Similar Experience, daros71. I ran a pair of Confidence C2 Signatures for many years and in 2022 listened to the new Confidence 50's. Not the same sound signature at all. I bought new Sonus Faber speakers because their sound signature was more similar to the old Confidence C2's (old Dynaudio).
IMHO, Dynaudio is now overpriced when compared to rivals. Not an uncommon occurrence when a PE firm takes over. PE firms NEVER make a business better for consumers, only shareholders. That's a hard truth for many brand loyal customers to accept.
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Old thread but I agree to me the new line doesn't sound as good as the older versions. Doesn't mean the newer versions are bad by any means, just like anything else it's "Personal" preference. I have had C4 and many in the Contour line as well, and currently own the C2's Platinum version and got a pair of Confidence 20's, I thought they where the bomb, till I started comparing them to other speakers like Special 25's and Joseph Audio Graphine 2's, both which I thought to "my ears" much better sounding. I have also heard the Contour 60's and various other newer Contour and Confidence speakers, I find the Hexis (Plastic part) they put in their new Esotar, throws things off a tad too much for me. I wish they would at least stick with better finishes and I see they are limiting finishes now, my favorite was Grey Birch on SP40's and Mocca Finish, Grey Oak on the newer Contour was my favorite.
tmbenn: I am with you, I have gravitated more towards SF now, which I never thought I would, but I believe they have gone in a better direction and Dyn has gone more the mediocre taste for me.
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Yes, i sow even some disappointed reviews of that product line. The reviewer was stating that in order to fall in love with the new confidence line you have to give up to a sound stage which extends beyond the speakers position. ridiculous. Exactly the same problem with the C60. Imagine an orchestra compressed within 2.5-3 meters. That’s why i say the sound stage is messy. My old contours 3.3 instead do a wonderful yob in this regard and even their timbre is very natural. No wonder that people is now selling a 20 years old contour 3.3 at a similar price to a two years old contour 60. I really do not understand how people can defend such silly companies. |
Keep the Dynaudio’s made in Denmark! Ive listened to the new confidence line, disappointing!
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X J3brow
A few weeks ago i listended an ultra cheap sound system consisting in 1986 Bose 505, a 45w marantz amplifier, a consumer topping Dac...total value 700 Euro. It was sounding way more alive and natural as my Dynaudios’...unbelievable but true. My Dynaudios always sound like wooden boxes emitting sound, no way to get rid of that feeling, no for one single second. No magic, no air no space no materiality. A lot of people have heard my C60s and even reggae fans weren’t impressed...let’s not talk about someone who can tell a viola from a violin. If someone told me they sounded good I would be concerned. |
I know most of you can no longer stand Tekton...well yes...get ready. Soon I'll let you know how the Moabs compare to the Contour 60s.
I was forced to switch to Tekton because here in Italy no dealer will let you test the speakers at home. I'm very curious to see how it turns out. |
Auditioned several Dynaudio speakers, Martin Logan 40 & 60 (not the newer xt ones).
Absolutely loved each one. I ONLY went a different route because of price. Dynaudio and the Martin Logan speakers were amazing, I kick myself sometimes, BUT, every time I listen to the speakers I went with, everything of doubt and self but kicking disappears.
Done speaker shopping for quite a long time .........
unless, the Tektons go on sale, for which I will be watching.
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I’ll play.
My experience is polar opposite.
The Contour 60 amazes me with respect to how much it gives for the money in today’s market.
My C60s are quite literally the cheapest component in my system with over $100k in gear behind them. They are not perfect speakers by any stretch but they are capable of sounding beautiful, lifelike,with excellent tonality and well balanced top to bottom in my purpose built, sound treated media room.
The Esotar 2 tweeter hasn’t changed because of the sale of the company. Since the company was sold and with it access to deeper pockets, they built the Jupiter testing room.
Maybe it’s because I have taken road less traveled and over time have invested significantly more dollars in everything other than the speakers so in a sense my Contour 60s have had their potential maxed out, or maybe I haven’t even reached their ceiling yet as every change I make it’s clearly audible thru the C60s.
All I’m saying is the Contour 60 is great speaker within the context of a $10k pair of speakers can be, and even then can be found for discount from dealers, I paid significantly less BNIB.
Maybe I got lucky with a great pair, maybe production linearity isn’t as good as it should be but I will submit that the pair of C60s the original poster owned was in some way defective. They is simply no other explanation as I sit and listen to my pair. Thanks for sharing your experience but it is the aberration and not the rule. And I am aware original poster sent his C60s back to Dynaudio to be inspected/repaired, I still submit they remained defective.
Hell, maybe my pair is the aberration. I imagine your jaw would drop if you had the chance to sit in my room with these C60s.
Preceding the C60, I owned C30, Wilson Audio Sophia 3, Dyn Confidence C1, and Sonus faber Cremona Auditor.
On the side topic of build tolerances, I have often wondered to what degree, if any, hi end audio suffers from variability due to production. I have experienced subtle changes/tweeks affecting the sound both for the positive and negative, small and large sonic changes. If so, surely construction of preamps, amps, speakers etc with hundreds or thousands of parts can go awry and negatively affect the sound. Just a thought. |
That the contour line has been dumped by dealers for fire sale prices never helps resale value. I listened to the C60 at a shop and was also surprised at the clarity and resolution from a Dynaudio. After a few songs I started asking about them and finally after getting nowhere I asked the salesman why he seemed so reluctant to sell me these speakers. He replied, magico is coming out with a $10k model in a month or so and I don’t want you coming back here angry with me. I do appreciate his integrity tho. |
No, not joking...two years ago i bought a pair Dynaudio 3.3 for 1200
Euro. I sold them one year later for 1800 Euro. Then, end 2019, i bought a pair of
Contour 60 for 5400 Euro and 6 month later the best offer i get is 4000
euro. And yes, the 15 years old Contour 5.4 cost now as much as the one
year old Contour 60. If i would have bought them at the full 2019
reseller price i would have seen a 60% devaluation within one year. The joke is there but it is not mine.
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i suspect this thread is the online forum version of one in a semi drunken stupor talking to oneself in the mirror for a couple hours before passing out |
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Interestingly during the past 6 months, in the used market, the old Contour 5.4s are constantly rising in price and at the same time you can find now Contour 60's for less as the cheapest Contour 5.4. What could that mean? Is this behavior not confirming my suppositions?
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I had the opportunity to listen to the Dynaudio C5 driven by a Naim amplification. This sound is exactly what i’m looking for. Unfortunately there is no way to find the C5 in the used maket.
Anyone knows which could be a more recent speaker which sounds as open, natural and precise as the C5 and within a 4.000 euro budget? |
Hi rmiller01, unfortunately i cannot help you regarding your technical questions. But here i found an interesting comparison between the new line and the old line. Scroll down to the last 7 posts. There is even one user which says that the new Contours sound like a box...exactly the experience i have with the C60. Unfortunately at the time i bought the C60 this comments have not been posted yet. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/dynaudio-contour-30-vs-confidence-c2-comparisons |
daros, I liked your post. I listened to Dynaudio DM3/7 entry level towers like 5 years ago and fell in love with them at the dealer shop I. Scottsdale. I went in Looking to hear some entry level Focal towers and liked the highs better on the DM 3/7. Anyways they were not In my budget At the time and before I knew it they were sold and and discontinued for the Emit series. I noticed that the emit and a lot of the higher level Dynaudio were not describing the cast iron drivers anymore.... I was new to hifi but had bought into the idea of the sonic benefits of cast iron baskets for less moving parts to vibrate during play back... so I bought the old dm 3/7 for half price about 2.5 yrs ago used and love them. I run a Cambridge cxa80 amp which feeds them 125W per channel at 4ohm and have added a cheap $225 Klipsch 12 inch For some more bottom end.
Do you think I made the right move for staying with older that are cast baskets. Are all the Dynaudios of today without cast baskets? Are there any other products downgrades that you know of other than the cast baskets?
Thanks.
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To my eyes the 60’s actually look cheaper, but I’m sure the intend is the opposite in an attempt to cater to a modern market and interior design tradition. But again, I generally agree with your views on named trend.
Yes, to be honest I have your impression too ... but we know their intention was the opposite. I was just trying to make myself understood by those who believe that the C60s look very expensive. I guess they are the majority right? I mean ... in something they will have got it right in these boxes! Or not? As for the C3.3, yes, I'm looking for a pair in good condition. Or even a pair of Confidence 5. But it's not a good time. Two years ago it was full of them. Apparently whoever has them keeps them. I wonder why. |
@daros71 -- I Think that if a Steinway grand piano can be tuned in order to make happy 99% of pianists in the world, pianists which hare all deeply committed to the problem of sound, much more as we are, then it should be possible to make a speaker which is able to reproduce with a decent precision the wooden matericity of a xilophone, or the metallic matericity of a jazz cymbal and so on. In fact the contour 3.3 are perfectly able to do so. Not the Contour 60. It’s not a problem of personal taste. Subjectivity is used in the audiophile world in a very original way, like a cauldron where you trow everything which you are to lazy to rationalize. Jung against Freud i would say.
Imagine Simon Rattle telling to his trumpeter - hey guy, your trumpet is sounding like a plastic trumpet today, what’s up? - And the guy answering - that is your very subjective perception today! - .
No, there are rules, a trumpet has to sound like a trumpet, sorry. As soon as the timbrical and the spatial problems are solved then we can start to talk about subjectivity. But it will never be a subjectivity of an egocentric child. It has to be a very discrete subjectivity which is not distracting from what truly matters, from our love for the composers and the musicians and music in general.
+1 - I’m absolutely with you on this. To further: your views on the Contour 3.3 vs. their new iteration 60 are illuminating - bold, even, in a liberating way. I vividly recall the Contour 3.0 and 3.3 from my auditioning them back in the late ’90’s, and can honestly say they’re the Dynaudio’s (especially the 3.3’s) whose sound I’ve remembered and cherished the most; beautiful mids, tuneful bass, and highs that didn’t draw unnecessary attention to themselves. Tonality and staging A-OK. Just a lovely, quite "right" overall presentation. And the cabinetry - Danish woodworking at its best, and in a tradition of furniture that actually looks and feels like wood. One thing was clear. The Contour 3.3 sounded like an expensive speaker and the Contour 60 looks like an expensive speaker. But isn’t this the general trend in so many areas? Manufacturers more concerned with appearances than with substance? But how does a company like Dynaudio change its philosophy so drastically? Then I remembered that in Italy the same happened to all the companies that changed their old and experienced CEO into young and "fresh" people. In Italy this means trendy design, tons of marketing, reduced production costs, less quality and nothing else.
Then I searched for "Dynaudio CEO" on Google. Exactly that happened to Dynaudio in 2016! My speakers are from 2017.
Now everything is clear. To my eyes the 60’s actually look cheaper, but I’m sure the intend is the opposite in an attempt to cater to a modern market and interior design tradition. But again, I generally agree with your views on named trend. I haven’t listened to the Contour 60’s, but some replies above would seem tangential with the rather worn adage of "what’s new(er) is always better;" why is it heretical claiming on older product outdoes its newer sibling? That should tell one a thing or two about how the hifi-industry has succeeded in capturing its customers with their marketing efforts, at the expense of a bit of common sense. As has been suggested already: why not sell your Contour 60’s and re-acquire a pair 3.3’s, or something altogether different? Seems to me a waste of time to linger with the 60’s when you’d be happier with other speakers. Let it go - move on. |
I Think that if a Steinway grand piano can be tuned in order to make happy 99% of pianists in the world, pianists which hare all deeply committed to the problem of sound, much more as we are, then it should be possible to make a speaker which is able to reproduce with a decent precision the wooden matericity of a xilophone, or the metallic matericity of a jazz cymbal and so on. In fact the contour 3.3 are perfectly able to do so. Not the Contour 60. It's not a problem of personal taste. Subjectivity is used in the audiophile world in a very original way, like a cauldron where you trow everything which you are to lazy to rationalize. Jung against Freud i would say.
Imagine Simon Rattle telling to his trumpeter - hey guy, your trumpet is sounding like a plastic trumpet today, what's up? - And the guy answering - that is your very subjective perception today! - .
No, there are rules, a trumpet has to sound like a trumpet, sorry. As soon as the timbrical and the spatial problems are solved then we can start to talk about subjectivity. But it will never be a subjectivity of an egocentric child. It has to be a very discrete subjectivity which is not distracting from what truly matters, from our love for the composers and the musicians and music in general. |
Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the c60 , i bought my pair almost a year ago but i had the chance to listen first.. listen to alot of different speakers in that price range and the contour 60 was a winner for the kind of music i listen to . The rest of the gear is arc ls25 , matrix x sabre pro mqa , cocktail audio x50d , emotiva power amp xpa dr2 , very modified 1200mk2 with clear audio mc cartridge, musical fidelity phonostage . Connected with cardas , Shunyata, and Neotech.
What i found out on the journey was that these speakers are quite sensitive to placing, cables, and power amp grip and control, not to talk about what feets you're using .
The mid and tweeter took som 500+ hours before they started to shine at medium low volume, the first couple of 100 hours they needed quite alot of power to breathe..
In the end I hope everyone finds what makes them happy and there is some billion ears in the world and all with different preference so keep on hunting and you will find ( maybe) |
I have a bunch of NIB Dynaudio drivers from 1986-1991, back when they sold individual drivers, and I still had my business. 22 pairs of various tweeters, 32 mids, 24 various woofers. Very fine drivers. Time to start designing and building. I’ve been working on rebuilding my workshop for 8 years now.
Old vs new Dynaudio? Older is better than some, much, of the overpriced stuff they build only for in-house use now! |
Incredibly insightful mapman! And maybe you are exactly right my friend😊...great great call! |
Sounds like excite and evoke may actually be meaningful names for each line. Shooting to appeal to a broader range of ears perhaps? |
Hello All,
First time speaking with all you cool cats here...Read a few posts but felt inclined to join in on this one as I have just had an extremely similar experience with Dynaudio. 20 years ago when I began my journey into this crazy hobby I went through and auditioned so many speakers...Until I found Dynaudio Audience 82. Done, game over, mission accomplished my ears knew immediately this was the sound for me. To this day I have never heard anything even close. After my divorce and move I had to sell all my gear. For the last 15 years I had been out of the game. Until a few years ago when I bought a house and decided it was time. Wow how things have changed. At least I knew right where to start - Dynaudio. Back then I had Audience 82's, 122C, and 52's in the rear being driven by Rotel RMB1095. Here I am (much different room setup) and I went right for Excite 38's, X28, X14's (was told and figured this was the updated equal to Audience). Had a chance to grab a used Simaudio Titan HT200 5 channel amp (which way back then I always wanted but could not afford). Needless to say my expectations were even higher with the Titan now driving the Danes...However something was missing. I actually found the Danes to be much brighter than I remembered. And that sweet warm sound that Dynaudio used to be known for and that my ears remembered had changed. Yes, the detail was still there but the Excites just didn't "disappear" like the Audience did. Nor were they as warm. But was it the speakers that have changed? I mean I am 20 years older in a completely different room with a different amp (albeit a more higher end one)...Anyway and regardless I ended up selling my Excites and have moved to Evoke (50's, 25C, 10's)...I will say the Evokes have brought back that warmth and in some cases added much more "snap" and definitely more bass than the Audience. I don't know maybe it's me, maybe it was my room, or just maybe Excite was not the speaker for me and Evoke is? Regardless I am much happier with the Evokes... |
Hi Daros,
I think the old Confidence C4 and the 30 years special version Sapphire could be an reasonable choice. The original C4, signature version, and platinum version are almost the same.
The old Dynaudio Accoustics monitors, such as M3/M4, are also good but not good-looking..
Andy Munro has his own company Munro Accoustics now, but generally only sells the monitors to professional studios.
Cheers.
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Hi Gosta, bass creates problems in the C60 but for me this is not the biggest problem. I tried different equalizations, I added the foams in the bas reflex which strongly reduces the bass. But even doing so, the highs and mids are not realistic. Unfortunately I am not able to clearly describe the problem from a technical point of view. The only thing I can say is that with the C3.3 the materiality of the instruments was immediately evident. Not with the Contour 60. The materiality of the instruments is not clearly intelligible with the Contour 60. About the sound stage i do not even want to talk. |
Hi pjr801, my post was long and boring precisely because I have described many of the attempts I have made. I changed all the components, tested components for 30K, and even installed the speakers in another space in another house! Useless!
I should probably change my mind. Audiophile Frankenstein! The audiophile who changed everything, even his mind, but not the speakers! Just kidding, sorry.
But interestingly, other people have had exactly the same feeling I had when comparing the new Dynaudio line to the pre-2007 line.
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Dynaudio makes great speakers. This could be a combination of the above. There are no guarantees that changing one piece of the puzzle won’t upset the perilous balance you had before. The key is to find a new balance point which can involve new components, rearranging the placement of especially speakers and perhaps cabling alternatives. The important thought is that with each step you take back, eventually, this may take you 2 steps forward." The road to Utopia is fraught with sorrow." |
The bass is the problem. Might be that the 60´s bass is killing the music for you. When you control the bass everything sounds so much better.
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I heard the Contour 60's and while they were competent speakers, there was nothing outstanding to their sound. In other words, they didn't do anything that other speakers can do, a few of them at a few thousand dollars less. Their mistake to my mind was chasing after the "modern" sound that so many manufacturers now aspire to. |
I went thru it with an old pair of speakers that did some things (probably because they were colored) that the other 4x$$$ speakers didn't. I resold all the other speakers and found another pair just like the ones I sold. They still make that magic, but the others did a lot of different things better. As to speakers sounding like actual instruments in space...The older speakers were more polite overall. |
We often find old classic pieces still cut it today.
And there isn't much new in audio design that really moves the game on. Many audio pieces contain a lot more irrelevant glitz, gimmicks and bling than a few decades ago. Notably turntables. |
I'd be curious to measure them. It would not be the first pair of speakers with errors in the crossovers.
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Fun and funny read. Old Dynaudio is a thick and warm sound to my ears. I've had many Dynaudio speakers and I really like their house sound. Seem like they have gone for a more transparent top end and lost some of the warmth. It's such a fine line. Why don't you just get the 3.3s back and get rid of the new ones if you hate them so much? Or try something different completely. Live a little.
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I have to agree with you that the new Dynaudio Contour/Confidence speakers are quite mediocre. I listened Contour 60 and old Confidence C2 Platinum at the local dealer in late 2018, with a feeling that the C2 was more natural, detailed, and balanced than the Contour 60. But the old Confidence series was discontinued then which made it difficult to find some C4 in black finish. (My wife can't accept walnut or rosewood finish...) So I didn't make the purchase and waited for the new series. Then in 2019, after almost one year's waiting, we listened the new arrived Confidence 30... Really dissappointed. The new C30 sounded more "modern", somehow more transparent overall, but lost the textures and never appealing to my taste. At first we thought it might be the problem of lacking running-in or inappropriate amps, but several months later we listened C20 and C30 at another dealer's place with better amps, the result was still the same. Anyway, I gave up the new Dynaudio and bought a pair of secondhand Evidence Temptation in the end.
As for the reason of the change (or retrogress) of sound, it might has some relativity with the acquisition by Goertek. Although they claim that the Dynaudio HiFi department is still operating independently, the influence by capital is somehow inevitable IMO. Also, the famous designer of Dynaudio's old series, Andy Munro, left the company quite long ago. It makes sense that new designers have different preferences of sound. |
Glad to report my broken ears are very happy with what I am told are tonally incorrect B&W 804 D3s. In what way are they tonally wrong? |
I think it may be a conspiracy, but I’m not at liberty to discuss it. Go silent. It’s your only hope.
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Wow, OP, too bad your sonic nostalgia keeps you from enjoying your Contour 60s. Glad to report my broken ears are very happy with what I am told are tonally incorrect B&W 804 D3s. Sometimes ignorance is indeed bliss!
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He's been beating this same dead horse on multiple forums for well over a year. |
You must be something else on the yaio! |
I don't know the 60s, but my desktop setup is a pair of LYD48s (studio monitors), and I've been extremely happy with their sound, so Dynaudio still seems perfectly capable of making good speakers. Maybe if I heard your 3.3s I'd feel different, but I kinda doubt it.
Regardless, if the speakers you really want are the speakers you already have, hey, more money to spend elsewhere! |
Sounds a little like analysis paralysis. (I am guilty of it all the time btw). I bet if you hooked up the 3.3s now, after adjusting to the 60s, they won't sound as good as what you remembered. Sometimes what we hear or what we think we hear is psychosomatic. Maybe you got a bad set of 60s? My new 60is are amazing. Listen to what you like. Enjoyment shouldn't be such a struggle. Peace. |
Pass the bottle when you're done....
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happy for you
but now, do you have eye drops for me? |
