They are right, but are missing some manufacturers. Add Green Mountain Audio. Also Dunlavy, but they are sadly out of business. The audio perfecionist journal will tell you a lot about this topic. A lot that many manufacturers don't want you to hear. |
It sure would be nice. I wanted to add one last thing. Back a few years ago, B&W did do a recording that corrected time and phase and played it back over their speakers for a blind test to see if it mattered. When the results were tabulated, it was shown, that without fail, that the corrected version was detected almost 100% and was listed as the better recording. Makes you think. |
Bigtee, no argument, your points are well delivered and taken and agree with you from the premise that we must do no more harm than is already done. And that is particularly why I most often find myself playing vinyl from recordings that were kept in the AAA domain. I think it would be great if there were such a label that recorded, monitored and mixed with T&P accurate equipment just so that we would be able to hear once and for all, if keeping things strictly in this mode provides the resolution and accuracy we seek. |
Stevecham, not to start an argument but I think this misses the point. The idea of time and phase speakers is to allow a recording and its cues to be reproduced for better or for worse, in phase or out phase. Time aligned speakers as REPRODUCERS, in my opinion, are better at giving a more accurate presentation of the recording event no matter how it was recorded(which is not the issue.) If you use non time and phase speakers, then they are going to mess up a mess even more in reproduction of the original phase and time mess.
Maybe if recording studios paid more attention to these parameters, a lot of our CD complaints would go away. I think a lot of CD's inherent problems IS due to phase issues. One of the reasons people like analogue is there are NO phase problems with the reproduction of this source. The stylus stays in phase with the reproduction of the grooves.
CD players alter phase relationships and if the source is all out, then we compound the problem.
Just my opinion for what it's worth. Go back and search time and phase discussions. This has all been hashed out before. |
Great responses here and though I am a devoted Thiel fan and owner (CS6s), I also compose and record music in a home studio environment. I have asked Jim Thiel about this too: Hey folks, it matters not a rat's *ss if the production of the recording itself was MONITORED and MIXED on non-time coherent, non-phase coherent MONITORS. Just think, if the engineer is mixing and mastering so as to eliminate or reduce phase shift cancellations by ear, well if the speakers being used to actually do this don't have those features, then how the heck is the MUSIC ever gonna be time and phase correct IN THE RECORDING AND HENCE THE PLAYBACK up to the point of coming out of our speakers????
Jim/Shari/Kathy at Thiel couldn't even tell me studios they know that use phase and time coherent designs to PRODUCE music, so go figure.
My point here is that unless all music is recorded, monitored and mixed on phase and time coherent designs, then we will never benefit from what such designs can deliver.
It's just one of those situations in life that makes me think so much of our energy in listening and enjoyment just gets so bogged down in chit chat (even though it's fun once in a while!) |
I am suprised a magazine such as the Playboy knows let alone recomments brands like these that are not that well known outside the audiophile's circles .Imagine if they talked about BOSE being the best.Never take reviews seriously,I trust my ears .
George |
Somebody needs to tell Playboy that they're analog set up that they showed isn't likely to work too good without a *phono cartridge*. |
Just when Playboy is becoming more and more irrelevant and selling fewer copies, they start talking about real hi-fi. But even with their "deminished capacity" they sell a hell of alot more copies than S'phile and A' Sound combined. So maybe some day high end will become more mainstream? Don't hold your breath.
By the way I've heard quite a few Vandys and Thiels and they could not be at much more of two ends of an axis. |
Last week I read a review on the Meadowlark BH2's. The reviewer stated one day speakers won't be considered "audiophile" material unless they're time aligned and phase coherent. That may or may not be the case as only time can tell, but I've talked to (Roy Johnson- GMA) and read enough material on this subject to believe in the physics that support the theory.
I have two fundamental concerns with this theory.
1. Room environment - most people do not have a dedicated listening rooms that can take full advantage of this design. If I understand the principle correctly, this design is especially sensitive to room configurations and furniture arrangement. Place a coffee table, chair or couch near the pathway of its soundwave and time alignment goes out the window. From what I can tell - triangulation is the name of this game. In other words, the specific relationship between the positioning of ones ears to the placement/position of the drivers. By the same token, I think most speaker designs will be adversely affected by furniture and other room treatment peculiarities, so this is not unique.
2. Small sweet spot - Gallos and MBL's these are not.
And then again... I could be totally wrong, which won't be the first. |
Im happy Playboy is dipping into High-End audio products.
Most people dont know High-End Audio exits.
This is a great way to reach the male masses who are the best audio customers anyway.
Hey,sex sells!! UU
|
I read in stereophile that the size and shape of a woman's breasts don't matter, and that all women really look the same. Apparently we just imagine them to look different.
Seemed like a funny subject for stereophile, but, hey who am I to disagree ? |
they mentioned Rogue in the march issue. They used the Magnum 99 pre and M-150 monos |
Rogue Audio is to be in the next Playboy edition.
This came straight from Mark O'Brien.Very true.
I asked him if I can pose next to his products.
Air brushing can perform remarkable results!
I wonder how they will get rid of my gut though?
Look for Rogue in the next Playboy edition!! |
You actually read the article in a Playboy!!!
Now what's wrong with you????????? :-) |
Well I've heard in a upcoming Stereophile they where going to feature the three most sexiest woman in the world with full nude spreads,Tammy Fae,Queen Elisibeth and Roseanne Bar.weird Huh. :-) Was there any they left out? |
Go back through the archives and read "Time coherence - how important and what speakers?" I think this thread will pretty much answer any questions you have. |
Could someone please explane phase correct and its positive and negative attributes in a speaker design?
Thanks- |
They should also include Spica! |
Not really sure why Playboy is engendering so much animosity here.
Personally, I'm glad they are sticking their nose into speakers. Hopefully, they will reciprocate in kind and let me go noodling around in their business. I got more than a few ideas on having some of their buxom beauties respledent in all of their glory in front of me. |
Geez - a non-audiophile magazine not only talks about speaker brands other than Bose or Polk Audio, but actually refers to "audiophile" speaker brands, and all you guys can do is rag on them.
No wonder people think audiophiles are weird. |
We audiophiles are a special breed, we don't like the "naked" truth about speakers!!
Go figure |
Playboy should stick with what it knows best; big pairs of bass traps ;-)
Cheers,
Spencer |
The older Dahlquist speakers of the 70's were an early attempt at time alignment only. They are not and never were phase correct. Even Vandersteen's earliest Model 2's in the 70's were not time and phase correct. Vandersteen, a few years later, introduced phase and time correct speakers of a sort.
I truly believe that current manufacturers today use their argument against time and phase speakers because it would drastically raise the price of their product and hurt their bottom line. I also think it would be too expensive to R&D this design for market. Also, Vandersteen holds patents on his specially designed drivers. It takes years to refine designs. |
There are a few more manufacturers but these are the BIG players. All three have been around for a long time and have never wavered on their philosophies. I for one am in their camp. I too believe that these parameters are important and someday when better testing becomes available, it will be proven to be important since that appears to be a must in this world today---proof! Funny how people pick their truths.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and as the fellow stated above, everyone has one. Just look at any one requesting any speaker information and how many suggestions you get.
I do find it interesting that some of the main stream electronics folks use Vandersteen. Not because they think it is the best speaker on the planet but because it lets them hear what is actually there. Also, the engineers from some of these companies use the same speakers. A short list includes Audioquest, Steve McCormack, Ayre and Aesthetix to name a few off the top of my head.
There are a lot of proven inaccurate speakers out there that people use and that's fine. If they like them more power to them.
I always thought "High end" audio was interested in improving the art and some of this stuff is a giant step backwards(even on a test bench.) The term "High end" is overused just like "High efficiency" on a 10 Seer AC unit. It is all marketing BS and about the dollar.
I have been at this for 37 years and watched the "Hits" of the day come and go. There is only so much that can be done with designs and I genuinely think manufacturers screw it up so that can lay claim to a different sound. Honest improvements do not jump out of the woodwork every year! Most people will steer away from the accurate system because it isn't exciting. We ARE accustomed to certain inaccuracies that most find pleasing.
As for Playboy, yeh, they listed the 3 "Major" players but they need to stick to what they do best.
Also, for the fellow that mentioned JM Labs, why would they make one speaker correct in these parameters and no others?
I personally think we would all be better off if we get our heads out of magazines and educate ourselves. |
Agree with Jmcgrogan2 & Royy.
Big boy toys are discussed in these forums.
They forgot about *Dahlquist* |
Playboy is commenting on "the original sound"?! What the hell do they know about original!!! So much silicone graces their airbrush retouched photo shoots, they must think "original" comes from Dow-Corning & sprayed pigments! |
It makes sense to me. I want to match my front-end, pre-amp and amp with time and phase coherent speakers. Like they say: "you can't be part way pregnant." Likewise, I don't partially coherent musical reproduction. |
JM Lab Electra and Utopia lines can be added to the list as well. |
playboy isnt even good at taking nude photo's let alone talkin hifi.
mike. |
Add Dunlavy and Green Mountain. |
I believe that is the view of "The Audio Perfectionist":
http://www.audioperfectionist.com/
Given that a lot of what The Audio Perfectionist recommends seems to work for me, I wouldn't doubt this statement.
Perhaps other speaker manufactures may not consider time coherence necessary, desirable, or worth the trouble. |
Dunlavy, out of business also made speakers meeting this criteria, and Green Mountain Audio continues to make speakers with first order crossovers, and in their Continuum series also physical adjustment of the mid-range and tweeter with respect to the woofer to assure a time coherent wavefront at the particular listening positom for each room. |
I agree with Jmcgrogan2. Playboy should stick with taking nude photos. |
What do you think it is gonna do for business at those three companies? Lots of people with disposable incomes read playboy. |
i agree theo- just thought i would see what kind of response that article would bring out |
The only way a non-expert can attempt to gain validity is to make a statement sound valid. The world is full of unknowing experts. My old football coach used to say "Opinions are like a**hole*, everybody has one". Obviuosly the author of the Playboy article hasn't listened to too many speakers. |
Much overhyped, IMHO (I'm an ex Thiel owner as well as a user of Quad's). But if you think you can hear the difference, its important to you, and you like the sound that these speakers bring to your room, why not! |
It shows that Playboy should stick with taking photos. |
Playboy expertise lies in other subjects. |
Consider the source. Why should anyone give credibility to a statement like this in Playboy? |
