ability, and then the Oppo's effect on them. The Oppo makes it sound like I upgraded the amps. Reminds me of the Boothroyd Stuart Meridian 105 monos I got in 1978. Fast, punchy, great mid range, very musical/transparent. You knew you got a real gem.
The Oppo UDP-205 is also stellar, and not limited to Redbook.
In my current setup, anthem 225 and kef ls50's would I be better served getting the oppo 205, or a dedicated dac like something from schiit or naim?
I'm waiting on a Yggdrasil (for a while, and I'm beginning to wonder if Schiit ever ships) which I will feed from the Oppo UDP-205 (which I've had since it was first released). The UDP-205 is *absolutely essential* in any serious A/V system. If your question is meant to say that you are dismissing video altogether then don't get it and just get the Yggy. If you also need video, then my suggestion is buy both, the UDP-205 and whatever else.
My reference is a pair of Acoustat Monitor 3 with the direct drive servo charge OTLs. The transparency of these renders any source stark naked. Bottom octave is sharp, articulate, and weighty, no overhang or ringing revealing the true potential of the speakers themselves. For lack of a better term, bottom end has 'air'. Spectacular imo. This thing is top tier, no doubt about it.
Yesterday I watched the movie "The Resident Evil- Final Chapter" and wow there was some fantastic dynamic surround sounds.
Today for the first time I started listening to the Oppo 205 via 2 channel with the upgraded power supply. First impression; definitely a stronger bass presentation and a wide stereo separation. I only have about 20 hours of playing time with the mod so we shall see how it develops.
It's a significant and instant improvement. Transient performance is better overall but especially noticeable on the bottom end, better definition. Better low level resolution. It's quieter. The level of improvement is well worth the cost imo. Keep in mind even without this mod the 205 is remarkably better than the 95 which the 105 really did not improve upon much from what I've read. That's why I didn't bother upgrading to the 105. But this is a different animal. There's a relatively simple mod to the inboard dac being offered at DIY consisting of replacing some electrolytics to oscon and adding Wima coupling caps to block any dc getting in the signal path
A bigger transformer translates to bigger magnetic fields and more vibration and since the big transformer is bolted to the chassis, guess what? That’s right, worse sound! And magnetic fields are not (rpt not) exactly good for the sound, either. I'm not hot dogging you. I had the supremely modded Oppo 103 including the OPPOMOD linear power supply LPS that included, you guessed it, the honking big transformer and a whole slew of capacitors.
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